From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 17:36:10 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:36:10 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Save money and support your community - take the Community Conservation Pledge! Message-ID: <005801c984ce$42019860$c604c920$@net> Robynne, thanks for an excellent suggestion. From: W. Robynne McWayne [mailto:wrmcwayne at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: Save money and support your community - take the Community Conservation Pledge! In these economic times we have a great deal that we can do to keep our own communities healthy and thriving! Let's start NOW! The Community Conservation Pledge is to become aware of the "money trail", whereby almost all the money that is spent at a national store, business, or restaurant is sent out of the community and is re- spent elsewhere. Community Conservation requires a Pledge to change your spending habits, buy or barter with your neighbors and locally owned and operated stores and restaurants, who themselves pledge to buy and barter locally. The purpose is to: Keep your money liquid in YOUR community: - Buy only at garage sales, and CraigsList.org - If you can't find what you need, shop only locally owned stores and restaurants WHO THEMSELVES BUY LOCALLY! Ask which dishes have ONLY locally grown ingredients. - Buy at farmer's markets, and buy organic, always checking where items are made or grown. - Organize your neighborhood, plant and tend vegetable gardens wherever there is space. Raise chickens where allowed. - Preserve or barter or give away extra produce - Hire and work for barter via CraigsList.org - Walk, bicycle, take the biodiesel bus, buy Arco (no middle eastern petro products) when absolutely necessary. - Support your friends and family, take people into your home! Almost every dollar SPENT at a national store leaves your town, fills corporate pockets, and at best is re- spent elsewhere. Conversely, working FOR a national store or company brings money INTO your community, do it if you can, the benefits come, of course, when it is then carefully spent locally. (Copy, edit, and paste this into an email and/or maybe your "signature"! and maybe print it out and tack it to your mirror!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 18:03:45 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:03:45 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] 'Too big To fail': A bailout hoax Message-ID: <006401c984d2$1bde1e70$539a5b50$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:40 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] 'Too big To fail': A bailout hoax (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) 'Too big To fail': A bailout hoax Sunday, 01 February 2009 02:04 http://www.daily.pk/world/americas/9351-too-big-to-fail-a-bailout-hoax.html How schemes to rescue Wall Street gamblers are prolonging this recession Auction-off Insolvent Banks' Assets, Not Owner-Occupied Homes Using the "too big to fail" scare tactic, the U.S. government has kept a number of terminally ill Wall Street gamblers on an expensive life-support system that is estimated to cost taxpayers $8.5 trillion [1]. In light of the fact that (according to IRS Data Book) there were 138 million taxpayers in 2007, this figure represents a burden of $61,594.20 per tax payer. Or, to put it differently, it represents a burden of $28,333.33 per man, woman and child for the entire US population. This massive giveaway of public money has been devoted to a wide range of fraudulent programs, including asset purchases of insolvent institutions, loans and loan guarantees, equity purchases in troubled financial companies, tax breaks for banks, assistance to a relatively small number of struggling homeowners, and a currency stabilization fund. The rationale behind this unprecedented taxpayer rip-off is that the current economic crisis is largely due to the ongoing credit crunch in financial markets; and that government injection of money into financial institutions will help unfreeze the credit market by absorbing toxic assets off their balance sheets. Despite the massive infusion of public money into the coffers of Wall Street giants, however, the banking industry has shown no interest in lending. Government's showering mega banks with taxpayers' money is thus very much like throwing people's money into a black hole without any questions asked as to where it all ended up, or how it was spent. Not surprisingly, the credit crunch continues unabated and economic conditions deteriorate out of control. The question is why? If "illiquidity is the core economic problem," as policy makers argue, why is then the government's injection of enormous amounts of liquidity failing to unfreeze the credit market? The answer is that government policy makers, Wall Street financial gamblers, and the mainstream media are misrepresenting the ongoing financial difficulties as a problem of illiquidity or lack of cash. In reality, however, it is not a problem of illiquidity or lack of cash, but of insolvency or lack of trust and, therefore, of hoarding cash. The current credit crunch is a symptom, not a cause, of the paralyzed, unreliable financial markets. John Maynard Keynes, the well-known British economist, attributed this type of credit crunch to what he called "liquidity trap," not lack of liquidity, implying that under market conditions of widespread insolvency and distrust lending comes to a standstill not because money is scarce but because it is hoarded, or "trapped," as a safe instrument of preserving assets. The theory of "liquidity trap" has been corroborated by empirical evidence from the Great Depression of the 1930s, as well as from the recent financial difficulties in Japan-known as "Japan's lost decade." It is also evidenced in the current credit crunch in global markets. There is strong evidence that major money-center banks (such as Citigroup and Bank of America) that have received huge sums of the bailout money are technically bankrupt, but they are not declared as such out of a fear that it may cause turbulence in global financial markets. "Here is the ugly, unofficial truth that neither Wall Street nor the government will acknowledge: the pinnacle of the U.S. financial system is broke-with perhaps $2 trillion in rotten financial assets on the books. Nobody knows, exactly. The bankers won't say, and regulators won't ask, or at least don't dare tell the public" [2]. By virtue of years of Wall Street's expanding bubble, which came to a burst in the late 2007 and early 2008, these banks managed to accumulate huge sums of fictitious capital on their balance sheets. However, since there is no transparency and the extent of toxic assets thus accumulated is not disclosed, nobody really knows the amount of the worthless assets that are hidden in the books of major Wall Street banks and brokerage houses [3]. One thing is certain, however: the amount of these toxic assets is in terms of trillions or (as some experts point out) tens of trillions of dollars [4]. There is simply not enough money-in the United States or in the entire world-to bailout these toxic assets. Although not many people know of this fraudulently kept secret, the banks of course know it. And that's why inter-bank lending has come to a standstill, as the banks do not trust each other or, for that matter, businesses and consumers. This explains what happened to hundreds of billions of bailout dollars that government bestowed upon Wall Street mega banks: they simply grabbed the loot and stashed it into their coffers, without dispensing a single penny of it as credit to businesses or consumers. It also explains the continued freeze of credit markets and the ongoing financial or market stalemate: neither the giant financial institutions (in collusion with government policy makers) are willing to accept the consequences of their gambling policies and submit to their deserved fate of bankruptcy; nor is there enough money to bailout all of their toxic assets. Either of these two options could remove the massive toxic assets from financial markets and restore confidence in lending. But since the former alternative is not acceptable to the powerful financial interests and the latter option is not feasible due to insufficient money to buy a ton of worthless assets, the oppressive debt overhang continues to keep credit markets frozen and the economy paralyzed-hence, the persistent stalemate and prolonged crisis. In a subtle but real sense, this stalemate is a reflection of two opposing forces: on the one side stand the competitive forces of market mechanism that require exposure, transparency and the cleansing of the balance sheets of the insolvent mega banks. On the other side stand the monopolistic power of these financial giants, supported by government policy makers, that is preventing the forces of competition from determining the value of their toxic assets. The apparent rationale behind the refusal to acknowledge the bankruptcy of Wall Street mega banks is that they are "too big to fail," implying that admission of their failure may cause major turbulence in global financial markets. A closer examination of this claim reveals, however, that it is more of a scare tactic designed to protect the powerful interests vested in these financial giants than a genuine rationale to protect national interests. While it is true that exposing Wall Street mega banks for what they are-bankrupt-may cause a severe short-term jolt to global financial markets, such a short-term turbulence would be a necessary price to pay for a "clean break" from the current financial stalemate and a long, protracted economic malaise. It would also serve as an effective way to prevent massive redistribution of resources from taxpayers to Wall Street gamblers. In the history of socio-economic developments such cataclysmic but inescapable shocks are variously called "regenerative or creative destruction," "shock therapy," or "birth pangs" of a new dawn and a fresh start. The alternative to a painful but swift cleansing of the mega banks' toxic assets is to keep these technically bankrupt banks on a financial life-support system that, like parasites, would suck taxpayers' metaphorical blood, drain national resources, and eventually corrupt or devalue the dollar. What's more, there is no timeframe as to how long these mega banks should or would be kept on the costly crutches provided by the taxpayers, which means the financial stalemate and economic paralysis can go on for a long time. Two historical precedents can be instructive here. In the face of the Great Depression of the 1930s, the Hoover administration, using the "too big to fail" scare tactic currently used to bail out the insolvent Wall Street Gamblers, created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation that showered the influential bankers with public money in an effort to save them from bankruptcy. All it did, however, was to postpone the inevitable fate of the banking industry: almost all of the banks failed after nearly three years of extremely costly bailouts policies. In a similar fashion, when in the mid- to late-1990s major banks in Japan faced huge losses following the bursting of the real estate and/or lending bubble in that country, the Japanese government embarked on a costly rescue plan of the troubled banks in the hope of "creating liquidity" and "revitalizing credit markets." The results of the bailout plan have been disastrous. Although the amount of sour assets has never been disclosed, it is obvious (in retrospect) that such worthless assets must have been colossal. For despite a number of huge bailout giveaways, no noticeable improvement in the ailing conditions of Japan's troubled banks is visible. Not surprisingly, more than a decade after the debt overhang of Japan's troubled banks first came to surface in 1997-98, most of the affected banks continue to be vulnerable, the nation's credit market still suffers from a lack of trust, and the broader economic activity remains anemic. So, the undisclosed, tightly-kept-secret tons of toxic assets simply cannot be bailed out. Not only will efforts to do so fail, they are also bound to make things worse by draining public finance, redistributing national resources in favor of incompetent and irresponsible financial institutions, accumulating national debt, weakening national currency, and prolonging economic crisis. Only by burying the oppressive deadweight of mountains of fictitious assets and cleansing the market off their toxic effects can trust be restored in credit markets. This requires opening the books of the troubled financial institutions and letting them go belly up if they are technically bankrupt. As William Greider of The Nation magazine puts it, "Facing facts will be painful, but it's better than continuing a costly charade" [5]. The current policy of keeping the toxic assets of insolvent financial institutions on costly crutches is nothing short of price fixing. The logical way to realistically evaluate the price of these assets is, therefore, to do away with the current policy of price fixing and let market forces determine the price. As Mike Whitney points out, "The appropriate way to establish a price for complex securities in a frozen market is to create a central clearinghouse where they can be auctioned off to highest bidder. That establishes a baseline price, which is crucial for stimulating future sales. . . . Bernanke [the head of the Federal Reserve Bank] would be better off letting the market decide what these debt-instruments are really worth. There are always buyers if the price is right" [6]. While pulling the plug on the insolvent banks and letting them go belly up may cause short term convulsions in financial markets, it will have several advantages that would far outweigh such temporary pains. To begin with, this would shorten the wrenching economic crisis and usher in a clean start. Second, it would avoid rewarding mismanagement, inefficiency and irresponsibility. As Jim Rogers, founder of the Quantum Fund, points out: "What is outrageous economically and is outrageous morally is that normally in times like this, people who are competent and who saw it coming and who kept their powder dry go and take over the assets from the incompetent. . . . What's happening this time is that the government is taking the assets from the competent people and giving them to the incompetent people and saying, now you can compete with the competent people. It is horrible economics. "Governments are making mistakes. They're saying to all the banks, you don't have to tell us your situation. You can continue to use your balance sheet that is phony.. All these guys are bankrupt, they're still worrying about their bonuses, they're still trying to pay their dividends, and the whole system is weakened [7]. Many smaller but financially sound regional and community banks could greatly benefit from the opportunity to buy out the realistic, market-based or devalued assets of the insolvent mega banks. Not only will this benefit the healthier financial institutions, it will also lighten taxpayers' bailout burden. Third, in light of the fact that the bailout giveaway dollars represent a subtle redistribution of national resources from taxpayers to Wall Street gamblers, declaring these gamblers bankrupt would protect taxpayers from having to shoulder the costly bailout burdens, thereby helping to protect the nation from further plunging into debt. There is absolutely no reason why taxpayers should bailout giant banks, insurance companies, investment banks, and hedge funds. Indeed, for all the money that the government is (or would be) paying for the insolvent banks' toxic assets, taxpayers could actually own those banks if they are let to be priced according to realistic market values, which are bound to be only a small fraction of their inflated book values. For example, in exchange for the $20 billion bailout money that the Citigroup received on November 23rd, 2008, the government/taxpayers could technically take the possession of the bank since its net market worth at the time was estimated to be only equal to $20.5 billion-down from $255 billion in mid 2007 [8]. But Citigroup has received much more than $20 billion of taxpayers' money. The $20 billion injection was in addition to the $25 billion the company had received the month before (October 2008) under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). More importantly, at the same time that Citigroup received the $20 billion injection, it also "received $306 billion of US government guarantees for troubled mortgages and toxic assets to stabilize the bank after its stock fell 60 percent last week" [9]. Obviously, this means that, while Citigroup's ownership remains legally in the existing private hands, taxpayers have, in fact, paid for the company's net market value of $20.5 billion 17 times over with the $351 billion paid (or committed to pay) to date (351 = 20 + 25 + 306). With varying degrees, what is true in the case of Citigroup is also true in the case of a number of other mega banks. For example, Bank of America has received $45 billion cash and $118 billion worth of guarantees against bad assets. Yet, its market value as of January 20th, 2009, was estimated to be only $33 billion-down from $228 billion in mid-2007 [10] This means that, like the case of Citigroup, taxpayers have purchased (paid for) Bank of America many times over. That the ownership of these banks remains, nonetheless, in the existing private hands is indicative of the fact that government policy makers are more committed to the interests of Wall Street gamblers than those of taxpayers. In the absence of corrupt, incestuous Wall Street-government relationship (including the new, Obama administration), nationalization of insolvent financial institutions is not as complicated or difficult as it sounds. It is certainly easier than public ownership and management of manufacturing enterprises that require much more than record keeping and following regulatory or legal guidelines. "Nationalizing the banks sounds more radical than it is, since banking law already empowers regulators to impose extraordinary controls and close supervision over troubled institutions" [11]. The idea of nationalizing banks under conditions of a financial meltdown is not necessarily socialistic or ideological. It has, indeed, been occasionally used to deliver capitalism from its own systemic sins. Thus, in the face of the Great Depression of the 1930s, and following the Hoover administration's failed policy of trying to bailout the insolvent banks, the FDR administration was compelled to declare a "bank holiday" in 1933, pull the plug on the terminally-ill banks and (temporarily) take control of the entire financial system. Likewise, in the face of the collapse of its banking system in early 1992, the Swedish state assumed ownership and control of all the insolvent banks in an effort to revive its financial system and prevent it from bringing down its entire economy. While this wiped out the existing shareholders, it turned out to be a good deal for taxpayers: not only did it avoid costly redistributive bailouts in favor of the insolvent banks, it also brought taxpayers some benefits once banks returned to profitability. Both in Sweden and the United States once profitibility was returned to insolvent banks (following policies of nationalization), their ownership was once again returned to private hands! It is perhaps this kind of government commitment to powerful financial-corporate interests that has prompted a number of critics to argue that one definition of capitalism is that it is a system of socializing losses and privatizing profits [12]. This is, indeed, a classical political economy argument, maintaining that "in the advanced capitalist societies, what actually happens is that state policies assure that more resources flow to the rich than to the poor. . . . The term corporate welfare is widely used to describe the bestowal of favorable treatment to particular corporations by the government. One of the most commonly raised forms of criticism are statements that the capitalist political economy toward large corporations allows them to 'privatize profits and socialize losses'," [13]. Few governments in the world have been so utterly under the influence of corporate-financial interests as in the United States. According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), two-thirds of corporations in America paid no federal income taxes at all between 1998 and 2005. This includes a fourth of all large US companies (those with assets worth of $250 million or more). An earlier GAO report showed that 61 per cent of US corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1996 and 2000-a period of high growth and huge corporate profits [14]. After reviewing these and similar statistics, which indicate a steady redistribution of national resources from the bottom up since the early 1980s, P. Sainath, author of Everybody Loves a Good Drought, wrote: "There's 'corporate governance' for you-they simply run the country. Administrations exist. Corporations govern" [15]. There are strong indications that Barack Obama's administration is no exception to this pattern-all the promises of change and elevated hopes notwithstanding. Of course, this is not to deny the truly historic importance of his election, an event or victory that should be celebrated as such. Nor is it meant to deny or downplay the importance of a number of reforms he was elected to bring about. These would include improvements in largely non-economic (or non-class) issues and areas such as civil liberties, the environment, regulatory issues, race relations, diplomatic protocols, and so on-areas that would rehabilitate some of the excesses and damages done by George W. Bush without burdening powerful financial-corporate interests. Obama's changes, however, would not include some of the more fundamental economic or class issues such as reversing or stopping the costly bailout giveaways to Wall Street gamblers and nationalizing the insolvent banks, downsizing the military establishment and reallocating part of the military to non-military public spending, implementing an affordable universal healthcare program, reversing the excessive neoliberal tax cuts for the wealthy, and the like. Obama's commitment to powerful business interests is best reflected in his unwavering support for giant Wall Street gamblers. Instead of calling for dismissal and accountability of the economic team of advisors that played a catalyst role in bringing about this systemic financial meltdown, he has placed them in decision-making positions, ensuring the continuance of the failed Bush policies of looting taxpayers and giving it to Wall Street financial titans. The longer his administration (in concert with the labial congress) continues on this doomed path, the longer the crisis, the more indebted the nation, and the more oppressive the economic hardship will get. There is some speculation that the Obama administration might be compelled to nationalize the insolvent banks. Considering the financial-economic team of neoliberal advisors who would be in charge of carrying out the rumored nationalization, this measure would be committed largely to the powerful Wall Street interests. If implemented, the measure would be tantamount to the proverbial palace coup designed to salvage the rule of the royal family, that is, of the financial Kleptocracy. There is no indication that, in the process of the rumored bank nationalization, there would be a seat around the decision-making table for taxpayer representation, or any room for public oversight and control of the nationalization policies and procedures. Instead, as pointed out by Jerry White, "taxpayers would assume responsibility for the worthless assets held by the banking giants so they could take these liabilities off their books and once again become profitable. After a temporary period of government direction, the banks would be turned over once again to private investors, who would buy the now lucrative shares for pennies on the dollar" [16]. While representing an improvement over the currently-confused bailout/rescue plans, this kind of (Wall Street-Sponsored) bank nationalization would not be able to wipe out all of the worthless assets of the insolvent banks and bring about an effective economic recovery, as it would not break free from the fraudulent influence of powerful financial interests. Only a swift and unadulterated nationalization that does not pay taxpayers' cash for gamblers' trash would be able to cleanse the badly tainted financial markets of the gamblers toxic assets, shorten economic pains and cut taxpayers' losses. By bringing the insolvent banks under public control (independent of the Treasury or the Fed that have abundantly proven to be representing the interests of Wall Street giants, not the people), this measure can then lead to the issuance of loans at reasonable rates by the thus nationalized banks, thereby unfreezing credit markets and rekindling investment and economic activity. Furthermore, by allowing insolvent homeowners to pay affordable mortgage installments based on reduced or realistic home prices, this alternative would help citizens facing the specter of homelessness stay in their homes, thereby also gradually restoring trust in the mortgage market. This type of nationalization of insolvent banks would, of course, require new politics on the part of the people who are suffering the most from the daunting economic hardship but do not seem to have a voice or representation in the fraudulent process of the bailout scam, which means the overwhelming majority of the American people. The new politics has to go beyond the traditional channels of demanding change. It needs to draw upon the lessons of the protest movements of the 1930s that squeezed all kinds of economic guarantees and social safety net programs (known as the New Deal reforms) out of the Congress and the FDR administration. The financial-corporate governments rarely, if at all, carry out grassroots-targeted reforms voluntarily. Only people pressure, pressure that would include a sustained and widespread protest movement, that is, pressure that would threaten the status quo, can bring about reforms that would benefit the grassroots. From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 18:59:03 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:59:03 -0800 Subject: [GJM] Garden at the White House Message-ID: <006e01c984d9$d5f73f10$81e5bd30$@net> There is going to be a five-acre garden at the White House. We All need to get in on this act. Here on the ranch we are enlarging the space. And I'm so much enjoying the food we grew last summer, especially the frozen tomatoes . Had never thought of this before, but, Margaret, my gardening partner told me to just take the Romano tomatoes we had grown and put them whole into plastic bags and freeze them. Then when needed just drop them into a pot of whatever it is you're making, spaghetti sauce, soup, whatever. If you want them peeled, just hold under got running water and the skins peel right off. Happy gardening. http://whitehousefarmer.com/ http://www.eattheview.org/ FutureDawning.org Mary Rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com Always have my latest info Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 19:15:06 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 18:15:06 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: The Conscious Life Expo Message-ID: <008901c984dc$13df4280$3b9dc780$@net> THE CONSCIOUS LIFE EXPO DON?T MISS IT. . www.consciouslifeexpo.com February 13 - 16, 2009 LAX Hilton * Home * Attend * Hotel * Exhibit * Intention * Volunteer * Contact Attend The Expo Daily Schedules Workshops Keynote Speakers Free Lectures Panel Discussions Post Conference Programa Latino Special Events David Icke Zecharia Sitchin Marianne Williamson Dinner With George Film Festival David Carradine Band Conscious Business Aura Mixer & Flirt Party Valentine Events Reincarnation Concert Free Workshop Master Zhi Gang Sha Exhibitor List Friends of the Expo IONS One Minute Shift 2007 & 2008 Workshop DVD's Contact Us The Business Muse David Carradine Master Sha KTLK Robin Falcov EarthStar Sentinal's Voice Jack Allis Awareness Magazine Creation Lightship Welcome to the Expo Welcome to the 2009 Conscious Life Expo. We are delighted and honored to present an awesome lineup of world-class speakers and leaders for this year's Expo. From Sacred Mysteries to the Soul of America to New Frequencies in Healing, what all these amazing workshops have in common is an alternative world view that is progressive, even radical and at the same time compassionate and inspiring. We love it. The Exhibit Hall is filled with 160 vendors selected for their cutting edge products and services. The Free Lectures run continuously in 4 rooms for 3 days. The Post Conference events on Monday (President's Day) follow up on the weekend's Seminars and Workshops. There are two major Musical Productions, a Film Festival, a Singles Mixer, two Business Symposiums and a Valentine's Day Workshop series. Get your tickets early as many of the events will sell out. Welcome to the party! Conference Hours Exhibit Hall Hours Friday, February 13: 1 pm ?10 pm 3 pm ? 9 pm Saturday February 14: 9 am ? 10 pm 10 am ? 9 pm Sunday, February 15: 9 am ? 8 pm 10 am ? 8 pm Monday, February 16 Post-Conference: 10 am ? 11 pm Zecharia Sitchin Zecharia Sitchin David Icke David Icke Marianne Williamson Marianne Williamson David Carradine David Carradine Sonia Choquette Sonia Choquette David Wilcock David Wilcock Eric Pearl Eric Pearl Dannion Brinkley Dannion Brinkley Jon Young Jon Young Sri Rani Kumra Sri Rani Kumra Eva Selhub Eva Selhub George Noory George Noory Master Sha Master Sha Sean David Morton Sean David Morton Jim Marrs Jim Marrs David Wolfe David Wolfe Vaishali Vaishali Emy Emy Walter Semkiw Walter Semkiw Ellen Eatough Ellen Eatough Fred Bell Fred Bell Farah Yurdozu Farah Yurdozu Barbara Lamb Barbara Lamb Bruce Goldberg Bruce Goldberg John Hogue John Hogue Dick Sutphen Dick Sutphen Kam Yuen Kam Yuen Julie Ferman Julie Ferman Arnoux Goran Arnoux Goran Meg Blackburn Meg Blackburn Ron Amitron Ron Amitron William Marks William Marks Susan Shumsky Susan Shumsky Kim Vincent BrandU's Kim Castle Mingtong Gu Mingtong Gu Bettye Binder Bettye Binder Rod Rotondi Rod Rotondi Julian Michael Julian Michael Hermann Muller Hermann M?ller Mirabai Devi Mirabai Devi Gary Quinn Gary Quinn Steven Halpern Steven Halpern Gudni Gudnason Gudni Gudnason Thomas Morton Thomas Morton Gerry Katzman Gerry Katzman Home Attend Exhibit Previous Expos Staff Philosophy ? Conscious Life Expo 2008 - Site Designed by Sahaya Graphics -- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 19:21:11 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 18:21:11 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Living now, naturally and sustainably via relocalizing Message-ID: <008e01c984dc$ecd8ea00$c68abe00$@net> This is an excellent article by Dave Ewoldt. Great photo Dave. Best wishes on your book. mary rose From: Mary Rose [mailto:dustysummerrose at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:00 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Fwd: Living now, naturally and sustainably via relocalizing Living now, naturally and sustainably via relocalizing http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content &task=view&id=298&Itemid=1 by Dave Ewoldt 25 January 2009 Image"It is not a sign of good health to be well-adjusted to a sick society." -- J. Krishnamurti Answering the question of how to live our lives right now, in the face of global crises that cause stress and depression in all those not living in outright denial, is the new global imperative. But to deal with this question we must come to terms with what has caused it to be asked in the first place if we truly desire to formulate an effective and satisfying answer. Many thinkers in the physical and biological sciences are starting to agree with environmental and social justice activists who point out with increasing frequency that the root of our systemic global and personal crises lies in our disconnection from the natural world, and in the culture that creates. This culture is entirely dependent upon unhealthy, exploitive relationships based on this disconnection. Our response is to create a sustainable future based on ecological wisdom and social justice. This goal carries with it a realization not pointed out often enough: that the culture we have now is not sustainable. Additionally, if lasting change is desired, it must be systemic. The problems require more than band-aids on symptoms. Applying single issue band-aids may alleviate immediate pain and suffering, but will not keep them from recurring. Further, as the root of global crises grows stronger, the symptoms will occur more frequently, in more places, and will be of increasingly greater destructive magnitude. It's long past time to quit clipping branches and to put some concerted effort into digging out the diseased root from which industrial civilization has grown. The systemic root of our disconnection from nature can be directly traced to the dominator paradigm which started conquering and subverting egalitarian cultures 6-8,000 years ago, and was firmly ensconced by 2,000 BC. As detailed by author Riane Eisler, this paradigm consists of force-based ranking hierarchies of control (humans over nature, men over women, one race over another) that are built on and maintained by fear. The individual is seen as more important than the group, and anything outside of the ego is seen as other. This other is automatically assumed to be inferior or lesser, and thus morally acceptable to exploit for personal benefit. We end up seeing ourselves as separate from and able to control the natural world, our own inner nature, and all the rest of our relationships. In fact, we assume we must exert this control in order to assure our prosperity and to further human progress. The dominator paradigm has led to what I call the Triumvirate of Collapse. This consists of Peak Oil, which is the end of increasing supplies of cheap and abundant fossil fuels and the economy which depends on them to power the Industrial Growth Society; Catastrophic Climate Destabilization (commonly known as global warming), which is causing the collapse of global ecosystems and shifting habitation for flora and fauna due to the abuse of the biosphere from burning fossil fuels, deforestation, and toxic pollution of the air, lands and oceans; and Corporatism, which is the loss of our sovereignty to a merger of state and corporate power. It is financed by the debt- based usury system of central banks and enforced by national militaries and police to control dwindling resources. The purpose seems to be to protect affluent lifestyles where overconsumption is taken as an entitlement. It is also important in laying this groundwork for change to come to an agreement of what we mean by sustainability. This is important both to ensure we're heading in the right direction, and to ensure we have a way to measure our success. I derived the following definition of sustainability from what experts in the field of sustainability around the globe have been using for decades, and I boiled down the commonalities of the different definitions into three clauses. This comprehensive definition can then be used to evaluate decisions and policies for their adherence to the stated goal of a sustainable future; to see if proposals are merely (sometimes necessary) holding actions; or to see if they actually support the status quo that we must implement an alternative to. Sustainability is: integrating our social and economic lives into the environment in ways that tend to enhance or maintain ecosystems rather than degrade or destroy them; a moral imperative to pass on our natural inheritance, not necessarily unchanged, but undiminished in its ability to meet the needs of future generations; finding, and staying within, the balance point amongst population, consumption, and waste assimilation where bioregions, watersheds and ecosystems maintain their ability to recharge and regenerate. With the above foundation, if we're willing to admit that the root of our systemic crises is our fundamental personal and cultural disconnection from nature, one common sense starting point in creating an effective antidote for global and personal ills would be to reconnect with nature. I must also explicitly point out here (since so many people seem to have forgotten) that humans are an aspect of the natural world. Our reconnection to nature, in order to be systemic, must be not only to the environment, but also be to each other, our communities, as well as reconnecting the culturally imposed split -- through both science and religion -- amongst body, mind, and spirit. Fortunately, reconnecting to nature turns out to be rather easy to do for anyone who is open to experiencing the process. This process comes from the field of applied ecopsychology, called the Natural Systems Thinking Process (NSTP). It can be easily learned and taught. The NSTP was developed by environmental educator and psychologist, Dr. Michael J. Cohen, founder of the Audubon Society's Expedition Institute and Project NatureConnect. The latter is the graduate department in applied ecopsychology for the Institute of Global Education, a special NGO consultant to UNESCO. The NSTP -- which leads to improved personal, social, and environmental health and well-being -- works by consciously and sensuously reconnecting all 53 of our senses to their roots in the natural world. All of our senses have evolved with natural expectations for fulfillment, and this fulfillment can be met by learning to follow and trust our natural attractions in the moment. A short example of this is when our sense of thirst makes itself known, we are attracted to water. When we satisfy this sense, our life is supported and we are rewarded with good feelings. Our sense of thirst is just as real as the water itself. As a natural system with its own cycles, when our bodies are done with the water, our sense of excretion makes itself known, and satisfying this sense also makes us feel good. Our natural attractions are informing us of how we can gain support in the moment if we trust them. Other senses that we share with the natural world include our senses of community, love, color, form, motion, temperature, and acceptance. Attractions that we might consider to be negative, such as physical or emotional pain or fear, are nature's way of informing us we don't have support in the moment, and we should be seeking more positive attractions elsewhere. Nature supplies an abundance to any species to meet their needs as long as they remain within the carrying capacity of their ecosystem. As a foretaste of where I'm heading with this line of reasoning, this is just the opposite of the scarcity model that orthodox growth economics relies upon. Where industrialized humans get into trouble is when we allow ourselves to get dangerously out of balance by letting only one or two senses, such as our senses of rationality and language, assume they are the only ones that matter -- that our intuitive and emotional senses will lead us astray or make us appear foolish. Another common problem is finding and clinging to addictive substitutes for our natural senses, such as substituting television for our natural sense of creativity, trying to use materialism as a substitute for emotional and spiritual health and well-being, and relying on prescription or recreational drugs, or psychotherapy and self-help programs as a substitute for healthy, mutually-supportive relationships. As J. Krishnamurti said, "It is not a sign of good health to be well-adjusted to a sick society." In the human built environment and in the social institutions we create, the process to become sustainable -- to holistically integrate our activities with the natural world -- is provided by a systemic concept known as relocalization. This is the antithesis as well as the antidote to corporate globalization. Relocalization includes the concepts that we must rebuild our local economies to be self-reliant; recapture our sense of place and belonging; reclaim our sovereignty; and restore our communities of mutual support. Relocalization entails a return to local autonomy within bioregional networks of interdependence; the production and distribution of renewable and non-toxic food, goods, services, and energy as close to the point of consumption as possible; and provides an antidote to the economic cannibalism of global growth, through the creation of steady- state local living economies. What provides more than mere hope that this process can actually be effective is that at its very core relocalization is based on the way that nature works. Which means the way that we work when not being manipulated and exploited by nothing more than stories that benefit someone else. Healthy ecosystems can be looked to for providing the models and metaphors humans require for becoming sustainable and creating mutually supportive relationships. All living organisms have the tendency to self-organize into mutually supportive attraction relationships. This can be said to be the prime activity of life; it creates the web of life which functions to create more life and diversity. Using the four core Natural Systems Principles -- mutual support and reciprocity, no waste, no greed, and increasing diversity -- to inform the process of relocalization, we can replace the dominator paradigm with a paradigm of partnership, and we can overcome and heal our disconnection and separation from the web of life. But as a quick side note, also explicit in maintaining adherence to these principles is the requirement to begin dealing honestly with the global overpopulation problem. Reconnecting and relocalizing. These are effective strategies that we can implement right now that are not merely reshuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. These strategies require neither a new techno-miracle to appear nor an evolutionary shift in consciousness to occur. We can do this because these twin strategies are based on the same natural systems principles that ecosystems use to stay healthy, vibrant, and resilient. Once we do more than rationally understand, but also sensuously experience our connection to the rest of the natural world, we begin to enjoy increased physical and mental well-being, improved social relationships, and benefit from the abundance of natural fulfillment. This is a natural and intimate aspect of who we really are, and can be used to blaze the path to a future where we all have the opportunities to realize our full potential for living now -- naturally and sustainably. _____ Dave Ewoldt is a co-founder and Executive Director of Natural Systems Solutions, and he is a counselor in ecopsychology. He is a published systems theorist and passionate advocate for relocalization. His book-in-progress is titled Connecting the Dots: Reversing Our Handbasket to Hell. E-mail: dave at reststop.net. This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Website: www.attractionretreat.org -- >From the desk of mary rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3145 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 2 03:01:32 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:01:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] Michael Greaney's Anti-Social Credit Essay In-Reply-To: <5AB15192-90C5-4D89-B9CF-E22E5F00A401@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <544464.98063.qm@web27408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 1/2/09, Wallace Klinck wrote: From: Wallace Klinck Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Michael Greaney's Anti-Social Credit Essay To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 11:36 AM Re: ?Michael Greaney's concerns about the compatibility of Social Credit and Christian philosophy and policy: Every organism has a natural right to draw sustenance from its environment. ?The Social Credit Dividend confers security of "property", dynamically to all. ?Social Credit would take away no existing personal possessions. ?The Dividend is not derived from taxation and is based upon distribution--not re-distribution. ?A citizen is entitled to what he physically earns--but the production of wealth is increasingly due to non-human factors. ?The producer of wealth would receive his reward, but additionally, all citizens would receive a share in that which is produced by non-human factors. ?What constitutes "property rights"? ?If ten people are stranded upon a luxurious, abundant and prolific Pacific Island is it right that they should all have access to the abundance of "bananas" in waiting--or is it equitable that the strongest amongst them erect a barrier around the grove and allow the others access only if they serve him in some way? ?Someone has said that like it or not, we are all "parasites" of some kind or another. ?That is the way nature works and we cannot without great peril abstract ourselves from this natural order and the principles which are operative within it. ?None of us is an independent entity unto ourselves. ?We work in association with nature and each other and benefit from the results which flow dynamically from such association. ?Social Credit recognizes the reality that in working in association we derive benefits which would not be possible through independent individual endeavor. ?This we call the Unearned Increment of Association. ?Thus, we build over time a great Cultural Heritage which belongs to no one person or group of persons and which constitutes an expanding foundation of knowledge as the basis of continuing progress. ?To suppose that any of us create wealth independent of all other contributory factors is a complete illusion--not to mention a major conceit. ?The reason that we are suffering so many problems is that we have, because of misguided moral notions, attempted to abstract ourselves from natural law. ?One might note here also that C. H. Douglas called for the abolition of all taxation on real property. ?This is, I hope, a partial answer to Michael Greaney's questions about Social Credit. ? I wonder he is aware of the booklet Social Credit & Catholicism (1936)?by the well-known Catholic philosopher George-Henri Levesque, O.P. Professor of Economics, Laval and Montreal Universities, Dominican House of Studies, Ottawa. ?This work asserts uncompromisingly that Social Credit is not tainted with socialism, is not a threat to private property and is consistent with Christian philosophy. Professor Levesque quotes the French-Canadian philosopher and scholar Professor F. E. ?Gregoire, speaking in 1946, when he said that it should be no surprise that Social Credit should make great progress in the Canadian Province of Qu?bec and that its growing popularity really should not be questioned. ?" Such questions," ?he stated, " de-note a misunderstanding, either of Catholic philosophy, or of Social Credit philosophy, or perhaps of both.... ?the Social Credit philosophy in no way contradicts our Christian philosophy. Every Social Creditor -- whether Catholic or Protestant --senses the parenthood between the Christian and Social Credit concepts of what should be the relations of man with man and ?of men with the state." ?Levesque's booklet states: ?" We may be magnificently social without being socialistic. ?Such is the case for the Creditors.... We do not hesitate to repeat the statement made at the beginning of our study: ?we do not find in the essential ideas of Social Credit any serious deficiency capable of preventing a Catholic from giving his support to this new economic system.... ?If you want neither Socialism or Communism, bring Social Credit in array against them. ?It will in your hands be a powerful weapon with which to fight these enemies." ?The author concludes, " Now, which is the attitude shown by Social Credit in regard to private ownership? Does Social Credit agree with the ?Catholic principles we have just expounded, or rather does it not draw its inspiration from the socialistic doctrine? ?We answer unhesitatingly that not only are the theories of Social Credit concerning private ownership in agreement with Catholic sociology, but they are also directly opposed to the principles of socialism." ?The author indicates that in his study he is especially concerned to explore the fundamental philosophical aspects of Social Credit as these relate to Christian belief. ? I think that, perhaps notably in the United States, there may be an erroneous tendency to identify "socialism" with sharing and with getting "something for nothing" as much as with its major and critical failing, i.e, the centralized planning, direction and control ?of human destiny. ?The two issues are not the same. ?This matter demonstrates the danger of paying too much regard to labels on a bottle instead of the actual contents of the vessel. ?Social Credit is concerned with the ?realistic integration of ends with means in the interests of social and economic stability. ?As Douglas stated, "That is moral which works best." ?I think that policies which result in enhanced human security and happiness realistically can be regarded as that which is "best." Sincerely Wally Klinck P.S. ?Bill (Ryan), if you care to do so, please feel free to post my comments above to the discussion group of the Center for Economic and Social Justice. ?These observations ?are perhaps not a complete response to Michael Greaney's concerns but I hope that they may constitute a partial reply at least.? Wally On 31-Jan-09, at 5:45 AM, Adavans at aol.com wrote: When Greaney alleges that the National Dividend somehow negates property rights he is at this point playing the only card he really he had in the first place.? He is saying in substance that property cannot exist if a commons i.e. cultural inheritance, exists.? Based on his argument then I would have to conclude that he has problems not only with Catholic Social Doctrine but with the whole concept of the Jubilee and the purpose it was to serve within the Commonwealth of Israel. Regards Alan -----Original Message----- From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com To: socialcredit at elistas.com Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 8:25 pm Subject: [socialcredit] Michael Greaney's Anti-Social Credit Essay Michael Greaney is the colleague of Norman Kurland of the Center for Economic and Social Justice in Washington, D.C. That organization is devoted to promoting the "Binary Economics" of Louis Kelso. Greaney's essay appended below was published in their discussion group today. Greaney takes two excerpts from *Credit-Power and Democracy* and *Economic Democracy.* He also takes a short excerpt from the Secretariat's website. He characterizes these excerpts as support ing socialism and as being against private property. I think we should discuss this and prepare a response. - January 30, 2009 Mr. Paul Likoudis P. O. Box 236 Hector, New York 14841 Dear Mr. Likoudis: By now you should have received your review copy of our latest publication, an annotated edition of William Cobbett's /The Emigrant's Guide/, first published in 1829. I'm sure you will find it most interesting. We owe you thanks, as well, for mentioning my book, /In Defense of Human Dignity/, in your article in the January 8, 2009 issue of /The Wanderer/, a copy of which Mr. Thomas Hoover of the Central Bureau, Catholic Central Union of America in St. Louis, kindly sent us. People may be led by your comments to purchase the book in order to see if my argument about social credit has any validity. That being said, I think your article would have been fairer to the reader and to me if you had given my reasons for believing that social credit is not compatible with Catholic social teaching. As it stands, your article makes the brief statement that I in my book claim that social credit is not consistent with Catholic social teaching, and then gives a lengthy list of statements in support of social credit from a number of very impressive people. It was a little surprising (to me at least) to read a single short paragraph at the beginning of the article statin g only that I do not consider social credit consistent with Catholic social teaching, and twenty-nine lengthy paragraphs quoting supporters of social credit without making any reference to the points in my book as to /why/ I do not believe social credit is consistent with Catholic social teaching. There is, of course, nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Your article does not, however, give any /arguments/ for (or, in my case, against) social credit; neither side of the case is presented fairly: "a just judge regards causes, not persons." (Gloss on Eph. 6:9) Who someone is, or how many people support or approve of something is, in Catholic teaching (or any other teaching, for that matter) irrelevant if the thing can be shown contrary to truth. To maintain that something is true because of the prestige, faith, wealth, power, or anything else related to its supporters is the /ad hominem/ circumstantial logical fallacy. That is, you judge what someone says not by its objective truth or the strength of the argument, but on the basis of who said it. The /ad hominem/ circumstantial fallacy, a standard technique of the Modernists and other positivists, is an example of what translates rather clumsily into English as the sin of "Respect of Persons." Judging from the quotes in your article, I believe that supporters of social credit, obviously well-intentioned, have given too much weight to t he fact that Major Douglas' desired /ends/ are, in general, compatible with the expressed material ends of Catholic social teaching. That is, they appear to focus almost exclusively on the assertion that implementing social credit will give every family an adequate and secure income sufficient to meet common domestic needs, a stable social order, and protection of life, liberty, and property. The objective moral quality of the /means/ by which these ends are presumably to be attained, however, is ignored. Despite what some of my critics have maintained, I agree with the temporal /end/ of social credit --- an adequate and secure income sufficient to meet common domestic needs --- and I believe that goal to be fully compatible with Catholic social teaching. I can say the same about the goals of Henry George, G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc, and even, within some very narrowly prescribed limits, Karl Marx and Lord Keynes. Agreement on /ends/, however, is not the problem. As Pope Benedict XVI has suggested by highlighting the sweeping moral relativism that afflicts the modern world, many people believe that if something gets you what you want, it must be good. Otherwise well-intentioned people downplay or in some cases even ignore dangers associated with the means selected to achieve desired ends. On the contrary, as many astute commentators from Aristotle down to the present pope have noted, the end does not j ustify the means. The means must be consistent with the natural law and not offend against the dignity of the human person. This is because Catholic social teaching is based on the natural law "written in the hearts of all men." (Ia IIae, q. 94) As Aquinas points out, the natural law can therefore be understood through the use of unaided human reason ("law is in the reason alone," Ia IIae, q. 90). Because a particular faith or revelation is not essential to understanding the natural law or Catholic social teaching based on the natural law, the precepts of Catholic social teaching --- properly understood --- are binding on every human being. That being the case, it necessarily follows that proving or disproving Catholic social teaching (or any program or proposal that claims to be consistent or compatible with Catholic social teaching), cannot rely on "documents of faith" for proof (/i.e/., an individual's understanding of a revelation from God) but "on the statements of the philosophers themselves" (/i.e./, human reason subjected to analysis and objective study) as Chesterton quoted Aquinas in /The Dumb Ox/ (1933). Thus, simply listing names of people, however good, well-intentioned, even holy they might be, and quoting their conclusion that --- in their opinion --- social credit is consistent with Catholic social teaching, proves nothing. It is not an argument, and is thus not consistent with the duty to apply unaided human reason to our understanding of the precepts of Catholic social teaching. (A /caveat/ is necessary here. When I say that Catholic social teaching can be understood through the use of unaided reason, I do not mean that there is no place for faith. We must accept that faith cannot contradict reason, and that reason cannot contradict faith. That which is true is as true, and is true in the same way, as everything else that is true. Faith illuminates our reason, just as reason deepens our faith. Faith or reason in isolation has always led down the wrong path. When either faith or reason appears to contradict the other, there is usually a flaw either in our understanding of an article of faith, or in our reasoning. When that happens, neither reason nor faith can simply reject the other by fiat, as has become increasingly popular in the modern age, but come to some common ground of understanding in order to discern the truth.) We cannot, therefore, conclude that, because some of the desired /ends/ of Catholic social teaching and those of social credit appear to be the same, social credit is compatible with Catholic social teaching with respect to its /means/. Simply meeting people's animal needs in sufficient quantity and quality to provide adequately for their material nature is only half the issue. The other half is to respect people's special status as adopted children of God, different not only in /degree/ from lesser creatures, but in /kind/, that is, in substantial nature. This requires that we not undermine or negate the natural rights that define us as human persons. In common with Catholic social teaching and the natural law, CESJ's Just Third Way is based on respect for the dignity and sovereignty of the human person under God, as we state in our "Core Values." From this essential principle we derive the "Four Pillars" of an economically just society. Omitting any one of the four seriously distorts the institutional structure of society, and thus disrupts society's proper function of assisting the individual person in acquiring and developing virtue, and so becoming "more fully human." The Four Pillars are: 1. *A limited economic role for the State*. (The principle of subsidiarity; the State's role is confined to ensuring --- not necessarily providing --- a "level playing field," policing abuses, and settling disputes.) 2. *Free and open markets*. (Not /laissez-faire/, "anything goes," but a market to which everyone has full access as workers, owners, and consumers, circumscribed within a strong juridical order to ensure a "level playing field," as well as provide the most objective and democratic means for determining just prices, just wages, and just profits.) 3. *Restoration of the rights of private property, especially in corporate equity*. (By focusing on corporate e quity, even the largest corporation is brought within "human scale" through property's unique function of conferring power --- control and the right to the fruits --- on the owner over what is owned.) 4. *Widespread direct ownership of the means of production*. (This necessarily includes democratic access to the means of acquiring and possessing the means of production.) My conclusion that social credit is not consistent with Catholic social teaching comes from statements by Major Douglas and a significant number of social crediters that appear to violate one or more of the Four Pillars. I say, "appear" because neither Major Douglas nor his followers are clear and concise in explaining specifics of the social credit proposal. Most social credit writings go on at great length describing the presumed benefits to be derived from implementing a program of social credit. They tend to put insufficient emphasis on explaining or even detailing program specifics, however, and also use terms that have not been adequately defined, or do not use words in conformity with their generally accepted meanings. Further, Major Douglas himself was not the clearest writer. For example, take the following passage from what many social crediters consider one of Douglas' most important books, /Credit-Power and Democracy/ (1920): "Assuming that our total National Production of Real Credit is four times (or whatever it is) of our tota l National Consumption of Real Credit, how is the individual or collective consumer who, be it remembered, is an integral factor in Real Credit, and as truly part-producer of it as the direct producer himself how is he to share in the surplus of Credit-Production over Credit-Consumption? It is conceivable that a balance might be struck at the end of our financial year, showing the nation's net gain of Real Credit, and that every citizen should be credited with his share of the increment of credit revealed. That would be a co-operative commonwealth indeed. The proposal of the Scheme is much simpler in practice, though the theory is similar. Instead of waiting until the end of each year, and then apportioning the increment of Real Credit to every individual, the present Clause proposes to distribute the Credit at the same time that the Goods in question are bought, by charging to the consumer as Price only that fraction of Cost which Total Consumption is of Total Production. If he be charged the Cost Price, he is clearly being debited with Consumption without at the same time being credited with the Production that is brought about by Consumption. He is charged with the depreciation of Credit, but he is not given the benefit of the resulting appreciation of Credit; and the total National Increment of Real Credit either goes into private hands or requires to be divided at the end of the year. By fixing the Price of all ultimate products (domestic coal in this instance) at the same fraction of Cost that our total National Consumption of Credit is of our total National Production of Credit, the consumer is given his share of the increment of National Credit at the very moment when he wants it that is to say, when he is buying the goods which Real Credit exists to deliver to him." (/Credit-Power and Democracy/, pp. 200-201) Frankly, if anyone can tell me what the above passage means in ordinary, everyday language, I would welcome the opportunity to remedy my complete bafflement. Because I found Major Douglas' writings so obtuse, I described him as a "profound" thinker in the article in my book. I have since changed my mind, and believe that he succumbed to the temptation to describe his proposals and principles in language that might have seemed clear to him and to the inner circle of his followers, but which tend to confuse those of us not "in the know." For that reason, I took selected passages that, while still confusing, were more explicit than the passages to which social crediters referred me for clarification. The following passage from /Economic Democracy/ (1920), while still confusing, does make some specific claims: "...let all production be costed on a uniform system open to inspection, the factory cost being easily ascertained by making all payments through a credit agency ; th e manner of procedure to this end is described hereafter. Let all payments for materials and plant be made through the Credit Agency and let plant increases be a running addition to the existing National Debt, and let the yearly increase in the debt be equally distributed after proper depreciation. Let the selling price of the product be adjusted in reference to the effective demand by means of a depreciation rate fixed on the principle described subsequently, and let all manufacturing and agriculture be done, with broad limits, to a programme...[The paragraph in the original ends at "programme," although something seems to be omitted.] "Now, consider the effect of these measures: Firstly, there is an immediate fall in prices which is cumulative, and, consequently, a rise in the purchasing power of money. Secondly, there is a widening of effective demand of all kinds by the wider basis of financial distribution. There is a sufficient incentive to produce, but there is communal control of undesirable production through the agency of credit ; and there is incentive to efficiency. There is the mechanism by which the most suitable technical ability would be employed where it would be most useful, while the separation of a sufficient portion of the machinery of economic distribution from the processes of production would restore individual initiative, and, under proper conditions, minimise the effects of bureaucracy." (pp. 125-127 ) The first paragraph describes the operation of a centrally-controlled economy, in which control --- property --- is taken away from the ostensible "owners" and vested in a "Credit Agency." This "Credit Agency" appears to have the essential powers, though not the name, of an omnipotent, centralized State. The second paragraph substantiates this understanding by stating that, "there is communal control of undesirable production through the agency of credit." There is also the confusing, nearly incoherent statement that "the separation of a sufficient portion of the machinery of economic distribution from the processes of production would restore individual initiative, and, under proper conditions, minimize the effects of bureaucracy." It is not clear how putting a bureaucracy in total control of production (the "agency of credit") would "minimize the effects of bureaucracy." Putting a bureaucracy in charge and vesting it with such overwhelming control (power) would, it seems to me, tend to increase, not "minimize" the "effects of bureaucracy," thereby violating the principle of subsidiarity. These statements by Douglas, while expressed in a confused manner, indicate that (in common with many other innovative thinkers who have not correlated their thought with essential principles of natural law) social credit undermines the institution of private property. The effect is to abolish private property in the means of production as a natura l right. This is not unusual. Private property is almost always the focus of any initial attack on human dignity. I believe this is due to the fact that few people actually understand property, and therefore are more willing to go along with a program that destroys it. Most people understand the right to life at some level, many understand liberty (or at least think they do), but almost no one has a good understanding of property. Consequently, few people are in a position to understand why an attack on private property, whatever the hoped-for benefits, is an attack on their humanity and dignity. As I said in my book, there has never been a society that, having abolished private property, did not quickly follow up with denying the natural rights to life and liberty. Social innovators are always trying to slip things past people in order to gain some end. The end itself may be good, as in social credit, or it may be bad, as in communism, but the means are always the same: a seemingly insignificant change in essential principles of the natural law, and thus Catholic social teaching. As Chesterton explains in /The Dumb Ox/, his short biography of St. Thomas Aquinas, "Since the modern world began in the sixteenth century, nobody's system of philosophy has really corresponded to everybody's sense of reality; to what, if left to themselves, common men would call common sense. Each started with20a paradox: a peculiar point of view demanding the sacrifice of what they would call a sane point of view. That is the one thing common to Hobbes and Hegel, to Kant and Bergson, to Berkeley and William James. A man had to believe something that no normal man would believe, if it were suddenly propounded to his simplicity; as that law is above right, or right is outside reason, or things are only as we think them, or everything is relative to a reality that is not there. The modern philosopher claims, like a sort of confidence man, that if once we will grant him this, the rest will be easy; he will straighten out the world, if once he is allowed to give this one twist to the mind." (pp. 145-146) An attack on private property is almost always the "one twist to the mind" to which Chesterton referred. Once you can sneak the abolition of private property past people, the rest is easy --- or so the innovators believe. As political commentators through the ages have made clear, however, power naturally and necessarily follows property. Once people have been stripped of property in the means of production, they become, as William Cobbett pointed out more than once, mere slaves of the State. Pope Leo XIII went even further, claiming that, without private property, man becomes indistinguishable from the animals: "Every man has by nature the right to possess property as his own. This is one of th e chief points of distinction between man and the animal creation." (/Rerum Novarum/, ? 6) That social credit embodies (unconsciously, it is hoped) an attack on private property in the basic principles justifying social credit appears evident from the following two quotes from /Economic Democracy/: "All improvements in process should be made to pay a dividend to the community. (p. 101) "Natural resources are common property, and the means for their exploitation should also be common property." (p. 111) I believe that any person of ordinary intelligence who reads the two quotes will come to the same conclusion I did, that Douglas was asserting --- contrary to explicit statements in Catholic social teaching --- 1) all natural resources belong to some "collective" of the human race, 2) all technology belongs to the human race as a "collective," and 3) all production --- the fruits of ownership --- belongs to the human race as a "collective." As that appears to be the meaning of the two quotes in ordinary speech, the burden is on social crediters to present a sound argument to the contrary. Far from doing that, however, they appear to have substantiated my conclusions. As Louis Evan states in Chapter 14 of /The Age of Plenty/, the full text of which is available on the web site of the /"Michael" Journal/, "It [the National Dividend] is an income distributed to all, because it belongs to all...It is the production surplus, immobilized at the moment, that the dividend proposes to distribute." The phrase "because it belongs to all" appears to abolish private property. If everyone owns everything, then, logically, no person owns anything individually, or "privately." The claims of Douglas' "Social Credit Secretariat," ( http://douglassocialcredit.com/about.php ) appears to substantiate social credit's abolition of private property. The Secretariat is an organization in the United Kingdom dedicated to the promotion of social credit, basing their explanations of social credit on the novels of Eimar O'Duffy and a number of poets. On their web page, "What is Social Credit?" they have the following explanation of the proposal. I have left the spelling and caps exactly as posted on their web site: "Just as we have freely inherited the works of Shakespeare, Beethoven, Rembrandt and countless others in the arts, so we have freely inherited the benefits of science and technology. It is OUR COMMON CULTURAL HERTAGE, entitling each of us to an equal and fair share in it as our birthright in the form of a NATIONAL DIVIDEND. On this basis of our common cultural heritage, unemployment can be transmuted into more leisure with a BASIC INCOME FOR ALL. "Such dividends would be over and above earnings. To forestall any possibility of inflation, the National Dividend to all individuals would be matched by a reduction in retail prices to the consumer through the mechanism of the JUST PRICE. This is best visualised as the reverse of VAT. As VAT increases prices, so the Just Price would reduce them, so eliminating inflation for good." Taking the language in the above quote in its common meaning, a reasonable person would conclude that social credit bases its proposals on the belief that the collective owns the means of production. "Collective ownership" and "private ownership" are two different things. The former is an explicit denial of the latter, making the basis of social credit apparently indistinguishable from that of socialism: "the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property." (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, /The Communist Manifesto/, 1848.) The abolition of private property is directly contrary to explicit papal statements in the encyclicals. Attacks on private property take away or abolish a natural right. Abolishing private property is thus contrary to the natural law, the basis of Catholic social teaching, as is substantiated by the universal prohibition against theft. As Dr. Heinrich Rommen, a student of Father Heinrich Pesch, S.J., Ph.D., explained, "'Thou shalt not steal' presupposes the institution of private property as pertaining to the natural law." (/The Natural Law/, p. 59.) Natural r ights are what define us as "natural persons." Attacking a natural right is an offense against the dignity of the human person. This is why Pope Leo XIII declared, "We have seen that this great labor question cannot be solved save by assuming as a principle that private ownership must be held sacred and inviolable. The law, therefore, should favor ownership, and its policy should be to induce as many as possible of the people to become owners." (/Rerum Novarum/, ? 46.) Pope Pius XI confirmed this assessment when he explained in /Quadragesimo Anno/ why the Church necessarily condemns socialism. It is not because socialism attacks private property, but because socialism attacks human nature itself (and thus God's Nature) by undermining the natural law and destroying human dignity. The attack on private property is, ultimately, only a symptom of a much deeper problem, as His Holiness makes clear: "But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether20this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because /its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth/." (? 117) [Emphasis added.] Thus, a socialist or social crediter could admit that people can be permitted to own the means of production (thereby making private property not a matter of justice under the natural law, but prudential matter), but still contradict the natural law and thus Catholic social teaching by offending against human dignity. Social credit's claim that the fruits of ownership, "surplus" or not, "belong to all," are "common property," or other words to that effect, is thus socialism, pure and simple, and (according to Pope Pius XI) necessarily contrary to Catholic social teaching. Until such time as someone --- anyone --- who can speak with authority on social credit and for the social credit movement as a whole can present a clear and coherent argument why the statements of Major Douglas and members of the social credit movement do not, in fact, mean what they appear to mean, I must in honesty continue to maintain my conclusion that social credit does not appear to be consistent with Catholic social teaching. It is irrelevant how many people, however good and holy, assert otherwise if they cannot give some kind of acceptable proof of their assertions --- and describing hoped-for benefits or giving cloudy justifications derived from unclear principles is not proof. In short, as Chesterton explains, "It is no good to tell an atheist that he is an atheist; or to charge a denier of immortality with the infamy of denying it; or to imagine that one can force an opponent to admit he is wrong, by proving that he is wrong on somebody else's principles, but not on his own. After the great example of St. Thomas, the principle stands, or ought always to have stood established; that we must either not argue with a man at all, or we must argue on his grounds and not ours." (/The Dumb Ox/, p. 95.) Thus, it does no good to point out to me that I believe social credit is inconsistent with Catholic social teaching. That is obvious from my book, as I state it clearly and without equivocation --- along with my support for the claim. The task for you, and what should in justice and fairness have been found in your article, is to state just as clearly the pri nciples of natural law and Catholic social teaching that I presumably misunderstand or contradict, and the arguments by social crediters proving that social credit is, contrary to my /argument/ (not my /conclusion/), consistent with the natural law and Catholic social teaching. You would therefore do the social credit movement a great service if you could prevail upon some of the authorities you cited to give clear and concise answers to the following questions: 1. How does social credit define "human dignity"? 2. How does social credit define "private property"? 3. How does social credit define "money"? 4. How does social credit define "credit"? 5. What is the "National Dividend"? 6. How does the State pay the "National Dividend" and where does the State obtain the funds? 7. Does the social credit program involve the State printing money? If so, what are the steps involved in the process? 8. Does social credit claim that taxation will be abolished? If so, why? (That is, not "Why is the abolition of taxation presumably good?" but "By what means will taxes be abolished, and where will the State raise funds to meet legitimate expenditures?") It is essential that whoever answers these questions not simply list presumed benefits to be enjoyed from implementing a social credit program, but gives precise and understandable definitions of terms, and explains in clear=2 0language how the system is to work. In closing, I did not see anything in your article that addressed these serious issues and perceived flaws in social credit. That being the case, I am forced to stand by my original conclusion and argument presented in my book that social credit is not compatible with the natural law, or Catholic social teaching based on the natural law. Yours, Michael D. Greaney, CPA, MBA Director of Research Center for Economic and Social Justice http://just3rdway.blogspot.com cc. A. J. Matt, Jr. Rupert J. Ederer, Ph.D. Rev. Edward Krause, C.S.C., Ph.D. Rev. Cassian J. Yuhaus, C.P., H.E.D. Raphael Waters, Ph.D. Dr. Charles Rice Dr. Samuel Nigro Dr. Steven White Thomas Hoover Ronald G. Precup, KC*HS --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email adavans at aol.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck at shaw.ca For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 2 05:08:41 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:08:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] Re: Replying to Tim Knight In-Reply-To: <6B81AA700A4A43CB8E97EA6CD27709BB@Tim> Message-ID: <588690.59320.qm@web27403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Tim Knight wrote: From: Tim Knight Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Replying to Tim Knight To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:00 AM Bill, ? I have added some comments in red.? ----- Original Message ----- From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com To: socialcredit at elistas.com Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: [socialcredit] Re: Replying to Tim Knight However, that is not what I meant by zero-sum in my e-mail.? What I meant was that each item of owed-wealth ('money' and non-'money' without distinction) appears in two balance sheets; once as an asset and once as an equal and opposite liability. ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- The only truth in this statement is that money is a liability to its issuer, and an asset to its holder.? But money transactions are not zero sum as reflected by changes to capital.? I don't understand this comment about 'capital'.? A money transaction is a zero-sum closed circle of zero-sum postings.? Following a trade transaction which created a debt owed by the buyer to the seller (and recorded in the buyer's payables account and the sellers receivables account, a payment transaction comprises the following: The seller credits the buyer and debits the banking system.? The bank credits the?seller and debits the buyer. The buyer credits the banking system and debits the seller.? End of story.? Capital doesn't come into it.? ? 1. Equity (or 'capital') is a liability (owed by the enterprise to the owners). ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- No, capital is not a liability.? Capital is capital.? The rules of accounting are completely different for the two.? The recognition of the capital account in about the twelfth century was the most significant development in the evolution of modern accounting. I have perhaps misunderstood what you mean by the expression 'capital'.? I assumed it to be a synonym of?the expression 'equity'.? Certainly, there are precisely two sides to a balance sheet (assets and liabilities),?the two must balance to zero, and every item must be in one of these sides.? In practice, the total of liabilities is brought into balance with assets by setting equity (the liability owed by?the business?to the owners) to a value which brings the two to equality.? This is?intuitively-satisfactory (the business?owes the net of everything else to the owners).??What do you actually mean by the expression 'capital'? - Thus, each item of owed-wealth ('money' and non-'money' without distinction) nets to zero across the whole economy, and is therefore irrelevant in a macro-economic context. ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- The basis of this fallacy is that you make no distinction between 'money' and non-'money'.? Absolutely.? That is the?point I am trying to make.? I cannot see any reason to distinguish between 'money' and non-'money' assets and liabilities.? I've never seen a balance sheet which makes such a distinction (other than for cash-flow administrative reasons).? Transactions utilize money but in double entry accounting they do not "net to zero" because there is profit and loss, which represent operational change to the capital account.? A profit to one firm does not mean than another firm or firms have incurred an equal loss.? In principle it is possible for all firms to profit simultaneously.??It seems to me that profit and loss arises from production, consumption, appreciation, depreciation and trade.? The only transactions which affect 'money' are zero-sum payment transactions, through which buyers/employers and sellers/employees co-operate to use the cash and/or banking systems to 'intermediate' the debts arising from trade and employment.?? - 2. Equity (or 'capital') is calculated as (assets) minus (non-equity liabilities). ?? 3. Therefore (assets) equals (liabilities). ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- No, Assets = Liabilities + Capital which is definitely not a zero sum equation.? A balance sheet has precisely two sides: assets and liabilities.? They are always equal.? Whatever you mean by the expression 'capital', it must part of one side or the other.??I believe it is a liability (owed by the business to it's owners).? - 3. The balance recorded in each current account in debit or overdraft appears in the account-holder's balance sheet as a liability asset and in the bank's balance sheet as an equal and opposite asset. ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- There is no such thing as a "liability asset."? Absolutely right.? I'm afraid this was a typo that got past my spell check.? Every occurrence of the expression 'liability asset' should have been simply 'liability'.? Sorry for the confusion? A current account that is overdrawn is in debit balance in the bank's books (i.e. an asset).? That would be the case only if the bank covered the overdraft.? I don't understand what you mean by the expression 'covered'.? If an account is overdrawn, the balance is an asset in the bank's books and a liability in the account-holder's books.? End of story.? In that case it is effectively a loan to the account holder.? I agree.?But what is your point?? ? - 6. The balance recorded in each paid-after-the-event trading account normally appears in the buyer's payables account as a liability and in the seller's receivables account as an equal and opposite asset. ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- A "paid-after-the-event trading account" I should think is just a confusing way of saying "charge account."? I mean?an account recording trade and payment in which the payment is made after delivery (usually after an invoice or statement has been presented by the seller to the buyer).??However, I do accept that I invented the terminology.? I apologise for any confusion.? ? - 7. The balance recorded in each paid-before-the-event trading account normally appears in the buyer's payables account as an asset and in the seller's receivables account as an equal and opposite liability. ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- I can only guess as to what you mean by a "paid-before-the-event trading account."? Do you mean "prepayment" as in a layaway or prepaid insurance?? I mean?an account recording trade and payment in which the delivery is made after the payment.??Again however, I do accept that I invented the terminology.? I apologise for any confusion.??? - Tim, you appear to be using highly unusual terminology, which will only lead to confusion.? I apologise for any confusion.??? -----------------original message-------------------- Joe, ? I was indeed involved in an exchange of views on this list some time ago about the nature and relevance of 'money'.? However, the exchange fizzled out when I got the impression that most others on the list thought it was a diversion from the main purpose of the list.? I have been a lurker ever since, until the issue came up again. ? In answer to your specific point, I believe that a balance sheet always balances to zero simply because: ?? 1. Equity (or 'capital') is a liability (owed by the enterprise to the owners). ?? 2. Equity (or 'capital') is calculated as (assets) minus (non-equity liabilities). ?? 3. Therefore (assets) equals (liabilities).? However, that is not what I meant by zero-sum in my e-mail.? What I meant was that each item of owed-wealth ('money' and non-'money' without distinction) appears in two balance sheets; once as an asset and once as an equal and opposite liability.? Thus, each item of owed-wealth ('money' and non-'money' without distinction) nets to zero across the whole economy, and is therefore irrelevant in a macro-economic context.? More specifically: ?? 1. The owed-wealth 'evidenced' by each item of non-precious cash (i.e. each note and non-precious coin) appears in the bearer's balance sheet as an asset and in the issuer's balance sheet as an equal and opposite liability (usually in a national debt as M0). ?? 2. The balance in each current account in credit appears in the account-holder's balance sheet as an asset and in the bank's balance sheet as an equal and opposite liability. ?? 3. The balance recorded in each current account in debit or overdraft appears in the account-holder's balance sheet as a liability asset and in the bank's balance sheet as an equal and opposite asset. ?? 4. The balance recorded in each mortgage account (normally in debit or overdraft) appears in the account-holder's balance sheet as a liability asset and in the bank's balance sheet as an equal and opposite asset. ?? 5. The balance recorded in each credit card account (normally in debit or overdraft) appears in the account-holder's balance sheet as a liability asset and in the bank's balance sheet as an equal and opposite asset. ?? 6. The balance recorded in each paid-after-the-event trading account normally appears in the buyer's payables account as a liability and in the seller's receivables account as an equal and opposite asset.? ?? 7. The balance recorded in each paid-before-the-event trading account normally appears in the buyer's payables account as an asset and in the seller's receivables account as an equal and opposite liability.? ?? 8. Etc.. Best Wishes ? Tim Knight ? 00-44-117-962-2324 Landline 00-44-777-990-4473 Mobile ????? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email tim.knight.2 at googlemail.com For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 10:34:00 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:34:00 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Stop Rearranging Deck Chairs on the Titanic and Nationalize the Damn Banks Message-ID: <006a01c9855c$7e3640e0$7aa2c2a0$@net> FYI -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:16 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Stop Rearranging Deck Chairs on the Titanic and Nationalize the Damn Banks (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Stop Rearranging Deck Chairs on the Titanic and Nationalize the Damn Banks http://www.alternet.org/workplace/123539/stop_rearranging_deck_chairs_on_the _titanic_and_nationalize_the_damn_banks/ By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted January 30, 2009. It's the best possible course to rescue our economy at this point; all the other options would be disastrous. The painful but unavoidable reality of the financial crisis is that every dollar spent trying to prop up a failing bank is just good money thrown after bad; a taxpayer rip-off, short and sweet. But in Washington, many are trying to avoid that fact nonetheless. Economist Paul Krugman wrote that the political establishment has "become devotees of a new kind of voodoo [economics]: the belief that by performing elaborate financial rituals we can keep dead banks walking." Goldman Sachs' economists estimate that those rituals might cost up to $4 trillion to perform. It's time that the government stops flailing around with piecemeal bailouts and loan guarantees, takes over these institutions -- takes them out of private ownership -- sells off their good assets in an orderly way, trashes the toxic stuff and then resells them to the private sector down the road as leaner institutions that are dedicated to the primary purpose of banking: making loans and holding deposits. In economic circles, that's the "N-word" -- it isn't a racial epithet, it's "nationalization," and it was unheard of in mainstream discourse just a few short months ago. But it's remarkable how a crisis as deep as the one we face today can change which ideas are considered mainstream. In a way, nationalization is the approach that most closely adheres to "free market" principles, which dictate that poorly managed firms should go under, freeing up their human and other capital to be absorbed by well-managed businesses. Sometimes, the market works. Wall Street's titans lobbied like hell to get regulators off their backs, they figured out elaborate ways to "launder the risk" out of high-risk debt, and then they engaged in a furious push to get lenders to make more and ever-shakier loans -- the raw materials of those "innovative investment vehicles" that are now known as "toxic securities." They did that based on an entirely irrational idea that the housing market would continue to grow dramatically forever, and they did it while ignoring voices of sanity which warned that they were steering those fancy "investment vehicles" right off a cliff. Now, many are teetering on the brink of collapse, and classical economic theory says they should crash and burn. But with financial giants like Citi or AIG, the common argument against that course is that regardless of their complicity in creating the global economic meltdown, they're simply "too big to fail" because their collapse would have a ripple effect through the economy. This is probably accurate; a sudden crash of an institution with hundreds of billions of dollars -- or even trillions -- on its balance sheets would have far-reaching effects. When Lehman Brothers went belly-up last fall, it came close to bringing down the entire global financial system with it. But a major problem with all of the approaches tried so far -- and those being discussed in connection with the future of the dubious Troubled Assets Relief Program -- is they're all premised on the idea that these faltering institutions can, and should be propped up and remain in the private sector. Their investors' stakes, while worth a fraction of what they were a year ago, are being protected (and many ailing institutions are still paying out dividends). And while Capitol Hill has been flush with largely symbolic gestures to cap executive pay or limit the shininess of management's golden parachutes, most of the people who ran these institutions into the ground -- as well as the global economy as a whole -- are holding onto their cushy jobs. Nationalization is a radical move, but there are real and practical problems with trying to prop up falling banks that are fundamentally unsound. So far, several broad approaches have been bandied about in D.C. All have similar flaws, and all represent an elaborate dance around the N-word. The first is to buy up the banks' toxic assets -- the original concept behind the TARP. The government would fund the creation of a "bad bank" to hold onto those assets in the hope that they would increase in value down the road and maybe return some cash to the taxpayers. The argument is that the government can buy and hold that junk with money the private sector can't raise, and also pays less for the cash in the first place. But there's a big problem with the idea of creating a "bad bank." Asset prices are so low right now that either the government overpays for them, providing a huge subsidy to shareholders in companies that are on the shakiest of ground, or it pays a fair value for those assets, in which case banks holding large amounts of debt-based securities would have little incentive to participate. If they did, they'd go belly-up anyway (if they could simply sell off their crappy paper at current prices -- however one determines what those prices are in a market that's essentially shut down -- we wouldn't be in this mess). Another proposal -- one that has gained currency since the first round of TARP money was dished out -- is to "recapitalize the banks" by buying stock in the firms. The government would basically become an investor, and assuming that the institutions in question rebounded, it could later sell its shares and recoup some or all of the dollars taxpayers threw at them. Here, there's a similar problem. The value of bank stocks are at rock bottom, and there's a reason for that: they represent a terrible investment, and that would effectively make the U.S. taxpayer the sucker of last resort -- a chump who would buy into a failing institution. Yes, it's possible that somewhere down the road, these banks would return to health, but it's important to recall that the financial sector has become bloated with excess capacity, so that outcome is anything but guaranteed, and at the very least would take years to realize. The U.S. government has already taken this approach, "partially nationalizing" several banks. But when the feds only go partway, we get ripped off. In the case of Bank of America and Citigroup, the Fed pumped more money into those banks than their entire market value, and in exchange taxpayers got a 6 percent stake in BofA and 7.8 percent of Citi. As econ-blogger Barry Ritholtz noted: "How 120 [percent] of a company's market [value] yields a single-digit ownership stake is beyond my comprehension." Perhaps the biggest problem with this approach is that while the public gets a stake in the banks' future, so far it's given the government little or no say over how the banks do business while they enjoy the public's largesse. Banks are reportedly hoarding money to beef up their balance sheets, using TARP funds to pay out dividends and bonuses, or buying up smaller, sicker institutions. There's plenty of talk in Congress about requiring greater transparency of firms receiving TARP funds -- along with talk of requiring them to lend money (stupid talk; making banks lend to maxed-out individuals and cash-strapped businesses that aren't creditworthy is the epitome of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result), of caps on CEO pay and all the rest -- but it is virtually impossible to fully account for those funds when they're ultimately being doled out by corporate managers. "Leakage" is inevitable; there's really no way to guarantee that a TARP dollar doesn't end up being spent on purposes other than for those which it was intended. Another tool in the kit is to guarantee the value of the banks' holdings -- essentially making the government an insurance broker (this was part of the bailouts for Citi and BofA, and has been done aggressively in the U.K.). But this may be the worst solution, for much the same reason: as the underlying assets tank -- and most analysts say we're not near the bottom in real estate -- the cost to taxpayers will be enormous, and they'll get nothing in return. The premiums required to make that insurance business profitable (or a break-even) for Joe and Jane TaxPayer would be exorbitant, so banks taking advantage of the program would give the government equity in return -- again, that's partial nationalization. Nationalizing the banks outright is another story. "The case for full nationalization is far stronger now than it was a few months ago," Adam Posen, the deputy director of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, told the New York Times. "If you don't own the majority, you don't get to fire the management, to wipe out the shareholders, to declare that you are just going to take the losses and start over. It's the mistake the Japanese made in the '90s." Nationalizing failing banks outright would be expensive, and comes with risk, but it's a way to address most of the crucial flaws in the ad hoc approach taken so far. How would it work? The government would put teetering institutions deemed too big to fail under trusteeship. Many among the current management teams would join the ranks of the unemployed, shareholders would get wiped out -- an important piece of tough love that might dissuade people from following the herd into the next speculation-fueled bubble. And then the government would liquidate the institutions' assets in an orderly, gradual way. Then, finally, it would sell back smaller, leaner institutions -- without the burden of piles of bad paper on their books -- to the private sector at a later date. Proponents of the plan argue that taxpayers might even see a profit from the transaction, but that's far from a given. The reality is that while it's probably the least bad plan, and would likely result in the lowest ultimate cost to the taxpayer, a similar approach, but far smaller in scope, was used in the 1980s to bail out the savings and loans and ended up costing taxpayers $150 billion. Perhaps the best rationale for nationalization is that the bursting bubble that precipitated this crisis wasn't in tech stocks or commodities -- it was a bubble built largely on people's homes. The New York Times, which continues to ignore the underlying collapse of the housing bubble, notes that one of the flaws in the plan is that "if the government is perceived as running the banks, the administration would come under enormous political pressure to halt foreclosures." But what they call a bug is obviously a feature of nationalization. The foreclosure crisis is spreading, and foreclosed properties fuel a vicious cycle, dragging down real estate prices in the areas where they're concentrated, which in turn puts more homeowners "under water" -- owing more on the mortgage than their houses are worth -- which in turn increases the number of foreclosures. If the banks were nationalized, the government could declare a moratorium on foreclosures for the properties it controls, and move to restructure mortgages -- perhaps at subsidized rates -- for homeowners on the bubble. This is an important part of the puzzle. So far, government efforts to bailout homeowners have had little success, in large part because privately held institutions have an obligation to their shareholders to avoid writing down the principle of loans made on assets whose values have tanked. So far, all of the government's attempts to bailout homeowners have been structured as voluntary programs, and the terms that the banks require before deciding to bite have been too costly for most distressed homeowners to afford. It appears that the idea of nationalization is gaining steam in policy circles, but the Obama administration has been hesitant to use the word, perhaps wary of the reaction the proposal might get from conservatives. The New York Times reports, "President Obama's top aides have steered clear of the word entirely," and the Washington Post notes, "Administration officials are . trying to offer federal assistance to financial firms without nationalizing them outright, according to a source who has been in contact with senior Treasury officials." Obama's Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner, told Congress, "We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we'd like to do our best to preserve that system." But they may not end up with much of a choice. The Post adds: "The problem is the price of banks shares is so low now that a major investment of taxpayer money [in a recapitalization effort] would leave the government with a majority ownership stake." Barack Obama has promised a pragmatic approach to the crises facing the country. Nationalizing big, failing banks may smack of "statism," but the consequences of tinkering around the edges of the crisis are simply too dire; we've got to leave all options on the table. From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 10:45:30 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:45:30 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Monkeysphering Message-ID: <006b01c9855e$0da7f1a0$28f7d4e0$@net> It seems to me that "Monkeysphering" is "Social Networking". It removes the artificial boundaries imposed by the nation-state concept and makes us all one big family. I will somehow have to get this posted to Facebook and PLAXO of which I am a member and forming a BIGGGGGG family on both. I could never in my wildest dreams be able to make contact with and get to know the large numbers of wonderful people that I now have in my circle of influence. And, I am working to grow this circle of friends every single day. Together we can change the world in life-enhancing ways while at the same time becoming more conscious and conserving the planet's finite resources . The Internet is an extension of the quantum human computer we are. mary rose From: David West [mailto:dgwest7 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:37 AM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Monkeysphering http://twasmeanttobe.blogspot.com/ Sunday, 1 February 2009 Monkeysphering Monkeysphere is a new word, borrowed from David Wong's recent article. I hope my understanding is adequate, because it forms the basis of this extension to the monkeysphere theory. Our MONKEYSPHERE can briefly be described as our circle of acquaintances. Outside of that circle, we generally show little concern for others. However there is usually a cultural agreement that precludes one monkeysphere from upsetting its neighbours. If we consider the idea of monkeyspheres for a while, we can discover many interesting things about human development. It appears that for most of our early years, we strive to reach the centre of our monkeysphere, attempting to be popular with everyone within our monkeysphere, even though we often fail miserably. Then, somewhere around puberty, we realise that we are mistakenly trying to centre ourselves on someone else's monkeysphere. This is not our chosen monkeysphere. We are here under duress - we have a need to develop our own monkeysphere more suited to our needs, and often somewhat different to that of our parent's. Just how different is very dependent on the personalities of our parent's. If our parents are flexible they will assist in expanding and adjusting their own monkeysphere in order to incorporate our needs. But for those parents unable to make these adjustments, then their offspring will spring off, and form their own monkeysphere, over which the parents will have very little influence. Or alternatively the offspring will form it's own family which will gradually enlarge and develop the original monkeysphere. So, we can see that in a similar way the melding of two generation's monkeysphere's it is easy for one monkeysphere to meld with that of a neighbour, and as time passes physical, mental and spiritual evolution take place. The main problem with much evolution theory is that the evolution of the mind and spirit are completely ignored. In fact they are so much ignored, that the advocates of Darwin's theory omit to recognise that the starting point of the evolution of the human body is the spirit. The spirit enables mind to function, and mind is the creative force, as stated by Hermes' First Universal Law. Everything that exists on the material plane commenced life as mind. The material body is simply a means by which the mind and spirit can be expressed. There are some scientists who disagree with Darwin - they have adopted an oxymoron - "intelligent design". These people are not sufficiently intelligent to realise the truth of the simple statement above, or the true power of the mind. So, back to the evolvement theme, we can easily see how families become tribes, tribes become nations, nations become united nations, and unions become the entire world and everything in it, as a single monkeysphere. However for this to happen we all have to develop the ability to show a reasonable amount of consideration to all those outside our personal monkeysphere. If we apply the Universal Hermetic Law that states - as above, so below - we can extend this level and direction of thinking to a point were we see that the world could become united with cultures from other planets, in what some people are calling a Galactic Federation. For those who follow this line of thinking, and who probably use similar arguments to those heard during the formation of the European Union, and The United States two hundred years earlier, they can see that the forward looking people of earth should be promoting and encouraging the human race to join the Galactic Federation. Unfortunately, like all Federations, this one also has its enemies, and even more unfortunately, these enemies of the Galactic Federation have take control of our governments and major businesses. This of course accounts for all the UFO secrecy, cover ups and general hogwash - including the distorted stories surrounding the extra-terrestrial voyages of man and his machines. It also accounts for the total buffoonery that takes place in our esteemed Houses of Government, where each government's overall hidden objective is to adjust the earth's atmosphere to one more suitable for an invading force. Meanwhile, everyone's mind is kept solidly and constantly occupied with day-to-day survival, the Olympics, the American Election, the Financial Disaster, the keeping-down-with-the Joneses, sports stars proving whose got the finest touch or the biggest balls, and the constant consideration of whether we will ever lay that very attractive next door neighbour. So we are waiting for every single person on the planet to become a part of the global monkeysphere, at which time all the stupidity will cease. It would seem an impossible expectation for every person to agree, but by glancing back over our logic, we can see that if just one person in each monkeysphere could become aware of the monkeysphere theory, and could persuade the others in his/her own monkeysphere to examine the theory as an alternative to the current hopeless situation, then we could achieve our aim of a harmonious world. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 10:59:19 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:59:19 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] NATO High Commander Issues Illegitimate Order to Kill Message-ID: <007f01c9855f$fc1ff570$f45fe050$@net> As long as "drug agriculture" produces more profit from the land than does the growing of food, then more and more land will be used to grow marijuana and poppies than is used to grow food. And, with just .5% of the world's population here in the U.S. using 40% of the world's illegally-produced drugs and needing these revenues to prop up its artificially-created economy, then no amount of policing in the world is going to stop its growth. What is needed is to stop the pain that is the cause of addiction as we try to fill the hole left by the absence of soul in our society today. We-the-people need to GET REAL AND GET EARTH CONNECTED ONCE AGAIN. When the people lead the leaders will follow. (Bill Ellis) mary rose -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:36 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] NATO High Commander Issues Illegitimate Order to Kill (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) 01/28/2009 NATO High Commander Issues Illegitimate Order to Kill http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,604183,00.html By Susanne Koelbl The approach to combatting the drug mafia in Afghanistan has spurred an open rift inside NATO. According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, top NATO commander John Craddock wants the alliance to kill opium dealers, without proof of connection to the insurgency. NATO commanders, however, do not want to follow the order. A dispute has emerged among NATO High Command in Afghanistan regarding the conditions under which alliance troops can use deadly violence against those identified as insurgents. In a classified document, which SPIEGEL has obtained, NATO's top commander, US General John Craddock, has issued a "guidance" providing NATO troops with the authority "to attack directly drug producers and facilities throughout Afghanistan." According to the document, deadly force is to be used even in those cases where there is no proof that suspects are actively engaged in the armed resistance against the Afghanistan government or against Western troops. It is "no longer necessary to produce intelligence or other evidence that each particular drug trafficker or narcotics facility in Afghanistan meets the criteria of being a military objective," Craddock writes. The NATO commander has long been frustrated by the reluctance of some NATO member states -- particularly Germany -- to take aggressive action against those involved in the drug trade. Craddock rationalizes his directive by writing that the alliance "has decided that (drug traffickers and narcotics facilities) are inextricably linked to the Opposing Military Forces, and thus may be attacked." In the document, Craddock writes that the directive is the result of an October 2008 meeting of NATO defense ministers in which it was agreed that NATO soldiers in Afghanistan may attack opium traffickers. The directive was sent on Jan. 5 to Egon Ramms, the German leader at NATO Command in Brunssum, Netherlands, which is currently in charge of the NATO ISAF mission, as well as David McKiernan, the commander of the ISAF peacekeeping force in Afghanistan. Neither want to follow it. Both consider the order to be illegitimate and believe it violates both ISAF rules of engagement and international law, the "Law of Armed Conflict." A classified letter issued by McKiernan's Kabul office in response claims that Craddock is trying to create a "new category" in the rules of engagement for dealing with opposing forces that would "seriously undermine the commitment ISAF has made to the Afghan people and the international community ... to restrain our use of force and avoid civilian casualties to the greatest degree predictable." A value equivalent to 50 percent of Afghanistan's gross national product is generated through the production and trade of opium and the heroin that is derived from it. Of those earnings, at least $100 million flows each year to the Taliban and its allies, which is used to purchase weapons and pay fighters. That, at least, is the estimate given by Antonio Maria Costas, head of the UN's Office on Drugs and Crime. But the chain of people profiting from the drug trade goes a lot further -- reaching day laborers in the fields, drug laboratory workers and going all the way up to police stations, provincial governments and high-level government circles that include some with close proximity to President Hamid Karzai. If Craddock's order were to go into effect, it would lead to the addition of thousands of Afghans to the description of so-called "legitimate military targets" and could also land them on so-called targeting lists. The Taliban are still responsible for the majority of civilian victims in Afghanistan. According to a United Nations report, more than half of the approximately 2,000 citizens killed last year died as a result of suicide attacks, car bombs and fighting with extremists. Nevertheless, relations between the Americans and the local population are extremely tense due the rising number of US-led air strikes and the dramatic increase in the number of civilian casualties. Afghan villagers complain of the increase in the deaths of relatives who were mistakenly killed during military operations carried out by the Americans and their allies, such as the one carried out recently in Masamut, a village in the eastern Afghan province of Laghman. The US army announced that it had "eliminated" 32 Taliban insurgents. However, survivors claim that 13 civilians had been killed during the search for a Taliban commander. In the eyes of many Afghans the former liberators have long become ruthless occupiers. German NATO General Ramms made it perfectly clear in his answer to General Craddock that he was not prepared to deviate from the current rules of engagement for attacks, which reportedly deeply angered Craddock. The US general, who is considered a loyal Bush man and fears that he could be replaced by the new US president, has already made his intention known internally that he would like to relieve any commander who doesn't want to follow his instructions to go after the drug mafia of his duties. Back in December, Central Command in Florida, which is responsible for the US Armed Forces deployment in Afghanistan, yet again watered-down provisions in the rules of engagement for the Afghanistan deployment pertaining to the protection of civilians. According to the new rules, US forces can now bomb drug labs if they have previous analysis that the operation would not kill "more than 10 civilians." From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 14:05:25 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:05:25 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Bailed Out Bankers To Be Hauled Before Congress Message-ID: <00aa01c98579$fb993a70$f2cbaf50$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:26 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Bailed Out Bankers To Be Hauled Before Congress (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Bailed Out Bankers To Be Hauled Before Congress http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/02/frank-to-call-bailed-out_n_163158.h tml February 2, 2009 12:33 PM Rep. Barney Frank plans to call the heads of major bailed-out banks to testify before his committee next week, two aides to the House Financial Services Committee chairman said. Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, has been a vocal proponent of using federal dollars to stabilize the financial system, but has also been a harsh critic of bankers who have refused to provide Congress with information as to how the bailout funds are being used. He has also been sharply critical of the Bush administration's use of the first half of the bailout funds, charging that it failed to oversee the program properly and didn't use the funds to address the foreclosure crisis as Congress had intended. A committee aide said that the hearing, tentatively scheduled for Wednesday, Feb. 11, is still being planned and that a full witness list has yet to be compiled. Frank has long promised to bring bank heads before his committee to call on them to explain how the funds have been used. For Frank and other backers of the bailout, known as TARP, or the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the problem is that its purpose is to prevent a total collapse of the global financial system. Because of the way politics works, it's difficult to get credit for preventing harm rather than doing good. "It's like wearing dark pants and pissing down your leg," Frank said before the bailout vote in October. "It gives you a warm feeling, but no one knows you did it." Lawmakers' hope had been that the rescue package would save the financial system from collapse and also return some liquidity to the credit market. While it has (so far) prevented collapse, lending remains at low levels. Congress recently approved dispersal of the second half of the $350 billion in TARP funds. President Barack Obama is reportedly planning to tell Congress how he intends to spend that half once the stimulus bill has passed. Obama officials have indicated that more funds may well be needed beyond the original $700 billion. From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 15:06:14 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:06:14 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: What recovery means for you Message-ID: <00c501c98582$79826080$6c872180$@net> What I feel this means is "Bullshit" disguised as hamburger. While Obama is doing some good token things to try and appease people, it's obvious the bankers are still in charge; when what we need is for the people to be in charge. But that doesn't mean just anyone thinking off the top of their head from a "educated guess" or in their own best interests either. We need a system that is equitable and acts in the best Interests of all concerned, which inevitably means that not everyone is going to be happy with the system all of the time. And this means creating systemic change now. And this means getting rid of the corrupt political system we have today and instituting management by design. Management by design means management by computerized systems modeling. This means putting different variables into the system and looking at the results. Then applying those models which appear to provide for the most "life-enhancement" at all levels of the social structure. And doing so in small communities first to determine which model works best in the interests of all concerned to achieve "quality of life" in the best interests of all concerned. Undoubtedly, unintended consequences will arise, but when the application is accomplished in relatively small communities, then actions can be taken to put out the fire before the house is in ashes. Individuals need to begin to distinguish "wants" from "needs" and address the latter first. More later on this. From: President Barack Obama [mailto:info at barackobama.com] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 10:13 AM To: Mary Rose Subject: What recovery means for you Mary -- The economic crisis is growing more serious every day, and the time for action has come. Last week, the House of Representatives passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which will jumpstart our economy and put more than 3 million people back to work. I hope to sign the recovery plan into law in the next few weeks. But I need your help to spread the word and build support. It's not enough for this bill to simply pass Congress. Americans need to know how it will affect their lives -- they need to know that help is on the way and that this administration is investing in economic growth and stability. Governor Tim Kaine has agreed to record a video outlining the recovery plan and answering questions about what it means for your community. You can submit your questions online and then invite your friends, family, and neighbors to watch the video with you at an Economic Recovery House Meeting. Join thousands of people across the country by hosting or attending an Economic Recovery House Meeting this weekend. The stakes are too high to allow partisan politics to get in the way. That's why I've consulted with Republicans as well as Democrats to put together a plan that will address the crisis we face. I've also taken steps to ensure an unprecedented level of transparency and accountability. Once it's passed, you will be able to see how every penny in this plan is being spent. You can help restore confidence in our economy by making sure your friends, family, and neighbors understand how the recovery plan will impact your community. Sign up to host or attend an Economic Recovery House Meeting and submit your question for the video now: http://my.barackobama.com/recovery Our ability to come together as a nation in difficult times has never been more important. I know I can rely on your spirit and resolve as we lead our country to recovery. Thank you, President Barack Obama P.S. -- If you can't host or attend an Economic Recovery House Meeting, you can still submit your questions for Governor Kaine and then share the video with your friends and family this weekend. Learn more here: http://my.barackobama.com/recovery Paid for by Organizing for America, a project of the Democratic National Committee -- 430 South Capitol Street SE, Washington, D.C. 20003. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. This email was sent to: maryrose333 at att.net To unsubscribe, go to: http://my.barackobama.com/unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 16:06:48 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:06:48 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas Message-ID: <00df01c9858a$f08ccc30$d1a66490$@net> Maybe it's just plain time to understand the failure of a human designed political system to effectively solve problems. Maybe it's time to look at objectively-constructed computerized models to determine "what works" and "what doesn't work." Maybe it's time to transcend words like "capitalism," "communism," and "socialism" and begin again by integrating the most effective parts of each one into a new system that is life-enhancing, instead of letting "money interests" control. This is what Dr. Jay Earley's book: "Transforming Human Culture: Social Evolution and the Planetary Crisis" is about. Perhaps, Einstein's observance that problems cannot be solved by thinking in terms of the "same level that created them." Maybe it is simply time to move on into "what works" and "what doesn't work" and go with it. Recall that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Time to move out of the box folks. Reading Dr. Bruce Lipton's book: "The Biology of Belief: The science of how thoughts control life" may also help one move into another level of thought. Try it. Ask Obama to try it. It's time to move on. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:22 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas http://www.alternet.org/story/124524/in_the_face_of_economic_disaster%2C_rep ublicans_have_no_ideas_/ By Frank Rich, The New York Times. Posted February 2, 2009. Instead of trying to help figure the way out of our economic mess, Republicans are busy trying to get in the good graces of Rush Limbaugh. Here's a bottom line to keep you up at night: The economy is falling faster than Washington can get moving. President Obama says his stimulus plan will save or create four million jobs in two years. In the last four months of 2008 alone, employment fell by 1.9 million. Do the math. The abyss is widening. Of the 30 companies in the Dow Jones industrial index, 22 have announced job cuts since October. Unemployment is up in all 50 states, with layoffs at both high-tech companies (Microsoft) and low (Caterpillar). The December job loss in retailing is the worst since at least 1939. The new-home sales rate has fallen to its all-time low since record-keeping began in 1963. What are Americans still buying? Big Macs, Campbell?s soup, Hershey?s chocolate and Spam ? the four food groups of the apocalypse. The crisis is at least as grave as the one that confronted us ? and, for a time, united us ? after 9/11. Which is why the antics among Republicans on Capitol Hill seem so surreal. These are the same politicians who only yesterday smeared the patriotism of any dissenters from Bush?s ?war on terror.? Where is their own patriotism now that economic terror is inflicting far more harm on their constituents than Saddam Hussein?s nonexistent W.M.D.? The House stimulus bill is an inevitably imperfect hodgepodge-in-progress. Obama?s next move, a new plan to prevent the collapse of America?s banks, may prove more problematic still, especially given the subpar record of the new Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, in warding off calamity while at the New York Fed. No one should expect the Republicans to give the new president carte blanche, fall blindly into lock step or be ?post-partisan.? (Though that?s exactly what the G.O.P. demanded of Democrats with Bush: You were either with him or with the terrorists.) But you might think that a loyal opposition would want to pitch in and play a serious role at a time of national peril. Not by singing ?Kumbaya? but by collaborating on possible solutions and advancing a policy debate that many Americans? lives depend on. As Raymond Moley, of F.D.R.?s brain trust, said of the cross-party effort at the harrowing start of that presidency in March 1933, Hoover and Roosevelt acolytes ?had forgotten to be Republicans or Democrats? as they urgently tried to rescue their country. The current G.O.P. acts as if it ? and we ? have all the time in the world. It kept hoping in vain that the fast-waning Blago sideshow would somehow impale Obama or Rahm Emanuel. It has come perilously close to wishing aloud that a terrorist attack will materialize to discredit Obama?s reversals of Bush policy on torture, military tribunals and Gitmo. The party?s sole consistent ambition is to play petty politics to gum up the works. If anything, the Republican Congressional leadership seems to be emulating John McCain?s September stunt of ?suspending? his campaign to ?fix? the Wall Street meltdown. For all his bluster, McCain in the end had no fixes to offer and sat like a pet rock at the White House meeting on the crisis before capitulating to the bailout. His imitators likewise posture in public about their determination to take action, then do nothing while more and more Americans cry for help. The problem is not that House Republicans gave the stimulus bill zero votes last week. That?s transitory political symbolism, and it had no effect on the outcome. Some of the naysayers will vote for the revised final bill anyway (and claim, Kerry-style, that they were against it before they were for it). The more disturbing problem is that the party has zero leaders and zero ideas. It is as AWOL in this disaster as the Bush administration was during Katrina. If the country wasn?t suffering, the Republicans? behavior would be a laugh riot. The House minority leader, John Boehner, from the economic wasteland of Ohio, declared on ?Meet the Press? last Sunday that the G.O.P. didn?t want to be ?the party of ?No? ? but ?the party of better ideas, better solutions.? And what are those ideas, exactly? He said he?ll get back to us ?over the coming months.? His deputy, the Virginia congressman Eric Cantor, has followed the same script, claiming that the G.O.P. will not be ?the party of ?No? ? but will someday offer unspecified ?solutions and alternatives.? Not to be left out, the party?s great white hope, Sarah Palin, unveiled a new political action committee last week with a Web site also promising ?fresh ideas.? But as the liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas Z?niga observed, the site invites visitors to make donations and read Palin hagiography while offering no links to any ideas, fresh or otherwise. For its own contribution to this intellectual void, the Republican National Committee convened last week under a new banner, ?Republican for a Reason.? Perhaps that unidentified reason will be determined by a panel of judges on a TV reality show. It had better be brilliant given that only five states (with 20 total electoral votes) now lean red in party affiliation, according to Gallup. At this rate the G.O.P. will be in Alf Landon territory by 2012. The Republicans do have one idea, of course, but it?s hardly fresh: more and bigger tax cuts, particularly for business and the well-off. That?s the sum of their ?alternative? stimulus plan. Obama has tried to accommodate this panacea, perhaps to a fault. Mainstream economists in both parties believe that tax cuts in the stimulus package will deliver far less bang for the buck than, say, infrastructure spending. The tax-cut stimulus embraced a year ago by the G.O.P. induced next-to-no consumer spending as Americans merely banked the savings or paid down debt. We also now know conclusively that the larger Bush tax cuts, besides running up record deficits and exacerbating income inequality, were also at best a placebo on our road to ruin. In a January survey of economists, including former McCain advisers like Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Mark Zandi, The Washington Post determined that the job growth the Bush administration kept bragging about (?52 straight months!?) was a mirage inflated by the housing bubble. Job growth ? about 2 percent ? was in fact the most tepid of any eight-year period ?since data collection began seven decades ago.? Gross domestic product grew at a slower pace than in any eight years since the Truman administration. But even if tax cuts alone could jump-start a recovery, they couldn?t do the heavy lifting that Obama has promised and the country desperately needs: a down payment on a new economy to replace our dilapidated 20th-century model and bring back long-term growth. The Republicans don?t acknowledge the need for this transformation, or debate it in good conscience, preferring instead to hyperventilate over the contraceptives in a small family-planning program since removed from the stimulus bill. All it takes is the specter of condoms for the party of Vitter, Foley and Craig to go gaga. The Republicans? other preoccupation remains Rush Limbaugh, who is by default becoming their de facto leader. While most Americans are fearing fear itself, G.O.P. politicians are tripping over themselves in morbid terror of Rush. These pratfalls commenced after Obama casually told some Republican congressmen (correctly) that they won?t ?get things done? if they take their orders from Limbaugh. That?s all the stimulus the big man needed to go on a new bender of self-aggrandizement. He boasted that Obama is ?more frightened? of him than he is of the Republican leaders in the House or Senate. He said of the new president, ?I hope he fails.? Obama no doubt finds Limbaugh?s grandiosity more amusing than frightening, but G.O.P. politicians are shaking like Jell-O. When asked by Andrea Mitchell of NBC News on Wednesday if he shared Limbaugh?s hope that Obama fails, Eric Cantor spun like a top before running off, as it happened, to appear on Limbaugh?s radio show. Mike Pence of Indiana, No. 3 in the Republican House leadership, similarly squirmed when asked if he agreed with Limbaugh. Though the Republicans? official, poll-driven line is that they want Obama to succeed, they?d rather abandon that disingenuous nicety than cross Rush. Most pathetic of all was Phil Gingrey, a right-wing Republican congressman from Georgia, who mildly criticized both Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to Politico because they ?stand back and throw bricks? while lawmakers labor in the trenches. So many called Gingrey?s office to complain that the poor congressman begged Limbaugh to bring him on air to publicly recant on Wednesday. As Gingrey abjectly apologized to talk radio?s commandant for his ?stupid comments? and ?foot-in-mouth disease,? he sounded like the inmate in a B-prison-movie cowering before the warden after a failed jailbreak. ?It?s up to me to hijack the Obama honeymoon,? Limbaugh soon gloated, ?and I?ve done it.? In his dreams. He has hijacked what?s left of the Republican Party; the Obama honeymoon remains intact. The nightmare is that we have so irrelevant, clownish and childish an opposition party at a moment when America is in an all-hands-on-deck emergency that?s as trying as war. To paraphrase a dictum that has been variously attributed to two of our most storied leaders in times of great challenge, Thomas Paine and George Patton, the Republicans should either lead, follow or get out of the grown-ups? way. From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 2 17:36:36 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:36:36 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: High Fructose Foods Contaminated With Toxic Mercury + Message-ID: <00f001c98597$7bc84c50$7358e4f0$@net> Not only is HFCS a source of mercury in our food supply but seafood is also, so one needs to research the statistics on this and add it into the total. And, just as deadly, if perhaps not more so, are meat, milk and dairy products which are loaded with dioxin, the deadliest chemical known to humankind. As revealed by John Robbins in his book: ?The Food Revolution? one scoop of Ben and Jerry?s ice cream, when tested, contained ?level?s of dioxin in a sample serving 2,200 times the level of dioxin allowed in a serving of wastewater discharged into the San Francisco Bay from the Tosco Refinery.? Dioxin tends to concentrate in the fatty tissue of animals, and thus becomes part of our food supply when consumed. That the commercial food supply is contaminated with many toxins is becoming more and more obvious . For further researched and validated information on this, keep a copy of Robbin?s book handy for reference along with a computer notebook where you can store other articles such as this one. The Transition Movement needs to keep this information available on their website. I Will also ensure that FutureDawning.org has information such as this readily available when the site is launched. Be aware!!!! The life you save may be your own and your loved ones. m r Research: High Fructose Corn Syrup Contaminated With Toxic Mercury NaturalNews) New research published in Environmental Health and conducted in part by a scientist at the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy has revealed that high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is contaminated with the toxic heavy metal mercury. That means that many of the products using HFCS may also be contaminated with mercury. Carbonated sodas are sweetened with HFCS, as are candy bars, bread, salad dressings, pizza sauce, fruit drinks and thousands of other grocery items. Mercury is so highly toxic that it causes severe neurological disorders. It can also result in the loss of hair, teeth and nails as well as muscle weakness, loss of kidney function, emotional mood swings and memory impairment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercur...) (P.S. Somebody please update this Wikipedia page with this latest research about HFCS being a source for mercury exposure, too.) The highest level of contamination found in the study (http://www.ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2) was 0.57 micrograms of mercury per gram of HFCS. The EPA says that an average-sized woman should consume no more than 5.5 micrograms per day of mercury, meaning that the average American consumer may be eating five times the upper safety limit of mercury every day due to high-fructose corn syrup consumption if they consume the foods tested in the study. That's because the average American consumes 12 teaspoons of HFCS every day! So just by eating the standard American diet of processed foods, consumers are right now potentially exposing themselves to exceedingly high levels of mercury that far surpass the safety limits set by the EPA. Buy groceries, get free mercury!High-fructose corn syrup is used in almost everything, it seems. A second study conducted by David Wallinga, M.D., entitled "Not So Sweet: Missing Mercury and High Fructose Corn Syrup" (http://healthobservatory.org/librar...) reveals that nearly one-third of all grocery items sweetened with HFCS were contaminated with mercury. Eating some sweetened yogurt? Mercury! How about some salad dressing with HFCS? Mercury! Want some ketchup on that burger? Mercury! In fact, mercury is found in thousands of grocery products sold across the world right now. And it's no exaggeration to say that mainstream consumers of popular food items are likely suffering from widespread mercury poisoning (especially if you add in the mercury exposure they're getting from dental fillings). Where does all the mercury come from?Most people don't know how high-fructose corn syrup is really made. One of those processes is a bizarre chemical brew involving the creation of caustic soda by exposing raw materials to pools of electrified mercury in a large vat. Through this process, the caustic soda gets contaminated with mercury, and when corn kernels are exposed to this caustic soda to break them down, that contamination is passed through to the HFCS. Another toxic chemical, glutaraldehyde, is also used in the production of HFCS. It's so toxic that consuming even a small amount of it can burn a hole in your stomach. But don't worry: The Corn Refiners Association insists that HFCS is a "natural" ingredient, and their Chicago-based PR firm Weber Shandwick is now also claiming that HFCS has been declared "natural" by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. It hasn't really, of course, but that doesn't stop the press releases from claiming it has. (If you think a liquid sugar processed with glutaraldehyde and contaminated with mercury is "natural," then you've been duped. There's nothing natural about a processed food ingredient made with toxic chemicals.) A Weber Shandwick representative calls me every time I post an article about HFCS, by the way, usually with demands that I remove the entire article. I've invited the Corn Refiners Association to a phone interview to defend their position that HFCS doesn't cause diabetes or obesity, and to answer questions about whether HFCS is really "natural." So far, they have declined to be interviewed. It seems they don't want to face real questions from an honest journalist who refuses to be censored by powerful corporations. One thing I've got to say about the Corn Refiners Association is that they have a well-funded PR machine running around the internet trying to make everybody remove stories that say anything negative about HFCS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Foods and Products Containing High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) 06/09/05 @ 07:10:25 am, by Kate Hopkins 212778 views ? Categories: Food, High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS), Food Health and Safety I went out on the Internet yesterday, to see if there was a list of foods with High Fructose Corn Syrup as part of their ingredients list. Imagine my surprise when I found that no comprehensive list existed. Rather than lament the fact that no list existed, I've decided we can create one ourselves. I will maintain this list on this site, and have it easily accessible at all times (I'll probably link to it in the "Navigation" box). This list is not meant to be an indictment of HFCS, at least not yet. We'll wait until more tests have been announced to make our determination on the guilt or lack thereof of HFCS on obesity and other health issues. But I feel that such a list is indeed warranted, for information purposes. Feel free to comment and leave any products not yet listed. This will be an ongoing project. (For a list of HFCS products found at Fast Food Restaurants, click here or here.) Baking and Cooking ingredients Kellogg's(R) Corn Flake Crumbs Nabisco Oreo Cookie Crumbs Shake n Bake - Tangy Honey Glaze Shake n Bake - Honey Mustard Glaze Stove Top Stuffing - Chicken Stove Top Stuffing - Cornbread Stove Top Stuffing - Homestyle Herb Stove Top Stuffing - Pork Stove Top Stuffing - Turkey Beverages: A&W Root Beer Capri-Sun Iced Tea Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Fruit Punch Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Grape Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Lemonade Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Mountain Cooler Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Orange Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Pacific Cooler Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Red Berry Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Splash Cooler Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Strawberry Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Strawberry/Kiwi Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Surfer Cooler Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Tropical Punch Capri-Sun Juice Drink - Wild Cherry Capri-Sun Refreshers - Orange Dragonfruit Capri-Sun Refreshers - Rasberry Passionfruit Capri-Sun Refreshers - Strawberry/Kiwi Capri-Sun Refreshers - Tropical Fruit Capri-Sun Sport Drink - Berry Ice Capri-Sun Sport Drink - Clear Cherry Chill Capri-Sun Sport Drink - Light Speed Lemon Lime Capri-Sun Sport Drink - Orange Edge Capri-Sun Sport Drink - Thunder Punch Coca-Cola Darigold Chocolate Milk Hanson's All-Natural Soda (all flavors) Hanson's Tonic Water Jones Soda Newman's Own Pink Lemonade Ocean Spray Cranberry Juice Orangenia Pepsi PowerAde Snapple -Cranberry Raspberry Juice Drink Sprite Starbucks' Frappuccino Thomas Kemper Soda's Tropicana OrangeAde Tropicana Smoothies Village Lemonade Breads: Brownberry Breads Pepperidge Farm's line of 100% whole grain breads Sara Lee Heart Healthy Whole Grain Bread. Thomas English Muffins Wonderbread Breakfast Cereals Kellogg's Frosted Rice Krispies(R) Kellogg's Tony's Cinnamon Krunchers? Kellogg's Corn Flakes(R) Kellogg's Frosted Flakes(R) Kellogg's Smorz(R) Kellogg's Special K(R) Red Berries Kellogg's All-Bran(R) Bran Buds?(R) Kellogg's All-Bran(R) Extra Fiber Kellogg's All-Bran(R) Original Kellogg's Apple Jacks(R) Kellogg's Cinnamon Crunch Crispix? Kellogg's Cocoa Krispies(R) Kellogg's Complete(R) Oat Bran Flakes Kellogg's Complete(R) Wheat Bran Flakes Kellogg's Fruit Harvest? Strawberry Blueberry Kellogg's Honey Crunch Corn Flakes(R) Kellogg's Kellogg's Crunchy Blends? Just Right(R) Fruit & Nut Kellogg's Kellogg's Crunchy Blends? Low Fat Granola without Raisins Kellogg's Kellogg's Crunchy Blends? Low Fat Granola With Raisins Kellogg's Mini-Wheats(R) Frosted Bite Size Kellogg's Mini-Wheats(R) Frosted Original Kellogg's Mini-Wheats(R) Strawberry Kellogg's Crunchy Blends? Mueslix(R) with Raisins, Dates & Almonds Kellogg's Product 19(R) Kellogg's Raisin Bran Kellogg's Raisin Bran Crunch(R) Kellogg's Rice Krispies Treats(R) Cereal Kellogg's Rice Krispies(R) Kellogg's Smart Start Antioxidants Kellogg's Smart Start(R) Soy Protein Kellogg's Special K(R) Kellogg's Special K(R) Vanilla Almond Kellogg's Fruit Harvest? Peach Strawberry Kellogg's SpongeBob SquarePants? Cereal Kellogg's Corn Flakes(R) with Real Bananas Kellogg's Spider-man? Spidey-Berry Cereal Kellogg's Kellogg's Frosted Flakes(R) 1/3 Less Sugar Kellogg's Special K(R) low carb lifestyle Kellogg's Fruit Harvest? Banana Berry Kellogg's Disney Pixar Finding Nemo? Cereal Kellogg's All-Bran? Bars Honey Oat Kellogg's All-Bran? Bars Brown Sugar Cinnamon Kellogg's Disney Pixar The Incredibles? Kellogg's Tiger Power Kellogg's Smart Start(R) Healthy Heart Kellogg's Disney Lilo & Stitch? Kellogg's Special K(R) Fruit & Yogurt Kellogg's Mini Swirlz? Fudge Ripple Kellogg's Toasted Honey Crunch? Kellogg's Cran-Vanilla Crunch? Post Blueberry Morning Cereal Breakfast Pastries Eggo(R) Pancakes Buttermilk Eggo(R) Waf-Fulls? Blueberry Eggo(R) Waf-Fulls? Strawberry Candy Bars: Hershey's Watchamacallit Lifesavers - Butter Rum Lifesavers - Chill-o-mints Lifesavers - Cryst-o-mint Lifesavers - Five Flavor Value Pack Lifesavers - Hard Candy Sours Lifesavers - Sours Lifesavers - Tropical Fruits Lifesavers - Wild Berries Lifesavers - Wild Cherry Optimum Opti-Pro Meal Lite Bar PowerBar Condiments: Heinz 57 Sauce Heinz Ketchup Hunt's Catsup Miracle Whip Cookies and Cakes: Kellogg's Rice Krispies Treats(R) Squares Caramel Chocolatey Chunk Kellogg's Rice Krispies Treats(R) Squares Original Kellogg's Rice Krispies Treats(R) Squares Rainbow Kellogg's Cereal & Milk Bars Frosted Flakes(R) Kellogg's Cereal & Milk Bars Cocoa Krispies(R) Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Hot Fudge Sundae Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Spider-man? Spidey-Berry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Apple Cinnamon Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Blueberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Brown Sugar Cinnamon Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Chocolate Chip Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Blueberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Brown Sugar Cinnamon Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Cherry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Chocolate Fudge Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Chocolate Vanilla Creme Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Grape Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Raspberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted S'Mores Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Strawberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Wild Berry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Low Fat Frosted Brown Sugar Cinnamon Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Star Wars? Frosted Lava Berry Explosion Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Caramel Chocolate Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Frosted Cookies & Creme Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Cinnamon Roll Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Low Fat Frosted Chocolate Fudge Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Low Fat Frosted Strawberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Strawberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Yogurt Blasts Blueberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Yogurt Blasts Strawberry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) French Toast Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) SpongeBob SquarePants? Wild Bubble-Berry Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Kellogg's Pop-Tarts(R) The Incredibles Incrediberry Blast Nabisco Barnum's Animal Crackers Nabsico Chips Ahoy Nabisco Fig Newtons Nabisco Fig Newtons - Fat Free Nabisco Fig Newtons - Whole Grain Nabisco Honey Maid Graham Crackers Nabisco Lorna Dornes Nabisco Nilla Wafers Nabisco Nutter Butter Nabisco Mallomars Nabisco Oreo Cookies Nabisco Snackwells - Creme Sandwich Nabisco Teddy Grahams Nutri-Grain Twists? Apple Cobbler Nutri-Grain Twists? Cappuccino & Creme Nutri-Grain Twists? Strawberry Cheesecake Nutri-Grain(R) Muffin Bars Banana Nutri-Grain(R) Muffin Bars Cinnamon Raisin Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Apple Cinnamon Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Blueberry Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Cherry Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Mixed Berry Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Raspberry Nutri-Grain(R) Cereal Bars Strawberry Nutri-Grain(R) Chewy Granola Bars Honey Oat & Raisin Nutri-Grain(R) Chewy Granola Bars Chocolatey Chunk Nutri-Grain(R) Chewy Granola Bites Chocolatey Chip Nutri-Grain(R) Minis Yogurt Icing Blueberry Nutri-Grain(R) Minis Yogurt Icing Strawberry Nutri-Grain(R) Yogurt Bars Strawberry Yogurt Nutri-Grain(R) Yogurt Bars Vanilla Yogurt Nutri-Grain(R) Muffin Bars Blueberry Nutri-Grain(R) Chewy Granola Bites Caramel Nut Crunch Grandma's Homestyle Peanut Butter Cookies Cough Syrups: Delsym 12 Hour Cough Suppressant for Children, Orange Delsym 12 Hour Cough Suppressant, Orange Delsym Cough Suppressant Children's Dimetapp Decongestant Infant Drops Children's Dimetapp Decongestant Plus Cough Infant Drops Robitussin Infant Cough DM Robitussin Infant Cough & Cold CF Robitussin DM Cough Relief Infant Drops, Fruit Punch Robitussin Pediatric Cough & Cold Formula Robitussin Pediatric Cough Long-Acting Robitussin Pediatric Cough & Cold Long-Acting Robitussin Maximum Strength Cough & Cold Robitussin Head & Chest Congestion PE Robitussin Cough DM Robitussin PE Nasal Decongestant and Expectorant Robitussin Cough, Cold & Flu Nighttime Robitussin Chest Congestion Guaifenesin Syrup, USP Robitussin Cough & Congestion Robitussin Cough Long-Acting Robitussin Honey Cough Natural Cough Drops, Honey Center Vicks NyQuil multi-symptom - original Vicks NyQuil multi-symptom - cherry Vicks NyQuil Cough Vicks Formula 44 Cough Vicks Formula 44 Expectorant Vicks Formula 44 Decongestant Vicks Formula 44 Mult-symptom Pediatric Vicks 44E Cough & Congestion Pediatric Vicks 44M Cough & Cold Vicks Casero Crackers: Kraft Cheese Nips Nabisco Harvest Crisps - Wheat Thins 5 Grain Nabisco Ritz Bits - Peanut Butter Nabisco Ritz Bits - Graham Cracker S'mores Nabisco Ritz Chips - Cheddar - Oven-Toasted Crunch Nabisco Ritz Crackers Nabisco Ritz Crackers - Low Sodium Nabisco Sociables Nabisco Wheat Thins Nabisco Wheat Thins - Baked Nabisco Wheat Thins - Low Sodium Nabisco Wheat Thins - Multi-Grain Nabisco Wheat Thins - Ranch Nabisco Wheat Thins - Reduced Fat Dairy: Breakstones Cottage Cheese & Toppings - Peach Breakstones Cottage Cheese & Toppings - Pineapple Breyer's Yogurt -Fruit on the Bottom - Strawberry Lowfat Cool Whip Cool Whip - Extra-Creamy Cool Whip - Lite Knudsen - Cottage Double (Peach) Knudsen - Cottage Double (Pineapple) Knudsen - Cottage Double (Strawberry) Yoplait Yogurts Drink Mixers: Saratoga Salsa Bloody Mare Mix (spelling is correct) El Paso Chili Key Lime Margarita Mix Frozen Foods: Fruits and Vegetables: B&M Original Baked Beans Contadina Tomato Paste Claussen Pickles - Bread and Butter Chips Claussen Pickles - Kosher Dill Burger Slices Claussen Pickles - Sweet Gherkins Claussen Pickle Relish Del Monte canned petite diced tomatoes with italian seasonings Del Monte Fruit Naturals Red Grapefruit Heinz Pickle Relish Mott's Applesauce Mt. Olive Sweet Relish Mt. Olive Bread and Butter Pickles Ocean Spray Jellied Cranberry Sauce Ice Creams Ben & Jerry's - Chubby Hubby (HFCS and Transfat!) - Should we call it Very Chubby Hubby? Ben & Jerry's - Cherry Garcia Ben & Jerry's - Neapolitan Dynamite Ben & Jerry's - Cherry Garcia Body & Soul Ben & Jerry's - Cherry Garcia Low Fat Frozen Yogurt Pints Ben & Jerry's - Cherry Garcia Original Ice Cream Singles Dreyer's - Girl Scouts Samoas Cookie Ice Cream Dreyer's - Almond Praline Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Cherry Chocolate Chip Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Cherry Vanilla Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Cookies 'N Cream Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Dulce de Leche Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Nestle Toll House Cookie Swirl Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Spumoni Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Toffee Bar Crunch Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Turtle Sundae Grand Ice Cream Dreyer's - Ultimate Caramel Cup Grand Ice Cream Jams, Jellies, and Syrups Eggo? Syrup Original Syrup Eggo? Syrup Buttery Syrup Eggo? Syrup Lite Syrup Hershey's Chocolate Syrup Knott's Boysenberry preserves Smucker's Grape Jelly Meats Oscar Meyer Pickle and Pimento Loaf Pastries Nabisco Nilla Wafer Pie Crust Nabisco Oreo Pie Crust Jello No-Bake - Chips Ahoy Jello No-Bake - Oreo Pepperidge Farm's Puff Pastry sheets Salad Dressings: Emeril's Italian Vinegrette Kraft Salad Dressing - Light done Right Creamy French Kraft Salad Dressing - Thousand Island Fat Free Maple Grove Farms Caesar Fat Free Miracle Whip Salad Dressing Miracle Whip Salad Dressing - Hot n Spicy Miracle Whip Salad Dressing - Light Miracle Whip Salad Dressing - Light Super Easy Squeeze Miracle Whip Salad Dressing - Non-fat Miracle Whip Salad Dressing - Super Easy Squeeze Wishbone Ranch Dressing Wish-Bone Classic Caesar Sauces: A1 Steak Sauce Marinade - Cajun A1 Steak Sauce Marinade - Chicago A1 Steak Sauce Marinade - Teriyaki Bull's Eye BBQ Sauce Bull's Eye BBQ Sauce - Honey Smoke Bull's Eye BBQ Sauce - Smokehouse Hickory Bull's Eye BBQ Sauce - Sweet Hickory Smoke Bull's Eye BBQ Sauce - Texas Style Mesquite Crazy Jerry's Alotta Bull BBQ Sauce - Torrid Toro (Hot Holy Smoke - Sticky Wings Glaze Holy Smoke - Bar B Q Glaze Jim Beam Steak Sauce Jim Beam Herb & Garlic Gourmet Marinade Jim Beam Lemon & Herb Gourmet Marinade Kraft Barbecue Sauce Penn State Nittany Lions Lime Grilling Sauce Pork Rubbers Original Competition BBQ Sauce Tuttorosso Marinara Tuttorosso Three Cheese Tuttorosso Traditional Tuttorosso Flavored With Meat Tuttorosso Mushroom Tuttorosso Tomato & Basil Tuttorosso Tomato, Olive & Garlic Virginia Gentleman Bourbon BBQ Sauce Snacks: Kraft Philadelphia Cream Cheese Strawberry Cheesecake Bar Kraft Philadelphia Cream Cheese Chocolate covered Strawberry Cheesecake Bar Oscar Mayer Lunchables - All Star Burgers Oscar Mayer Lunchables - All-star Hot Dogs Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Chicken Dunks Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Chicken Strips Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Cracker Stackers Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Nachos Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Peanut Butter Pile-ups Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Pizza Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Pizza Dunks Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Pizza Pile-ups Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Pizza Stix Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Pizza Swirls Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Tacos Soups Campbells Vegatable soup (in microwaveable bowl) http://www.accidentalhedonist.com/index.php/2005/06/09/foods_and_products_co ntaining_high_fruct -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 3 02:08:08 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:08:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] The Cause of the Recession In-Reply-To: <76e6e1510902021621u320e280gf8483e068e00a955@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <244467.43368.qm@web27405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/2/09, Arian F. Nevin wrote: From: Arian F. Nevin Subject: [socialcredit] The Cause of the Recession To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 12:21 AM (NaturalNews) Every day there is news of jobs lost and businesses closing. These lost jobs and closed businesses are not being replaced by new jobs and businesses. Unemployment is increasing. Only two years ago our situation was not like this. What has changed? Why are we heading steadily into a depression? What is the cause? An economy is not based on money or finance, though most people believe it is. The ultimate basis of an economy is entirely physical. An economy is ultimately based on the production of physical wealth. Without first having adequate food and energy production, none of our other economic activities would even be possible. What is the physical change causing the economy to crash? Has there been a destructive flood or drought? Have we run out of iron in the earth? Are all the trees gone? Did a massive earthquake destroy all our factories? None of the above is the cause. Nothing physical has changed to cause our economy to decline. We have all the factories we need to produce. We have the energy, materials, and the know-how to make what we want. We have plenty of people willing to work. Despite this, the economy is crumbling and unemployment is ever increasing. The economy is going bad due to faulty financial systems and human conventions. It should be axiomatic that what is physically possible would also be financially possible. Money is not a physically limiting factor to production. Money is simply a means by which we exchange physical goods and services. It allows us to advance beyond barter. It is not a raw material used in the physical production of anything. We do not use money in the production of cars or apples. The production of both is entirely physical. Money is not built into a car seat or used to fertilize an apple tree. The economy continues to decline solely because the money and economic system are not properly understood and structured. If we had the proper systems and a correct understanding of the relationship between money and physical wealth, the economy would immediately begin to improve. Physically we are capable of improving the economy right now. Economists claim to understand the economy. If they do, why is there a recession? People in government claim to know what they are doing. If they do, why is there a recession? Perhaps if economists and politicians knew what they were doing, we would not be in this position. Logically, the economy should improve over time as technology advances, yet it is getting worse with time. Economists like to pretend that the economy is like the weather, sometimes good and sometimes bad. There are bad spots we just have to endure. Why? There is no physical reason. Our ability to work and produce has not changed at all. The dishonest money system causes economic instability resulting in cycles of boom and bust. The simple solution to the problems caused by the dishonest money system is an honest money system. Since money is necessary to exchange goods and services, the flow of money is critical to the economy. When the money stops flowing, the economy stops moving. Banks control the flow of money. Banks benefit from the flow of money through the interest they charge for the money they create and lend. When banks stop lending, money stops flowing, and the economy grinds to a halt. This is exactly what has happened. This is what is meant by the term "credit crunch." Lord Acton is best known for saying, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Banks have absolute power over the money system. Banks create and destroy money as they please. Our entire money system, which should exist for the benefit of the community, exists instead for banks to make loans and charge us interest. So long as the purpose of the money system is to allow banks to maximize their profits through the creation of debt and money, our economic decline will continue. Booms and busts are integral to a money system and an economy set up for the benefit of banks. The interests of the people and the interests of banks are in direct opposition to one another. Our way to prosperity is the elimination of the money and debt cycle banks inflict upon us. Lord Acton also said, "The issue which has swept down the centuries, and must be fought sooner or later, is the people versus the banks." We are living in interesting times, and this issue will finally have to be fought and resolved in our lifetime. Banks clearly recognize their interests and fight to protect them. The banks have been so successful at this that the government, through the Treasury Secretary, acts in their interest. We, like the banks, must also recognize our interests and fight to protect them. We can remain debt slaves to the banks, and continue to struggle just to survive or we can demand the government provide an honest money system, and thereby become economically free. About the author Arian Forrest Nevin, J.D. is the author of National Economy: The Way to Abundance. National Economy presents an immediate solution the worldwide economic crisis. National Economy is the study of how a nation, rather than an individual, can be made wealthy. It explains how all manufacturing that has moved to other countries and all jobs that have been outsourced can be returned to America, how real wages can be dramatically increased, and how, at the same time, the people can have more leisure. His website is http://www.nationaleconomy.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 3 02:11:12 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <100410.54805.qm@web27401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/2/09, helge nome wrote: From: helge nome Subject: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column To: "Dave Ryder" , "Earl Solberg" , "Edwin Erickson" , "Ellen Brown" , "Gordon Barrett" , "Grahame West" , "Jim Doody" , "Jim Schroeder" , "John Rawson" , "Larry Heather" , "Laverne Ahlstrom" , "Len Skowronski" , "Martin Hattersley" , "Michaeljournal SC" , "Michel Chossudovsky" , "Murray Fuhrer" , "Tore Nordahl" , "Trevor Grover" , "Wilf Tricker" , "Socialcreditlist" , "Bob Taft" Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 10:31 PM #yiv1313101367 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1313101367 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} It's time to say it as it is. This column will be published in the Mountaineer newspaper in Central Alberta, Canada this week. Regards, Helge Pen Meets Paper Opinion by Helge Nome There are some of us that watch the massive infusion of public funds into the economy with consternation. The conservatives and liberals in Canada have jumped on the bandwagon with the U.S. and hordes of other national governments across the globe in taxing our future, and that of our children, to prop up people that have committed fraud in the financial sector of our economies. The net result of this process will be that real wealth, owned by average people, will be transferred to people that created fraudulent finacial paper (toxic assets). They now stand to gain real assets in return for their ?pies in the sky? worthless paper. And our politicians, acting in panic, and with their own rewards in mind, are selling us out. No; they are giving our wealth away to a bunch of crooks. The art of creating bursting bubbles in financial markets is as old as the hills. Its success relies on the ignorance and greed of people and on their lack of historical knowledge: What has happened this last year is a replay of 1929, leading up to the stock market crash at that time. A lack of effective regulation and frenzied euphoric market activity is a one way street to a crash. And everybody in the financial world knows it. Finance is their trade, after all, and they are not stupid. They have been there before, or their mentors have. So the long and short of it is that we have been had, literally. By people who know better but have chosen their course of action to rob us of our wealth. They think we are too disorganized and ignorant to stand up to them. In the United States the systematic deregulation of financial markets has taken place over the lifetime of several administrations: Reagan, Bush senior, Clinton and Bush junior. Their dirty work is now done and wealth is set to flow into the hands of their masters. If you want to know what is ahead, please google ?Iceland Newspapers? to see what my poor fellow norsemen are experiencing right now. And they are just the tip of the iceberg. There have also been riots in both Britain and France that have not been reported in the North American mainstream media so you know who they belong to. Will the stimulus budget work in Canada? No. We are just the caboose on the American train heading down the hill at full speed. Twice the fun? Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 3 02:38:33 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:38:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Dead Aid.......................... Message-ID: <430710.21958.qm@web27406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ? Dear All, ? ?????????? The following may be of interest............. ? ? >From The Sunday Times February 1, 2009 Dead Aid: Why Aid is Not Working and How There Is Another Way for Africa by Dambisa Moyo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 3 04:00:24 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:00:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] The Cause of the Recession In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <428228.61478.qm@web27408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/2/09, helge nome wrote: From: helge nome Subject: RE: [socialcredit] The Cause of the Recession To: "Socialcreditlist" Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 6:04 AM #yiv733671991 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv733671991 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Well put Arian, and welcome to the common cause. Helge > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:21:11 -0600 > From: afnafn at gmail.com > To: socialcredit at elistas.com > Subject: [socialcredit] The Cause of the Recession > > (NaturalNews) Every day there is news of jobs lost and businesses > closing. These lost jobs and closed businesses are not being replaced > by new jobs and businesses. Unemployment is increasing. Only two years > ago our situation was not like this. What has changed? Why are we > heading steadily into a depression? What is the cause? > > An economy is not based on money or finance, though most people > believe it is. The ultimate basis of an economy is entirely physical. > An economy is ultimately based on the production of physical wealth. > Without first having adequate food and energy production, none of our > other economic activities would even be possible. > > What is the physical change causing the economy to crash? Has there > been a destructive flood or drought? Have we run out of iron in the > earth? Are all the trees gone? Did a massive earthquake destroy all > our factories? None of the above is the cause. Nothing physical has > changed to cause our economy to decline. We have all the factories we > need to produce. We have the energy, materials, and the know-how to > make what we want. We have plenty of people willing to work. Despite > this, the economy is crumbling and unemployment is ever increasing. > > The economy is going bad due to faulty financial systems and human > conventions. It should be axiomatic that what is physically possible > would also be financially possible. Money is not a physically limiting > factor to production. Money is simply a means by which we exchange > physical goods and services. It allows us to advance beyond barter. It > is not a raw material used in the physical production of anything. We > do not use money in the production of cars or apples. The production > of both is entirely physical. Money is not built into a car seat or > used to fertilize an apple tree. The economy continues to decline > solely because the money and economic system are not properly > understood and structured. If we had the proper systems and a correct > understanding of the relationship between money and physical wealth, > the economy would immediately begin to improve. Physically we are > capable of improving the economy right now. > > Economists claim to understand the economy. If they do, why is there a > recession? People in government claim to know what they are doing. If > they do, why is there a recession? Perhaps if economists and > politicians knew what they were doing, we would not be in this > position. Logically, the economy should improve over time as > technology advances, yet it is getting worse with time. > > Economists like to pretend that the economy is like the weather, > sometimes good and sometimes bad. There are bad spots we just have to > endure. Why? There is no physical reason. Our ability to work and > produce has not changed at all. The dishonest money system causes > economic instability resulting in cycles of boom and bust. The simple > solution to the problems caused by the dishonest money system is an > honest money system. > > Since money is necessary to exchange goods and services, the flow of > money is critical to the economy. When the money stops flowing, the > economy stops moving. Banks control the flow of money. Banks benefit > from the flow of money through the interest they charge for the money > they create and lend. When banks stop lending, money stops flowing, > and the economy grinds to a halt. This is exactly what has happened. > This is what is meant by the term "credit crunch." > > Lord Acton is best known for saying, "Power tends to corrupt, and > absolute power corrupts absolutely." Banks have absolute power over > the money system. Banks create and destroy money as they please. Our > entire money system, which should exist for the benefit of the > community, exists instead for banks to make loans and charge us > interest. So long as the purpose of the money system is to allow banks > to maximize their profits through the creation of debt and money, our > economic decline will continue. Booms and busts are integral to a > money system and an economy set up for the benefit of banks. The > interests of the people and the interests of banks are in direct > opposition to one another. Our way to prosperity is the elimination of > the money and debt cycle banks inflict upon us. > > Lord Acton also said, "The issue which has swept down the centuries, > and must be fought sooner or later, is the people versus the banks." > We are living in interesting times, and this issue will finally have > to be fought and resolved in our lifetime. Banks clearly recognize > their interests and fight to protect them. The banks have been so > successful at this that the government, through the Treasury > Secretary, acts in their interest. We, like the banks, must also > recognize our interests and fight to protect them. We can remain debt > slaves to the banks, and continue to struggle just to survive or we > can demand the government provide an honest money system, and thereby > become economically free. > > > About the author > Arian Forrest Nevin, J.D. is the author of National Economy: The Way > to Abundance. National Economy presents an immediate solution the > worldwide economic crisis. National Economy is the study of how a > nation, rather than an individual, can be made wealthy. It explains > how all manufacturing that has moved to other countries and all jobs > that have been outsourced can be returned to America, how real wages > can be dramatically increased, and how, at the same time, the people > can have more leisure. > His website is http://www.nationaleconomy.net > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium > You're subscribed to this list with the email helgenome at hotmail.com > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit The new Windows Live Messenger. You don?t want to miss this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 3 20:47:36 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:47:36 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] THE 'MODEST' DIFFERENCES.... Message-ID: <008b01c9867b$573cedc0$05b6c940$@net> Instead of individual politicians squabbling over "moderate differences" the way to do this is through computer modeling and let objectivity make the decisions in the best interests of all concerned. Politicians make decisions based on what is likely to keep them in office the longest, not on what is best for the country as a whole. And, this is no way to run a country. m r -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:03 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] THE 'MODEST' DIFFERENCES.... (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) "the minority party voted en masse against a rescue package during a recession due to differences that amounted to well under 1% of the bill's cost." THE 'MODEST' DIFFERENCES.... http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_02/016718.php Sitting alongside the Republican vice chairman of the National Governors Association this morning, President Obama said policymakers can't "let very modest differences get in the way of the overall [stimulus] package moving forward swiftly." How "modest"? The White House added some details to this in its press briefing. Sam Stein reports: Underscoring the reality that GOP opposition to the stimulus seems firmly entrenched, the Obama administration mounted a more aggressive stance in favor of the recovery package, stating on Monday that there is little time left for quibbling. "Delay in this town may not mean much," said press secretary Robert Gibbs. "But delay in America means that the help the American people need right now won't get there as quickly as they need it to." Gibbs stressed on several occasion that the areas of difference between the president and Republicans in Congress were minor, noting that if one accumulated the spending provisions that the GOP objected to you would get $669 million, or "7/100ths of 1 percent of a piece of legislation." It's a point worth considering in more detail. Last week, when House Republicans were expressing their unanimous opposition to an economic rescue package, they got at least somewhat specific about the spending they saw as "wasteful." According to a McClatchy article, GOP lawmakers had identified $5.89 billion it wanted to see removed from the legislation. According to a list put together by the office of a House GOP lawmaker, the figure was even lower than that: $3.51 billion. We're talking about an $819 billion spending package. Putting aside the merit of the provisions Republicans found offensive, and putting aside the obvious fact that $5 billion is a lot of money, we're nevertheless left with a mathematical truth: the minority party voted en masse against a rescue package during a recession due to differences that amounted to well under 1% of the bill's cost. As Josh Marshall noted, "The pretty simple fact here is that the Republicans are not willing or able to criticize any of the substantial amounts of spending in this bill. They're focusing on a few tiny parts of it." Now, to be fair, this is primarily about the objections of House Republicans. Senate Republicans, meanwhile, aren't cherry-picking isolated expenditures for complaints -- they don't even like the idea of the bill currently under consideration. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters today his caucus wants a "dramatically different" package, and Republicans are trying to "reform" the legislation. And what would "reform" look like? A $713 billion package, of which $430 billion dollars is devoted to tax cuts. -Steve Benen 4:30 PM From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 3 20:47:36 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:47:36 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Taking Steps Message-ID: <009801c9867b$5b7196c0$1254c440$@net> From: The Orion Project [mailto:info at theorionproject.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 AM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Taking Steps The Orion Project Non-Profit Taking Steps New President takes steps: In a recent newsletter , The National Resource Defense Council (NRDC), whose goal it is to safeguard the earth, its people, plants, animals, and ecosystems, points out that in his first week President Obama has begun moving boldly to protect the environment and diminish global warming. This week he set in motion legislation to reduce global warming by 30% between now and 2016. A Good Step: This is a wonderful first step that will help all of us and shows the new President's interest in energy and environmental issues. Our government will likely continue on the path of energy reform; yet to heal our planet, all of us on earth will need to become involved at a personal level and individually take many more steps. A Bigger Step: Cleaner cars with better mileage will help-but what if we could begin running all of our vehicles using motors that consume NO fossil fuels and produce NO pollution? What if we could begin doing it this year? Think how much faster our land, air and water could recover if we took such a BIG step now instead of years from now! Imagine how you would feel driving your vehicle of choice, large or small, with no worry about gas prices or guilt about pollution levels. The beginnings of such a future could happen this year with your help. The Biggest Step: At TOP we are committed to finding, proving, and delivering such a motor technology to the world as soon as possible, and quite possibly this year. You can help us accomplish this very big next step by donating and by spreading the word to your friends about our efforts. Please give what you can today - the time is NOW. Donate to Our Research Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to maryrose333 at att.net by info at theorionproject.org. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by The Orion Project | PO Box 4347 | Charlottesville | VA | 22905 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 3 21:47:37 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:47:37 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] ROLLING THE DICE.... Message-ID: <00c901c98683$bf1df8a0$3d59e9e0$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:48 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] ROLLING THE DICE.... (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) February 3, 2009 http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_02/016727.php ROLLING THE DICE.... A charismatic Democratic president gets elected, fairly easily, in the midst of a global economic crisis. The congressional Republican minority decides to base its future on standing up to the White House's agenda. One House Republican compares the president to Hitler. Another insists the president is threatening "state sovereignty." Several issue warnings about socialism, and vow to resist the new administration's efforts to rescue the economy. This was, of course, the Republican strategy of 1933, soon after Franklin Roosevelt took office. With this background in mind, McClatchy's David Lightman described the Republican strategy of 2009 yesterday, and it seems pretty similar. Has the Republican Party, whose presidential candidate and dozens of congressional hopefuls were rejected by voters in November, already been reinvigorated by its opposition to President Barack Obama? Party officials think so. They proudly point to the fact that all the GOP members of the House of Representatives stuck together last week and voted against the Democrats' $819 billion economic stimulus plan, and to how the Senate, which is due to begin debate on the plan Monday, is full of similarly skeptical Republicans. "We'll look back to that (House) vote as one of the most significant votes Republicans cast. It gave them a very coherent voice," said Michael Franc, a political analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation. The vote was a public demonstration of independence from Obama, who took the unusual step of meeting privately with congressional Republicans the day before the House vote. It also demonstrated what Republicans stand for, notably bigger tax cuts and less government spending. I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around this. Republicans got their mojo back by agreeing to reject the popular agenda of a popular president in a time of international crisis. This, oddly enough, fills them with "pride." Got it. But what seems bizarre is the notion that this gives the GOP a "coherent voice," and makes clear that the party stands for "bigger tax cuts and less government spending." First, we've known the Republican agenda on taxes and spending for several generations now. Was there ever any doubt that the Republican Party wants to cut more taxes and spend less money? As for the "coherent" voice, I think that's the wrong adjective. Republicans have a consistent voice -- the party supports failed economic policies, unanimously, regardless of circumstances or evidence -- but that doesn't make their agenda "coherent." We've heard the Republican voice on economic policy for quite a while now, and it's anything but coherent. Ultimately, congressional Republican leaders seem to believe their only shot at a comeback is opposing Obama at every turn, no matter the costs, or the risks, or the merit. We'll see how that works out for them, but given his public support and theirs, it's quite a gamble. From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 3 21:47:37 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:47:37 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Message-ID: <00ca01c98683$c2d163b0$48742b10$@net> This demands the use of local currencies to provide lifeboats for those who are unemployed, or receiving any part of their income from the State. From: Bob Taft [mailto:rbtaft at rtconnect.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:07 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Few: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Only trouble with a state filing bankruptcy is then they might have to expose both sets of books, the one used to milk the suckers known as the Budget, and the other side loaded with investments belonging to the bureaucracy, called the CAFR (http://CAFR1.com) They really don't want the suckers knowing about the latter. Merge the two sets of books and both sides would be flush. Any politician or media mouthpiece who complains of the budget situation while ignoring the CAFR is a fraud/crook/both. Taxes serve more as another control mechanism over the serfs than as a necessary means of financing government. Best regards, Bob Taft The Taft Ranch Upton, Wyoming (307) 465-2206 http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=74897 " There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves". Will Rogers From: Phyllis Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:58 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 WV, MT, ND and WY still have bucks. ----- Original Message ----- From: TradingPostPaul To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 http://freedomarizona.org/2009/01/30/46-of-50-states-could-file-bankruptcy-i n-2009-2010/ There is a high chance a majority of the States within the United States of America could file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. There are currently 46 states with high budget deficits, Arizona being one of them. In fact, Jan Brewer, the newly appointed Governor of Arizona has a major crisis on her hands, one that Arizona and national media isn't covering. The alarming news is the State of Arizona has 90 to 120 days before they completely run out of money. After that, all bills and tax refunds owed to the citizens will go unpaid. Before Janet Napolitano left for her new Homeland secretary position, she had a stand-off with Arizona Treasurer Dean Martin. The AZ Treasurer forewarned Napolitano about Arizona's financial crisis, but she refused to heed his words. With neighboring California on the verge of bankruptcy this year, many States will follow in their steps. Many States are already scurrying to cut unwanted costs, cut State-funded programs, raise taxes, not issue tax refunds to their citizens, and borrow money just to survive in 2009. Unfortunately, many banks - the same banks the Fed bailed out - are refusing to loan money to the States and their Treasury agencies. The article, State Budget Troubles Worsen, at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities website is an excellent piece to read. It shows where each State currently stands in these challening economic times, and you see 46 of the 50 States are clearly in the financial red. It's very possible you'll see the end of the United States as we know it. If the Fed doesn't bailout the States when their cash dries up and the banks don't loan them money, then our States will be left in financial ruin. This would be a tragic and unprecedented event never experienced in the United States. No State has ever filed bankruptcy, but it could be coming to a State near you this year. We are on the brink of something far worse than the Great Depression. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1932 - Release Date: 02/03/09 07:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 4 03:11:32 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:11:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Imaginative Economics! In-Reply-To: <92b156c81425150106d8729895c99652@www.cfae.biz> Message-ID: <160752.61484.qm@web27402.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/2/09, FAE at yahoo.com wrote: From: FAE at yahoo.com Subject: To: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 8:25 PM February 2009 Imaginative Economics Economics cannot but be reliant upon the imagery it uses, and naturally the whole breadth of human experience is drawn upon for economic knowledge to be communicated, bringing geological, meteorological, plant and animal imagery to bare - as when the landscape shifts, the climate changes, cash flows, green shoots are seen, and animal spirits return. But how deliberate a process is this? I suspect that for many economists, the words used and the thoughts that lie behind them are neither here nor there, because what really count are the underlying facts. Yet, if, as author Owen Barfield suggests, 'interior is anterior', those very facts are nothing but the product of the imaginative experience. Something of this thought is to be found in George Soros's idea of reflexivity - that the facts are not independent of the way one thinks about them. When economics meets metaphysics, then its aspiration to represent the scientific method is tested. Can one contemplate a science of the imagination? Certainly the economics of mathematical modelling looks less scientific when the key variable is missing - the conscious, creative, irrational human being. The publication this month of The Romantic Economist by Richard Bronk, may serve to show that some other path is viable than the one along which humanity has been blithely proceeding. Yet nor should the technical be eshewed, in favour of mere psychologising. >From an associative perspective this technical element is better represented by the concreteness of accounting than the abstraction of mathematising. The current issue of Associate! (see below), visits both ends of the spectrum, passing from the etherealisation of money to the actuality of accounting conventions. Arthur Edwards 1)?? Forthcoming Events Making Credit Less Crunchy: 12 Feb & 19 Mar / Rudolf Steiner House, London The Colours of Money: 20-22 February / Viroqua, USA Inner and Outer Aspects of Associative Economics: 27 Feb - 1 Mar / Auckland, New Zealand. 13-15 March / Melbourne, Australia The Colours of Money: 3-5 April / Stroud, England Click image to subscribe 2)? Associate!? Feb 09 - Stateless Money Lead:The Etherealization of Money.?Tom Greco A Sign of Our Time: The Largest Entity Principle. Thomas Selling. Feature: Leaning on The IASB. Glenn Kessler Archive: Ageing Money. Rudolf Steiner. 21 Policies: Accounting Glossary: Wages Friends Page: The Pensions Rut AE Hero: Differentiated Money Accounting Corner: Fair Value Accounting The Friends of Associative Economics Bulletin provides an overview of what is going on around the world?in the associative economics movement. The bulletin is viewable as a webpage here. ? Click here to unsubscribe or edit your subscription A service provided by the Centre for Associative Economics Copyright 2009 Centre for Associative Economics. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 4 09:47:35 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:47:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Some Monetary Vids Message-ID: <919130.63289.qm@web27403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ? Dear All, ? ??????? This may be of interest. ? ? http://www.youtube.com/user/bluemeniscus ? ? Robert Searle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 4 18:46:31 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:46:31 -0800 Subject: [GJM] Is it possible that the current economic crisis could trigger a dissolution of the United States of America Message-ID: <006401c98733$d3a900c0$7afb0240$@net> With 48 of the 50 United States facing bankruptcy in this current economic crisis, is it possible there could be a dissolution of the USA? Below is a Resolution by the State of New Hampshire, posted here for your viewing, as this State joins Vermont in declaring its dissatisfaction with the way things are being handled in Washington, D.C. HCR 6 - AS INTRODUCED 2009 SESSION 09-0274 09/01 HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 6 A RESOLUTION affirming States' rights based on Jeffersonian principles. SPONSORS: Rep. Itse, Rock 9; Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 5; Rep. Comerford, Rock 9; Sen. Denley, Dist 3 COMMITTEE: State-Federal Relations and Veterans Affairs ANALYSIS This house concurrent resolution affirms States' rights based on Jeffersonian principles. 09-0274 09/01 STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Nine A RESOLUTION affirming States' rights based on Jeffersonian principles. Whereas the Constitution of the State of New Hampshire, Part 1, Article 7 declares that the people of this State have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent State; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled; and Whereas the Constitution of the State of New Hampshire, Part 2, Article 1 declares that the people inhabiting the territory formerly called the province of New Hampshire, do hereby solemnly and mutually agree with each other, to form themselves into a free, sovereign and independent body-politic, or State, by the name of The State of New Hampshire; and Whereas the State of New Hampshire when ratifying the Constitution for the United States of America recommended as a change, "First That it be Explicitly declared that all Powers not expressly & particularly Delegated by the aforesaid are reserved to the several States to be, by them Exercised;" and Whereas the other States that included recommendations, to wit Massachusetts, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island and Virginia, included an identical or similar recommended change; and Whereas these recommended changes were incorporated as the ninth amendment, the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people, and the tenth amendment, the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people, to the Constitution for the United States of America; now, therefore, be it Resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring: That the several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a General Government for special purposes, -- delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force; that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral party, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress; and That the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations, slavery, and no other crimes whatsoever; and it being true as a general principle, and one of the amendments to the Constitution having also declared, that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," therefore all acts of Congress which assume to create, define, or punish crimes, other than those so enumerated in the Constitution are altogether void, and of no force; and that the power to create, define, and punish such other crimes is reserved, and, of right, appertains solely and exclusively to the respective States, each within its own territory; and That it is true as a general principle, and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the Constitution, that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people;" and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, and were reserved to the States or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated, rather than the use be destroyed. And thus also they guarded against all abridgment by the United States of the freedom of religious opinions and exercises, and retained to themselves the right of protecting the same. And that in addition to this general principle and express declaration, another and more special provision has been made by one of the amendments to the Constitution, which expressly declares, that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press:" thereby guarding in the same sentence, and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press: insomuch, that whatever violated either, throws down the sanctuary which covers the others, and that libels, falsehood, and defamation, equally with heresy and false religion, are withheld from the cognizance of federal tribunals. That, therefore, all acts of Congress of the United States which do abridge the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, are not law, but are altogether void, and of no force; and That the construction applied by the General Government (as is evidenced by sundry of their proceedings) to those parts of the Constitution of the United States which delegate to Congress a power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imports, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," and "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the powers vested by the Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof," goes to the destruction of all limits prescribed to their power by the Constitution: that words meant by the instrument to be subsidiary only to the execution of limited powers, ought not to be so construed as themselves to give unlimited powers, nor a part to be so taken as to destroy the whole residue of that instrument: that the proceedings of the General Government under color of these articles, will be a fit and necessary subject of revisal and correction; and That a committee of conference and correspondence be appointed, which shall have as its charge to communicate the preceding resolutions to the Legislatures of the several States; to assure them that this State continues in the same esteem of their friendship and union which it has manifested from that moment at which a common danger first suggested a common union: that it considers union, for specified national purposes, and particularly to those specified in their federal compact, to be friendly to the peace, happiness and prosperity of all the States: that faithful to that compact, according to the plain intent and meaning in which it was understood and acceded to by the several parties, it is sincerely anxious for its preservation: that it does also believe, that to take from the States all the powers of self-government and transfer them to a general and consolidated government, without regard to the special delegations and reservations solemnly agreed to in that compact, is not for the peace, happiness or prosperity of these States; and that therefore this State is determined, as it doubts not its co-States are, to submit to undelegated, and consequently unlimited powers in no man, or body of men on earth: that in cases of an abuse of the delegated powers, the members of the General Government, being chosen by the people, a change by the people would be the constitutional remedy; but, where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy: that every State has a natural right in cases not within the compact, (casus non foederis), to nullify of their own authority all assumptions of power by others within their limits: that without this right, they would be under the dominion, absolute and unlimited, of whosoever might exercise this right of judgment for them: that nevertheless, this State, from motives of regard and respect for its co-States, has wished to communicate with them on the subject: that with them alone it is proper to communicate, they alone being parties to the compact, and solely authorized to judge in the last resort of the powers exercised under it, Congress being not a party, but merely the creature of the compact, and subject as to its assumptions of power to the final judgment of those by whom, and for whose use itself and its powers were all created and modified: that if the acts before specified should stand, these conclusions would flow from them: that it would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights: that confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism -- free government is founded in jealousy, and not in confidence; it is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust with power: that our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which, and no further, our confidence may go. In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution. That this State does therefore call on its co-States for an expression of their sentiments on acts not authorized by the federal compact. And it doubts not that their sense will be so announced as to prove their attachment unaltered to limited government, whether general or particular. And that the rights and liberties of their co-States will be exposed to no dangers by remaining embarked in a common bottom with their own. That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so palpably against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal, (casus foederis,) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the Constitution, shall be exercised within their respective territories; and That the said committee be authorized to communicate by writing or personal conferences, at any times or places whatever, with any person or person who may be appointed by any one or more co-States to correspond or confer with them; and that they lay their proceedings before the next session of the General Court; and That any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America. Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to: I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State. II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law. III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law. IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any corporation or foreign government. V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press. VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition; and That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government; and That copies of this resolution be transmitted by the house clerk to the President of the United States, each member of the United States Congress, and the presiding officers of each State's legislature. FutureDawning.org Mary Rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com Always have my latest info Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 4 18:46:31 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:46:31 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] California Goes Broke, Halts $3.5 Billion in Payments Message-ID: <006901c98733$ded62db0$9c828910$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:28 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] California Goes Broke, Halts $3.5 Billion in Payments (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) California Goes Broke, Halts $3.5 Billion in Payments http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21898.htm By Stephen C. Webster February 03, 2009 "Raw Story" -- -California, the eighth largest economy in the world, is broke. "People are going to be hurt starting today," said Hallye Jordan, speaking on behalf of the state Controller. "There's no money." Since state legislators failed to meet an end of January deadline on an agreement to make up for California's $40 billion budget gap, residents won't be getting their state tax rebates, scholarships to Cal Grant college will go unpaid, vendors invoices will remain uncollected and county social services will cease. At least, temporarily. Services and payments will resume once state legislators come to an agreement on the budget. "This time, there are real-world consequences," said H.D. Palmer, spokesman for the California Department of Finance, in a report by KCRA in Sacramento. "Because we have not been able to get to a budget agreement, payments aren't going to be made." "This is an issue of fairness," said Assemblyman Ted Gaines, R-Roseville, in the KCRA report. "It hurts hardworking families the most. Refunds, in fact, will stimulate the economy, and taxpayers need their money." "Included are $515 million in payments to the state's vendors and $280 million to help people with developmental disabilities. Other public assistance agencies will be left waiting for hundreds of millions of dollars," reports CNN. "Other public assistance agencies will be left waiting for hundreds of millions of dollars." "I see the will during the negotiations even though these are very, very tough things that we talk about, where we go into areas that we have never, ever dreamt of going into and trying to solve," said Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. "So you will be very surprised when the whole thing is done. We're still not there yet. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done but we are moving slowly forward with this process." "If there is no deal by Friday, state government workers will take their first furlough day," reports the San Diego Union Tribune. "Schwarzenegger has ordered state employees to take two days off a month without pay through June 2010 to save about $1.4 billion. "'We're really hoping we can work out a compromise that helps the governor achieve the savings he wants while minimizing the disruption to state services and to the lives of the employees who provide the services,' said Jim Zamora, spokesman for the Service Employees International Union, Local 1000, which represents the state's largest employee union with 90,000 workers." "Some 46 states face budget shortfalls, forcing them to slash funding for many services," reported CNN. "But California, the largest state in the union by population, faces a deficit that totals more than 35% of its general fund." State lawmakers returned to the Capitol on Monday evening to continue budget negotiations. From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 4 18:52:21 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:52:21 -0800 Subject: [GJM] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Message-ID: <006b01c98734$6802e880$3808b980$@net> Hi Vern, This is a wonderful vision, (see Vern?s message below) but we have to start from where we are and get to wherever ?there? is, don?t we? Which is sometime off in the future dependent upon how long it would take to implement the vision and then get sufficient distribution to make a difference. Current projections are from 20- 30 years before distribution would be sufficient to make a difference using conventional means. So, while a few people may have the ability to get this going, what do the rest of us do in the Interim? That is unless, of course, each community had the ability to construct its own vehicles -- this could alleviate the distribution time problem. But this then, brings up the question of deferred road maintenance and the billions of dollars necessary to bring the roads and freeways underlying the transportation system up to meet safety codes since so many bridges and overpasses need repair as well as the roadways themselves. We are looking at deferred maintenance costs accumulated over the past 30 ? 50 years or more in some instances. Then, isn?t it imperative to ask where are we going to drive these vehicles. Let?s remind ourselves of the statistics provided by Alvin Toffler in The Third Wave showing that it would be cheaper to pay people to stay home rather than to transport them to work, school, or shopping when consideration for the costs of constructing and maintaining this type of infrastructure is taken into consideration. The costs associated with bringing just the school system infrastructures up to code nationally are prohibitive. At the same time, new communications technology is showing us that the most effective way of delivering education is via a computerized TV system located in the home which Toffler refers to as ?the electronic cottage? since everything we need would be located within its framework. And, our food supply is going to be adjacent to it as we learn how to raise our food organically in the form of ?edible landscaping? in our own yard. Let?s also be reminded that this cannot concern just the U.S. alone. Communications technology and world trade has now made us into ?the global village? in which we are all connected as one. A picture of ?us? and ?them? is no longer appropriate as we know that what effects people in India, or Russia or China, affects us here in the U.S. Their well-being is highly connected to our well-being whoever and where ever we are located in the world just as the U.S. originated economic crash quickly effected all other countries. There are no beginnings and endings. Boundaries such as Nation-States appear to provide are only artificial constructs in our mind that serve no useful purpose. Then, getting back to the problem at hand, Vern, in the past, you and I have discussed, based on a ?quality of life? perspective, that communities in order to be effective through ?self-organizing? and ?self-governing? should be no larger in size than 250 ? 600 members. So, how do we meet this requirement effectively? Possibly by networking small communities in an oval configuration with convenience shopping and community gathering places situated in the center, located so that everything is within walking distance. Small and very light industrial facilities could be located adjacent to the community perimeter. Online ways of conducting business anywhere in the world are rapidly taking shape on the Internet alleviating the need for travel anywhere. So the need for large scale facilities in the form of office buildings and industrial structures is quickly being obliviated as the need for efficiency and conservation of resources becomes a prime mandate considering that we are a fast-growing population living on a finite planet. Massive lifestyle changes are now mandatory, but people need to understand the reason behind these changes. . And where we seem to be finding a model for how to live cooperatively and in harmony and wellness, is by looking at how the 70 trillion cells in our body have organized themselves over millions of years as pointed out by cell biologist, Bruce Lipton. In his lectures, Bruce points out that each of our cells is a miniature human being with all of the attributes of a human incorporated within the cell. So, now we have the blueprint for organization, but how do we bring everyone together in seeing the big picture and placing themselves within it. The FutureDawning.org virtual learning institute is designed to accomplish these kinds of objectives and to answer the questions involved while resolving any conflicts in the best interests of all concerned, not just as a bottom line dollar objective. But, it is also a humongous project to bring together. So, taking longer than anticipated to launch ? but soon, I feel it will be ready and can accommodate millions of people joined together in exploration of future design. I was amazed to find that there are 150 million people joined together on Facebook. Which has afforded me the opportunity to come together and meet in an everyday venue with people whom I never dreamed it was possible to interact with. FutureDawning.org has the same potential, but on an even greater scale than Facebook since it seeks out like-minded people who see the big picture and recognize that it is only a matter of connecting the dots and placing all of the pieces of the puzzle into their respective niches bringing everything together as a whole. Synergy is everything. From: Vernon Woolf [mailto:VernonWoolf at HoloDynamics.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:33 AM To: mary rose Subject: Re: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Can you imagine driving an electric car that gives off NO pollution while you drive it down the road and, at the same time, it GATHERS pollution out of the air on a grab-grid that can be turned in at the gas station and they PAY YOU for the grid and give you a new one free of charge? We know how. It?s a matter of doing it. Furthermore, your new electric car costs a fraction of what you?re driving now and has no built-in obsolescence. Another thing: we know that future generations have rights too. Our grandchildren have the right to the precious resources we are using for all that ?stuff? we build and buy and then throw into the dump (99% in six months) where we burn it or bury it. Can you imagine a society that lives in balance with its environment, doesn?t need ?stuff? and has an effective retrieval process where all our natural resources are recovered and put into use in our communities in a way that insures their use in future generations? One where we create economic and environmental balance. That?s what the Phoenix Project is all about (www.IAONS.org). When would NOW be a good time? Again, we know how. It?s a matter of doing it. Our current chaos in economics and governance is a prelude to a new system. We can collapse or we can change our way of life. It?s not a difficult choice: we change or die. Our old ?continual growth and consumption? system was never sustainable. The new system is based on a balance of resources economy and governance system. If you have a better plan, please let us know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mary rose" To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" , FixGov at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:47:37 PM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) Subject: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 This demands the use of local currencies to provide lifeboats for those who are unemployed, or receiving any part of their income from the State. From: Bob Taft [mailto:rbtaft at rtconnect.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:07 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Few: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Only trouble with a state filing bankruptcy is then they might have to expose both sets of books, the one used to milk the suckers known as the Budget, and the other side loaded with investments belonging to the bureaucracy, called the CAFR (http://CAFR1.com) They really don't want the suckers knowing about the latter. Merge the two sets of books and both sides would be flush. Any politician or media mouthpiece who complains of the budget situation while ignoring the CAFR is a fraud/crook/both. Taxes serve more as another control mechanism over the serfs than as a necessary means of financing government. Best regards, Bob Taft The Taft Ranch Upton, Wyoming (307) 465-2206 http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=74897 " There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves". Will Rogers From: Phyllis Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:58 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 WV, MT, ND and WY still have bucks. ----- Original Message ----- From: TradingPostPaul To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 http://freedomarizona.org/2009/01/30/46-of-50-states-could-file-bankruptcy-i n-2009-2010/ There is a high chance a majority of the States within the United States of America could file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. There are currently 46 states with high budget deficits, Arizona being one of them. In fact, Jan Brewer, the newly appointed Governor of Arizona has a major crisis on her hands, one that Arizona and national media isn't covering. The alarming news is the State of Arizona has 90 to 120 days before they completely run out of money. After that, all bills and tax refunds owed to the citizens will go unpaid. Before Janet Napolitano left for her new Homeland secretary position, she had a stand-off with Arizona Treasurer Dean Martin. The AZ Treasurer forewarned Napolitano about Arizona's financial crisis, but she refused to heed his words. With neighboring California on the verge of bankruptcy this year, many States will follow in their steps. Many States are already scurrying to cut unwanted costs, cut State-funded programs, raise taxes, not issue tax refunds to their citizens, and borrow money just to survive in 2009. Unfortunately, many banks - the same banks the Fed bailed out - are refusing to loan money to the States and their Treasury agencies. The article, State Budget Troubles Worsen, at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities website is an excellent piece to read. It shows where each State currently stands in these challening economic times, and you see 46 of the 50 States are clearly in the financial red. It's very possible you'll see the end of the United States as we know it. If the Fed doesn't bailout the States when their cash dries up and the banks don't loan them money, then our States will be left in financial ruin. This would be a tragic and unprecedented event never experienced in the United States. No State has ever filed bankruptcy, but it could be coming to a State near you this year. We are on the brink of something far worse than the Great Depression. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1932 - Release Date: 02/03/09 07:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 4 18:52:21 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:52:21 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Beijing rocked by 26 million lost jobs Message-ID: <007001c98734$6ec7b240$4c5716c0$@net> While people clamor for jobs, the ecological collapse looms ever larger. While we may survive an economic collapse by restructuring the system, it is a sure thing that we will not survive an ecological collapse as the ecology is the basis of our life support system. Civilization was built on topsoil and as we destroy it, we destroy our ability to live here on Planet Earth. Our oceans are showing stress with 146 dead zones worldwide, indicating the loss of oxygen and with it the inability to support ocean life. We are polluting our atmosphere in such a way as to destroy the biosphere which ensures life on Earth. Yet, at the same time we deny that human life and the things we do could destroy the delicate balance that gives us the ability to live here, We keep pointing the finger at something or someone else as the root cause, while we continue to plunder and rape the Earth, acting in denial in order to continue to do so. Will we wake up in time to save our life support system, recognizing it is the "Jobs" we do that make us "takers" from our environmental system, and that we are doing nothing to put anything back into it? Is it any wonder that both our economic and ecological systems are now bankrupt? mary rose -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:39 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Beijing rocked by 26 million lost jobs (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/beijing-rocked-by-26-million-lo st-jobs-1543627.html Beijing rocked by 26 million lost jobs Tuesday, 3 February 2009 By Anita Chang An estimated 26 million poor rural Chinese are now without jobs after pinning their hopes on the once-booming manufacturing sector, where work has dried up due to the global economic slowdown, a government advisory body said. The figure was released one day after Beijing warned of "possibly the toughest year" since the turn of the century, calling for the development of agriculture and rural areas to offset the economic fallout. Though many Chinese cities have seen double-digit growth in recent years, the countryside has lagged behind, forcing peasants to seek urban factory jobs. A recent government survey showed that more than 15 per cent of China's 130 million migrant workers have returned to their hometowns recently, where they are now unemployed, said Chen Xiwen, director of the Central Rural Work Leading Group. Another 5 million to 6 million new migrants enter the workforce each year, Mr Chen added. "So, if we put those figures together, we have roughly 25 to 26 million rural migrant workers who are now coming under pressures for employment," the official said. "So, ensuring job creation and maintenance is ensuring the stability of the countryside." China's official jobless tally, which only counts registered urban workers, was estimated last November at 8.3 million. This rate is believed to under-represent the true number of unemployed because it leaves out large swathes of the private or informal economy. Beijing has stressed that its priority will be ensuring development in the countryside, where many have come to rely on remittances sent home by migrants working in factories or on urban construction sites. Many factory workers have already taken to the streets in recent weeks, protesting against lay-offs. The government already has policies to help rural workers returning home, including help in setting up businesses, Mr Chen said. From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 01:57:42 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 00:57:42 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: AMI Reforming our monetary system conference Message-ID: <004501c9876f$d196cb50$74c461f0$@net> From: AMI [mailto:ami at taconic.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:42 PM To: AMI Subject: AMI Reforming our monetary system conference Dear Friends of the American Monetary Institute,, Since 1996, the Institute has provided materials on our website aimed at educating the public and our legislators on the nation's monetary problem (a privatized monetary system run amok) and how to repair and reform it. Since 2003 our research results were published and available in The Lost Science of Money book by Stephen Zarlenga. From 2005 the Institute has held an annual Monetary Reform Conference in Chicago and publicized its American Monetary Act, as the comprehensive solution to the developing monetary/banking crisis. All these are viewable at http://www.monetary.org. Now our ridiculous monetary and banking system (Yes Barney - it is ridiculous!) continuing to use the same erroneous and failed market ideologies and people, actually increases its immoral, though "legalized" theft from our society - the so called bailouts to banks. We observe the severe recession rapidly growing into a depression where unemployment could reach truly staggering levels. "Our" financiers and economists have brought down the whole world economy. We are already in a downward spiral, and we observe a right wing engaged in habitual class warfare efforts blocking and harassing an already too small rescue effort; and a left wing too cowered and too ignorant of the monetary system nature of the problem, to either fight strongly enough for the rescue, or to put forward and enact real reform. So our 2009 AMI Monetary Reform Conference will take place at a time of great crisis and a rare opportunity to achieve real monetary reform. As always, a great lineup of speakers is taking shape now, including some surprises. Attached is a report on the 2008 Conference, written by our associate, Jamie Walton, who assisted in organizing it. While the Obama rescue plan, HR 1 (except for the bailouts) will be a positive factor, and will pass despite objections, it probably won't be anywhere near large enough. But much more importantly it does not address the real issue of monetary reform. The essence of monetary reform is not bailouts, not infrastructure or even printing greenbacks. The essence is to remove the monetary power from those who have repeatedly abused it with disastrous effect - to remove the MONEY POWER from the private banking establishment. See the American Monetary Act at http://www.monetary.org/amacolorpamphlet.pdf. The rest, the positive elements will follow from that. Anything less will not be real reform. We know that from the historical record. The 2009 Conference will focus on that opportunity, and what participants can do to make a difference. The normal registration fee of $395, is reduced to $225 for early registrations postmarked by February 28. (Please see the registration form at http://www.monetary.org/2009conference.html) For those associated with AMI Chapters, the donation is always $195. The Venue is again at Roosevelt University in downtown Chicago, from Sept. 24-27th. Chicago has become a political focus of our nation. It also has a rich tradition in monetary reform. Known especially (by those in the know) for the proposed monetary reform law called The Chicago Plan, which came out of brilliant people at the University of Chicago in the 1930s; before the University's Economics Department went over to the Dark Side with their present market worship nonsense. Please try to participate this year. Its a key time to act for real reform. If you can't attend you can still participate by making a donation at http://www.monetary.org, that we will use for attendance scholarships to students. And remember, your donation supports all the activities of the American Monetary Institute. It makes a very big difference to our work and the results we can achieve. We really can continue making progress with your help. (see the excitement that Congressman Dennis Kucinich created on the Floor of the House of Representatives at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g Warm regards to all, Please support the AMI, We are working for you! And we need your help. Stephen Zarlenga Ami P.S. If you are tired of hearing "the usual suspects" who created the crisis, hogging the airwaves, write the media and suggest that they interview me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jamies Report on the 2008 conference.doc Type: application/msword Size: 37888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 02:48:53 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:48:53 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Republicans Clearly Are Willing to Let This Country Collapse if They Think it Will Win Them Elections Message-ID: <005901c98777$02a07d20$07e17760$@net> Isn't it time to move beyond politics and into something a little more sane? But this is not to say either that I'm all for the stimulus package that the Dems have set up. Just that there has to be a better way of handling things. Now, however, having said that, in the overall scheme of things it appears that everything is perfect and moving along in the eyes of the Universal Mind just as things are meant to be. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:55 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Republicans Clearly Are Willing to Let This Country Collapse if They Think it Will Win Them Elections (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Republicans Clearly Are Willing to Let This Country Collapse if They Think it Will Win Them Elections http://www.alternet.org/story/125178/republicans_clearly_are_willing_to_let_ this_country_collapse_if_they_think_it_will_win_them_elections/ By Doug Kreeger, AlterNet. Posted February 4, 2009. It is abundantly clear that the Republican leaders are going to do everything to prevent Obama and the Dems from doing anything constructive. Last week, we witnessed how the Republicans will help serve this country in the worst crisis since the Great Depression. By standing together in opposition to the stimulus package, they showed the world that they haven't at all joined the momentum of the new administration, rather they are still playing politics and are focused on the 2010 elections. Their objections to the stimulus have nothing to do with trying to solve this crisis. I was always struck during the Bush Error (otherwise known as Era), that the axis of evil title was slapped onto any entity not aligned with their inane response to any issue they faced. Whether it was Iraq or Hurricane Katrina, time and time again we were expected to take their word through blind faith and or outright deceit. Now the remaining cronies have sunk to an unthinkable new low. It is abundantly clear that the Republican leaders are going to do everything to prevent anything constructive from happening. They will be sure our damaged nation does not get fixed on Barack Obama's watch, the public be damned. Last week, Obama's plans were debated in Congress. His goal of creating 2 million to 3 million jobs in the next two years through a massive rebuilding program of our crumbling infrastructure, was countered by the Republicans' revised stimulus plan. Their plan was not detailed beyond more tax cuts. Here's the catch: The Republicans said their plan would create 6 million jobs. Really. Remember "Mission Accomplished"? Just saying something doesn't make it true. The Republican playbook is about standing in opposition, knowing full well that the Democratic Congress is going to pass a stimulus package. Their next step is to go home and sell to what's left of their constituencies the notion that if we had listened to them, things would be far rosier. As a minority, a control group is unlikely to emerge that can disprove false numbers based on false rhetoric. They can go back and campaign in two years whether or not Obama's plan creates anywhere close to the number he hopes and tell the world, and claim that their plan would have provided double the number. A perfectly manipulative strategy which plays to the short-term memory of the American electorate. The minority role in government should be about balancing the need of their constituencies with real ideas that create a stronger way of finding a solution. In the modern era of politics Rush Limbaugh style, it is all about spewing hate and misinformation in the guise of governing for the good of the people. The very people that the Obama plan will help most, are the very same people that are being preached to by the likes of Limbaugh and his puppets in Congress. Yes, the power of right-wing talk radio is finally being seen for what it is, the true center of gravity for one of the two major parties in this country. With a total vacuum of leadership in the Republican Party, they are left with the hot-air balloon of the airwaves creating the impression that failure is the best option for the good of this country. This type of inertia is what Republicans think they need to get back in power, and they are going to their best to try and make that happen. The people of this nation will continue to suffer through this false debate that has nothing to do with solving problems, but is all about Election 2010. Make no mistake. This group of "unconscientious dissenters" can say anything and do nothing. Only time will tell if their strategy for regaining power is successful. Given this tactic, it is up the Democrats and their supporters to now do what is best for the country and stop worrying about appeasing those people who do not serve for the good of the people. President Obama started with his best foot forward and will need to leave these negative forces in his wake. The stakes are too great to play talk-radio politics and let us be falsely governed by an obstructive minority. From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 02:48:53 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:48:53 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [SPAM]Fraud and Death Administration: Webinars & Taking Our Health and Food Back From the US Gov't Message-ID: <005401c98776$fa2ca3d0$ee85eb70$@net> From: Natural Solutions Foundation [mailto:dr.laibow at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:42 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: [SPAM]Fraud and Death Administration: Webinars & Taking Our Health and Food Back From the US Gov't Health Freedom Alert News, alerts, and other information related to your health and your freedoms Action Items To Take Now to Protect Your Freedoms February 5, 2009 Welcome! In This Issue: * eAlert Action: Get Food out of Gov't, Gov't Out of Food <> * NEW! Health Freedom Webinars! <> * NSF Trustee To Speak at Health Freedom Event: 02/08/09 <> * Read Latest <> Threat Assessment: Codex and Beyond * Dr. Rima Recommends: Divest the FDA - Save Food <> Don't forget the video of the day and our Health Freedom Blog, both on our website, www.HealthFreedomUSA.org _________________________________________________ Reclaiming Food, One Sip At a Time(TM) Valley of the Moo n(TM) Coffee A Little Bit of Heaven in a Cup(TM) www.ValleyoftheMoonCoffee.org The US Government thinks GMOs and toxic chemicals belong in your morning coffee. We don't. Natural Solutions Foundation is working to keep your food - and your coffee - clean and unadulterated. That's part of health freedom. Valley of the Moon Coffee(TM) ( www.valleyofthemooncoffee.org)supports sustainable production, tastes incredibly good and helps keep Natural Solutions Foundation at the forefront of the fight for your health and freedoms. Won't you help us while you sip your morning brew? Your tax deductible donation of $25 brings you our "thank you": Simply the best coffee you've ever tasted - Shade Grown, without GMOs, Pesticides or Herbicides! Donations in multiples of $25 bring more incomparable "Thank you!" gifts to you or your friends - 1/2 lb of amazing coffee for every $25! What's in Valley of the Moon(TM) Shade grown, GMO free, Pesticide Free, Herbicide Free Coffee for you? Simply the best coffee you have ever tasted, a tax deduction for each bag AND your support for health and health freedom. ValleyoftheMoon Coffee is Friendly Food Certified because it is friendly to you, the Consumer, to the Environment, and to the Workers who product it. Visit www.ValleyoftheMoonCoffee.org now and get some of the best coffee you've ever tried while you support the Natural Solutions Foundation. And while you're at it, consider joining our new Food and Farming Yahoo!Groups forum. Check it out at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural-solutions-food-and-farming/ _____ Don't Miss This Special Event: Sunday February 8, 2009 Our own Natural Solutions Foundation Trustee Ralph Fucetola JD will be speaking with other health freedom advocates at a Health Freedom Rally - Hunterdon Central High - 1 PM to 4 PM (84 Route 31, Flemington, NJ, 08822). Join the hundreds of people we expect to be there... if you are in the area, please join us! Read more... http://vitaminlawyerhealthfreedom.blogspot.com/2009/01/health-freedom-rally- february-8-2009.html _____ Health Freedom Uses the New Media: Action Webinars We are the "net roots" of Health Freedom, providing Natural Solutions to the problems that threaten our health and health freedom. The better informed we are, the more effective we become. Using the internet to achieve our goals, we constantly look for ways to share information in the continuing educational campaign that is forms a principle thrust of our Health Freedom campaign. Through our web sites and social networking links like these Health Freedom Action eAlerts and the action items they contain -- Through the forums we've established on Yahoo!Groups, and -- Through our attendence at Codex and other meetings with the YouTube video reports we've posted shortly after each event, -- Through our Health Freedom Blogs and our VitaminLawyer Blogs we use advanced communications techniques available to us to keep you, our "net roots" in the loop and in front of the crowd. Based on your feedback and our advisers' input, we are proud to offer you a new, enhanced outreach program: The Health Freedom Action Webinars "Webinars" are unique, online learning and communicating events combining live audio and visual opportunities for a limited number of people with interactive Q&A! Once the live webinar has taken place, it is archived and becomes available to enormous numbers of people. Here are some of the initial webinars and you are invited to attend (details below): 1. Valley of the Moon Eco Community: Free - 02/12/09 2. Considerations for CAM Practitioners: $99 - 02/26/09 3. Protecting your IRA - Sustainable Living: $49 - 03/07/09 The webinars are live, interactive learning experiences where you'll hear us, see slides and be able to ask questions. After the live webinar, it is archived so people can see it any time. 1. The Valley of the Moon Eco Community Staff: Maj. Gen. Albert N. Stubblebine III (US Army, Ret.), Rima E. Laibow, MD Live Webinar: February 12, 2009 - 8 PM EST Tuition: Complimentary Register for Webinar at: http://vital-connection.com/health-freedom-action-webinar/ If you are interested in sustainable living, thinking about where to go and wondering what the Natural Solutions Foundation Eco Demonstration project might offer you, this seminar is for you. Dr. Rima and General Bert will take you on a guided tour of the concept, the history and the reality of the Valley of the Moon. This seminar is built around 72 beautiful slides; Gen Bert and Dr. Rima take you on an eye-opening tour... you can see the possibilities. 2. Ethical and Legal Considerations for Advanced HealthCare ("CAM") Practitioners Staff: Ralph Fucetola JD Live Webinar Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 8 PM EST Tuition: $99.99 http://vital-connection.com/ethical-legal-considerations-course-february-26t h-2009/ This seminar is intended for Natural (sometimes called "CAM") health practitioners in every area of practice. With the State and Federal Government agencies determined to stamp out all non-pharmaceutical-focused treatments, if you are an advanced health practitioner, you need accurate, up to the minute information on * Standard Operating Procedures * Disclaimers * Disclosures * Informed Consent * Risks to Private Practitioners * Practical advise on structuring your practice to protect yourself and your patients * Forbidden words * How to present what you do and why you do it * Waivers Common sense, talent and experience may make you a great practitioner, but it takes legal information and careful strategic communication to keep you out of trouble and in practice. Join us for this essential course. Tuition includes a $30 tax deductible donation to the Natural Solutions Foundation and an information-filled eBook with practical forms to use. 3. Protect your IRA/401 Retirement Funds, Achieve Sustainable Living and Support Health Freedom - All At the Same Time! Staff: Natural Solutions Foundation Trustees Rima E. Laibow, MD, Ralph Fucetola, JD Live Webinar Thursday, March 7, 2009 - 8 PM EST Tuition: $49.99 Register for Webinar: page to be posted. Check the new Webinar link soon at www.HealthFreedomUSA.org Off-shore placement of retirment funds may not be available for much longer. In fact, your retirement funds are being eyed by the cash-starved US government. At the same time, your health freedom and access to clean food and dietary supplements is under more attack than at any time in the past. Retirement funds can support the Valley of the Moon Eco Demonstration Project, www.NaturalSoltutionsFoundation.org , in Panama while the Valley of the Moon helps to protect your health freedoms and reclaim the production of food. This is more than a win-win relationship. It is a must-win relationship for both you and health freedom. Join us to learn more and find out what others are doing to protect their health and their wealth. Tuition includes a $15 tax deductible Donation to the Natural Solutions Foundation and a free eBook you can share with others to help them get the picture, too. And please email us at dr.laibow at gmail.com with "Webinar" in the Subject Line with any questions or suggestions for more webinars! _____ FDA "Fraud and Death Administration" Taking Back Food from the Government It's really simple, you know. If enough people demand it, the government will behave itself. We saw that a couple years ago when 598,000 of us sought to tell the FDA to leave our natural remedies alone... and the infamous anti-CAM guidance remains in limbo to this day. It comes down to taking simple actions to make sure the agencies, Congress, the President and other decision makers get your message loud and clear. Now that Health Freedom made it among the top social issues on Change.org and Change.gov, we are ready to push even harder. That's where these Health Freedom Action eAlerts make a difference. Please take these actions: 1. Right to Use ~ Right to Choose Use Nano Silver, Retain the Right to Choose Nano Silver Questionable "Consumer Organizations" Petition EPA to Ban Nano Silver - Deadline extended to March 20th. Tell EPA Not to Ban Nano Silver of Any Type http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26 405 Defending Nano Silver http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=1773 Good work! Your vigorous response to the approacing deadline caught the attention of the EPA. So many of your responded that the deadline was extended by 2 months. Now, Mighty Mouse Warriors, keep on clicking! And remember to tell your entire contact list that health freedom is under attack - again! Ask them to take action here: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/112/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=264 05 2. DIVEST THE FDA - and all government agencies of their often misused power to deny us access to wholesome nutrition and natural rememdies. Protect Food from FDA/USDA Regulation! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26314 3. Please consider joining our new Food and Farming Yahoo!Groups forum. Check it out at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural-solutions-food-and-farming/ Satyagraha (Non-cooperation) and Monsanto Here is the link to an important article about how farmers in India are reclaiming their rights: http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=1991 _____ The General's Communiqu? Maj. Gen. Albert N. Stubblebine III (US Army, Ret.) Health Freedom is gaining new allies. Earlier this week Dr. Rima and I had some preliminary meetings with The City of Knowledge Foundation in Panama, seeking additional support for the International Decade of Nutrition's Valley of the Moon Eco Demonstration Project. In about 2 weeks we are being flown to Europe for a very special presentation that must remain quiet for now... We'll be posting YouTube videos from that event, however, so check our YouTube channel often: http://youtube.com/naturalsolutions . You see, Europe is already in the process of losing most of its supplements and all of its high potency ones. We in the US still enjoy access to them, but the FDA is gearing up to bring us into "HARMonziation" with the Codex Vitamin and Mineral Guideline just like Europe where the European Food Supplements Directive will make advanced health through high potency, varied nutritional supplements a criminal activity. Natural treatments of all sorts are being seriously restricted there and the EU's 27 countries met secretly not long ago to force GMO "franken foods" on a strongly unwilling population despite laws and objections. It's a case of "follow the money - and you'll find the genocidalists along with the bankers!" But Europe is waking up and Dr. Rima and I are making this trip to help that happen. We'll keep you posted, of course. After that, we'll be filming some documentary footage and doing interviews and, I am happy to tell you, sneaking away for a few days of very, very much needed R&R. We'll keep you posted on that, too. One of the Principles of War is "Surprise". You never want to be surprised and you always want the enemy to be surprised. That's why it is so important for our side to disseminate high quality information. So if you did not have a chance to read my last communiqu? on the current health freedom threat status, I urge you to do so now. Here's the link to this very important message. Estimate of Situation: Current Threat Assessment: Codex and Beyond... http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=1969 _____ Rima Laibow Dr. Rima Recommends: Change.org continues to promote Health Freedom as one of its Top Ten Ideas for Change! We can help them by clicking onto their site, taking a look at the videos we've posted and commenting on them. Thanks! http://www.change.org/ideas/view/health_freedom Divest the FDA! While We're At It, Divest the USDA, Too! Action Step: Protect Food from FDA/USDA Regulation! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26314 It's pretty ho-hum no-news that the FDA is failing miserably at every aspect of its mandate. ~Mercury in high fructose corn syrup (which is usually made from genetically modified "Franken Corn" ~MSG, a known neurological and pancreatic poison (of the excitotoxin class) in vaccines, kids food (and adults food, too) ~Melamine OK in baby's formulas and the general food supply despite the fact that it can be lethal to babies and there was no safe level until the FDA unscientifically declared that there was ~Irradiated just-about-everything-including-salad-greens ~Antibiotics so widely used that antibiotic resistant ("flesh eating" staph shows up in pork and other foods, industrially genetically modified plants growing next to natural ones and contaminating them forever, ~Salmonella laced peanut butter ~Down graded organic foods to make Big Agribiz as happy as Big Pharma ~Conflicts of interest so blatant that the government no longer tries to deal wth them, ~Cattle producers forbidden to test their cattle for "mad cow" disease because they might find it, ~Sweeteners that can cause blindness, MS and brain damage, ~Acrylamide in snack foods, ~Dangerous unlabeled GMOs passed off as "equivalent" so consumers won't ask, don't know, ~Veterinary drugs and pesticides permitted in food despite known hazards, ~Viruses sprayed on foods, ~Cloned meat and milk, and on and on and on. Thanks to the FDA, the "Fraud and Death Agency", and the USDA, the "" agency, the US diet is not life sustaining: it is disease and death inducing. Our diet, thanks to these agencies, is literally killing us. Why? Because the regulators work for, and owe their alleigence - and their financial well-being, to the regulated industries. Enough! Congressional report after Congressional report, Hearing after Hearing makes it clear that the agencies charged with protecting our food can no more do that than the EPA can clean up and protect our environment. Again and again Congress affirms that the agencies have failed and then "solves" the problem by acting like the lunatic who, unsuccesful at a problem, does the same thing again, making the problem worse, not better. Enough! Congress take note: throwing money at the FDA and USDA and giving them more authoritity does not solve the problem. We have 80 years of proof that this strategy just makes things worse. Enough! Yes, the only answer is to take food regulatory authority away from these death dealing agencies and give it back to the States where popular pressure and control is far more meaningful. How to do that? By the same kind of pressure that made Congress do a 180? reversal of direction in 1994. Instead of voting to ban all nutrients (are you noticing a pattern here?) they responded to the millions of letters from Americans from all walks of life and passed legislation treating nutrients as foods which, as such, should not be regulated as if they were drugs. That legislation is called the Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act (DSHEA) and public pressure in its favor is the ONLY reason that we have access to dietary supplements at all. The lesson is clear. It is public pressure, like the 2x4 the apocraphyl farmer used to get the mule's attention, which drives enlightened public policy, NOT politicians and certainly not the lobbyists they routinely bow to. The FDA does a poor enough job "regulating" dangerous and deadly drugs. There is no way an agency so pervasively corrupt and inept can change its ways and suddenly become the custodian of health and healthy foods when those very foods are the chief economic competitor of the drugs whose approval supplies the lion's share of the operating budget of the FDA through "Users Fees". The conflict of interest is so monumental that it fairly takes your breath away. Enough! Drugs are not the very core of life. Food is. During 2009, the Natural Solutions Foundation will be creating and pursuing a campaign to take back our food from the inept and corrupt hands of the US Government (which also means getting the FDA and USDA out of Codex, by the way). We are going to be asking for your help in dissemination and for action steps. Ready to get the government out of food and get food out of the government? Click here ( http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26314) to tell your Congressmen and women that the drug makers can have the FDA to play with, but we want the FDA and USDA out of the food regulation business. And remember to click here (http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=189 ) to make your tax deductible donation to this vitally important campaign. All us us who eat are in this together, you know. And we need your help to set the table to serve up the dish known as health freedom, with clean, unadulterated food as the main course! _____ By the Way, While you still can get it, get some great Nano silver here: www.nutronix.com/naturalsolutions Go to Products and then scroll down to Silver Solutions (bottom of left side menu). Nano silver has a very long shelf life, years really, so you can safely lay in your supply NOW! General Bert told you that we speakers at an important conference in Europe. Make no mistake: we never, but never, leave home without silver. We believe that it is one of the most important reasons that we virtually never get sick and if we do, get better very, very quickly. Please share this information with your friends and contacts and ask them to help protect food and freedom, too. Let them know that they can get their very free subscription to the Health Freedom Action eAlerts at http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=187 . Thanks! Yours in health and freedom, Dr. Rima Rima E. Laibow, MD Medical Director Natural Solutions Foundation www.HealthFreedomUSA.org SHARE! Tell your friends about HealthFreedomUSA.org ORGANIZE! Join us in the fight to protect your health freedom CONTRIBUTE! Make a contribution and help raise funds to support your health freedom fight _____ To unsubscribe from this Health Freedom Action Alert, click here and enter your email address. To manage your subscription preferences, click here. Donate Now Organics4u Store Marketplace Valley of the Moon Coffee ACTIONS: CLICK : Tell Congress You're Sick of Dangerous Food. Get Government Out Of Food Regulation CLICK : ACT NOW! Stop EPA from Banning Nano Silver Comment period extended to 3/20! CLICK : Tell Congress You Want Safe, Labeled Non GM Food! Get Congressional Co-Sponsors for Vital GMO Label, Safety Bills CLICK : Force FDA to Allow Information About Health and Foods! CLICK : Stop Compulsory Vaccination CLICK : Tell Your Legislators to Oppose All Restrictions on Nutritional Free Speech CLICK : Tell Legislators to Protect You From Dental Mercury CLICK: Become a Health Freedom Community Organizer CLICK : Say NO! to Forced Vaccines Sign the Tiburon Declaration CLICK : Join our new Food and Farming Forum PRODUCTS: CLICK : Treat Yourself to Health Freedom's Coffee! CLICK : Shop Our Online Organic Store CLICK : Visit Our New Marketplace of Recommended Products CLICK : Order "Nutricide: The DVD" Today CLICK : Get Vaccine Exemption eBook CLICK : Order Codex eBook CLICK : Order Silver Solution (Go to Products tab and then Silver Solution in left column) CLICK : Detox Pads are Here! Detox While You Sleep! CLICK : Increase Stem Cells Naturally CLICK : Get the BioMag Advantage (5% discount - use NatSol as code) CLICK : Have a Product or Service You Want to Put In Front of Health Freedom Supporters? INFORMATION: CLICK : Join No-Forced-Vaccine Forum CLICK : Join Just Say NO to GMO Forum CLICK : Use the new Advanced Healthcare Wiki CLICK : And the new Advanced Healhcare Web Ring CLICK : To join the Web Ring CLICK : About the Web Ring IMPORTANT! Keep Health Freedom Free. Make Your Recurring Donation Now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 5 03:14:45 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:14:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] AMI Reforming our monetary system conference In-Reply-To: <498A6213.4070108@taconic.net> Message-ID: <598728.67488.qm@web27402.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 5/2/09, AMI wrote: From: AMI Subject: AMI Reforming our monetary system conference To: "AMI" Date: Thursday, 5 February, 2009, 3:50 AM Dear Friends of the American Monetary Institute,, Since 1996, the Institute has provided materials on our website aimed at educating the public and our legislators on the nation's monetary problem (a privatized monetary system run amok) and how to repair and reform it. Since 2003 our research results were published and available in The Lost Science of Money book by Stephen Zarlenga. From 2005 the Institute has held an annual Monetary Reform Conference in Chicago and publicized its American Monetary Act, as the comprehensive solution to the developing monetary/banking crisis. All these are viewable at http://www.monetary.org. Now our ridiculous monetary and banking system (Yes Barney - it is ridiculous!) continuing to use the same erroneous and failed market ideologies and people, actually increases its immoral, though "legalized" theft from our society - the so called bailouts to banks. We observe the severe recession rapidly growing into a depression where unemployment could reach truly staggering levels. "Our" financiers and economists have brought down the whole world economy. We are already in a downward spiral, and we observe a right wing engaged in habitual class warfare efforts blocking and harassing an already too small rescue effort; and a left wing too cowered and too ignorant of the monetary system nature of the problem, to either fight strongly enough for the rescue, or to put forward and enact real reform. So our 2009 AMI Monetary Reform Conference will take place at a time of great crisis and a rare opportunity to achieve real monetary reform. As always, a great lineup of speakers is taking shape now, including some surprises. Attached is a report on the 2008 Conference, written by our associate, Jamie Walton, who assisted in organizing it. While the rescue plan, HR 1 (except for the bailouts) will be a positive factor, and will pass despite objections, it probably won't be anywhere near large enough. But much more importantly it does not address the real issue of monetary reform. The essence of monetary reform is not bailouts, not infrastructure or even printing greenbacks. The essence is to remove the monetary power from those who have repeatedly abused it with disastrous effect - to remove the MONEY POWER from the private banking establishment. See the American Monetary Act at http://www.monetary.org/amacolorpamphlet.pdf. The rest, the positive elements will follow from that. Anything less will not be real reform. We know that from the historical record. The 2009 Conference will focus on that opportunity, and what participants can do to make a difference. The normal registration fee of $395, is reduced to $225 for early registrations postmarked by February 28. (Please see the registration form at http://www.monetary.org/2009conference.html) For those associated with AMI Chapters, the donation is always $195. The Venue is again at Roosevelt University in downtown Chicago, from Sept. 24-27th. Chicago has become a political focus of our nation. It also has a rich tradition in monetary reform. Known especially (by those in the know) for the proposed monetary reform law called The Chicago Plan, which came out of brilliant people at the University of Chicago in the 1930s; before the University's Economics Department went over to the Dark Side with their present market worship nonsense. Please try to participate this year. Its a key time to act for real reform. If you can't attend you can still participate by making a donation at http://www.monetary.org, that we will use for attendance scholarships to students. And remember, your donation supports all the activities of the American Monetary Institute. It makes a very big difference to our work and the results we can achieve. We really can continue making progress with your help. (see the excitement that Congressman Dennis Kucinich created on the Floor of the House of Representatives at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g Warm regards to all, Please support the AMI, We are working for you! And we need your help. Stephen Zarlenga Ami P.S. If you are tired of hearing "the usual suspects" who created the crisis, hogging the airwaves, write the media and suggest that they interview me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 5 03:56:31 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:56:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] AMT 2 Conferences on Muslim Media and Human Rights in Washington DC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <420840.92746.qm@web27405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 5/2/09, Adeeb Report wrote: From: Adeeb Report Subject: AMT 2 Conferences on Muslim Media and Human Rights in Washington DC To: "Report Press" Date: Thursday, 5 February, 2009, 2:33 AM INFORMATION PRESS - News Views Media - www.InformPress.com - USA AMT Two Conferences on Muslim Media and Human Rights in Washington DC AMT: http://www.americanmuslimvoter.net (InformPress.com) - Attend two conferences about Muslim Media and Human Rights organized by the American Muslim Taskforce on Civil Rights and Elections (AMT), a coalition of 12 major Islamic organizations based in the United States of America (USA). EVENT 1: MUSLIM MEDIA CONFERENCE (Free Admission) WHEN: Friday, 6 February 2009 - 2 PM - 8 PM EVENT 2: HUMAN RIGHTS CONVENTION (Admission Fee: $ 25 Per Person - Includes Lunch) WHEN: Saturday, 7 February 2009 - 9 AM - 5 PM WHERE: L'Enfant Plaza Hotel 480 L'Enfant Plaza, SW, Washington, DC 20024 USA Telephone: 202-484-1000 PURCHASE TICKETS: http://tinyurl.com/aftcs6 NOTE: Click these 3 Web links to read the AMT's list of speakers: http://www.americanmuslimvoter.net http://www.americanmuslimvoter.net/images/special/AMT_72dpi.JPG http://tour.democracynow.org/2009/02/washington_dc_13.html For more information, CONTACT: -- Dr. AGHA K. SAEED Chairman: American Muslim Alliance (AMA) Coordinator: American Muslim Taskforce (AMT) AMT: http://www.americanmuslimvoter.net E-Mail: aghaksaeed at yahoo.com -- Mr. MUHAMMAD SALIM AKHTAR Coordinator: American Muslim Alliance (AMA) Phone: 773-507-5335 AMA: http://www.amaweb.org E-Mail: bestusa80 at hotmail.com -- Mr. SYED ADEEB Director: Human Rights Forum (HRF) Director: International Justice Forum (IJF) Phone: 703-801-2303 E-Mail: hrfusa at gmail.com HRF: http://rightsforum.wordpress.com -- Mr. M. MOHSEN BASHIR Executive Director: Human Rights Forum (HRF) Phone: 703-870-5777 HRF: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=43036429556 -- Mr. FAHIM JAVED (KHAN) Coordinator: International Justice Forum (IJF) Phone: 202-758-5037 IJF: http://www.JusticeForum.info http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42665598838 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=53955016578 AMT is an umbrella organization of the following 12 associations based in the USA: American Muslim Alliance (AMA), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Muslim Alliance in North America (MANA), Muslim American Society-Freedom Foundation (MAS-FF), Muslim Student Association-National (MSA-N), Muslim Ummah of North America (MUNA), and United Muslims of America (UMA). AMT Observer Organizations: Islamic Educational Center of Orange County (IECOC), Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC). ENDORSERS: Human Rights Forum (HRF) -- International Justice Forum (IJF) -- Pakistani-American Citizens Council (PACC) http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5773156768 [Copyright: Information Press - www.InformPress.com - 2009 - USA - Wednesday, 4 February 2009] Information Press: http://www.InformPress.com -- RPN: http://groups.google.com/group/reportpress -- IPN: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/informpress -- MPF: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pressforum -- Chief Editor - Journalist SYED ADEEB - www.SyedAdeeb.net INFORMATION PRESS - News Views Media - www.InformPress.com - USA --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ NOTE: To Read, Subscribe or Unsubscribe to the ReportPress.com Web- Email Newsletter based in the USA, click this newsletter's website link: - http://groups.google.com/group/reportpress -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 07:07:23 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:37:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Imaginative Economics! In-Reply-To: <160752.61484.qm@web27402.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82746.55246.qm@web94913.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Rodney, ? I have been recieving mail from Arthur on associative economics. I would like to learn on your comments as I have not read all the cirtical propositions. ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Wed, 4/2/09, robert searle wrote: From: robert searle Subject: Re: [GJM] Imaginative Economics! To: discussion at globaljusticemovement.net Date: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009, 3:41 PM --- On Tue, 3/2/09, FAE at yahoo.com wrote: From: FAE at yahoo.com Subject: To: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 8:25 PM February 2009 Imaginative Economics Economics cannot but be reliant upon the imagery it uses, and naturally the whole breadth of human experience is drawn upon for economic knowledge to be communicated, bringing geological, meteorological, plant and animal imagery to bare - as when the landscape shifts, the climate changes, cash flows, green shoots are seen, and animal spirits return. But how deliberate a process is this? I suspect that for many economists, the words used and the thoughts that lie behind them are neither here nor there, because what really count are the underlying facts. Yet, if, as author Owen Barfield suggests, 'interior is anterior', those very facts are nothing but the product of the imaginative experience. Something of this thought is to be found in George Soros's idea of reflexivity - that the facts are not independent of the way one thinks about them. When economics meets metaphysics, then its aspiration to represent the scientific method is tested. Can one contemplate a science of the imagination? Certainly the economics of mathematical modelling looks less scientific when the key variable is missing - the conscious, creative, irrational human being. The publication this month of The Romantic Economist by Richard Bronk, may serve to show that some other path is viable than the one along which humanity has been blithely proceeding. Yet nor should the technical be eshewed, in favour of mere psychologising. >From an associative perspective this technical element is better represented by the concreteness of accounting than the abstraction of mathematising. The current issue of Associate! (see below), visits both ends of the spectrum, passing from the etherealisation of money to the actuality of accounting conventions. Arthur Edwards 1)?? Forthcoming Events Making Credit Less Crunchy: 12 Feb & 19 Mar / Rudolf Steiner House, London The Colours of Money: 20-22 February / Viroqua, USA Inner and Outer Aspects of Associative Economics: 27 Feb - 1 Mar / Auckland, New Zealand. 13-15 March / Melbourne, Australia The Colours of Money: 3-5 April / Stroud, England Click image to subscribe 2)? Associate!? Feb 09 - Stateless Money Lead:The Etherealization of Money.?Tom Greco A Sign of Our Time: The Largest Entity Principle. Thomas Selling. Feature: Leaning on The IASB. Glenn Kessler Archive: Ageing Money. Rudolf Steiner. 21 Policies: Accounting Glossary: Wages Friends Page: The Pensions Rut AE Hero: Differentiated Money Accounting Corner: Fair Value Accounting The Friends of Associative Economics Bulletin provides an overview of what is going on around the world?in the associative economics movement. The bulletin is viewable as a webpage here. ? Click here to unsubscribe or edit your subscription A service provided by the Centre for Associative Economics Copyright 2009 Centre for Associative Economics. All rights reserved. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodney.shakespeare1 at btopenworld.com Thu Feb 5 08:55:25 2009 From: rodney.shakespeare1 at btopenworld.com (Rodney Shakespeare) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:55:25 -0000 Subject: [GJM] Associative Economics References: <82746.55246.qm@web94913.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f901c987aa$2ae06970$0301a8c0@your447023ae6b> Dear Mukhtar, I have had students who attended Rudolph Steiner schools and was impressed by their general all-round development, emotional balance and creativity although with some weakness in the usual academic subjects. As regards Arthur Edwards and Associative Economics, I could not find a website with a clear statement of what the Economics would do in practice. Can you direct me to such a website? You refer to "critical propositions" -- are they set out specifically anywhere? Rodney Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam To: discussion at globaljusticemovement.net ; dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:07 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [GJM] Imaginative Economics! Dear Rodney, I have been recieving mail from Arthur on associative economics. I would like to learn on your comments as I have not read all the cirtical propositions. Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Wed, 4/2/09, robert searle wrote: From: robert searle Subject: Re: [GJM] Imaginative Economics! To: discussion at globaljusticemovement.net Date: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009, 3:41 PM --- On Tue, 3/2/09, FAE at yahoo.com wrote: From: FAE at yahoo.com Subject: To: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 8:25 PM February 2009 Imaginative Economics Economics cannot but be reliant upon the imagery it uses, and naturally the whole breadth of human experience is drawn upon for economic knowledge to be communicated, bringing geological, meteorological, plant and animal imagery to bare - as when the landscape shifts, the climate changes, cash flows, green shoots are seen, and animal spirits return. But how deliberate a process is this? I suspect that for many economists, the words used and the thoughts that lie behind them are neither here nor there, because what really count are the underlying facts. Yet, if, as author Owen Barfield suggests, 'interior is anterior', those very facts are nothing but the product of the imaginative experience. Something of this thought is to be found in George Soros's idea of reflexivity - that the facts are not independent of the way one thinks about them. When economics meets metaphysics, then its aspiration to represent the scientific method is tested. Can one contemplate a science of the imagination? Certainly the economics of mathematical modelling looks less scientific when the key variable is missing - the conscious, creative, irrational human being. The publication this month of The Romantic Economist by Richard Bronk, may serve to show that some other path is viable than the one along which humanity has been blithely proceeding. Yet nor should the technical be eshewed, in favour of mere psychologising. From an associative perspective this technical element is better represented by the concreteness of accounting than the abstraction of mathematising. The current issue of Associate! (see below), visits both ends of the spectrum, passing from the etherealisation of money to the actuality of accounting conventions. Arthur Edwards 1) Forthcoming Events a.. Making Credit Less Crunchy: 12 Feb & 19 Mar / Rudolf Steiner House, London b.. The Colours of Money: 20-22 February / Viroqua, USA c.. Inner and Outer Aspects of Associative Economics: 27 Feb - 1 Mar / Auckland, New Zealand. 13-15 March / Melbourne, Australia d.. The Colours of Money: 3-5 April / Stroud, England Click image to subscribe2) Associate! Feb 09 - Stateless Money Lead:The Etherealization of Money. Tom Greco A Sign of Our Time: The Largest Entity Principle. Thomas Selling. Feature: Leaning on The IASB. Glenn Kessler Archive: Ageing Money. Rudolf Steiner. 21 Policies: Accounting Glossary: Wages Friends Page: The Pensions Rut AE Hero: Differentiated Money Accounting Corner: Fair Value Accounting The Friends of Associative Economics Bulletin provides an overview of what is going on around the world in the associative economics movement. The bulletin is viewable as a webpage here. Click here to unsubscribe or edit your subscription A service provided by the Centre for Associative Economics Copyright 2009 Centre for Associative Economics. All rights reserved. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 5 09:51:30 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 16:51:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Clueless Economists Message-ID: <198014.73447.qm@web27407.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ?Dear All, ? ??????? This may be of interest. ? ??????????? R.Searle ???????????? Similar articles The world's first environmental refugees Will climate change make your house uninsurable? Economy distorted by multimillion pound bonuses World Bank is unfit to manage new global climate funds, say 142 organisations Is it time to change 20th century economic paradigms? Richard Heinberg?05/02/2009 A hundred years ago, markets ruled: fortunes were made, workers abused, bubbles blown. The Austrian School of economists, led by Ludwig von Mises, said this was fine: despite temporary messiness, the market knows best. But the messiness of markets was unacceptable to socialists, some of whom led a revolution in Russia to establish the first state-controlled, planned economy. The catastrophes of the Great War and The Great Depression led to the ascendancy of John Maynard Keynes, who argued that even capitalist economies need regulation to avert manias and subsequent implosions. Keynesianism then reigned, as Britain, the US, and most other countries adopted regulations on banking, finance, and industry, in many cases nationalizing railways and other central features of the productive economy. Meanwhile, rival economist Friedrich von Hayek quietly plotted the Austrian School?s revenge, the occasion for which was offered by stagflation and labour unrest in the 1970s. Von Hayek, who had toiled in obscurity, was now the man of the hour; his acolytes Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan promised to show the way back to prosperity: government was the problem and privatisation the solution! The ensuing three decades have seen economists crowding back to the ?Let Markets Rule? side of the ship, as they giddily praised the wonders of globalisation and free trade. Since the Collapse of 2008, economists are rushing to announce a new era of neo-Keynesianism: lack of regulation in the finance industry has led us to the brink and only massive government intervention can put us back on track. Sadly, this time the tracks are gone. The great economic paradigms simply took too much for granted. They assumed that economies run on money and labour, but ignored the roles of energy and ecosystems. They assumed that because population, resource extraction, and available energy had grown throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, they would grow in perpetuity once the proper relations between money, market forces and government regulation were worked out. Almost no one stopped to think that limits to Earth?s atmospheric carbon sinks and supplies of fossil fuels, topsoil and water might impose ultimate limits on economic activity. The fields of ecological economics and biophysical economics have sprung up to fill in this blind spot of conventional economic thinking, but both are currently marginalised. In the months ahead we will see a titanic battle over who can restore the beatific condition of perpetual growth. Sadly, neither free marketers nor state controllers have the answer. Humanity has reached physical limits to growth ? peak oil and climate change ? that spell ruin to all economic philosophies that fail to take such limits into account. How long will it take the theoreticians to figure this out? How much of our remaining wealth will they destroy in a futile attempt to prove their paradigms eternally true? How far will society unravel before someone in charge begins to question the received wisdom? Best hopes for quick learning. Richard Heinberg is a Senior Fellow of the Post Carbon Institute and author of Peak Everything var addthis_options = "email, stumbleupon, digg, delicious, newsvine, propeller, reddit, more"; var addthis_pub="ecologist"; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 10:59:17 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:59:17 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Eric Holder: Please Appoint a Special Prosecutor Message-ID: <005801c987bb$79d731b0$6d859510$@net> -----Original Message----- From: Democrats.com [mailto:activist at democrats.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:35 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Eric Holder: Please Appoint a Special Prosecutor Democrats.com, the Aggressive Progressives - 500,000 strong and growing! Attorney General Eric Holder: Please Appoint a Special Prosecutor President Obama's choice for Attorney General, Eric Holder, was confirmed by the Senate yesterday and sworn in today. In another proud historic first, Mr. Holder will be our first African American Attorney General. During his confirmation hearings, Mr. Holder declared unequivocally, "Waterboarding is torture." This terrified Republicans because it means Holder must prosecute George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, and other top officials who authorized waterboarding and the rest of the "Bush System of Torture," as Keith Olbermann calls it . Republicans pressured Mr. Holder to promise not to prosecute the torturers, but Mr. Holder refused. He said, "No one is above the law." That's exactly what President Obama said when ABC's George Stephanopoulos asked him our question on January 11. Of course Mr. Holder must also end eight years of absolute corruption under John Ashcroft, Alberto Gonzales, and Michael Mukasey. He must reverse George Bush's criminal policies on torture, habeas corpus, secret government, and warrantless wiretapping. How can Mr. Holder do it all? The best solution would be for Mr. Holder to quickly appoint a Special Prosecutor to focus exclusively on Bush's crimes. That would take these crimes off Mr. Holder's desk entirely, and ensure a thorough and nonpartisan investigation. In December, we launched a petition drive with our friends at Docudharma.com . Over 20,000 activists have already urged Mr. Holder to appoint a Special Prosecutor. Please join them: http://www.democrats.com/special-prosecutor-for-bush-war-crimes If you already signed, please user our petition form to encourage friends to sign. You can also call Mr. Holder's office at 202-514-2001 and leave a simple message: "Appoint a Special Prosecutor for George Bush's crimes." Thanks for all you do! Bob Fertik ##### Forward this message to everyone you know! To subscribe, create a free Democrats.com account here: http://www.democrats.com/user/register To unsubscribe from Democrats.com Activist Alerts, click here: http://archive.democrats.com/unsub.cfm?email=maryrose333 at att.net&fieldname=L 16 To unsubscribe from all Democrats.com email lists, click here: http://archive.democrats.com/unsub.cfm?email=maryrose333 at att.net&fieldname=L 1 From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 12:28:17 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:28:17 -0800 Subject: [GJM] It's Not Going to Be OK. Message-ID: <008301c987c7$e9052540$bb0f6fc0$@net> I found this in my Junk Mail box. Amazing what ends up there. But I consider it to be an extremely important message because what it ignores is the very important "BLESSED UNREST" movement as described by Paul Hawken in his book by the same name. And while Paul also describes it as the largest movement the world has ever seen, he also brings to light that it is largely ignored by the media. So, few know that it is taking place with all of the individuals and groups involved thinking they are acting alone and in isolation. And, while FutureDawning.org has many different functions, one of those is to unite this fragmented movement, particularly the sustainable living movement, the human consciousness movement, and the women's movement into one movement which can then create its own media explosion while at the same time attracting the myriad smaller movements into its coherence pattern. United we stand. In biology classes students learn that a single heart cell taken live and placed under a microscope for observation will soon go into fibrillation and die. However, if two cells are placed there even with a barrier erected between them, when brought close enough together, these cells will initially go into fibrillation but then will synchronize and the two cells begin to beat rhythmically in unison. As a result these cells can live for several days thus demonstrating that relationship is important. Bruce Lipton, Ph.D. as a cell biologist, was the first to discover that as soon as a seed or cell germinated, it was surrounded by an electromagnetic energy field which remains in place for life expanding as the body grows. This may be the "field of unlimited potential" to which some psychologists refer. In an adult it can be viewed through instrumentation as an "aura" which surrounds the body and may extend as much as 12 to 17 feet outward and from the head to the ankles. When two people come into close enough proximity with one another, their electromagnetic fields begin to interact and influence one another. How this interaction takes place may largely be as a result of the "intent" of the individuals involved. It also appears to be influenced by how the brain is configured, e.g., right or left brain - oriented or holographically/holodynamically centered, thus determining whether an individual is able to view the whole big picture or not. Note: Some individuals have the ability to see auras without the use of instrumentation. What science is revealing today is that an atom is but a miniaturized version of a cell, and that the cell is but a miniaturized version of the human body. Thus, by studying the behavior of atoms, cells and the human body we can learn how to design social systems that conform to nature's plan (The Implicate and Explicate Order) and which form a coherence pattern when things are in a state of peace. (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) It's Not Going to Be OK http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21889.htm By Chris Hedges February 02, 2009 "TruthDig" -- The daily bleeding of thousands of jobs will soon turn our economic crisis into a political crisis. The street protests, strikes and riots that have rattled France, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Iceland will descend on us. It is only a matter of time. And not much time. When things start to go sour, when Barack Obama is exposed as a mortal waving a sword at a tidal wave, the United States could plunge into a long period of precarious social instability. At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real. Our way of life is over. Our profligate consumption is finished. Our children will never have the standard of living we had. And poverty and despair will sweep across the landscape like a plague. This is the bleak future. There is nothing President Obama can do to stop it. It has been decades in the making. It cannot be undone with a trillion or two trillion dollars in bailout money. Our empire is dying. Our economy has collapsed. How will we cope with our decline? Will we cling to the absurd dreams of a superpower and a glorious tomorrow or will we responsibly face our stark new limitations? Will we heed those who are sober and rational, those who speak of a new simplicity and humility, or will we follow the demagogues and charlatans who rise up out of the slime in moments of crisis to offer fantastic visions? Will we radically transform our system to one that protects the ordinary citizen and fosters the common good, that defies the corporate state, or will we employ the brutality and technology of our internal security and surveillance apparatus to crush all dissent? We won't have to wait long to find out. There are a few isolated individuals who saw it coming. The political philosophers Sheldon S. Wolin, John Ralston Saul and Andrew Bacevich, as well as writers such as Noam Chomsky, Chalmers Johnson, David Korten and Naomi Klein, along with activists such as Bill McKibben and Ralph Nader, rang the alarm bells. They were largely ignored or ridiculed. Our corporate media and corporate universities proved, when we needed them most, intellectually and morally useless. Wolin, who taught political philosophy at the University of California in Berkeley and at Princeton, in his book "Democracy Incorporated" uses the phrase inverted totalitarianism to describe our system of power. Inverted totalitarianism, unlike classical totalitarianism, does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader. It finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions. Political candidates are elected in popular votes by citizens, but they must raise staggering amounts of corporate funds to compete. They are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists in Washington or state capitals who write the legislation. A corporate media controls nearly everything we read, watch or hear and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion or diverts us with trivia and celebrity gossip. In classical totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism the reverse is true," Wolin writes. "Economics dominates politics-and with that domination comes different forms of ruthlessness." I reached Wolin, 86, by phone at his home about 25 miles north of San Francisco. He was a bombardier in the South Pacific during World War II and went to Harvard after the war to get his doctorate. Wolin has written classics such as "Politics and Vision" and "Tocqueville Between Two Worlds." His newest book is one of the most important and prescient critiques to date of the American political system. He is also the author of a series of remarkable essays on Augustine of Hippo, Richard Hooker, David Hume, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Max Weber, Friedrich Nietzsche, Karl Marx and John Dewey. His voice, however, has faded from public awareness because, as he told me, "it is harder and harder for people like me to get a public hearing." He said that publications, such as The New York Review of Books, which often published his work a couple of decades ago, lost interest in his critiques of American capitalism, his warnings about the subversion of democratic institutions and the emergence of the corporate state. He does not hold out much hope for Obama. "The basic systems are going to stay in place; they are too powerful to be challenged," Wolin told me when I asked him about the new Obama administration. "This is shown by the financial bailout. It does not bother with the structure at all. I don't think Obama can take on the kind of military establishment we have developed. This is not to say that I do not admire him. He is probably the most intelligent president we have had in decades. I think he is well meaning, but he inherits a system of constraints that make it very difficult to take on these major power configurations. I do not think he has the appetite for it in any ideological sense. The corporate structure is not going to be challenged. There has not been a word from him that would suggest an attempt to rethink the American imperium." Wolin argues that a failure to dismantle our vast and overextended imperial projects, coupled with the economic collapse, is likely to result in inverted totalitarianism. He said that without "radical and drastic remedies" the response to mounting discontent and social unrest will probably lead to greater state control and repression. There will be, he warned, a huge "expansion of government power." "Our political culture has remained unhelpful in fostering a democratic consciousness," he said. "The political system and its operatives will not be constrained by popular discontent or uprisings." Wolin writes that in inverted totalitarianism consumer goods and a comfortable standard of living, along with a vast entertainment industry that provides spectacles and diversions, keep the citizenry politically passive. I asked if the economic collapse and the steady decline in our standard of living might not, in fact, trigger classical totalitarianism. Could widespread frustration and poverty lead the working and middle classes to place their faith in demagogues, especially those from the Christian right? "I think that's perfectly possible," he answered. "That was the experience of the 1930s. There wasn't just FDR. There was Huey Long and Father Coughlin. There were even more extreme movements including the Klan. The extent to which those forces can be fed by the downturn and bleakness is a very real danger. It could become classical totalitarianism." He said the widespread political passivity is dangerous. It is often exploited by demagogues who pose as saviors and offer dreams of glory and salvation. He warned that "the apoliticalness, even anti-politicalness, will be very powerful elements in taking us towards a radically dictatorial direction. It testifies to how thin the commitment to democracy is in the present circumstances. Democracy is not ascendant. It is not dominant. It is beleaguered. The extent to which young people have been drawn away from public concerns and given this extraordinary range of diversions makes it very likely they could then rally to a demagogue." Wolin lamented that the corporate state has successfully blocked any real debate about alternative forms of power. Corporations determine who gets heard and who does not, he said. And those who critique corporate power are given no place in the national dialogue. "In the 1930s there were all kinds of alternative understandings, from socialism to more extensive governmental involvement," he said. "There was a range of different approaches. But what I am struck by now is the narrow range within which palliatives are being modeled. We are supposed to work with the financial system. So the people who helped create this system are put in charge of the solution. There has to be some major effort to think outside the box." "The puzzle to me is the lack of social unrest," Wolin said when I asked why we have not yet seen rioting or protests. He said he worried that popular protests will be dismissed and ignored by the corporate media. This, he said, is what happened when tens of thousands protested the war in Iraq. This will permit the state to ruthlessly suppress local protests, as happened during the Democratic and Republic conventions. Anti-war protests in the 1960s gained momentum from their ability to spread across the country, he noted. This, he said, may not happen this time. "The ways they can isolate protests and prevent it from [becoming] a contagion are formidable," he said. "My greatest fear is that the Obama administration will achieve relatively little in terms of structural change," he added. "They may at best keep the system going. But there is a growing pessimism. Every day we hear how much longer the recession will continue. They are already talking about beyond next year. The economic difficulties are more profound than we had guessed and because of globalization more difficult to deal with. I wish the political establishment, the parties and leadership, would become more aware of the depths of the problem. They can't keep throwing money at this. They have to begin structural changes that involve a very different approach from a market economy. I don't think this will happen." "I keep asking why and how and when this country became so conservative," he went on. "This country once prided itself on its experimentation and flexibility. It has become rigid. It is probably the most conservative of all the advanced countries." The American left, he said, has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance. "The left is amorphous," he said. "I despair over the left. Left parties may be small in number in Europe but they are a coherent organization that keeps going. Here, except for Nader's efforts, we don't have that. We have a few voices here, a magazine there, and that's about it. It goes nowhere." FutureDawning.org Mary Rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com Always have my latest info Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 5 13:14:45 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:14:45 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [FixGov] FW: What recovery means for you Message-ID: <00a101c987ce$66326040$329720c0$@net> From: FixGov at yahoogroups.com [mailto:FixGov at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abbie Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:19 AM To: FixGov at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FixGov] FW: What recovery means for you I don't agree. The bankers were never in charge, but were in a position to have their way for a while, but they screwed things up so badly that they sunk not only the entire country but themselves as well. The real people in charge are the congressmen that have made a career out of being in the Senate and the House. They've become so powerful that the direction of the government goes with who can pay them the most. For a while it was Wall Street. These bankers will be replaced by the next band of corporate executives with enough money to buy Washington. Abbie http://fixthegov.wordpress.com Abbie, thanks for your comment, but from where I sit, it's the bankers and those who control the corporations who put the "career" congress persons into office. And, many of those who just pass through congress do so on their way to becoming the "K Street" lobbyists. Then you also have the money coming into the U.S. from the drug cartels which funnel an average of $500 billion into Wall Street to prop it up, and to those who control the political scene. As I wrote a few days ago, Citicorp was investigated several years back on drug laundering charges. Jeffrey Robinson is a very good source of information on this. http://www.sfb.com/speakers/jeffrey_robinson I've read his books: "The Laundrymen" and "The Merger" both of which reveal a lot about how the monetary system is bought and controlled. But to understand the whole story, one has to go back to the Neolithic Age and trace the trail of the descendents of the Nefilim/Annunaki down though the ages. This is told in both the Bible and in the translations of the Sumerian Tablets as revealed through Zecharia Sitchin's books: "The Earth Chronicles". Jim Marrs book: "Rule by Secrecy" is also very helpful as it details how information was passed down from generation to generation through "secret societies". mary rose wrote: > > What I feel this means is "Bullshit" disguised as hamburger. > > While Obama is doing some good token things to try and > > appease people, it's obvious the bankers are still in > > charge; > > when what we need is for the people to be in charge. > Message truncated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 23:06:39 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:36:39 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: Re: Attributes of Economists for addressing the challenges of petro-modern age Message-ID: <792493.82521.qm@web94916.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear all the esteemed members of the Global Justice Movement, ? Greetings for peace, ? I would like to share a mail suggesting the attributes of US leadership and all in discussing and worrying about the personal and collective wellbeiing. It is wonderful to realise the positive developments that has taken since then. Transition movement in US, Post Carbon Institute in US, Centre for Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governance in India are working for maximising ecologically sound responses at all levels. I would like to share a mail posted to GJM in 2004 with a sense of happiness for the actions that are taking place. ? Deshkal Society has been organising a lecture in Delhi by Prof. Stephen A Marglin who will be speaking on "?How thinking like an economist undermines community ".Stephen A. Marglin is a Professor of Economics and holds the Walter S Barker Chair in the Department of Economics at Harvard University. Marglin became a tenured professor at Harvard in 1968, one of the youngest in the history of the university. His tenure was largely based on research that attempted to combine a Marxian approach with Keynesian demand theory. Marglin writes from a socialist/communitarian point of view. He attempts to undermine basic assumptions of neoclassical orthodoxy, such as rational expectations and the evolutionary process of economic growth. His current research focuses on the foundational assumptions of economics, concentrating on whether they represent universal human values or merely reflect western culture and history. Marglin recently had another book published on economics called The Dismal Science: How thinking like an economist undermines community that has been published by the Harvard University Press. ? I would like to suggest that economists appreciate the need to like the following attributes: HE? SHOULD BE A PRACTITIONER OF PRAYER 5 TIMES A DAY AS THAT WILL ENABLE HIM TO MEDIATE BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO UNDO THE DAMAGE DONE TO ECOLOGY BY IMPLEMENTING MEASURES FOR DECELERATING CONSUMPTION OF FOSSIL FUEL BASED UTILITIES AND SERVICES SO AS TO REALIZE KYOTO PROTOCOL EMISSION TARGETS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE COMMON COMMANDS IN MONOTHEISTIC FRAMEWORK AS THAT IS NEEDED URGENTLY FOR ADDRESSING GLOBAL HEALTH AND SECURITY CHALLENGES HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO INSTITUTE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY BY PROMOTING DONATIONS FOR THE POOR. HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE NEED TO REFORM FINANCE SYSTEM AS PER THE COMMANDS OF ALLAH/GOD AGAINST USURY LONG LIVE THE WORLD CARING FOR THE CHILDREN,NEIGHBOURS AND FUTURE GENERATIONS Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Thu, 7/10/04, Muhammad Mukhtar Alam wrote: From: Muhammad Mukhtar Alam Subject: Re: [GJM] Attributes of US president and leadership in general for addressing the challenges of petro-modern age To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" Date: Thursday, 7 October, 2004, 12:59 PM Dear John, Whoever wins, I would like to pray for him for providing reverent leadership for citizens in US.He should have the following attributes: HE SHOULD BE A PRACTITIONER OF PRAYER 5 TIMES A DAY AS THAT WILL ENABLE HIM TO MEDIATE BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO UNDO THE DAMAGE DONE TO ECOLOGY BY IMPLEMENTING MEASURES FOR DECELERATING CONSUMPTION OF FOSSIL FUEL BASED UTILITIES AND SERVICES SO AS TO REALIZE KYOTO PROTOCOL EMISSION TARGETS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE COMMON COMMANDS IN MONOTHEISTIC FRAMEWORK AS THAT IS NEEDED URGENTLY FOR ADDRESSING GLOBAL HEALTH AND SECURITY CHALLENGES HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO INSTITUTE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY BY PROMOTING DONATIONS FOR THE POOR. HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE NEED TO REFORM FINANCE SYSTEM AS PER THE COMMANDS OF ALLAH/GOD AGAINST USURY LONG LIVE US WITH STRONG FAMILIES IN HARMONY WITH THE FAMILIES ALL OVER THE WORLD CARING FOR THE CHILDREN,NEIGHBOURS AND FUTURE GENERATIONS Wishing all the best Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam New Delhi --- John Gelles wrote: > > Today was a double header. At noon I saw Going Upriver: > The Long War of John Kerry and at night I watched the debate > between Edwards and Cheney. > > I rate the debate a draw. I rate the movie a winner !! > > I've joined my sons -- I'll vote for John. > > Who will win? Bush or Kerry. Will it make a difference? > If Kerry wins the chance for a difference is 50-50. If Bush > is re-elected, the chance for something better is 25%. > > My optimism (no matter that some may call it pessimism) is > associated with the thought that we may go to a two budget > system -- politically -- if not in fact: an expense budget and > capital budget. By planning a huge investment in a capital > budget we will accomplish the same spending as debt free > money might. Just another way to skin a cat. > > John> _______________________________________________ > Discussion mailing list > Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net > http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Grab now http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 6 04:26:37 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:26:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] Re: Michael Greaney's Anti-Social Credit Essay In-Reply-To: <708460.5498.qm@web54008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <770805.6756.qm@web27408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ?Interesting....there is also reference to accrual accounting here! ? R.Searle --- On Thu, 5/2/09, william_b_ryan at yahoo.com wrote: From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com Subject: [socialcredit] Re: Michael Greaney's Anti-Social Credit Essay To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Thursday, 5 February, 2009, 10:33 PM In continuation of my immediately preceding posting: Back to the December 14, 2001 document, Kurland/Greaney continue with this absurdity: http://www.geocities.com/socredus/kurland-greaney-depreciation/ "Not to keep saying it, but depreciation is a non-cash expense. It therefore, in that sense, 'contributes' to cash flow and purchasing power by having an expense item recorded which does NOT use cash, thereby freeing up the cash which otherwise would have been so used for other purposes, such as working capital. Depreciation does "improve" the cash flow picture to that extent because virtually every business in the developed world uses ACCRUAL accounting. Depreciation permits the "transformation" of a long-term asset (capital) into a liquid asset (cash) via expensing a pro-rata portion of the capital over time WITHOUT paying out the cash at that time. It's the same as if you were purchasing the asset with cash as you used it, but you've already laid out the cash ? now you're purchasing it, but without having to put out the cash. Over the long term, depreciation does not generate cash, but in the short term, on a period by period basis, it does." ------------------------------------------------------- "It [depreciation] therefore, in that sense, 'contributes' to cash flow and purchasing power by having an expense item recorded which does NOT use cash, thereby freeing up the cash which otherwise would have been so used for other purposes, such as working capital." No cash is freed up through depreciation. Cash is not affected whatsoever. "Depreciation permits the 'transformation' of a long-term asset (capital) into a liquid asset (cash) via expensing a pro-rata portion of the capital over time WITHOUT paying out the cash at that time." Keep in mind that this man is claiming to be both a CPA and MBA in writing this. Depreciation simply does NOT transform capital into cash. It is the expensing of something that was paid for or otherwise acquired in the past. "Over the long term, depreciation does not generate cash, but in the short term, on a period by period basis, it does." This statement is simply contradictory and nonsensical. Kurland/Greaney then follow with a sophomoric discussion relating Say's law to double entry accounting. "Social credit upsets the steady state of Say's Law and violates the principles of double-entry bookkeeping by adding to one side while subtracting from the other side. Of course Douglas rejected Say's Law ? it CANNOT work in his system." A simplification of Say's law is the assertion that "supply creates it own demand." Douglas said that in barter, supply creates its own demand, but in a monetary economy there is no necessary connection between supply and demand. From his "Interim Report" to the government of Alberta: http://geocities.com/socredus/compendium/interim-report.txt "...Effective demand originated in the barter system, that is to say, individuals parted with a surplus of real wealth in their possession to obtain in exchange real wealth of a different variety for which they had a need...In the modern world, however, the preponderating feature in effective demand which is universally employed to carry on the world's business is what is technically called a "credit instrument," of which there are several forms. For the purposes of this preamble it is only necessary to consider the cheque... "While it is clear that under a barter system there is always sufficient effective demand although it may be inequitably distributed, under a money or cheque system both inequitable and ineffective demand are certain unless production and demand are consciously and systematically related." So it isn't simply that Say's law can't work in Douglas's system, it was Douglas's assertion that it doesn't work automatically in the real world. "Bill, you contend that <> Again, for reasons explained above, cash freed up by accounting for depreciation can be used to close this purchasing power deficiency, even more so under a binary economic system where capital ownership and profit distributions are widespread." But to repeat, cash is not "freed up" through depreciation. Cash may be paid from the cash account in the form of dividends. It will always be insufficient to close the purchasing power gap because of retained working account balances and profit locked into fixed capital. Going forward to the March 11, 2002 document: "Your [meaning me] basic problem with respect to depreciation appears to be that you overlook the fact that cash may be received or disbursed at some time in the past or future. At the same time, cash may not be recognized as having been received or disbursed at the time it actually comes into or goes out of the company. Depreciation expense - and the author of the quote you selected makes this clear to someone who understands the nature of accrual basis accounting - is a way to recognize in the current period the disbursement of cash that took place in a prior period." In accounting, cash is "recognized" when it is actually received or disbursed. Depreciation is the periodic expensing of something that was purchased in the past. "By means of 'depreciation,' the cash that went out of the company in some earlier accounting period is 'recognized' as going out of the company in the current period." Greaney, under the guise of his "CPA" and "MBA" is simply making something up about accounting. He is either an incompetent accountant or lying. In accounting, cash that went in some prior period was recognized as going out in that prior period. It is not recognized as going out in the current period. "An 'accounts payable' does the same thing for the purchase of an item that depreciation does for its use. That is, the cash was recognized as 'going out' of the company at the time of purchase, even though the actual cash did not 'go out' of the company until a later period when the company paid the invoice." Again, Greaney is demonstrating that he is either incompetent or lying. In accounting, cash is recognized as "going out" only when it actually goes out, that is to say, when the invoice is paid. "'Accounts payable' is a recognition by the company on the balance sheet that the cash has not yet been disbursed - although the disbursement has already been recognized on the income statement." No, the expense has been recognized on the income statement, not the disbursement. Greaney then continues with a philosophical argument having to do with money that has nothing to do with accounting: "Returning to the balance sheet, let us assume the simplest case where all current assets are solely in the form of cash. The question immediately arises: is all that cash available for the purposes of the company? The answer is, 'not necessarily.' A good deal of the cash may already belong to somebody else, even if it is sitting right there in the company's checking account. For example, if the company stopped paying its bills, it could build up a rather sizable cash balance - but it would have no legitimate claim on that cash." - "A good deal of the cash may already belong to somebody else, even if it is sitting right there in the company's checking account." The cash is an asset of the firm. It belongs to the firm. "For example, if the company stopped paying its bills, it could build up a rather sizable cash balance - but it would have no legitimate claim on that cash." The firm has complete and absolute claim on that cash. It is the property of the firm. If the firm stops paying its bills, it is building up its indebtedness with its suppliers. "That is how an increase in accounts payable is construed as a source of working capital. Such an increase does nothing to increase the cash actually held by the company, but it does allow cash held by the company to be used for other things in the interim before paying the bills." Not paying bills does actually increase the amount of cash the firm would otherwise not have. "The use of that cash may also have been allocated internally - it may not be available for general needs of the company. To determine whether the company may legitimately use its cash for various purposes, we need to look at other accounts on the balance sheet." This is ridiculous. What the firm uses its cash for is a management decision. It's not something you will find on the balance sheet. "We may have a million dollars in cash in the company, but if accounts payable are also a million dollars, we, effectively, have no cash - all the cash on hand belongs to the people to whom we owe the million dollars." No no no. Just absurd crank accounting from this self-proclaimed "CPA" and "MBA." If there is a million dollars in cash the firm has a million dollars in cash. The amount of cash on hand is irrelevant to accounts payables. The cash on hand simply is an asset that belongs to the firm, not its creditors. "We are morally and legally obligated to pay $100,000 to our creditor in that instance, and not divert the cash to our own use." This is the guy who pontificates to us on Catholic doctrine and morality. Accounting is irrelevant to morality and legality. The cash is the firm's property to do with as it wishes. Whatever it does with it is a management decision. This is also the guy who lectures us about property rights. "Even though we have the cash in our possession, it does not belong to us. It belongs to the people to whom we owe it." By the rules and definitions of accounting, but also in law and morality, it most certainly does belong to us. This man is both a crank accountant and a crank moralist. "What depreciation expense does, however, is legitimize the use of that cash for working capital purposes by changing (reclassifying) the cash 'tied up' in long-term assets by expensing the long-term asset and freeing up the expensed amount for other purposes." This is just something this crank accountant dreamed up. Cash is simply not "tied up" in long term assets. Cash is certainly not "freed up" through depreciation. Summary: >From December 2001 through March 2002, the dynamic duo of Norm Kurland and Michael Greaney posted some fifty thousand words demeaning Social Credit as argued by me, and promoting the Binary Economics of Louis Kelso. Stripping it all down to its essence, casting away the nonsense about Say's law and accounting, Social Credit and Binary Economics both agree that there is a gap between productive capacity and purchasing power. They differ as to the cause of that gap and its solution. In Binary Economics, the cause of the gap is the fact that earnings are retained by firms. The solution would seem to be the requirement that firms pay out the totality of their earnings through dividends. The problem with this solution is that it is inadequate by itself because presently capital is too narrowly owned, that the owners are incapable of spending the totality of their potential dividend earnings through their personal consumption of the products of industry. Industry is capable of producing more than they personally can consume. So the Binarians additionally propose a series of financial procedures to more broadly disburse the ownership of capital. At this point it becomes a kind of "propensity to consume" argument. At some time in the future capital will become more broadly owned by people with a greater "propensity to consume" than the present narrow ownership. Thereby the gap between productive capacity and purchasing power will be closed. Social Credit counters that even if profit is paid out fully to a broadly based ownership with a higher propensity to consume, it would remain inadequate to close the gap between productive capacity and purchasing power. It is also a very big "if," because it is not possible to pay profit out fully because some of it must remain as working capital by the firms. And much of it must remain in the form of fixed capital and not cash. These are practical realities pointing to the inadequacy of Binary Economics. Regardless of the merits or demerits of a more broadly based ownership, dividends or their equivalent must be paid to final consumers that are not costed into the prices of production. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 11:26:07 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:26:07 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Opportunity knocks when it comes to a local food economy Message-ID: <000701c98888$669f8570$33de9050$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:01 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Opportunity knocks when it comes to a local food economy (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Published Feb 5 2009 by Energy Bulletin Archived Feb 5 2009 Opportunity knocks when it comes to a local food economy by Olga Bonfiglio http://www.energybulletin.net/node/47980 Community-based agriculture has the potential for creating jobs, developing small business entrepreneurship and keeping precious dollars in the community. "As manufacturing jobs decrease, food jobs are increasing," said Dr. Kami Pothukuchi, associate professor of urban planning at Wayne State University in Detroit. This is especially good news for a state like Michigan whose economic engine has been dependent on the declining automobile industry. Out of a total GDP of $381 billion, agriculture is the state's second largest industry pulling in $63.7 billion annually compared to $68.4 billion from manufacturing, according to the Michigan Department of Agriculture (MDA) and the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. However, the present "industrialized food system" is made up of a handful of "mega-corporations" that control food production, processing, distribution and preparation, said Pothukuchi. Change to a community-based system is difficult because these corporations have a lot at stake in keeping the current system. The U.S. industrialized food system was designed in the 1950s to increase production in order to provide the nation with cheap and plentiful food that was easily accessible. As a result, the United States became a top food producer in the world. A variety of food-related jobs in processing, marketing and distribution also emerged even though the number of farmers declined. The U.S. Department of Agriculture Census (USDA) reported that farms increased in size averaging 155 acres in 1935, a peak year when the country had 6.8 million farms, compared to 2002 when farms averaged 441 acres and numbered 2.1 million farms. It is important to remember that the industrial food system was developed at a time when most American businesses were creating systems for mass production and economies of scale. Because volume is critical to the profitability of this system, farming methods developed to support a large-scale, energy-intensive monoculture that uses huge amounts of water and chemicals for herbicides, insecticides, and fertilizers. Tons of animal waste products also accumulate and pollute land, water and air because factory farming methods keep animals indoors and free of disease instead of allowing them to graze in pastures. Actually, the costs of the industrialized food system outweigh its benefits. For example, most food in the industrialized system ends up in supermarkets after traveling an average 1,300 miles to get there. Fruits and vegetables may spend seven to fourteen days in transit. So freshness and taste are sacrificed for the ability to travel. Transporting products has been possible through cheap fuel. However, when oil reached over $100 a barrel last spring, the expense incurred over such long distances proved problematic. For example, world food prices averaged a 43 percent increase over the past year, which inadvertently created a global food crisis that is causing political and economical instability and social unrest in both poor and developed nations. Unseasonable droughts in grain-producing nations also affects high food prices just as falling stockpiles, the increased use of biofuels in developed countries and increasing demands for meat products in Asia's middle class, according the BBC (May 2008). The Consumer Price Index estimates that U.S. retail food prices increased in 2007 by only 4 percent, but this is the largest spike in 17 years-with more expected to come. Industrial farming practices were developed when world population was only 2 billion. While they increased the carrying capacity of the earth then, they are slowly destroying the earth's long-term carrying capacity for today's population, which is 6.7 billion and climbing. Over the past two decades as the industrialized food system has expanded to the global level, concerns over food safety have emerged, like the recent tainted food imports from China. The industrialized food system has had a detrimental effect on the local economy, said Pothukuchi. Our food system should be designed to be a community-based system that revolves around small, polycultural farms that practice sustainable agriculture, preserve regional biodiversity and help build local economies. This is already being done in many ways. First, local food networks like community gardens, food co-ops, Community-Supported Agriculture (CSA), farmers' markets, and seed savers groups keep money in the community. Second, as more people prefer organic food products, organic farming represents a profitable alternative for local economic growth and sustainable agriculture since organic farmers tend to sell to local markets (within 150 miles). More acreage is being dedicated to organic farming. >From 1997 to 2005, the number of U.S. certified organic acres grew by 63 percent, while Michigan certified organic farmland increased by 166 percent. In actuality, the number of industrialized farms converting to organic farming methods remains steady, but small. Michigan's 45,500 certified organic acres comprise only .4 percent of the state's total farmland and 1 percent of the total 4,000,000 certified organic acres in the country according to the Michigan Organic Farm and Food Alliance (MOFFA). But the potential for growth is there, especially when organic food processors/handlers are figured into the economic mix. The USDA reports that there were over 3000 organic-certified facilities nationwide in 2004, with 41 percent of those located on the Pacific Coast and almost 800 in California alone. Local organic food is admittedly more expensive than food from industrialized farms, however, organic advocates claim that prices in the industrialized food system are cheap because the true cost omits governmental price supports, direct payments or tax breaks and road infrastructure. Third, colleges and universities across the country are looking for ways to support sustainable agriculture. One way they are doing it is by supplying their cafeterias with food grown by local farmers. These institutions teach students how to grow backyard and community gardens as well as food-related careers like urban farming. Pothukuchi started an urban gardening program at Wayne State, which is distinguished as the largest inner-city campus with a comprehensive food systems program that is not run by an agriculture school. Some areas of the state are actively recruiting youth for community-based farming careers through hands-on learning situations. The 4-H Entrepreneurs Club in Kalkaska County has youth pick and buy produce at area farms in order to sell it at five different farmers markets. There are similar programs in Detroit and Monroe County. Fourth, regions like Grand Traverse, are rebuilding their local economies through agriculture by forming partnerships among businesspeople, economic developers, schools, grocers, restaurateurs and food retailers, reported the Great Lakes Bulletin News Service. As these partnerships work to bring more food-related jobs to the area, they not only support local farmers but they also protect precious income-producing farmlands from being overtaken by urban sprawl. The Michigan Land Use Institute (MLUI) speculates that the Grand Traverse region could stimulate more job growth and entrepreneurship by supporting its 2,229 farms through cooperative efforts like the Food and Farm Network. Moreover, a 2006 MLUI study found that farms could generate 1,889 new jobs across the state and $187 million in new personal income by selling more fresh produce locally. Fifth, state programs can provide yet another opportunity for local economic development, like the MDA's Agricultural Innovation Program. This competitive grant seeks to establish, retain, expand, attract or develop value-added processing and production operations in Michigan through innovative financing assistance to processors, agribusinesses, producers, local units of government and legislatively-authorized commodity boards in Michigan. All these efforts for change, however, have barely dented the deeply-entrenched industrialized food system. Michigan residents, for example, spend $26 billion on food with only 10 percent from the state's farmers, according to a 2001 MLUI study. "Michigan has the second most diverse agriculture in the United States [with 150 crops]," said Pothukuchi. "We could add another $2.6 billion to the state's economy if we increased production of local food by another 10 percent." Olga Bonfiglio is a professor at Kalamazoo College in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and author of "Heroes of a Different Stripe: How One Town Responded to the War in Iraq." She has written for several national magazines on the subjects of social justice and religion. Her website is www.OlgaBonfiglio.com. From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 12:52:05 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:52:05 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [FixGov] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 Message-ID: <001601c98894$6620c210$32624630$@net> Good stuff happening. With love and appreciation to all. m r -----Original Message----- From: FixGov at yahoogroups.com [mailto:FixGov at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tranet at rangeley.org Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 6:41 PM To: FixGov FixGov Subject: Re: [FixGov] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 > From: Vernon Woolf [mailto:VernonWoolf at HoloDynamics.com] > > ... Our current chaos in economics and governance is a prelude to a > new system. We can collapse or we can change our way of life. It's not > a difficult choice: we change or die. Our old "continual growth and > consumption" system was never sustainable. The new system is based on > a balance of resources economy and governance system. If you have a > better plan, please let us know. ... [snip] BE: Well said, Vern. Too few see the collapse of the past economic/social system as an opportunity for real CHANGE. The King is dead. Long live the KIng. Even Obama seems more interested in bailing out the failed and failing system than on creating a new one. His list of advisors and cabinet posts ( Rahm Emanuel, Greeg Judd, Lawrence Summers, Hilary Clinton etc.] are the same list of people who created the failure. Creative economists like Herman Daily, Joseph Stiglitz, Paul Hawken, Dean Baker, Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, Leo Hinderberry and many other progressive thinkers are waiting in the wings. In spite of Obamas slowness to create the change he promised it is happening. We-the-people are creating local opportunities with local skills and local resources. Local food co-ops. Local scripts, CoHousing, Peer Lending, LETS, Community Loan Funds, homeschooling, community learning centers, and many others are slowly growing in size and numbers. The old values of self-interest, competition and materialism are finally recognized as the evil they are. New values of public interest, cooperation, and the health of Gaia (the Earth and ALL of its life forms] is taking over. Corporate greed and consumerism are being seen for what they are -- formulas for disaster. There is hope that voices like yours will make it to rooms in the White House. Bill Ellis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGaianParadigm/files/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FixGov/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FixGov/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:FixGov-digest at yahoogroups.com mailto:FixGov-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: FixGov-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 12:58:19 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:58:19 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Revealing News: Wall Street Bailout to Rise by $2 Trillion, CIA Renditions to Continue, Foreclosure Defense, More Message-ID: <001701c98895$45938450$d0ba8cf0$@net> From: PEERS: WantToKnow.info Email List [mailto:emaillist at peerservice.org] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:23 AM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Revealing News: Wall Street Bailout to Rise by $2 Trillion, CIA Renditions to Continue, Foreclosure Defense, More To subscribe to or unsubscribe from this list (one email every few days) or to reply to this message, see end of email This message is available online at http://www.WantToKnow.info/009/090206_bailout_cia_renditions_foreclosure_defense Dear friends, Below are excerpts of important news articles you may have missed. These news articles include revealing information on the Obama administration's plans to increase the Wall Street bank bailout by another $2 trillion, its plans to continue the use of "extraordinary rendition" by the CIA, a foreclosure defense strategy promoted by a senior Congress member, and more. Each excerpt is taken verbatim from the major media website listed at the link provided. If any link fails to function, click here . Key sentences are highlighted for those with limited time. By choosing to educate ourselves and to spread the word , we can and will build a brighter future. With best wishes, Tod Fletcher and Fred Burks for PEERS and the WantToKnow.info Team Note: We depend on your support to continue this empowering work. Please consider making a contribution by visiting www.WantToKnow.info/donationswtk. The 2008 annual report for PEERS has now been posted and is available at www.peerservice.org/annual_report/2008_peers_annual_report. We invite you to take a look and see all of the exciting developments going on with WantToKnow.info and PEERS. New Bank Bailout Could Cost $2 Trillion January 29, 2009, Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123319689681827391.html Government officials seeking to revamp the U.S. financial bailout have discussed spending another $1 trillion to $2 trillion to help restore banks to health, according to people familiar with the matter. President Barack Obama's new administration is wrestling with how to stem the continuing loss of confidence in the financial system, as it divides up the remaining $350 billion from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program launched last fall. The potential size of rescue efforts being discussed suggests the administration may need to ask Congress for more funds. The administration is expected to take a series of steps, including relieving banks of bad loans and distressed securities. The so-called "bad bank" that would buy these assets could be seeded with $100 billion to $200 billion from the TARP funds, with the rest of the money -- as much as $1 trillion to $2 trillion -- raised by selling government-backed debt or borrowing from the Federal Reserve. The administration is also seeking more effective ways to pump money into banks, and is considering buying common shares in the banks. Government purchases so far have been of preferred shares, in an effort to both protect taxpayers and avoid diluting existing shareholders' stakes. Given the weakened state of the banking industry, with bank share prices low and their capital needs high, economists say the government probably can't avoid owning at least some banks for a temporary period. Note: Note that the U.S. government has to borrow from the Federal Reserve, which most people don't realize is privately owned by the richest banks. For more on this, click here. The $2 trillion of taxpayer money for Wall Street's toxic assets revealed here is in addition to over $7 trillion already committed according to CNN and others . Wouldn't government debt of this magnitude threaten a broad range of government services and risk seriously weakening the dollar? For many other revealing reports on the Wall Street bailout, click here . Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool February 1, 2009, Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-rendition1-2009feb01,0,4661244.story The CIA's secret prisons are being shuttered. Harsh interrogation techniques are off-limits. And Guantanamo Bay will eventually go back to being a wind-swept naval base on the southeastern corner of Cuba. But even while dismantling these programs, President Obama left intact an equally controversial counter-terrorism tool. Under executive orders issued by Obama recently, the CIA still has authority to carry out what are known as renditions, secret abductions and transfers of prisoners to countries that cooperate with the United States. Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism -- aside from Predator missile strikes -- for taking suspected terrorists off the street. The rendition program became a source of embarrassment for the CIA, and a target of international scorn, as details emerged in recent years of botched captures, mistaken identities and allegations that prisoners were turned over to countries where they were tortured. The European Parliament condemned renditions as "an illegal instrument used by the United States." Prisoners swept up in the program have sued the CIA as well as a Boeing Co. subsidiary accused of working with the agency on dozens of rendition flights. But the Obama administration appears to have determined that the rendition program was one component of the Bush administration's war on terrorism that it could not afford to discard. The decision underscores the fact that the [War on Terror] is far from over. Note: For key reports from reliable sources on the hidden realities of the War on Terror, click here . Facing foreclosure? Don't leave. Squat February 4, 2009, San Francisco Chronicle (San Francisco's leading newspaper) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/04/EDK215MNA0.DTL Marcy Kaptur of Ohio is the longest-serving Democratic congresswoman in U.S. history. Her district, stretching along the shore of Lake Erie from west of Cleveland to Toledo, faces an epidemic of home foreclosures and 11.5 percent unemployment. Now, she is recommending a radical foreclosure solution from the floor of the U.S. Congress: "So I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes. Don't you leave." She criticizes the bailout's failure to protect homeowners facing foreclosure. These mortgages were made, then bundled into securities and sold and resold repeatedly, by the very Wall Street banks that are now benefiting from [a government bailout]. The banks foreclosing on families very often can't locate the actual loan note that binds the homeowner to the bad loan. "Produce the note," Kaptur recommends [to] those facing foreclosure demands of the banks. "[P]ossession is nine-tenths of the law," Rep. Kaptur [said]. "Therefore, stay in your property. Get proper legal representation ... [if] Wall Street cannot produce the deed nor the mortgage audit trail ... you should stay in your home. It is your castle. It's more than a piece of property. ... If you look at the bad paper, if you look at where there's trouble, 95 to 98 percent of the paper really has moved to five institutions: JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wachovia, Citigroup and HSBC. They have this country held by the neck." Note: Why is it that with the trillions of dollars given by the U.S. government to prop up banks who used shady loan practices, so few homeowners facing foreclosure have received any assistance? For many revealing reports on the realities of the Wall Street bailout, click here . House Arrest for Madoff in $7 Million Apartment December 17, 2008, abcnews.com http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6480363 Bernard Madoff, accused of the largest fraud in U.S. history, will be allowed to remain in his $7 million Park Avenue apartment instead of being sent to jail, under terms of an agreement announced today by federal prosecutors. Madoff was unable to meet the bond conditions set last week by a federal magistrate which required him to get four people to sign his personal recognizance bond. According to the U.S. Attorney's office, only Madoff's wife and brothers were willing to sign the document. But instead of ordering him held in jail, prosecutors agreed to home detention with electronic monitoring. Madoff and his luxury apartment on Manhattan's upper east side will be fitted with an electronic monitoring device by the court's pre-trial services and Madoff will be under a curfew of between 7 p.m. through 9 a.m. Madoff's wife agreed to post the mansions in her name in Palm Beach, Florida and in Montauk on New York's Long Island. The Securities and Exchange Commission chairman said today the agency has found "no evidence of wrongdoing by any SEC personnel" in connection with Madoff's alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme and that the SEC intends to get to the bottom of where it may have gone wrong. "I was very concerned to learn this week that credible allegations about Mr. Madoff had been made over nearly a decade and yet never referred to the commission for action," Commissioner Christopher Cox said at a press conference. Yesterday, Cox acknowledged what amounted to a generational failure on the part of the SEC to discover any hint of Madoff's scheme, despite allegations dating back to 1999. Note: Why is the criminal responsible for the largest single banking scandal in history given house arrest rather than jail before his trial? Isn't it remarkable that the hands-off treatment Madoff received over the years from the SEC seems to be continuing from the Federal prosecutors? For more on Wall Street corruption, click here . Bad bank + toxic debts = moral hazard x10 February 2, 2009, MarketWatch.com http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Bad-bank-toxic-debt-one/ BusinessWeek says Paulson/Bush & Co. wasted $350 billion in TARP money ... the Congressional Budget Office and GOP say Obama & Co. will waste another $800 billion on "non-stimulus" programs ... Nobel economist [Joseph Stiglitz] calls [the Bad Bank] plan "cash for trash" ... Warning, you are entering a bizarre space-time continuum ... where Wall Street makes random quantum leaps between metaphoric realities. In the "Lost" television series we're transported into a parallel reality, a perfect metaphor for today's global economic meltdown, which is misunderstood and grossly mismanaged. Wall Street crashed ... on the "Lost Island ... of Manhattan," the former center of world banking. The collateral damage has been enormous: Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, global trade, Iceland. [Wall Street's] clueless leaders ... are "Lost" with no bottom, no recovery, no strategy in sight. A new president, a secretive Fed and an old Congress are throwing around taxpayer trillions like free candy ... on top of Bush's "$10 Trillion Hangover" ...after a clueless Wall Street wrote off trillions in toxic debt, then wasted $350 billion in TARP bailout money, buying $50 million private jets, attending golf outings at exclusive resorts, spending millions on CEO's office renovations and paying $18 billion in year-end bonuses. Hope masks denial: Even President Obama's consultant [Warren] Buffett acknowledges that the proposed stimulus plan "might not work." The stimulus might not work? What if this last bullet is a blank? Should you prepare for the worst-case scenario? Note: For many revealing reports on the realities of the Wall Street bailout, click here . The Political Suspicions of 9/11 February 2, 2009, New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/business/media/02fx.html A coming episode of the acclaimed FX drama ?Rescue Me? will tackle what may sound like a far-fetched plot line: that the attacks of Sept. 11 were an ?inside job.? The actor who espouses the theories on camera, it turns out, also subscribes to them in real life. The second episode of ?Rescue Me?s? fifth season, starting in April, may represent the first fictional presentation of 9/11 conspiracy theories by a mainstream media company (FX is operated by the News Corporation). ?They?re not discussed a lot in the press,? Daniel Sunjata, the actor who plays Franco Rivera on ?Rescue Me,? told reporters at a television press tour last month. In the episode, Mr. Sunjata?s character [describes] a ?neoconservative government effort? to control the world?s oil, drastically increase military spending and ?change the definition of pre-emptive attack.? To put it into action, he continues, ?what you need is a new Pearl Harbor. That?s what they said they needed.? Mr. Sunjata surprised some of the TV reporters when he said that he ?absolutely, 100 percent? supports the assertion that ?9/11 was an inside job.? The alternative theories ?seem to me to make a lot more sense than the ones that are popularly espoused,? he said, calling it admirable that the conversation was allowed within ?Rescue Me.? Peter Tolan, an executive producer, said Mr. Sunjata is ?well read? and has ?done a lot of research.? ?Look, obviously not all of us buy in,? he told reporters. ?But we went: ?Wow, that?s interesting, and he?s passionate about it. Let?s use that.? ? Note: For a powerful two-page summary of key unanswered questions from major media sources about what really happened on 9/11, click here . To read charges by hundreds of professors and top politicians claiming that the U.S. government is lying about 9/11, click here . Exxon Mobil sets record with $45.2 billion profit January 30, 2009, Miami Herald/Associated Press http://www.miamiherald.com/business/nation/story/879748.html Exxon Mobil Corp. ... reported a profit of $45.2 billion for 2008, breaking its own record for a U.S. company. The previous record for annual profit was $40.6 billion, which the world's largest publicly traded oil company set in 2007. The extraordinary full-year profit wasn't a surprise given crude's triple-digit price for much of 2008, peaking near an unheard of $150 a barrel in July. Since then, however, prices have fallen roughly 70 percent amid a deepening global economic crisis. In the fourth quarter alone crude tumbled 60 percent, prompting spending and job cuts in an industry that was reporting robust, often record, profits as recently as last summer. Irving, Texas-based Exxon said net income slid sharply to $7.8 billion, or $1.55 a share, in the October-December period. That compared with $11.7 billion, or $2.13 a share, in the same period a year ago, when Exxon set a U.S. record for quarterly profit. It has since topped that mark twice, first in last year's second quarter and then with earnings of $14.83 billion in the third quarter. Revenue in the most-recent quarter fell 27 percent to $84.7 billion. The industry went into retrenchment toward the end of the year with demand falling. The company, which produces about 3 percent of the world's oil, said overall output fell 3 percent in the most-recent period. For the full year, Exxon Mobil's massive profit amounted to $8.69 a share, versus $7.28 a share a year ago. Note: How can it be said that this record-breaking profit "wasn't a surprise," when ethically we would all expect the oil companies not to gouge consumers world-wide at the time when oil prices were artificially driven to record highs? Why should the oil companies be allowed to rake in huge profits causing the vast majority of us to suffer even greater losses at the gas pump? This is generally called gross profiteering. Shouldn't these "windfall profits" should be taxed away? Intelligence Agencies' Databases Set to Be Linked January 22, 2009, Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258232280204323.html U.S. spy agencies' sensitive data should soon be linked by Google-like search systems. Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell has launched a sweeping technology program to knit together the thousands of databases across all 16 spy agencies. After years of bureaucratic snafus, intelligence analysts will be able to search through secret intelligence files the same way they can search public data on the Internet. Linking up the 16 agencies is the challenge at the heart of the job of director of national intelligence, created after 9/11. The new information program also is designed to include Facebook-like social-networking programs and classified news feeds. It includes enhanced security measures to ensure that only appropriately cleared people can access the network. The price tag is expected to be in the billions of dollars. The impact for analysts, Mr. McConnell says, "will be staggering." Not only will analysts have vastly more data to examine, potentially inaccurate intelligence will stand out more clearly, he said. Today, an analyst's query might scan only 5% of the total intelligence data in the U.S. government, said a senior intelligence official. Even when analysts find documents, they sometimes can't read them without protracted negotiations to gain access. Under the new system, an analyst would likely search about 95% of the data, the official said. Note: For key reports from reliable sources on the hidden realities of the War on Terror, click here . Letter from the Grave January 12, 2009, The New Yorker magazine http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/stevecoll/2009/01/letter-from-the.html [On January 8] Lasantha Wickramatunga, who was fifty-two years old and the editor of a Sri Lankan newspaper called The Sunday Leader, was assassinated on his way to work by two gunmen riding motorcycles. The Leader?s investigative reporting had been fiercely critical of the government and of the conduct of its war against Tamil separatists; Wickramatunga had been attacked before. He knew that he was likely to be murdered and so he wrote an essay with instructions that it be published only after his own death. Read it in full below: "No other profession calls on its practitioners to lay down their lives for their art save the armed forces and, in Sri Lanka, journalism. In the course of the past few years, the independent media have increasingly come under attack. Electronic and print-media institutions have been burnt, bombed, sealed and coerced. Countless journalists have been harassed, threatened and killed. It has been my honor to belong to all those categories and now especially the last. We find ourselves in the midst of a civil war ruthlessly prosecuted by protagonists whose bloodlust knows no bounds. Terror, whether perpetrated by terrorists or the state, has become the order of the day. Indeed, murder has become the primary tool whereby the state seeks to control the organs of liberty. Today it is the journalists, tomorrow it will be the judges. For neither group have the risks ever been higher or the stakes lower. Note: Click on the link above to read this deeply moving letter from a martyr for truth in its entirety. Key Articles From Years Past US airman Milton Torres told to shoot down UFO when based at RAF Manston October 20, 2008, Times of London http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4974540.ece The order came straight out of the Cold War manual: ?Arm all weapons and fire on sight.? For Lieutenant Milton Torres, an American jet fighter pilot based in Britain, it was the first and last time that he had received such a chilling instruction. As soon as he scrambled his Sabre jet from RAF Manston in Kent and headed eastwards, he saw the blip on his radar, indicating the presence of an aircraft the size of a B52 about 15 miles away, and he prepared to close in for the kill with a salvo of rockets. But the ?aircraft?, judged to be hostile and probably Russian, simply vanished. The blip on the radar disappeared. The 24-year-old American pilot's extraordinary experience on the night of May 20, 1957, which he was officially ordered never to reveal to anyone, has come to light after the declassification of another batch of Ministry of Defence files relating to reported incidents of unidentified flying objects appearing in British airspace ? in this case the only known example of a jet fighter pilot being ordered to shoot down a UFO. Mr Torres, now 77 and a retired professor of civil engineering living in Miami, told The Times that the day after he was scrambled from RAF Manston he received a visit from an American in a trenchcoat who waved a National Security Agency identity card at him and warned him that, if he ever revealed what had happened, he would never fly again. He took the warning to heart and said nothing until 1988 when, through a solicitor with an interest in ufology, he sent the Ministry of Defence a report giving a full account of the incident. Today his narrative is released by the National Archives. Note: For a highly revealing summary of key evidence for UFOs presented by respected military and government officials, click here . Zenn and the art of small, electric vehicles August 15, 2008, MSNBC/Forbes Autos http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26140663 It might sound surprising, but all-electric vehicles are already on American roads. They just haven't quite made it to the highway yet. A growing cottage industry of Neighborhood Electric Vehicle [NEV] manufacturers is spurring the development of cars like the Zenn, which has reached a state of vehicular enlightenment so advanced it doesn't even need a tail pipe. "We saw this car in May of '06, and all of us were just freaking out: 'Finally, a car!'" said Steve Mayeda, sales manager at Seattle-based MC Electric Vehicles, which sells 30 percent of Zenn's U.S. inventory, in addition to electric vehicles made by Columbia, Canadian EV, E-Ride and Miles. "Zenn was the first neighborhood electric car that actually looked and felt and drove like a real car. Everything else before that was either a converted golf cart or a car that was built from the ground up." NEVs are silent, have no tailpipe emissions (or tailpipes, for that matter) and plug into electrical outlets like vacuum cleaners. They come in two varieties: Low-Speed Electric Vehicles, which have a top speed of about 25 miles per hour and are restricted to roads where the speed limit is 35 miles per hour or less; and Medium-Speed Electric Vehicles, which reach 35 mph and are allowed on roads with a posted speed of up to 45 mph. They're exempt from federal safety regulations that mandate impact-absorbing bumpers and airbags. But to be street legal, NEVs must have three-point seat belts, windshields with wipers, headlights, brake lights, rearview mirrors and turn signals. Note: Note: For a fun, six-minute video demonstration of the Zenn, click here. Of Two Minds May 8, 2005, New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/08/magazine/08WWLN.html Scientists are able to get some idea of what's going on in the mind by using brain scanners. Now it is possible to infer what tiny groups of neurons are up to, not just larger areas of the brain. A technology called functional magnetic resonance imaging can reveal which part of your brain is most active when you're solving a mathematical puzzle, say, or memorizing a list of words. A couple of weeks ago, two scientists revealed that they had found a way to peer directly into your brain and tell what you are looking at, even when you yourself are not yet aware of what you have seen. Last year, Tibetan Buddhist monks ... submitted to functional magnetic resonance imaging as they practiced "compassion meditation," which is aimed at achieving a mental state of pure loving kindness toward all beings. The brain scans showed only a slight effect in novice meditators. But for monks who had spent more than 10,000 hours in meditation, the differences in brain function were striking. Activity in the left prefrontal cortex, the locus of joy, overwhelmed activity in the right prefrontal cortex, the locus of anxiety. Activity was also heightened in the areas of the brain that direct planned motion, as if the monks' brains were itching to go to the aid of those in distress. All of which suggests, say the scientists who carried out the scans, that "the resting state of the brain may be altered by long-term meditative practice." Special note: To understand the mindset of many U.S. soldiers in Iraq, take a look at the rather disturbing seven-minute video available here. And for an excellent essay showing the viability of using alcohol as fuel for cars, as is done widely in Brazil, click here. Why are the facts presented being covered up? And for some entertainment, if you want to enjoy some fun babies laughing in a one-minute video, click here . Final Note: WantToKnow.info believes it is important to balance disturbing cover-up information with inspirational writings which call us to be all that we can be and to work together for positive change. Please visit our Inspiration Center at http://www.WantToKnow.info/inspirational for an abundance of uplifting material. See our archive of revealing news articles at http://www.WantToKnow.info/indexnewsarticles Your tax-deductible donations, however large or small, help greatly to support this important work. To make a donation by credit card, check, or money order: http://www.WantToKnow.info/donationswtk Explore these empowering websites coordinated by the nonprofit PEERS network : http://www.momentoflove.org - Every person in the world has a heart http://www.WantToKnow.info - Reliable, verifiable information on major cover-ups http://www.inspiringcommunity.org - Building a Global Community for All http://www.weboflove.org - Strengthening the Web of Love that interconnects us all http://insightcourse.net - The Insight Course: Best of the Internet all in one free course Educational websites promoting transformation through information and inspiration To reply to this message, visit http://www.WantToKnow.info/contactus.php To subscribe to or unsubscribe from the WantToKnow.info list (one email every few days): http://www.WantToKnow.info/subscribe _____ Change email address / Leave mailing list Hosting by YourMailingListProvider -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 17:01:14 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:01:14 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Greetings from Riane Eisler Message-ID: <002301c988b7$33ede070$9bc9a150$@net> From: Riane Eisler [mailto:eisler at riane-eisler.ccsend.com] On Behalf Of Riane Eisler Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:08 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Greetings from Riane Riane Photo News from Riane Eisler February 7, 2009 3000 Years of Love Cover art by Barbara Schaefer and John Mason Save $$$ Real Wealth cover Discount on The Real Wealth of Nations Buy Book Now >> You can still get the first edition hardcover for the price of a paperback. It makes a great gift, and you may also want to send it to your government representative. _____ Quick Links Riane Eisler - www.rianeeisler.com Center for Partnership Studies www.partnershipway.org Spiritual Alliance to Stop Intimate Violence www.saiv.net (a project of the Center for Partnership Studies) Dear Mary, Valentine's Day is coming, and I want you to know that my wonderful husband and partner, David Loye, has written a book about our love and life together. It's a very personal story and at the same time an inspiring, often humorous guide to two people's passionate work to advance the women's, human rights, civil rights, peace, progressive science, and partnership movements globally. It's called 3,000 Years of Love - and you'll find out why when you read it. You may want to give it as a Valentine's Day gift to your loved ones - or to yourself. Please click here to order it online . For those of you who don't know David's work, he's an award-winning writer, a noted social psychologist and evolutionary systems scientist, and a wonderful partnership man! For more information on David, please click here . Here also is a link to my oped on the Huffington Post about what's urgently needed in the Economic Stimulus Package now before Congress. This is the time for us to speak out, loud and clear, to let our Senators, Representatives, and President Obama's team know that we want the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan to use our economic crisis as an opportunity to lay foundations for a sustainable and equitable economic system - instead of just trying to patch up an economy based on consumerism, consumer debt, and unsustainable environmental practices. Please use this oped to urge them to vote for a plan that invests in what really counts: people, starting in childhood. This is urgent. The Senate vote is coming up now. Study after study shows that when our nation invests in its human infrastructure - that is, in human capacity building - the economic benefits are enormous. By creating, subsidizing, and providing training for jobs in childcare, early education, healthcare, eldercare, and other "caring industries," as well as supporting caring work in homes, we quickly stimulate the economy, help families, radically reduce poverty and violence, reward women's economic contributions, save billions in crime and prisons - and develop the "high quality human capital" needed for our post-industrial economy. Warmly, Riane P.S. I invite you to support the work of the Center for Partnership Studies as we gear up for our new website to launch our Caring Economics Campaign. Please send your tax deductible contribution to Center for Partnership Studies, a 501(c)3 nonprofit organization, either by mail to PO Box 51936, Pacific Grove, CA 93950 or donate online . Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to maryrose333 at att.net by rianeeisler at gmail.com. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by Leah Gow | P.O. Box 51936 | Pacific Grove | CA | 93950 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 22:40:43 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:10:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: My Friendship With Obama's Mother :: Let Wall Street Die :: Voices for Change Message-ID: <146376.11990.qm@web94902.mail.in2.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 7/2/09, YES Magazine wrote: From: YES Magazine Subject: My Friendship With Obama's Mother :: Let Wall Street Die :: Voices for Change To: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Date: Saturday, 7 February, 2009, 5:16 AM #yiv496941718 {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 td {FONT-SIZE:11px;} #yiv496941718 a {FONT-SIZE:11px;} #yiv496941718 .footer {FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-WEIGHT:bold;COLOR:#ffffff;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;padding:4px;} #yiv496941718 .datestamp {FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #yiv496941718 .cantread {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .cantread a:link {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .cantread a:active {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .cantread a:visited {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .cantread a:hover {FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#666666;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .MainTitle {FONT-WEIGHT:bold;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .BoxTitle {display:block;float:left;width:608px;FONT-WEIGHT:bold;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#FFFFFF;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:1px solid #A93422;padding:0px;margin-bottom:1px;margin-top:8px;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .BoxTitleAd {display:block;float:left;width:608px;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#FFFFFF;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:0px solid #ffffff;padding:0px;margin-bottom:1px;margin-top:8px;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .BoxContent {display:block;float:left;width:608px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:1px solid #999999;padding:0px;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .BoxContent .Padding {padding:8px;} #yiv496941718 #MainColumn .BoxTitle .Padding {padding:4px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .BoxTitle {display:block;float:left;width:160px;FONT-WEIGHT:bold;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#FFFFFF;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:1px solid #A93422;padding:0px;margin-bottom:1px;margin-top:8px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .BoxContent {display:block;float:left;width:160px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:1px solid #999999;padding:0px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .ColBoxContent {display:block;float:left;width:160px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#000000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#FFF9E5;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;border:1px solid #999999;padding:0px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .Link {display:block;padding-left:12px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/arrow_red_10_12.jpg');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .Link a {FONT-WEIGHT:bold;FONT-SIZE:11px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .BoxContent .Padding {padding:4px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .ColBoxContent .Padding {padding:4px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .BoxTitle .Padding {padding:4px;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .BoxTitle .PaddingBlack {padding:4px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .MusicIcon {display:block;padding-left:26px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/icon_musicC20.24.gif');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .VideoIcon {display:block;padding-left:26px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/icon_videoC20.24.gif');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .PhotoIcon {display:block;padding-left:26px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/icon_photoC20.14.gif');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .FilmIcon {display:block;padding-left:26px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/icon_filmC20.19.gif');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 #RightColumn .AudioIcon {display:block;padding-left:26px;padding-bottom:10px;background-image:url('http://www.yesmagazine.org/newsletters/images/icon_audioC20.19.gif');background-repeat:no-repeat;} #yiv496941718 .yellowboxtext {font-size:10px;} #yiv496941718 .captiontabletext {font-size:11px;} #yiv496941718 .captiontext {FONT-SIZE:9px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .captiontext a:link {FONT-SIZE:9px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .captiontext a:active {FONT-SIZE:9px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .captiontext a:visited {FONT-SIZE:9px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .captiontext a:hover {FONT-SIZE:9px;COLOR:#A93422;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .header {FONT-SIZE:14px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight:bold;TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #yiv496941718 .header a:link {FONT-SIZE:14px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight:bold;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .header a:active {FONT-SIZE:14px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight:bold;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .header a:visited {FONT-SIZE:14px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight:bold;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv496941718 .header a:hover {FONT-SIZE:14px;COLOR:#000000;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-weight:bold;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} ???SENT TO mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com??????MANAGE/CHANGE EMAIL????|???? VIEW AS A WEB PAGE??? Building a Just and Sustainable World???February 2009 Dear Reader, You may be catching some of the media excitement around Dave Korten's just-published book, Agenda for a New Economy. With Wall Street crashing and the government flailing, his message to replace Wall Street with a financial system that works for Main Street is catching fire.? Now here's a secret about this book. Dave wrote it in a mere three weeks! The genesis was his article for YES!, Beyond Bailouts: Agenda for a New Economy. When Dave's publisher read it, he asked Dave to turn it into a book, and they targeted the launch for January 23, when Dave was set to deliver a keynote address at Trinity Church in the heart of Wall Street. So Dave literally wrote night and day, the words pouring out from a lifetime of thought.. Dave said "I feel like I have lived my whole life to write this book." I was with Dave in New York and accompanied him to his interview with Amy Goodman for Democracy Now! After Amy finished her interview with Dave, she discovered I had been friends with Barack Obama's mother so she called the camera crews back to interview me about our friendship. I think you'll enjoy both these interviews. ? Fran Korten Publisher, YES! Magazine Path to a New Economy DAVID'S LATEST ARTICLE Don't Fix Wall Street, Replace It "Let Wall Street corporations and their phantom wealth machine slip into the abyss of their own making. Devote our public resources to building and strengthening Main Street businesses and financial institutions devoted to creating real wealth in service to their local communities." By David Korten Help Us Think About Our Future Issues Illustration by Don Baker Take a deep breath and think about the things that have helped you and your community cope or even thrive in the past months of economic downturn. Whatever solutions the government, the business sector, or your neighborhood come up with, an economic reboot will need people power. Share your inspiration, strength, and creativity with other readers: What are you and your family doing to make it through the economic downturn and to help others during these tough times? If this form doesn?t work for you, please email us at editors[at]yesmagazine.org. YES! Monthly Cartoon Caption Write a caption for this month's YES! cartoon. Winning entries will be posted online, and the funniest will be printed in YES! If this form doesn't work for you, please email your caption to YesComments[at]yesmagazine.org. ?No! Wait for the Euro, boys. ? The best captions for this cartoon. How to Get More YES! SPECIAL OFFER A year of YES! + David Korten's new book for just $24. Subscribe today! POSTERS Hang 'em up and share the inspiration. EXPLORE OUR STORE YES! totes, back issues, books ? Voices for Change YES! Reports >From DC First We Need the Economy Fixed In challenging times, these three youth feel that the country has a lot more unity now. "Now it's time for all of us to participate," they say. Ready to Do the Work Tania says this is the first time she feels included in the word American. She is inspired by the idea of a renewed America. Obama Treads on New Territory Sioux Glynn Crooks says: "Obama's presidency is an honor for his people but also for the people of America and the people of the world." If I Had a Hammer Singer-Songwriter Bethany Yarrow inspires you to let your light shine. YES! is published by the Positive Futures Network ?::? www.yesmagazine.org 284 Madrona Way NE, Suite 116, Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2870, USA ?::? Phone: 206-842-0216 ???We never sell or share our email list. Use this link if you wish to unsubscribe from this list. ???Manage your email subscriptions??|??If this email was forwarded to you, sign up for your own YES! newsletters ???Get a Free Trial Issue??|??Contact YES! ? Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 01:16:59 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:46:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Challenges for unified framework Message-ID: <428247.12772.qm@web94910.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I am sharing a mail that indicates the challenges for unity. - wrote: ? ? Bismillah Hir Rahmaan Nir Raheem Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatuallahi wa barakatuhu ? http://alkhilafah. net/sects. html ? 73 Sects In Islam ? The Ummah will split up into seventy-three sects Model Behavior of the Prophet (Kitab Al-Sunnah) Dawud :: Book 40 : Hadith 4579 Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_ him) said: The Jews were split up into seventy-one or seventy-two sects; and the Christians were split up into seventy one or seventy-two sects; and my community will be split up into seventy-three sects. Reported by Awf ibn Malik Al Ashja'l: The Prophet said, "How will you be O Awf when this nation is divided into 73 sects. One sect will be in Paradise and the rest in Hell." I asked: "When will this be O Messenger of Allah?" He answered, saying: "When the police increase and slave girls take authority, and when the lambs (weak authorities) sit on the pulpit, and when the Qu'ran is used as flutes and mosques decorated and the spoils of war manipulated, and the obligatory charity becomes an excessive debt, and trust is taken like spoils of war, and religious study is not for the Sake of Allah and when husbands obey their wives, and disobeys his mother, and banishes his father, and the last of this nation curses the beginning of it, and when the tribe is mastered by a deviator, and the leader of the nation is the worst of them and a man is treated generously to avoid his evil. Upon that day it will happen and men will run to Syria to the City of Damascus, which is one of the best cities in Syria that protects them from their enemy ... " I asked: "Will Syria be opened?" He answered: "Yes, soon then after its opening the trials will start and a dark and dusty trial will come. Trials will follow one another until a man from the Family of my House called the Mahdi comes. If you reach him, follow him and be among those who are guided."(At-Tabarani) ? All will go to hell except the one to which my companions belong ?Al-Tirmidhi HadithHadith 171 Narrated byAbdullah ibn Amr Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There will befall my Ummah exactly (all those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that? Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong. Transmitted by Tirmidhi. Deviants will be guided by desire ?The People of the Two Scriptures divided into seventy-two sects. This Ummah will divide into seventy-three sects, all in the Fire except one, that is, the Jama`ah. Some of my Ummah will be guided by desire, like one who is infected by rabies; no vein or joint will be saved from these desires.??? This hadith was also narrated by Abu Dawood (2/503), Ahmad (4/102) and al-Haakim (1/128) among others, with similar wording but with the following addition; Large Community [Jama`ah]Will Go To Jannah ????? ?????? ?? ?????. ???: ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???: ??????? ?Seventy two in hell fire and one in the Jannah: that is the 'Jama`ah.'? The hadith mentions the word ?Firqah?; this word is a lafz mushtaraq, or homonym. It is a word, which has many meanings. Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) mentions this word in different contexts in the Quran; ????? ????? ?????????????? ???????????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ??? ????? ???????? ????????? ????????? ????????????????? ??? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??????????? 9:122 Nor should the believers all go forth together: if a contingent from every expedition remained behind they could devote themselves to studies in religion and admonish the people when they return to them that thus they (may learn) to guard themselves (against evil). Here, the word firqah is used to mean group or expedition. Pronounced Takfir/Labelling unbeliever 2:113 The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon"; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (to stand) upon." Yet they (profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.. *Note:Jews Pronunced Takfir on Christians because they believed in Isa alai salaa /Jesus and Christians pronounced Takfir because Jews did not believed in Isa alai salaam/Jesus. ? ? Now Lets Analyse How Jews And Christians Divided 2:253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honor); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. If Allah had so willed succeeding generations would not have fought among each other after clear (Signs) had come to them but they (chose) to wrangle some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed they would not have fought each other; but Allah fulfilleth His plan. 3:19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will): nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah Allah is swift in calling to account. Deviance Of Jews 3:78. And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: "This is from All?h," but it is not from All?h; and they speak a lie against All?h while they know it. *Note:Here again the word firqah is used, but in this context, it is something that is condemned, for the action they carried out was distorting the revelation.So the context will indicate what the meaning is of the word being used. 4:160. For the wrong?doing of the Jews, We made unlawful to them certain good foods which has been lawful to them, and for their hindering many from All?h's Way; 9:30 The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth! *Note:They called Uzair son of Allah 2:87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an Apostle with what ye yourselves desire not ye are puffed up with pride? Some ye called impostors and others ye slay! *Note:Jews rejected Isa alai salaam /JESUS 5:13 But because of their breach of their Covenant We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them nor wilt thou cease to find them barring a few ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. *Note;They forgot good part of the book ? Deviance Of Christians 5:14 From those too who call themselves Christians We did take a Covenant but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent them: so We estranged them with enmity and hatred between the one and the other to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. *Note:They forgot good part of the message 4:171 O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. *Note:They believed in Trinity 5:72 They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah Allah will forbid him the garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. 73 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy) verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. *Note:They believed Allah is christ the son of Mary ? 9:31 They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; Yet they were commanded to worship but one Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to him: (far is He) from having the parents they associate (with him). *Note:They invented priesthood 57:27 Then in their wake We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy.. But the monasticism which they invented for themselves We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed on those among them who believed their (due) reward but many of them are rebellious transgressors. *Note:They invented monasticism ? Solution for Apostacy Division Due To Apostacy Was Death Even In Musa alai salaa's time,its the same in Present times.For ex Qadianis,Submitters ,Nation of Islam will be killed in Islamic state. 20:85 (Allah) said: "We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray." 86 So Moses returned to his people in state of indignation and sorrow. He said: "O my people! did not your Lord make a handsome promise to you? Did then the promise seem to you long (in coming)? Or did ye desire that Wrath should descend from your Lord on you and so ye broke your promise to me?" 87 They said: "We broke not the promise to thee as far as lay in our power: but we were made to carry the weight of the ornaments of the (whole) people and we threw them (into the fire) and that was what the Samiri suggested. 88 "Then he brought out (of the fire) before the (people) the image of a calf: it seemed to low: so they said: `This is your god and the god of Moses but (Moses) has forgotten!' " 89 Could they not see that it could not return them a word (for answer) and that it had no power either to harm them or to do them good? 90 Aaron had already before this said to them: "O my people! ye are being tested in this: for verily your Lord is (Allah) Most Gracious: so follow me and obey my command." 91 They had said: "We will not abandon this cult but we will devote ourselves to it until Moses returns to us. 92 (Moses) said: " O Aaron! what kept thee back when thou sawest them going wrong 93 "From following me? Didst thou then disobey my order?" 94 (Aaron) replied: "O son of my mother! seize (me not) by my beard nor by (the hair of) my head! Truly I feared lest thou shouldst say `Thou hast caused a division among the Children of Israel and thou didst not respect my word!'" ? ? 2:54 And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers) ; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness) ; for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. Conclusion With respect to the hadith, Allah's Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) explains to us how the Jews were divided into seventy-one sects or firqah, and the Christians were similarly divided into seventy-two firqah. Then he (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) states that this Ummah will divide into seventy-three sects and that all but the one who follows what he (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) and his companions followed will be in hell.This does not mean being in hell just like a kafir will be in hell as long as that muslims has not fallen out of the fold of Islam. Upon studying the areas in which they disagreed are Two 1? They disagreed in the fundamentals of their Deen. They disagreed on their Prophets, the Day of Judgement, the Unity of Allah, resurrection, heaven and hell, etc. These are disagreements on the foundations of belief. Since Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) and His Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) ordered us not to divide as the People of the Book did, then we are to avoid that area which their disagreement occurred in. This means that disagreement on the fundamentals of the Deen is condemned. 2.They also disagreed in their respective books ,forgot good part of the book,verbally distored the book ,they invented priesthood & monasticism, Allah says to Muslims.. ?????????????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????? ???????????? 3:103 And hold fast all together by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you) and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love so that by His grace ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make his signs clear to you: that ye may be guided. Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) orders the Muslims to hold tight and not let go of the rope of Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) and not to divide. 'The rope of Allah' Ibn Masood (ra), Ali bin Abi Talib (ra), and Abu Saeed Al-Kuddrri (ra) said it is the Qur'an. Others said it is the Deen of Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala). Others like Ibnul Mubaarak said it is the Jama?ah. 'And divide not' At-Tabari said; ??and do not disperse away from the Deen of Allah and His covenant which he took from you in His Book: that you should be together in obeying Him and His Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam).? Ibn Katheer said; ?He ordered them to stay in the Jama`ah and not to divide.? Al-Qurtubi said; ?Do not divide as the Jews and the Christians in their Deen?and it could mean do not separate based on your desires and interests.? Therefore, the disagreement that Muslims are not allowed to have is in the fundamentals of their Deen, not in its branches. This is due to several reasons: The texts that condemn the disagreement order the Muslims not to disagree like the People of the Book who disagreed in the fundamentals ,they also disagreed in other aspects regarding their books.So Muslims must avoid this. The Sunnah of the Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) permitted disagreements in the branches or Furoo`. 1) The disagreement that existed among the Sahabah were in the Furoo', not in the Usul (foundations of the Deen). No condemnation was made about such disagreements in the Furoo?. 2) The followers of the Companions (Tabi'een), the generation that followed them, and the scholars of the Salaf (predecessors) accepted the disagreement in the Furoo? but not in the Usul ud-Deen (foundations of the Deen). So, for example, Ash-Shafi'i (ra) states in his book Ar-Risalah; ?Disagreement is of two types: One that is Haram and the other is not. Everything that Allah established by the definite proof (Hujjah) in His book or clearly stated by His Prophet is Haram to disagree over by the one who knows of it. As for that which can be understood differently or by analogy, since the text can bare it?there is room for [disagreement] unlike in the clearly stated.? Ibn Taymiyah (ra) in his book al-Fatawa al-Kubra, Vol. 20, p.256 stated; ?Then it [the texts] are divided to: that which is definite in its dalalah (meaning). Its definiteness is established in its chain [of narrators] (Sanad) as well as in its contents (Mata), where we are sure that Allah's Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) said it and meant that meaning. The other which is indefinite in its dalalah (meaning). As for the first, it must be believed in and acted according to. This is indisputable among the scholars in general. The scholars might disagree however in some news whether their chains are definite (Qat?i) or not and whether their meaning is definite or not. An example of such disagreement is with regard to the news transmitted by the one (Khabarul Wahid) that is accepted by the Ummah or the one that the Ummah has agreed to act upon.? The Sahabah (ra) had disagreed in matters, which were related to the branches of the Deen, but they remained united on the foundations of the Deen. Subsequently, the great Mujtahideen of Islam differed on many aspects of the Deen, but they were again in the branches. So the ?firqah? which are punished in hell fire, are not those groups which have these legitimate differences. Therefore, those who follow a particular Madhab, such as the Shafi?i, Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki The Hanafi scholar, Ibn Abideen stated this fact; ?There is no doubt in the disbelief (kufr) of those that falsely accuse Sayyida Aisha (ra) of adultery, believe that Sayyidina Ali (ra) was God or that the angel Jibril mistakenly descended with the revelation (wahy) on the Messenger of Allah (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam), etc. which is apparent kufr and contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an.? [Radd al-Muhtar, 4/453]. Ibn Abidin continues; "It is difficult to make a general statement and judge all the Shia to be non-believers, as the scholars have agreed on the deviation and defection of the deviated sects." Those who follow the schools of thought from the Shia like the Ja?fari or Zaidi, are not labelled with disbelief because their aqeeda is not kufr,not all have kufr Aqeeda which could makes them apostates.After close scrutiny of their beliefs its clear ,they all are not kafir but deviants that is why they are allowed to perform Hajj.The Quranites/khawariji tes/hadith rejectors are also not disbelievers & and other sects ,these are all? considered deviants but not Non-muslims. Some have apostaised i.e left the fold of Islam such as the Qadiani, who claimed Prophethood after Muhammad (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam), or those Alawi, who claim Ali (ra) to be god incarnate (may Allah protect us from such deviation), or those who deny the punishment in the Ahkirah,destiny, also Submitters,Nation of Islam etc. Any group that contradicts the definite text of the Qur?an, falls outside the fold of Islam. Even the Shia scholar of the Qur?an, Allama Muhammad Hussein Tabatabai, writes in his very famous exegesis, Tafseer-ul-Meezan, 12th edition, page 109, published in Iran, regarding the completeness of the Qur'an; ?The Qur?an, which Almighty Allah descended on Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam), is protected from any change.? Unfortunately, the ignorance and bigotry of certain groups has led to the passing of Takfir. It is a way of thinking which regards one?s own opinion and views in matters within the Deen as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked.And hence Takfir is pronounced.It has disunited ummah,and damaged its strength. The Muslim Ummah is one. The Qur?an found in the mosques, throughout the world, whether in Karachi, Tehran, Cairo, Madinah, or Algiers is one. Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) states; ????? ?????? ??????????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ????????? ???????????? ?Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other)? [TMQ Al-Anbiyah: 92] The Shia are part of this noble Ummah; they are Muslim and brotherly love needs to exist between all the Muslims. Indeed the Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, whether he is Shia, Sunni or whatever authority he imitates or whichever Mujtahid he follows. This is how the Messenger of Allah (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) taught us, ?????? ?? ?????? ? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?The Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, he doesn't oppress him, neither does he hand him over to the enemy, he doesn't disappoint him, nor does he humiliate him.? Allah (Subhanahu wa ta?aala) states; ???? ?????????? ????????????? 22:78 And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive (with sincerity and under discipline): He has chosen you and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (Revelation) ; that the Apostle may be a witness for you and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector the Best to protect and the Best to help! Any disagreement which exists, is something which can be referred to the divine texts, ????? ????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ????? ?????? ???????????? 4;59 O ye who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves refer it to Allah and His Apostle if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best and most suitable for final determination. Indeed, it is clear for those who take notice, that the Kuffar have gathered against us and have thrown us all into one bracket and are not going to let a day pass without the spilling of Muslim blood. In spite of the fact that the Kuffar are split in accordance with their benefits, they come together in the war against Islam, and compete in their enmity against it. So should we not gather against them, bonding around Islam, not artificially splitting ourselves into Sunni and Shia and various Madhabs? ?????????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ???????? ??? ???????? ????????? ????? 8:73 The unbelievers are protectors one of another: unless ye do this (protect each other) there would be tumult and oppression on earth and great mischief. Allah Knows Best ? Surah Isra 17 verse 80 Say: "O my Lord! let my entry be by the Gate of Truth and Honor and likewise my exit by the Gate of Truth and Honor; and grant me from Thy Presence an authority to aid (me)."? Ameen,Thumameen. Transliteration?:Wa qur rabbi adkhilni mudkhala sidqiw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidqiw wa-j'al li mil ladunka sulta_nan nasira_(n). Al-Tirmidhi HadithHadith 2482 Narrated by AbuHurayrah??(May Allah be pleased with him) Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) used to say, " O Allah, grant me benefit in what Thou hast taught me, teach me what will benefit me, and increase my knowledge. Praise be to Allah in all circumstances. I seek refuge in Allah from the state of those who go to Hell." Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it, Tirmidhi saying this is a tradition whose isnad is gharib. ? Transliteration:an Abi Hurairah (radiya Allahu anhu) qaal: qaala Rasul Allah (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam): "Allahumma infa'ni bima 'allamtani, wa allimni maa yanfa'oni wa zidni 'ilman, alhamdulillahi alaa kolli haal, wa a'odtho billahi min haali ahlil naar." Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Click here. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages "Allah The God, Muhammad (s.m) The Messenger and Our Leader, Quran is Our Constitution, Sunnah The Right Path, Shari'ah The Best Law, Heaven is our Desire"
"We Call you to the Teaching of Islam,To the Guidence of Islam,To the Rules of Islam, To the Way of Islam,if this means politics to you, then this isour politics"-Shahid Hasan al Banna
"When Money is lost nothing loss, Health is Lost ,something Loss But Character is Lost ,every thing loss!"
I swear by the time,Most surely man is in loss,Except those who believe and do good,and enjoin on each other truth,and enjoin on each other patience-Sura Al-Asr MARKETPLACE >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Y! Messenger Want a quick chat? Chat over IM with group members. Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! Yahoo! Groups Do More For Dogs Group Join a group of dog owners who do more. .. __,_._,___ Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 03:41:38 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:11:38 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: The War on Terror is a Hoax!! Message-ID: <71149.58835.qm@web94909.mail.in2.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 7/2/09, a voice of reason wrote: From: a voice of reason truthbehindthenews at gmail.com The War on Terror is a Hoax By Paul Craig Roberts [www.informationclearinghouse.info] February 04, 2009 Information Clearinghouse" -- - According to US government propaganda, terrorist cells are spread throughout America, making it necessary for the government to spy on all Americans and violate most other constitutional protections. Among President Bush's last words as he left office was the warning that America would soon be struck again by Muslim terrorists. If America were infected with terrorists, we would not need the government to tell us. We would know it from events. As there are no events, the US government substitutes warnings in order to keep alive the fear that causes the public to accept pointless wars, the infringement of civil liberty, national ID cards, and inconveniences and harassments when they fly. The most obvious indication that there are no terrorist cells is that not a single neocon has been assassinated. I do not approve of assassinations, and am ashamed of my country's government for engaging in political assassination. The US and Israel have set a very bad example for al Qaeda to follow. The US deals with al Qaeda and Taliban by assassinating their leaders, and Israel deals with Hamas by assassinating its leaders. It is reasonable to assume that al Qaeda would deal with the instigators and leaders of America's wars in the Middle East in the same way. Today every al Qaeda member is aware of the complicity of neoconservatives in the death and devastation inflicted on Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Gaza. Moreover, neocons are highly visible and are soft targets compared to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders. Neocons have been identified in the media for years, and as everyone knows, multiple listings of their names are available online. Neocons do not have Secret Service protection. Dreadful to contemplate, but it would be child's play for al Qaeda to assassinate any and every neocon. Yet, neocons move around freely, a good indication that the US does not have a terrorist problem. If, as neocons constantly allege, terrorists can smuggle nuclear weapons or dirty bombs into the US with which to wreak havoc upon our cities, terrorists can acquire weapons with which to assassinate any neocon or former government official. Yet, the neocons, who are the Americans most hated by Muslims, remain unscathed. The "war on terror" is a hoax that fronts for American control of oil pipelines, the profits of the military-security complex, the assault on civil liberty by fomenters of a police state, and Israel's territorial expansion. There were no al Qaeda in Iraq until the Americans brought them there by invading and overthrowing Saddam Hussein, who kept al Qaeda out of Iraq. The Taliban is not a terrorist organization, but a movement attempting to unify Afghanistan under Muslim law. The only Americans threatened by the Taliban are the Americans Bush sent to Afghanistan to kill Taliban and to impose a puppet state on the Afghan people. Hamas is the democratically elected government of Palestine, or what little remains of Palestine after Israel's illegal annexations. Hamas is a terrorist organization in the same sense that the Israeli government and the US government are terrorist organizations. In an effort to bring Hamas under Israeli hegemony, Israel employs terror bombing and assassinations against Palestinians. Hamas replies to the Israeli terror with homemade and ineffectual rockets. Hezbollah represents the Shi'ites of southern Lebanon, another area in the Middle East that Israel seeks for its territorial expansion. The US brands Hamas and Hezbollah "terrorist organizations" for no other reason than the US is on Israel's side of the conflict. There is no objective basis for the US Department of State's "finding" that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. It is merely a propagandistic declaration. Americans and Israelis do not call their bombings of civilians terror. What Americans and Israelis call terror is the response of oppressed people who are stateless because their countries are ruled by puppets loyal to the oppressors. These people, dispossessed of their own countries, have no State Departments, Defense Departments, seats in the United Nations, or voices in the mainstream media. They can submit to foreign hegemony or resist by the limited means available to them. The fact that Israel and the United States carry on endless propaganda to prevent this fundamental truth from being realized indicates that it is Israel and the US that are in the wrong and the Palestinians, Lebanese, Iraqis, and Afghans who are being wronged. The retired American generals who serve as war propagandists for Fox "News" are forever claiming that Iran arms the Iraqi and Afghan insurgents and Hamas. But where are the arms? To deal with American tanks, insurgents have to construct homemade explosive devices out of artillery shells. After six years of conflict the insurgents still have no weapon against the American helicopter gunships. Contrast this "arming" with the weaponry the US supplied to the Afghans three decades ago when they were fighting to drive out the Soviets. The films of Israel's murderous assault on Gaza show large numbers of Gazans fleeing from Israeli bombs or digging out the dead and maimed, and none of these people are armed. A person would think that by now every Palestinian would be armed, every man, woman, and child. Yet, all the films of the Israeli attack show an unarmed population. Hamas has to construct homemade rockets that are little more than a sign of defiance. If Hamas were armed by Iran, Israel's assault on Gaza would have cost Israel its helicopter gunships, its tanks, and hundreds of lives of its soldiers. Hamas is a small organization armed with small caliber rifles incapable of penetrating body armor. Hamas is unable to stop small bands of Israeli settlers from descending on West Bank Palestinian villages, driving out the Palestinians, and appropriating their land. The great mystery is: why after 60 years of oppression are the Palestinians still an unarmed people? Clearly, the Muslim countries are complicit with Israel and the US in keeping the Palestinians unarmed. The unsupported assertion that Iran supplies sophisticated arms to the Palestinians is like the unsupported assertion that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. These assertions are propagandistic justifications for killing Arab civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure in order to secure US and Israeli hegemony in the Middle East. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 06:31:48 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:31:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Savers now on ZERO interest as base rate is slashed yet agan to new record low. Message-ID: <191869.69028.qm@web27408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Savers now on ZERO interest as base rate is slashed yet again to a new record low By Becky Barrow Last updated at 12:19 AM on 06th February 2009 Comments (129) Add to My Stories The relentless assault on savers continued yesterday with another interest rate cut. It means that, for the first time ever, many so-called savings accounts will pay no interest at all. Financial experts said savers have become the 'sacrificial lambs' of the Bank of England's attempts to rescue the economy. The Bank yesterday cut the base rate by a half-point to 1 per cent, the lowest level since it was founded in 1694 and the fifth cutThe Bank of England cut interest rates by another 0.5% to a record low of 1.0 percent. The frenzied rate-cutting is having a devastating impact on savers, who outnumber borrowers by seven to one. The biggest losers are older people, who rely on income from investments to boost their modest pensions. More than 40 per cent of building society savings accounts belong to someone over 55. ? More... House prices RISE for first time in 10 months Mandy warns bailed out RBS bosses not to pay themselves 'exorbitant bonuses' Charities say that pensioners are being forced to make painful cutbacks such as switching off heating and buying cheaper food. Former teacher Ruth Pacey, 84, spoke for them last night when she said: 'I feel as if my generation has been abandoned. I really worry how some of my friends are going to survive.' Yet the majority of borrowers are not benefiting from the cuts. Most homeowners have a fixed-rate mortgage and may still be paying as much as 7 per cent. The financial information firm Moneyfacts says there are 133 savings accounts paying 0.1 per cent or less. A customer with ?5,000 in hard-earned savings gets interest of just ?5 a year? -? ?4 after tax. Alliance & Leicester, Cater Allen Private Bank and Dudley Building Society are already penalising savers with accounts paying nothing. As a result of yesterday's cut, more banks and building societies will become 'savings sinners' who hold on to people's money but pay not a penny in return. Many savers are suffering a double whammy as dividends from stock market investments are disappearing too. Sean Gardner, from the comparison website MoneyExpert.com, said: 'Savers are the sacrificial lambs in the Bank's attempts to revive the economy. 'The problem with a base rate of one per cent is that it makes a mockery of saving. 'Anyone on a flexible savings rate might as well put the cash in the attic for all the difference it'll make.' Enlarge ? Moneyfacts figures show the average rate on an instant access savings account has plummeted from 4.04 per cent last February to 1.08 per cent. Shadow Chancellor George Osborne called savers and pensioners 'the innocent victims of Gordon Brown's recession.' The Tories are urging measures such as increasing the tax-free allowance for pensioners. As it made its latest cut, the Bank warned: 'The global economy is in the throes of a severe and synchronised downturn'. It listed a catalogue-of woes such as firms shedding labour and cutting back on investment and credit conditions deteriorating still further. Roger Bootle, economic adviser to accountants Deloitte, said he expects base rate to hit zero 'within a month or two'. At that point, the Bank is likely to be forced to start 'printing money'? -? known as 'quantitative easing'? -? after running out of alternatives. There have been growing calls for the Bank to resist cutting its rate? -? it was at five per cent as recently as October? -? to protect Britain's millions of savers. Adrian Coles, director-general of the Building Societies Association, said last night: 'Savers will have seen their interest payments drop by 83 per cent since July 2007. 'People dependent on interest income have not seen prices fall by a similar amount? -? their lifestyles have taken a significant blow.' Enlarge ? In December last year the Daily Mail's Moneymail secion launched a campaign to protect savings. We called on banks and building societies to stand up for savers by offering them a fair deal. While savers see their income disappear, yesterday's cut will not save a penny for the vast majority of homeowners. Fixed rates will stay the same, and many lenders have refused to pass on recent cuts to variable-rate borrowers. Some put a 'collar' on how far tracker mortgages could drop. Other lenders, such as Woolwich, Nationwide, Halifax, Lloyds and Skipton, are more generous, revealing plans yesterday to pass on the full 0.5 point cut. ? Print this article Read later Email to a friend Share this article: Digg it Del.icio.us Reddit Newsvine Nowpublic StumbleUpon Facebook MySpace Fark DM.has("readerComments");DM.has("debate"); View more Add your comments Comments (129) Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below? ? ? ? ? How can this encourage spending when people who rely on savings for an income are getting less money? All I know is that I will not be sending money back to the UK any more. Click to rate ? ? Rating ? 30 - Tina Jones, Dusseldorf, Germany, 05/2/2009 14:39 ? ? ? ? Gordon Brown wants savers to be as reckless as the rest of society spend spend spend then what. (No pensions unless you work for the government, what a mess.) Click to rate ? ? Rating ? 35 - sue, derbyshire, 05/2/2009 14:38 ? ? ? ? Seems that the only people who have a grievance are those who coined in during the boom years , moved to a villa in France,Spain or Portugal, enjoyed historically great rates against the euro on the back of their ill gained profits whilst their money was doing nothing for their home economy and now they are the first to complain about the British government ! - oh you English are a rare lot. Show some patriotism, move home, get a part time job ,help the economy get back on track , spend your british pounds in britain. Come on then , where's your bulldog spirit ?! Click to rate ? ? Rating ? 35 - Sean, Derry,N Ireland, 05/2/2009 14:37 ? ? ? ? Click to rate ? ? Rating ? View more Add your comment ? ? ? ? Name:? Email:??? Your email address will not be published Town & Country:??? Your comments:??? Make text area bigger You have 1000 characters left. Remember me - this will save you having to type out your name, location and email address when you next leave a comment. Terms & conditionsClearSubmit Content dm_google_ad_type = ''; google_ad_client = 'ca-dailymailuk_html'; google_ad_output = 'js'; google_ad_type = 'text'; google_language = 'en'; google_encoding = 'utf8'; google_safe = 'high'; google_ad_section = 's1 s2'; google_ad_channel="wide_bottom"; google_max_num_ads = 3; google_skip = 8; window.google_render_ad(); Ads By Google ISA InvestmentInvestment expertise to stand thetest of time from Invesco Perpetualwww.invescoperpetual.co.uk FDIC Warns 117 Banks OnList of Potentially Troubled Banks.Are You Banking With One? Read OnSovereignSociety.com/Market_Crisis Compare Bank Interest RatesFind A Savings Account Online -Compare Rates And Apply Today.Savings.UKNetGuide.co.uk Enter search term: Search Advanced Search %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3Ciframe%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/iview/129678768/direct%3Bwi.300%3Bhi.250/01%3Fclick%3Dhttp%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010847bb3f965200000000/pos%3D5/AAMSZ%3D300x250/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257./relocate%3D%22%20frameborder%3D%220%22%20scrolling%3D%22no%22%20marginheight%3D%220%22%20marginwidth%3D%220%22%20topmargin%3D%220%22%20leftmargin%3D%220%22%20allowtransparency%3D%22true%22%20width%3D%22300%22%20height%3D%22250%22%3E%3Cscript%20language%3D%22JavaScript%22%20type%3D%22text/javascript%22%3Edocument.write%28%27%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010847bb3f965200000000/pos%3D5/AAMSZ%3D300x250/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/vie w/129678768/direct%3Bwi.300%3Bhi.250/01/%22/%3E%3C/a%3E%27%29%3B%3C/script%3E%3Cnoscript%3E%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010847bb3f965200000000/pos%3D5/AAMSZ%3D300x250/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20border%3D%220%22%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/view/129678768/direct%3Bwi.300%3Bhi.250/01/%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E%3C/noscript%3E%3C/iframe%3E%3Cimg%20src%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/IMPCNT/ccid%3D67655/pos%3D5/AAMSZ%3D300x250/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20width%3D%221%22%20height%3D%221%22%20border%3D%220%22%20style%3D%22display%3Anone%22%20/%3E%3C/div%3E document.write(''); ? ? FEMAIL TODAY How I fell for a secret millionaire: Joe revealed his ?10m fortune AFTER he proposed to Lisa He wore shabby clothes, drove a wreck and arranged cheap dates Jade Goody 'has emergency operation to remove life-threatening tumour' A golf ball-sized growth was said to be blocking her bowel I created Jade Goody Inc... now I feel guilty as she fights for her life Jane Ennis encouraged the Big Brother contestant to dissect herself in public Who killed Little Miss Sunshine? After 12 years and 100 suspects JonBenet's family faces new questions The evidence is being re-examined Man wanted! Alesha Dixon says she is ready to fall in love again The Strictly Dancing winner was devastated by her ex-husband's infidelity Yes, Valerie was my lover. And Lesley? Er, let's just say she was gorgeous Peter Purves dishes the Blue Peter dirt to JAN MOIR Massacre that led to Friends: Lisa Kudrow discovers her family's brutal past The actress reveals how her ancestors were killed in the Holocaust Vic Reeves: Jonathan Ross is just a bully... and he's not funny The comedian says we are quickly becoming a nation of bad-mannered bullies I'm not over my marriage split, admits Liv Tyler... and her husband might have a few second thoughts when he sees her latest photoshoot Hand of time: The puffy fingers that point to Michael Jackson's battle with ageing Perhaps the singer should invest in a pair of gloves Glamour and glitter galore: What really goes on behind the scenes of Dancing On Ice Getting the contestants ready is a performance all of its own The women who become Al Qaeda's human bombs KEVIN TOOLIS discovers how some are raped, others ruthlessly brainwashed 'I flipped out when I found a grey hair', admits Jennifer Aniston as big four-0 nears The actress told Jay Leno she was nervous about hitting the landmark Janet Street-Porter: Facebook is producing a dysfunctional generation The broadcaster says she won't be 'poking' cyber friends to celebrate the site's fifth birthday 0My Top 50 Stories Click on the icon below an article to save to your favourite stories file Remove Check box to remove Open ?Close Remove Check box to remove Open ?Close DM.has("tabbedHeadline"); Today's headlines Most Read Today's headlines Most Read Britain is blanketed in snow again, there's not enough grit, the trains grind to a halt ... and the Transport Secretary says: Don't whinge! 'I felt like killing myself over Baby P scandal,' admits sacked council chief 'I'm sorry for calling Brown one-eyed and Scottish but he's STILL an idiot', says Clarkson Chiles reveals truth about Carol Thatcher's 'golliwog' gaffe as she insists she apologised before sacking BBC serves up new gaffe as it broadcasts Christian Bale's foul-mouthed rant UNEDITED Mo Mowlam's widower, John Norton, dies at the age of 53 Britain ready to follow U.S. lead on capping bank bonuses Eton-educated Cameron says it's 'crazy' to pay for private schools 'Callous' warden gives parents parking ticket after they pull over to help sick baby daughter Council boss gets a whopping ?100,000 pension for 7 years' service Bigamist 'Captain Cad' sails off into the sunset with his third wife... leaving two more at home Sarkozy savages Brown's VAT cut: 'He'll ruin his country - but I'll do better' Manchester United football star Carlos Tevez's ?140K car seized Google offers 1.5million books to download FREE onto your mobile phone Town hall threatens father with ?2,500 fine for flying flag to welcome soldier sons home Teacher awarded ?280,000 after being attacked by pupil who was only suspended for one day Pictured: Meet the two brothers who grew up in a wooden shack and today play for England at Twickenham Olympic diver who fell out with Tom Daley is knocked unconscious in nightclub attack Jailed: Racehorse owner who spied on ex-girlfriend from garden shed for 10 days before raping her I wanted a huge family to make up for my lonely childhood: Mother of octuplets speaks for first time Teenager bludgeoned his father to death after GP prescribed him Prozac Strike action looms as union threaten action over 16,000 Post Office job losses Foxy Knoxy's ex-boyfriend tries to pin blame on her: 'I wouldn't hurt a fly' Milkman, 72, who delivered cannabis on his daily rounds is spared jail MORE HEADLINES Britain is blanketed in snow again, there's not enough grit, the trains grind to a halt ... and the Transport Secretary says: Don't whinge! Chiles reveals truth about Carol Thatcher's 'golliwog' gaffe as she insists she said sorry before sacking Yes, Valerie was my lover. And Lesley? Er, let's just say she was gorgeous: Peter Purves dishes the Blue Peter dirt 'I'm sorry for calling Brown one-eyed and Scottish but he's STILL an idiot', says Clarkson Mo Mowlam's widower, John Norton, dies at the age of 53 And if you think we've got it bad... Check out our pictures of snow chaos around the world Pictured: The 'totally brainless' snowboarder who was towed by a car down a frozen high street Janet Street-Porter: Why I hate Facebook 'Callous' warden gives parents parking ticket after they pull over to help sick baby daughter Headteacher stranded by the snow camps out in his office for FIVE days and counting Town hall threatens father with ?2,500 fine for flying flag to welcome soldier sons home The first Holocaust: Horrifying secrets of Germany's earliest genocide inside Africa's 'Forbidden Zone' Teacher awarded ?280,000 after being attacked by pupil who was only suspended for one day Do huge paw prints found in snow provide evidence of big cats roaming the British countryside? Jailed: Wealthy racehorse owner who spied on ex-girlfriend from garden shed for 10 days before raping her One-night stand man wakes to find lover has carved her name into his arm BBC serves up a new gaffe as it broadcasts Christian Bale's foul-mouthed rant UNEDITED on the breakfast news Foxy Knoxy suffers blow as ex-boyfriend tries to pin blame on her, saying 'I wouldn't hurt a fly' Olympic diver who fell out with Tom Daley is knocked unconscious in nightclub attack Head suspends 50 students who went on strike 'as they wanted to play in the snow' MOST READ IN DETAIL MONEY EXTRA: ?COMPETITION: Win an Apple iPod touch ?Interest rates: News and predictions %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3CA%20HREF%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D000108e5bb3f965200000000/pos%3D4/AAMSZ%3D308x76/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_new%22%3E%3CIMG%20SRC%3D%22http%3A//i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01_04/bn_paris_308x76.png%22%20ALT%3D%22Click%20here%21%22%20border%3D0%20style%3D%22margin-bottom%3A%200px%3B%22%3E%3C/A%3E%3C/div%3E EDITOR'S SIX OF THE BEST ?PETER OBORNE: Rich men, dodgy money and the banana skin that may stop Cameron reaching No10 ?AMANDA PLATELL: Television show reveals savagery, selfishness and children in crisis ?Germany's first Holocaust: Horrifying secrets of the earlier genocide inside Africa's 'Forbidden Zone' ?Worker retires in vintage Ford he first drove to work 48 years ago ?It may be freezing here but it's too warm for some polar bears: The amazing pictures of the world's most endangered creatures ?LIVE Barclays Premier League football: Manchester City v Middlesbrough %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3Ciframe%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/iview/129678766/direct%3Bwi.120%3Bhi.600/01%3Fclick%3Dhttp%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010846bb3f965200000000/pos%3D3/AAMSZ%3D120x600/TARGET%3DNON_SUPERSKY/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257./relocate%3D%22%20frameborder%3D%220%22%20scrolling%3D%22no%22%20marginheight%3D%220%22%20marginwidth%3D%220%22%20topmargin%3D%220%22%20leftmargin%3D%220%22%20allowtransparency%3D%22true%22%20width%3D%22120%22%20height%3D%22600%22%3E%3Cscript%20language%3D%22JavaScript%22%20type%3D%22text/javascript%22%3Edocument.write%28%27%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010846bb3f965200000000/pos%3D3/AAMSZ%3D120x600/TARGET%3DNON_SUPERSKY/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_blank%22%3E%3Cim g%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/view/129678766/direct%3Bwi.120%3Bhi.600/01/%22/%3E%3C/a%3E%27%29%3B%3C/script%3E%3Cnoscript%3E%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3D00010846bb3f965200000000/pos%3D3/AAMSZ%3D120x600/TARGET%3DNON_SUPERSKY/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20border%3D%220%22%20src%3D%22http%3A//view.atdmt.com/ZO2/view/129678766/direct%3Bwi.120%3Bhi.600/01/%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E%3C/noscript%3E%3C/iframe%3E%3Cimg%20src%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/IMPCNT/ccid%3D67654/pos%3D3/AAMSZ%3D120x600/TARGET%3DNON_SUPERSKY/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20width%3D%221%22%20height%3D%221%22%20border%3D%220%22%20style%3D%22display%3Anone%22%20/%3E%3C/div%3E document.write(''); %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3CA%20HREF%3D%22http%3A//ads.anm.co.uk/ADCLICK/CID%3Dfffffffcfffffffcfffffffc/pos%3D2/AAMSZ%3D120x160/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3Dnews/SUBAREA%3Dnews/TRAVELMAIL%3DHULL/ARTICLE%3D1136362/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D10257.%22%20target%3D%22_new%22%3E%3CIMG%20SRC%3D%22http%3A//iad.anm.co.uk/anmdefaultad.gif%22%20ALT%3D%22%22%20border%3D0%20style%3D%22margin-bottom%3A%200px%3B%22%3E%3C/A%3E%3C/div%3E %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3Cspan%20class%3D%22adHeader%22%3EMail%20Partners%3C/span%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ctable%20width%3D%22120%22%20cellspacing%3D%220%22%20cellpadding%3D%220%22%20border%3D%220%22%3E%09%3Ctbody%3E%09%09%3Ctr%3E%09%09%09%3Ctd%20width%3D%22120%22%20valign%3D%22top%22%20align%3D%22left%22%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/fashionstore/index.html%3Fpos%3D1/AAMSZ%3DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3D/SUBAREA%3D/ARTICLE%3D/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3ESALE%20NOW%20ON%21%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EGrab%20a%20bargain%20at%20our%20Femail%20Fashion%20Store%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//anm.intelli-direct.com/e/PExit.dll%3Fm%3D230%26p%3D1532%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww%252egosim%252ecom%252Ftravelmail%253Fpos%253D1%252FAAMSZ%253DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK%252FSITE%253DDM%252FAREA%253D%252FSUBAREA%253Dyou%252 FARTICLE%253D1021495%252Facc_random%253D554578571%252Fpageid%253D%252FRS%253D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3ECALLS%20ABROAD%20FOR%20LESS%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20Save%20up%20to%2085%25%20in%20over%20175%20countries%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%09%09%09%09%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//anm.intelli-direct.com/e/PExit.dll%3Fm%3D230%26p%3D1190%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww%252elovefilm%252ecom%252Fpartners%252Fdailymail%252ehtml%253Fpos%253D1%252FAAMSZ%253DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK%252FSITE%253DDM%252FAREA%253D%252FSUBAREA%253Dyou%252FARTICLE%253D1021495%252Facc_random%253D554578571%252Fpageid%253D%252FRS%253D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3EFREE%20MOVIES%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%2030%20days%20free%20DVD%20Rental%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//anm.intelli-direct.com/e/PExit.dll%3Fm%3D230%26p%3D1316%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww%252edistinctiontravel%252ecom%252F%253Fpage% 253D270%2526score%253D23%2526partner%253D160%2526score%253D23%2526tag%253Dsmartlink%253Atitle%252eTravelMail%252520%257C%252520Ski%252520season%252520starts%252520a%252520month%252520early%2526smartreferer%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww%252etravelmail%252eco%252euk%25252Farticle%25252Farticle_page%252ehtml%25253Farticle_id%25253D48083%2526slid%253D85%2526ad%253D121%253Fpos%253D1%252FAAMSZ%253DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK%252FSITE%253DDM%252FAREA%253D%252FSUBAREA%253Dyou%252FARTICLE%253D1021495%252Facc_random%253D554578571%252Fpageid%253D%252FRS%253D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3EFREE%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20Luxury%20skiing%20holiday%20brochures%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1045750/Now-play-Football-Pools-online-Mail.html%3Fpos%3D1/AAMSZ%3DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3D/SUBAREA%3D/ARTICLE%3D/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3EFO OTY%20POOLS%3C/strong%3E%20Test%20your%20knowledge%20and%20strike%20it%20RICH%21%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//www.thisismoney.co.uk/deal-finders%3Fpos%3D1/AAMSZ%3DDM_LHS_TEXTLINK/SITE%3DDM/AREA%3D/SUBAREA%3D/ARTICLE%3D/acc_random%3D22897425/pageid%3D/RS%3D%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3ETHIS%20IS%20MONEY%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20Find%20the%20best%20deals%20plus%20FREE%20advice%20brochures%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3A//www.mailbingo.com%22%3E%09%09%09%09%09%3Cstrong%3EMail%20Bingo%20%3C/strong%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EJoin%20and%20get%20up%20to%20%A3125%20free%21%09%09%09%09%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Ca%20target%3D%22_new%22%20href%3D%22http%3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 19:01:04 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:01:04 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Sony video: Did You Know? Message-ID: <002701c98991$2c367740$84a365c0$@net> IMHO, there is another very real video as economic collapse takes place. That we are going to have to mine the waste dumps of the world is an inevitability if we are to survive resource collapse in the fields of technology. If we are to survive ecological collapse, e.g., increasing desertification and loss of topsoil upon which civilization was built, loss of rain and old growth forests which serve as the lungs of the earth, along with the dying of the ocean which lays at the bottom of our food chain, due to lack of oxygenation, then we need to change our lifestyle fast. There are currently 146 dead zones in the ocean with the largest being the size of the state of Louisiana laying off of the coast of Texas in the Gulf of Mexico. Scientists are projecting we have about 10 years of ocean life left before collapse occurs. Without the ocean the rest Is history. SHIFT is happening with or without us. Where are you in this scheme of things? I watched a video saying that if we wanted to survive the future we needed a soldering gun and a waste dump. So, I wrote the above and then discovered I did not get a copy of the URL of the video that inspired this comment and i could not locate it again. But the above message is still valid, IMHO. Even if Global Climate Change is a hoax, which I do not believe it is, we still have to deal with ecological collapse caused by human intervention. M R Thanks, Nance for the below video From: Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Sony OMG!!!!! _____ Sony played this video at their executive conference this year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 20:37:42 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:37:42 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Solar and Wind are not renewable. Message-ID: <003b01c9899e$9d9b0470$d8d10d50$@net> This message calls a spade a spade and is one that I have been trying to get across for a long time. When President Obama is talking about creating "green" jobs, there is a serious question as to whether they really are green. And while this article below does not go into it, nuclear power is certainly neither green nor renewable. The amount of subsidies required just to get a nuclear plant built is one big concern, and the EroEI factor discussed below is extremely lopsided. Plus there is no safe way to dispose of the waste -- ask any one, particularly the Native Americans, in the Columbia River Basin about this -- about how their people are suffering and dying because the government authorized the dumping of nuclear waste there and now that the containers are leaking and threatening to pollute the whole Columbia River Basin, the problem is being ignored by those in charge. I forwarded an article on this awhile back. About the only real solutions to the energy problem may be passive solar and thermal energy, along with cob which is the mixing of straw with cement. Adobe may also be viable. Straw or hemp bale load-bearing structures may also be of benefit. Hemp may also be used to manufacture pressed wood which can be used in cabinet and furniture manufacture, but there is still the energy consumed in manufacturing that may be of concern. For more information on things like this may I suggest visiting the DCAT website www.dcat.com hosted by David Eisenberg. David is a long-time friend of mine and someone you can trust to give you a straight answer. There is a "straw-bale" network of people available to answer questions related to just about any form of alternative construction. Several years back when it was extremely cold in China, people knowledgeable in straw bale construction went there to aid people living in yurts and whose cattle were dying, to save both themselves and their animals using straw bales as insulation. These are wonderful, wonderful people to know. What I want to do with the FutureDawning.org website, if I ever get it up, is to feature people like David who have answers to questions that most of us would never dream of asking until the shit hits the fan. The same goes for people working on the Transition California and Transition U.S. websites, along with Richard Heinberg and others working with the Post-Carbon Institute. If you are not already linked-in please do so before it's too late. The life you save may be that of your own and your family members. m r -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:21 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Solar and Wind are not renewable. (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Energy in the real world by John Weber http://www.energybulletin.net/node/47606 Published Jan 1 2009 by Energy Bulletin Solar and Wind are not renewable. The energy from solar and from wind is available but not renewable. An oak tree is renewable. A horse is renewable. They reproduce themselves. But, and a very important but, the human made equipment used to capture solar energy or wind energy is not renewable. In fact, there is considerable fossil fuel energy embedded in this equipment. The glazing on a solar collector of any kind - solar thermal water, solar thermal air, and solar electric - requires energy to manufacture. Aluminum comes from bauxite. It takes considerable energy to refine the bauxite. When I was fourteen, I worked loading trucks in an aluminum extrusion plant. The ingots of aluminum would be heated, pushed through a die to shape, then cut and put on carts. We would take these carts and move them into a small room heated to around 400 degrees F where they were baked. Because this was Florida, we would be fairly dripping with sweat when we would go into the room to remove the cart. By the end of the day, our shirts were caked with our own salt. Copper also requires considerable energy to process. I saw a documentary on the History Channel show "Modern Miracles" that followed the mining of copper and the production of products. Mining, refining with both energy and chemicals, drawing the wire, and winding the wire goes into making both alternators for wind machines and motors for solar. There are unintended consequences to the manufacture of solar and wind equipment; including serious air and water pollution, release of deadly chemicals into the environment as well as misuse of humans in mining and processing applications. Besides these unintended consequences, which are critical to a future humane and livable world, there is an accounting method that is important to making energy choices. There is an important accounting system connected to energy decisions. Any system must give more energy than it takes to create/generate. This accounting system is Energy Invested on Energy Returned (EroEI). When it costs more to pull oil from the ground than we get back, then it is over for that well. On any technology, this has to be a main consideration. Many have heard that it takes as much energy to make ethanol as it provides. This makes it a dead end street. How many units of energy does it take to make a hot air solar collector or a hot water solar collector or a wind generator or a solar electric panel? Each of the components (aluminum, glass, insulation, wires, pumps, blowers, solar cells, etc.) needs to be computed for the accumulated energy cost of the particular technology. This must be compared to life span energy output of the technology. It is important to realize we are talking about the ENERGY output. The financial payback cost is actually secondary in this perspective. Perhaps these energy devices need an energy content label like food has a calorie label. If a system requires a 1000 units of energy to manufacture and it returns 50 units per year than it takes 20 years for the ENERGY payback. It could take considerably more years for the energy payback. Most "renewable" systems are heavily underwritten by fossil fuels. And many of the auxiliary parts of various "renewable" technologies (the batteries, the high tech control systems) are the weak link for long-term use. Energy conservation by insulating, weather stripping, and cutting back are the first line of defense toward energy independence and self-reliance. It is important for the future of energy use to be clear on these matters. These technologies (solar air panels, solar electric panels, wind, etc.) can be looked at as transitional. This means they can help this generation and maybe the next generation ease down the slope to minimal fossil fuels. I am not saying don't use these devices. I am suggesting we use them wisely. One approach to the use of solar and wind capturing equipment is to realize they can be constructed now while fossil fuel energy is available and relatively cheap. This is a way of creating a bank account of energy by using the existent energy to build equipment that can provide energy in the future. John Michael Greer explores this idea well in The Long Descent. As I indicate above, these technologies can help us ease down the slope towards a world of minimal or no fossil fuels. As fossil fuels become less available, judicious use of the remaining reserves becomes even more important. We must come to realize that fossil fuels (as well as concentrated sources of minerals) are a gift from the earth and previous to life. To mistakenly call solar or wind energy renewable and include the capturing mechanisms leads to both false hopes and perhaps poor allocation of limited fossil fuels and funds. From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 21:00:57 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:00:57 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] The Coming Electricity Crisis: U.S. to Experience Large Scale Electrical Blackouts Message-ID: <004601c989a1$db5b8d40$9212a7c0$@net> I believe these are real threats, not scare tactics. The infrastructure for the power grid has been as neglected as the roads, streets and freeways. And as we just read in the last message, solar and wind power are not a viable answer, only an interim fix. The real answer may be Zero Point Energy, and only a few people like Stephen Greer, Brian O'Leary and Alex Trombly seem to be concerned with getting this show on the road, although I do know that Hal Puthoff was at one time hot on this trail. Vern Woolf also has a fix for both waste retrieval and energy production. But these projects need money to keep them in motion, so I suggest donating whenever you can to these causes. Except for Hal Puthoff, whom I don't know, I consider all of the above dear friends who are honest and doing the best they can to make this world a better place. This also includes Dr. Patrick Flanagan and his wife Stephanie Sutton. These people, along with David Eisenberg, Jim Bell, and others whose names I will remember tomorrow, are the ones who never make the front page news as do the politicians, but are doing more than any of them to keep our country a secure and safe place in which to live. These are our unsung heroes -- members of the Blessed Unrest movement that never gets credit as no one knows about it for lack of publicity. We need to do more on this. m r -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:29 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] The Coming Electricity Crisis: U.S. to Experience Large Scale Electrical Blackouts (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) The Coming Electricity Crisis: U.S. to Experience Large Scale Electrical Blackouts http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-coming-electricity-crisis/ Nov 4th, 2008 | By Byron King | OK, so I don't have a copy of the Sunday business section from next March. But I think I know what at least one major issue will be within the next 24 months. The headlines will scream, "Power Failures, Price Spikes Plague Northeast U.S." And the same thing will also hit the Western U.S. And the Southeastern U.S. And parts of the Midwest. They sure did not talk about power failures in the presidential debates, did they? I don't know why not. All the insiders know about it. Indeed, power failures and price spikes are baked into the national economic cake. People who follow these things are quite sure of it. It's just a question of when, exactly, the lights will start to flicker. We already had one experience with a regional blackout. Do you remember the power failure of Aug. 14, 2003? Almost the entire Northeast U.S. went dark, except it occurred in the middle of the day. The effects were immediate on over 50 million people in the U.S. and Canada. Skyscrapers just stopped working - no elevators, no lights, no water, no nothing. Hospital operating rooms went dark. Traffic signals stopped functioning and people were in the midst of instant gridlock. If you ran out of gas, there was no power for the pumps at the gas station. Refrigerators stopped humming and large amounts of food spoiled. Rail systems stopped running - from streetcars in Toronto to subways in New York and Amtrak and freight trains in the middle of nowhere. FAA flight controllers had to communicate with airborne pilots via battery-powered walkie-talkies. Sewage systems shut down, and a lot of you-know-what backed up in many low-lying areas. The 2003 power failure was bad news, although short in duration. And then it was back to business for the U.S. Things became (if you will excuse the expression) "normal" again. Just like in Amity. Looking back, the utility companies got the power back up and running, right? And the experts investigated the origins of the problem, right? The people who know all about power grids fixed the problem, right? It could not happen again, right? The U.S. power grid has ample electricity-generating capacity, right? And there's plenty of transmission to move power from one region to another, right? Well, no. Earlier this week, I attended a privately sponsored presentation on U.S. energy policy. The main speaker was a senior faculty member from Carnegie Mellon University. This guy has been "doing electricity" for about 40 years or so. He has written reports for the National Academy of Sciences. When the people at the U.S. Department of Energy have a question about electricity, they call this CMU professor. The news is not good. In 2007, there were about 144 new coal-fired power plants on the drawing boards of the U.S. energy utilities. But, said the professor, "We will probably build none of them." Indeed, "The electric industry in the U.S. is in terrible shape," said the CMU man. So we should expect local and regional brownouts and blackouts to become common occurrences "within five years." But the first isolated instances of brownout and blackout will hit us much sooner than that. Why is there such a gloomy forecast? Because essentially, the deregulation of the 1990s was botched. According to the CMU electricity expert, botched deregulation "slowed investment, raised prices and led to more and more uncertainty." So now few utilities or their executives want to take political, regulatory, technical or financial risks. Hence, the entire long-range planning cycle has broken down. It's almost impossible to decide what to build, and at what scale. Costs are exploding, particularly for new construction. It's safe to say that most power plant construction cost projections have doubled within the past 18 months. The prospect of fast-changing environmental regulations also adds to the uncertainty. No one wants to build a power plant and learn in five or 10 years or so that environmental regulations are going to shut it down. Even the alternative energy industry - with wind, solar and geothermal as the poster children - has formidable challenges. The biggest issue is cost competitiveness. That's because alternative systems provide power at costs that range from slightly higher to much higher than traditional power from, say, coal plants. Then there are issues of reliability, due to the intermittent nature of wind and solar, and the still-novel nature of geothermal power. And other issues include the lack of transmission from the usually remote sites of wind and solar facilities. Overall, U.S. power producers face the prospect of many different forms of investment uncertainty. What will be the availability of different fuel mixes? Will coal still be useable? Or will natural gas be available at a cost they can afford? Can power producers invest in nuclear systems when there is still no definite program for disposing of the waste stream over the next 50 years? Or should the utility companies go all out for alternative systems? But the next question is how much can consumers afford to pay? And what rates will the regulators allow? If utilities invest in alternative power systems (like wind or solar) that produce electricity at, say, 20-30 cents per kilowatt hour (kwh), will the regulators set those relatively high costs as the level of reimbursement? And for how long? What if the regulators permit the higher costs for only a few years and then penalize the utilities because some "better" technology comes along? At the end of the day, the base line cost of electricity is set against the cost to produce comparable coal or natural gas-based electricity. And this cost setting occurs even though there is a growing bias against burning carbon in the U.S. political and regulatory culture. One attendee at the discussion commented, "When you're in a 'no-win' situation, guess what? You can't win." The CMU professor has looked at historical trends for power in the U.S. His best estimate is that over the next decade or so, the price for electricity will about double on average throughout the nation. "This would put the cost of electricity about on par, as a percentage, with where it was back in the 1950s." But that is only if people keep making investments in new power systems and the nation adopts conservation and efficiency measures on a large scale. Absent that? It's lights out. So you might not see it in your daily life - not yet, anyhow - but the power industry is currently paralyzed by the uncertainty of lopsided risks. And as old power plants age and go off stream, there will be less and less reserve power. Costs are going to rise. And reliability will fall. It's inevitable. So one investment sector that ought to do well over the next five years is power and backup power systems. And particularly, the companies that should do well are involved in power systems that are off the drawing boards and in some phase of construction, or near completion. Best wishes, until we meet again. Byron W. King From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 21:36:57 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:36:57 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] What the centrists have wrought Message-ID: <004e01c989a7$0b2270c0$21675240$@net> Is there any real fix to this except to just let it go and hit bottom so the Phoenix can rise again? While I know it hurts like hell, my feelings are we need a clean sweep so the real healing can begin. Like pus in a wound, the corruption needs to thoroughly drain. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:34 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] What the centrists have wrought (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) February 7, 2009, 5:36 pm CONSCIOUS OF A LIBERAL - Paul Krugman What the centrists have wrought http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/what-the-centrists-have-wrought/ I'm still working on the numbers, but I've gotten a fair number of requests for comment on the Senate version of the stimulus. The short answer: to appease the centrists, a plan that was already too small and too focused on ineffective tax cuts has been made significantly smaller, and even more focused on tax cuts. According to the CBO's estimates, we're facing an output shortfall of almost 14% of GDP over the next two years, or around $2 trillion. Others, such as Goldman Sachs, are even more pessimistic. So the original $800 billion plan was too small, especially because a substantial share consisted of tax cuts that probably would have added little to demand. The plan should have been at least 50% larger. Now the centrists have shaved off $86 billion in spending - much of it among the most effective and most needed parts of the plan. In particular, aid to state governments, which are in desperate straits, is both fast - because it prevents spending cuts rather than having to start up new projects - and effective, because it would in fact be spent; plus state and local governments are cutting back on essentials, so the social value of this spending would be high. But in the name of mighty centrism, $40 billion of that aid has been cut out. My first cut says that the changes to the Senate bill will ensure that we have at least 600,000 fewer Americans employed over the next two years. The real question now is whether Obama will be able to come back for more once it's clear that the plan is way inadequate. My guess is no. This is really, really bad. From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 21:38:58 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:38:58 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Fw: : Let Wall Street Die :: Voices for Change Message-ID: <004f01c989a7$2d169c10$8743d430$@net> Thanks, Mukhtar for sending this along. Here is the Blessed Unrest movement in action again with David Korten leading. From: discussion-bounces at globaljusticemovement.net [mailto:discussion-bounces at globaljusticemovement.net] On Behalf Of Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:41 PM To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice; Jharkhand; Bihar Network; masjidnabwi; Geoislam Subject: [GJM] Fw: My Friendship With Obama's Mother :: Let Wall Street Die :: Voices for Change --- On Sat, 7/2/09, YES Magazine wrote: From: YES Magazine Subject: My Friendship With Obama's Mother :: Let Wall Street Die :: Voices for Change To: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Date: Saturday, 7 February, 2009, 5:16 AM David Korten's new book is out :: Fran Korten talks about her friendship with Obama's Mother :: YES! video reports from DC Take me off this email list Forward This Email to a Friend Subscribe to YES! magazine Renew your subscription to YES! magazine SENT TO mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com MANAGE/CHANGE EMAIL | VIEW AS A WEB PAGE blank space blank space Building a Just and Sustainable World February 2009 Fran Korten, Executive Director, YES! Magazine Dear Reader, You may be catching some of the media excitement around Dave Korten's just-published book, Agenda for a New Economy. With Wall Street crashing and the government flailing, his message to replace Wall Street with a financial system that works for Main Street is catching fire.. Now here's a secret about this book. Dave wrote it in a mere three weeks! The genesis was his article for YES!, Beyond Bailouts: Agenda for a New Economy . When Dave's publisher read it, he asked Dave to turn it into a book, and they targeted the launch for January 23, when Dave was set to deliver a keynote address at Trinity Church in the heart of Wall Street. So Dave literally wrote night and day, the words pouring out from a lifetime of thought. Dave said "I feel like I have lived my whole life to write this book." I was with Dave in New York and accompanied him to his interview with Amy Goodman for Democracy Now! After Amy finished her interview with Dave, she discovered I had been friends with Barack Obama's mother so she called the camera crews back to interview me about our friendship. I think you'll enjoy both these interviews. David Korten on Democracy Now! Fran Korten on Democracy Now! Fran's signature Fran Korten Publisher, YES! Magazine Path to a New Economy Living Wealth, Illustration by Don Baker, www.evidenceofhumanity.org DAVID'S LATEST ARTICLE Don't Fix Wall Street, Replace It "Let Wall Street corporations and their phantom wealth machine slip into the abyss of their own making. Devote our public resources to building and strengthening Main Street businesses and financial institutions devoted to creating real wealth in service to their local communities." By David Korten Help Us Think About Our Future Issues Heart, Illustration by Don Baker, www.evidenceofhumanity.org spacer Illustration by Don Baker Take a deep breath and think about the things that have helped you and your community cope or even thrive in the past months of economic downturn. Whatever solutions the government, the business sector, or your neighborhood come up with, an economic reboot will need people power. Share your inspiration, strength, and creativity with other readers: What are you and your family doing to make it through the economic downturn and to help others during these tough times? spacer [Submit Response] If this form doesn?t work for you, please email us at editors[at]yesmagazine.org . YES! Monthly Cartoon Caption New YES! Cartoon Write a caption for this month's YES! cartoon. Winning entries will be posted online, and the funniest will be printed in YES! [Submit] YES! Bait Cartoon If this form doesn't work for you, please email your caption to YesComments[at]yesmagazine.org . ?No! Wait for the Euro, boys. ? The best captions for this cartoon. YES! Magazine Special Offer for New Subscribers, Get a Year of YES! and David Korten's New Book YES! Magazine logo How to Get More YES! YES! Magazine Special Offer for New Subscribers, Get a Year of YES! and David Korten's New Book SPECIAL OFFER A year of YES! + David Korten's new book for just $24. Subscribe today! POSTERS Hang 'em up and share the inspiration. EXPLORE OUR STORE YES! totes, back issues, books ? Voices for Change YES! Reports >From DC First We Need the Economy Fixed Youth in DC In challenging times, these three youth feel that the country has a lot more unity now. "Now it's time for all of us to participate," they say. Ready to Do the Work Tania in DC Tania says this is the first time she feels included in the word American. She is inspired by the idea of a renewed America. Obama Treads on New Territory Glynn Crooks in DC Sioux Glynn Crooks says: "Obama's presidency is an honor for his people but also for the people of America and the people of the world." If I Had a Hammer Singer Bethany Yarrow performs in DC Singer-Songwriter Bethany Yarrow inspires you to let your light shine. YES! is published by the Positive Futures Network :: www.yesmagazine.org 284 Madrona Way NE, Suite 116, Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2870, USA :: Phone: 206-842-0216 We never sell or share our email list. Use this link if you wish to unsubscribe from this list. Manage your email subscriptions | If this email was forwarded to you, sign up for your own YES! newsletters Get a Free Trial Issue | Contact YES! _____ Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00101.txt URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sat Feb 7 22:38:33 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:38:33 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Acts Of Insanity Are What Destroyed The Economy Message-ID: <005f01c989af$7ebb0e40$7c312ac0$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:44 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Acts Of Insanity Are What Destroyed The Economy (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/Ac ts_Of_Insanity_Are_What_Destroyed_The_Economy Acts Of Insanity Are What Destroyed The Economy Posted: February 4 2009 Just more Keynsianism in the works, health of banks getting worse despite injections, Why not just let them fail and prosecute their officers for fraud? no end to the bailouts, insane acts of economics, Davos a bust, the world will eventually move away from the dollar As hard as the new president and elitist team tries the stimulus package will fail. Just more Keynesianism, similar to what was attempted unsuccessfully in the 1930s. After 1-1/2 years of massive financial injection the health of banks is getting worse. We see them needing $2 trillion and others see the figure at $4 trillion - money we do not have, that will have to be created and monetized. That doesn?t count the interest taxpayers will have to pay, some $1.5 trillion on $4 trillion. The administration and others are in un-chartered waters. You won?t be told this, but this is an experiment. Protecting banks, mortgages and other loans against loss is not the province of government. This is not protecting the people. A bank for toxic assets is not the answer either. It just passes debt from lenders to the public. Why inject funds into bankrupt banks and other financial firms? Just allow them to go under and prosecute their officers. They all committed fraud. Taking ownership stake is next to useless if the entities are insolvent. This is not nationalization; it is consolidated privatization under the Fed. Furthermore, the issuance of stock as part of a loan package dilutes the equity of current shareholders, who them sell driving the price of the shares lower. That could cause a run of the banks. Removing toxic assets from banks? balance sheets is an exercise in futility. The lenders get off the hook and the public pays for the mistakes. If government pays marked-to-market price for toxic assets then all the other financial firms that haven?t received the same treatment as yet will have a large hole cut in their balance sheets, triggering losses and precipitating the collapse of companies throughout the banking system. There is no easy way around the problem. The only sensible thing is to allow these speculating financial firms to go under. They took the risks, lost, and we pay for it. As you can see if allowed to continue the bailout will take many other firms down the same path they would have embarked on anyway. It will just take a little longer and cost the taxpayer $20 to $30 trillion. Their game of 3-card-Monte is not going to work and Illuminist Obama?s team A knows that. The pricing of these toxic assets is at the heart of the matter. In fact they have to be dealt with directly. If that happens the system can be purged. Buying up the distressed assets just allows the movement of them from one balance sheet to another. It matters not what you call it ? it is a Ponzi scheme. If all this wasn?t enough, having bailed out the commercial paper market as well, the Fed is poised to launch an initiative soon to restart into highly rated commercial paper, ABS, asset backed securities, such as credit card debt, student loans and auto loans. Then they intend to expand their initiative to help free up loans for municipalities, small business, commercial real estate and other consumer debt. There is no end to the bailouts. It has become a nightmare. They are worse off now than when this began 19 months ago. What you are seeing has been deliberately done to bring you into the world of corporatist fascism and into World Government. Yes, we certainly need banks and they need leverage, but not 40 to 1 leverage, 8 to 1 leverage. We need a central bank. The US Treasury not the Federal Reserve. Banks should effectively price the cost of money and use that mechanism to finance our economy. Banks should never have been lending to Wall Street and hedge fund speculators that were and are using enormous leverage. The Fed and the bankers allowed unfiltered, credit creation, which was very profitable while it lasted. All of this financial wealth was concentrated among the wealthy and powerful ? the elitists of our time. In its process a bubble was created, which has enveloped and is in the process of destroying our financial system. Many want the Fed, the government and the taxpayers to bail out the system. If we do that we are playing their game and we accept defeat. We are told there is no real alternative, but that is not true. Government, the bankers and Wall Street have never done anything right. They have had the power to do so but have refused to do so. It is always, more profit and power for the rich and that never-ending desire for World Government. It was all planned that way. There has not been a free market in our capitalistic society for a long time. These hucksters should be criticized and exposed to the fullest for what they have done and are now doing. They won?t compromise and neither should we. There is nothing inevitable about government control of banking, finance and commerce. We have been sold out by all our leaders, but the game isn?t over yet. We?ll either stop these people or die trying. Putting it blandly, we are surrounded by whores. The madness of espousing invasive fiscal and monetary stimulus to ward off the horrible evils of deflation is an excuse to lay the groundwork for a greater depression and a greater collapse. We say it is insane to target asset prices, rig all stocks, forex and commodity markets, to suppress prices in one area and increase them in another. It is insane to bailout banks, brokerage firms, insurance companies and select elitist transnational corporations. It is insane to borrow and print money and credit to support prices in the debt securitization marketplace. It is insane to try to bail out one quadrillion dollars worth of derivatives. There is no way you can reverse a black hole. $100 trillion won?t resuscitate the system. Washington cannot run Washington, so they can?t run long-term investment or wealth creation. Economic stabilization should be pointed toward long-term jobs and that can only be attained with tariffs on goods and services. No more market manipulation and unreasonable leveraging. The greedy and corrupt of every nation in history have always found justification whether it?s cold war or terrorism to peddle national security as a front. Everything bankers, Wall Street, corporate America and government do is for personal profit. It is always conflict of interests, and double standards. Only today it is worse in America than it has ever been. Politicians, diplomats, bureaucrats, military officers, and businessmen have been involved in falsification and manipulation of facts and records. There are the cynical, misguided and the profiteers and those bent on one-world government, all aided by extraordinary corruption. All the filth manages to be swept under the rug and this vermin lives on. In facts and stores from another world. William Lynn was appointed to be Deputy Defense Secretary. He was the Pentagon comptroller who somehow lost $2 trillion in defense contractor funds. Mark Patterson is Chief of Staff for Timothy Geithner and was a high level Goldman Sachs lobbyist. Why is the fraud by Bernie Madoff any different from other frauds on Wall Street by Goldman Sachs, Lehman, JP Morgan, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Citigroup ad infinitum? With AIG, as we said in the last issue, half the government is involved. The same government agencies such as the CFTC and the SEC are going to get more funding and power to better engage in corruption, arrange international market integration, asset controls, data collection and to put a worldwide stranglehold on your assets. They want to know what you own and where it is, so they can control everything you do financially. The insolvency of the financial world has to be hidden as long as possible or until the Illuminists can start another major war. In the meantime the lemmings are flocking to US treasury and agencies in what they perceive as safety. The only safety is in gold and silver related assets. In stimulus little will reach the average household. The majority of funds will go to bailout the fraudsters in banking, insurance and Wall Street. This is no chicken in every pot. Today?s zero interest rates punish savers and force people to speculate in such places as the stock market. The bulk of the stimulus is for further speculation. What else can you call bailing out companies in or on the edge of insolvency? We?ll let you in on a secret. Ten times more stimulus, $100 trillion, won?t fix our financial system. Can there be a recovery? Not a chance. Layoffs and store and factory closings will go on indefinitely. Volume will fall in exchanges, as banks, brokerage houses, insurance companies and all matter of employers go out of business. The biggest companies are getting hit very hard exactly as we predicted. Almost five years ago we forecast the failure of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as the fall in real estate. We followed that with recommending bailing out of the market at 14,000 and getting out of commercial real estate. The next bomb to hit will be the pension bomb. Both the stock market and bond markets are headed much lower; 50% lower. That is bad news for pensions and insurance companies, as well as anyone invested in those markets. The only thing left that is safe are gold and silver assets. The implosion will probably begin in state, local and private pension plans. Good portions of their assets are illiquid, perhaps 15% to 20% and there is no telling how long they will remain that way. Last year funds lost about 30%, the worst year on record. Cities such as Vallejo, California has filed for bankruptcy, and CALPERS lost 35%. San Diego is on the edge of disaster as well. America?s 500 largest companies have a deficit of $200 billion in their pension plans. We would guess that if our prediction of a 4,000 Dow becomes a reality that the deficit would rise to $400 to $500 billion. Those with defined-benefit pensions may soon find themselves choosing between making payroll or pumping money into their pension plans. You know what the companies will do ? stop contributing. As usual government will let them off the hook. They may cut benefits by 50% to 75%, so get ready for it. It?s when government decides to cut back on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., that the real revolution will get underway. We predicted all this eight years ago and it will soon come to pass. Only 19% of corporate workers have pension plans. The retirement system of 2,600 public pension funds, federal retirement accounts and union-based defined benefit plans and union pensions are worth $4.5 trillion. They cover 27 million people or 30% of the $15 trillion held in retirement accounts. Many of the pensions were heavily into socially responsive investing, which has proven to be an expensive experience. The most aggressive has been CALPERS, which lost 35% last year. Others were AIG, Citigroup and Bank of America, all of which are bankrupt. Social issues should play no part in investment decisions, especially when it is someone else?s money you are losing. It is not the intention of retirement pools to become political footballs. Over a 20-year period public pension plans earned rates of return substantially below those of other professionally managed funds. This is a result of political pressure and outright payoffs. CALPERS sold all their tobacco stocks and following that tobacco stocks rose 250% versus S&P and 500% versus Nasdaq. Financial stocks were just right for pension and profit sharing funds. We do not have to tell you what a disaster they?ve been. The geniuses at CALPERS had 25% of its $20 billion in real estate assets in the California market that is still a long way from the bottom with no buyers in sight. What happens when there is a shortfall in pension assets is that taxes are raised. The pension bomb is on the way. Within two years the worst will begin to be realized. Budgets for education are being slashed and there are lots of unhappy people out there. In Nevada, the governor proposed cutting higher education budgets by 36%. At UNLV, that means a cut of 52% and a tuition increase of 225%. This is happening all over the country and could lead to rioting as we saw in Paris in 1968 over educational issues. States are looking at $300 billion worth of deficits this year and next, because the people running state and municipal governments are so incompetent. Twenty-six states have already either cut their budget for higher education; raised tuition fees or both. While costs skyrocket the increases still are going to administrative and support services. What a scam. Fifty percent of high school students do not graduate. We have a nation where half our students are morons. We do not have vocational schools - so what do we do with them? Waste more money on them? At least 1/3rd of college students should not be in college, where only 45% graduate. We meet people who have graduated from college in the past 30 years and are simply out to lunch. All you have to do is look at history to see the tried and true method of failure. In a credit collapse you issue massive amounts of money and credit. That is what America and the world is doing. We are in an inflationary spiral that cannot be stopped because if it is the entire system will collapse. When this hyperinflation is over deflation begins and that is when the political response will be the imposition of a full fascist government. Your currency will have fallen in value as well as other currencies. The only thing people will want will be gold and silver coins. The pending bailouts will take up to 3 to 9 months to be felt and then they?ll have exhausted themselves physically and psychologically. That is when the next cycle of bailouts will come. All this money and credit will have little affect on your keeping your job and paying your mortgage. The only real change will be the US Treasury and the Fed to take over the government. There is little difference between a Paulson or Geithner, it will be the same old thing. Both were in part responsible for the death of Glass-Steagall during the Clinton terms that prohibited banks and insurance companies and brokerage houses from engaging in nefarious Ponzi schemes, as they had in the 1930s. Just more of the same gang of elitists. These crooks that caused all these problems are still in command of the economy. People will start to realize over the next six months how serious this depression is when they see ??s of malls empty and whole buildings in Manhattan without a tenant. The entire brokerage, insurance and banking industries are frozen and huge amounts of money will be lost taking down banks, insurance companies and private equity groups. This depression we are already in will be far worse than the 1930s. In an economy where 72% of GDP is the engine of success that sector has to be catered too. As unemployment rises income stops and as house prices fall asset depreciation takes place. At the same time 10% inflation eats away at buying power. These are the people who need help, not Wall Street and the bankers. The stimulus of $850 billion should go to the public to spend and to pay down overdue bills. In fact a lot more than $850 billion is needed, probably 10 or 15 times that amount. This could get America back on its feet. The dollar would fall 40% or 50% against other currencies but so what. It is going to fall anyway with all the trillions of dollars being injected into the financial sector. In this process we could get rid of the Fed and the income tax. California officials must immediately implement Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger?s order that state employees take two days off without pay each month, a judge has ruled. Starting next week, 238,000 state employees will be furloughed on the first and third Friday of each month. Even the DMV will be closed. This is a tribute to the incompetence of some state governments. California is in a dreadful mess that began in 1990. Such an adjustment will have devastating financial consequences for some workers and on the economy as a whole. By June 30, 2010 the state will owe $42 billion. Refunds to taxpayers and other payments will be suspended 2/1/09, because the state doesn?t have the money to pay them. The furloughs will remain in place even if he and lawmakers reach a budget agreement that addresses the deficit. The equivalent of a 9-1/2% pay cut, the move will save the state about $1.3 billion through 6/20/10. Unemployment-insurance call centers, where the phones have been ringing off the hook, will get shut two Fridays each month. This has been coming for 18 years. New York City says they will probably cut 23,000 jobs. Goldman Sachs tells us that they will have dismal fourth quarter profits. Bad forecasts from companies as well will show waning investor confidence in the economic stimulus plan may drive the S&P 500 to 752.44 or 6,770 on the Dow. They are recommending a put spread. It will not belong before dollar holders will be through rolling their obligations and when that happens the dollar will descend. The World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, was a bust. The theme was the bankers are responsible for all our problems and the answer is financial protectionism. That means the US is taking care of itself and no one else; that America crowd?s out the world?s access to credit while continuing to live beyond their means. It is only a matter of time before the world moves away from the dollar. The Chinese own $681.9 billion of US Treasuries. Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said whether we will continue to buy US Treasuries, or how much we buy depends on our own need for maintaining the value of our foreign reserve investments and keeping them secure. What he is saying here is maybe we will and maybe we won?t keep buying. From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 8 10:26:22 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:26:22 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [FixGov] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] What the centrists have wrought Message-ID: <001901c98a12$60022ed0$20068c70$@net> From: FixGov at yahoogroups.com [mailto:FixGov at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Ellis Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:20 AM To: FixGov at yahoogroups.com Cc: 'Discussion Forum for Global Justice' Subject: Re: [FixGov] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] What the centrists have wrought On 07, Feb 2009, at 11:36 PM, mary rose wrote: > Is there any real fix to this except to just let it go BE: "Fix" is a confusing word. But you are right. The bailouts and fix the market plans only lead us to more of the same. What is needed is a radically different system of production and distribution -- an alternative to economics. And many creative progressives have been building its roots for a couple or more decades. Community Loan funds, local scripts, peer lending, CoHousing, food co-op, CSAs and many other cooperative community schemes have protected their participents from much of the economic collapse. Most of them would create an alternative to economics rather than fix it. How do we help other DO SOMETHING ? Bill, there is a whole lot going on, you keep mentioning the list of things above, and the worldwide Transition movement is taking place with training going on in many communities around the world. To view this start with Transition California: transitioncalifornia.ning.com/ which will lead you to other sites around the world. I am working on getting the FutureDawning.org website up which will unite the women's, sustainable living, and human consciousness movements, and as well create a space for all the other movements that make up the BLESSED UNREST movement as revealed by Paul Hawken in his book of the same name. So, this is a website for people who are in transition already or want to learn how to get there from here. It is both a learning center and a think tank. I was held up by the computer crash I had from getting it up sooner. And, it is a very large project. While the website itself constitutes a learning center and a think tank we also have a way of implementing the ideas which emanate from the think tank into being in the live communities worldwide. It is possible using the website as a virtual center to enable and empower as many as 1 million communities or more to simultaneously transform from conventional to sustainable communities all at the same time and share information with one another while in the process so everyone knows what works and what doesn't through hands-on experience. But experience gathered on a small scale initially so nothing gets out of hand as has for instance Bio-engineered foods. Was approached by a company in Europe to do some consulting for them as they are working on a similar project and didn't quite know how to handle some things. But I want to focus my efforts on FutureDawning.org, so gave them some advice pro bono -- that way, there are no entanglements. . We need to get this underway and it's not about who gets the credit or who makes money - it's about getting this job done. I committed my life in the service of all humanity years ago, and my small social security check is quite adequate for my needs. And there are some very smart people who have aided me along the way with both knowledge and funding. Keep writing you book and learning as you do so, Bill. I have learned so much from the research I have done for The Sacred Quest. With love and appreciation for all that you do. SHIFT is happening whether we like it or not. mary rose . Bill Ellis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGaianParadigm/files/ __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE _____ From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Cat Group Join a group for people who love cats Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zone Check out featured healthy living groups. Search Ads Get new customers. List your web site in Yahoo! Search. . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 03:43:54 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:43:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] Michael Greaney, paranoid fruitcake In-Reply-To: <812709.84174.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <272948.10659.qm@web27401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ? Dear All, ? ???????????As I understand it Michael Greaney, and ofcourse Norman Kurland are Binary Economists. Ryan is crossing swords with the former, or so it would seem! ? ~~R.Searle ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, william_b_ryan at yahoo.com wrote: From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com Subject: [socialcredit] Michael Greaney, paranoid fruitcake To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Sunday, 8 February, 2009, 7:22 PM Let me briefly go back through Greaney's rather bizarre arguments to Mr. Likoudis in his letter of January 30, then I'll close with some observations about his peculiar psychology from my encounters with him over the years. I've archived Mr. Likoudis' article and Greaney's reply at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/greaney-likoudis/ His first substantive arguments begin half-way through his letter, where he excerpts two paragraphs from *Credit-Power and Democracy,* which he characterizes thusly: "The first paragraph describes the operation of a centrally-controlled economy, in which control --- property --- is taken away from the ostensible "owners" and vested in a 'Credit Agency.' This is just simply a lie. I don't know how else to describe it. I challenge you to read the paragraph again to see what it really says. Douglas is describing a situation where all payments go through a "credit agency." Today, as it was when Douglas wrote this, virtually all payments in the economy go through a credit agency, the banking system, which is a monopoly by virtue of its clearing system. The clearing system works only through very close cooperation between the banks. "This 'Credit Agency' appears to have the essential powers, though not the name, of an omnipotent, centralized State. The second paragraph substantiates this understanding by stating that, 'there is communal control of undesirable production through the agency of credit.'" Greaney continues his lie as to what Douglas meant. "Communal control of undesirable production" is what the competitive market accomplishes. People buy what they want to buy and are not forced to buy what they don't want to buy. Douglas is arguing for a reformed financial system to more fully enable the free market. "It is not clear how putting a bureaucracy in total control of production (the 'agency of credit') would 'minimize the effects of bureaucracy.'" Notice that Douglas did not say that the credit agency would be in "total control of production." These are entirely Greaney's words. Claiming that Douglas said them is part of Greaney's lie. Douglas was describing free enterprise firms making payments through the "credit agency," exactly as the payments are made today, except in Douglas' vision it would be through a reformed financial system. Two thirds down his letter Greaney pulls two sentences from *Economic Democracy*: "'All improvements in process should be made to pay a dividend to the community. (p. 101) "'Natural resources are common property, and the means for their exploitation should also be common property." (p. 111) "I believe that any person of ordinary intelligence who reads the two quotes will come to the same conclusion I did, that Douglas was asserting --- contrary to explicit statements in Catholic social teaching --- 1) all natural resources belong to some "collective" of the human race, 2) all technology belongs to the human race as a 'collective,' and 3) all production --- the fruits of ownership --- belongs to the human race as a 'collective.' As that appears to be the meaning of the two quotes in ordinary speech..." I'm sorry, but this is just another like. It's not what appears to be the meaning of the two quotes in ordinary speech. Douglas said nothing about a "collective" in the excerpt above. He did not say that all technology belongs to a "collective." He did indeed say that all "improvements in process" should be made to pay a dividend. But he most certainly did not say that all production should belong to a "collective." It boggles the mind how Greaney could so blatantly lie about something that he, and us, just read. The quotes simply don't say anything like what Greaney says that they say. I only came to some understanding where he is coming from in this letter by going back and re-reading some postings he wrote seven years ago, in correspondence with me. I've archived some of that correspondence here: http://www.geocities.com/socredus/kurland-greaney-depreciation/ "Major Douglas specifically stated that capital (the non-human factors of production, in which Kelso includes natural resources and technology, the 'means of exploiting natural resources) should be owned in common, i.e., by the collective. The entrepreneur (the 'improver of process) was only due a certain pro rata return. Everything above that level constituted the 'national dividend' and was owned by everybody equally." Let me translate this into ordinary language. Greaney is a propagandist for the "Binary Economics" of Louis Kelso. Kelso demarcated the factors of production into Labor and Capital, while the Classical Economists had demarcated them into Land, meaning natural resources, Labor, and Capital. In Greaney's mind, therefore, if you believe that natural resources are held in common, you also believe that capital is held in common, because in Greaney's mind, natural resources and capital are the same thing. So in Binary Economics, words and terms do not what they mean in ordinary language, or even common sense. I'm telling you, this man is not normal, mentally. Quite often he just comes off as a paranoid fruitcake. On December 15, 2005, Michael Greaney posted this to the Distributism list: "Several postings containing libelous statements against me were removed [from the Ownership archives] by the list administrator [Dan Bell] in lieu of my filing a civil complaint with the FCC and notifying the FBI of possible criminal activity (e.g., illegal wiretapping, harassment of state officials and private individuals across state lines)." Now, the supposed libelous statements were some of my postings to the Ownership list. The assertions were not libelous but factual. This thing about notifying the FBI of "possible criminal activity (e.g., illegal wiretapping, harassment of state officials and private individuals across state lines)" is just Greaney's fervent paranoia in action. Greaney posted this three days later to the same forum: "The rudeness with which Dr. Kurland and Dr. Norman Bailey...were treated [at the CCSJ conference] was an outrage. During Dr. Bailey's presentation on monetary reform, another member of the panel...made 'bunny ears' behind Dr. Bailey's head and made as if to pour a tumbler of water over him - all behind Dr. Bailey's back." It is simply paranoia in responding to frivolity at a social gathering as indicating ill will against his close colleagues, Kurland and Bailey. Good humor might be perceived as evil intent by the paranoid mindset, whatever its cause. Paranoa sees enemies all about, even in the pages of the Wanderer. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 04:50:29 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:50:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Blind Optimism Over Intervention In Banks In-Reply-To: <50d6441884463fbcd18142aee7b98f0a.squirrel@webmail3.lexi.net> Message-ID: <302540.64727.qm@web27404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Thompson Ayodele wrote: From: Thompson Ayodele Subject: Blind Optimism Over Intervention In Banks To: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 8:53 AM This featured article is published in today's Daily Independent http://www.independentngonline.com/oped/article02 Blind Optimism Over Intervention In Banks By Olusegun Sotola and Kayode Olowookere Last year, the chief executive officers of banks requested the federalgovernment to intervene in the nation's financial sector to prevent the effect of the global meltdown. Building on that, there are reports that the federal government might soon be part owners of some banks. The reason adduced for this is primarily to guard against distress in the financial sector. Hitherto, the central bank governor has consistently assured that Nigerian banks are healthy, safe and in excellent conditions. Of the 25 banks, none has publicly shown signs of needing intervention. Besides, measured by the financial statements and claims of profitability churned out annually by these banks, coupled with their ubiquitous opulence, depositors can be rest assured that their hard earned incomes are safe. It is therefore worrisome how suddenly banks that were said to be in excellent conditions are asking for intervention and possibly part take-over by the government. One tends to infer many of these banks are not as healthy as the public was made to understand by the Central Bank governor. Many of them might possibly have their accounts in the red. But the public was manipulated into believing otherwise considering figures from their annual statements of accounts. What is more shocking is the argument being mooted within the banking industry that government should re-invest in banks. Under this arrangement, government would acquire a controlling stake of 30% in some of the banks. The general concern is that what thought pattern and logic produces government as the best cure to banks' ailment. The outcome of the part ownership being canvassed is predictable. Before the commencement of the privatisation of the sector, banks were characterized by large-scale mismanagement. Banks became appendage of political party depending on whichever was in power. Appointments into the board were not based on merit or expertise but on political patronage. Sound banking practices were jettisoned. Banks' survival was hinged on cyclical governments funds. The privatization of the banks which began in 1992 salvaged the above problems. In the first place, it effectively ended government intervention in the banks. This helped in removing every vestige of mismanagement and inefficiency that crept into banks. Above all, privatisation improved banks efficiency and management policies. In fact, the bureaucracy that became the hallmark of banking system ultimately gave way for improved and prompt decision-making process particularly in area of marketing and product innovation. Secondly, the privatization also led to financial sector liberalization. As a result there was increased market competition and improvement in the asset quality. The call that government should re-invest in banks at this point is largely misguided and economic folly at best. The cardinal duty of government is to provide the regulatory framework under which the banks operate and create a favourable climate conducive for them to contribute meaningfully to the growth of economy. Experience has shown there are incentives for government owned banks, partially or wholly, to be mismanaged. This is because government is assumed to have limitless sources of revenue that will always be a safety net. The urge to be frivolous and extravagant is high. Government acquisition of equity is some banks will obviously create good bank and bad bank mentality except the plan is to re-invest in all banks. Government backed banks become good banks. Depositors will move their funds from "bad" banks. This was the experience in UK late last year when depositors instantly moved their funds to Irish government- guaranteed banks. Government re-investment in banks will have a devastating effect on the entire banking sector. A change in government will ultimately undermine and affect board composition and performance. Aside from re-igniting loss of confidence and run on banks as in the 90s, taking long-term decision will be a mirage. Expectedly, internal squabbles and boardroom politics will be full-blown and take the center stage. Those who are well do not need a physician. If the banks are safe and healthy as claimed by the central bank governor, it is anybody guess what type of intervention they actually need. The inference from call for government intervention and re-investment is that most of these banks are not as buoyant as their statements tend to show. Along the line, there are probably some cover-ups. Should this actually be the case, the central bank has abdicated its roles and functions in order to protect the interest of a few. Nigerians, shareholders and customers alike, deserve to know the true and correct financial situation in each bank. However, if the recent EFCC report confirming the financial standing of most of the banks is anything to go by, it is an indictment on Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) and Nigeria Deposit Insurance Corporation (NDIC). It further calls to question the central bank's claim that post-consolidation Nigerian banks have a total balance sheet of about N10.43 trillion, a growth of277% in between 2003 and 2007. A figure this large signifies depth - a N388billion capital market loan exposure is not supposed to rattle them even if gone bad. Government involvement in the banking system merely overshadows the gains of reforms in the financial sector. It is a road we have traveled before. It leads to nowhere. Part of the reasons government divested from financial institutions and other state-owned enterprises was largely because such investments constituted a drainpipe on the national purse. Returns form such investments were minute compared to amounts spent. It is crystal clear that the global financial meltdown is adversely impacting the local economy. It is not only the financial sector that actually needs government bailout. Other sectors need bailout. But the danger is that once a bailout is offered to a particular sector, other sectors stay in the line to ask for intervention. It is doubtful if the federal government would be able to rescue all the sectors without running into a financial hitch. Unfortunately, government intervention in the banking sector would ultimately be a reward for some bank chief executives who have become richer than their banks. It is an incentive for the chief executives to continue what brought most of the banks to their present state. *Sotola and Olowookere are with the Initiative for Public Policy Analysis, a public policy think-tank based in Lagos. Thompson Ayodele Director Initiative for Public Policy Analysis P.O.Box 6434 Shomolu,Lagos Nigeria Email:thompson at ippanigeria.org Backup: thompsondele at onebox.com Website: www.ippanigeria.org *****Good Public Policy is Sound Politics********** Tel:01-791-0959 Cell:080 2302 5079 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 10:35:56 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:35:56 -0800 Subject: [GJM] Peru Planting 512,820 Trees a Day to Fight Climate Change Message-ID: <006401c98adc$e10f3c00$a32db400$@net> Peru Planting 512,820 Trees a Day to Fight Climate Change http://ecoworldly.com/2009/01/11/peru-planting-512820-trees-a-day-to-fight-c limate-change/ FutureDawning.org Mary Rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com Always have my latest info Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 11:06:01 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:06:01 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Chrysler, GM Bankruptcy Looming in Detroit Message-ID: <007201c98ae1$13d9b800$3b8d2800$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:29 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Chrysler, GM Bankruptcy Looming in Detroit (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Chrysler, GM Bankruptcy Looming in Detroit http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/09/chrysler-gm-bankruptcy-lo_n_165100. html February 9, 2009 06:41 AM The government may force General Motors and Chrysler into bankruptcy to assure the taxpayers get back their $17.4 billion in bailout loans. The car companies, of course, say such a move would destroy them. Bankruptcy may be necessary, because, as Bloomberg points out: U.S. taxpayers currently take a backseat to prior creditors, including Citigroup Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., according to loan agreements posted on the U.S. Treasury's Web site. The government has hired a law firm to help establish its place at the front of the line for repayment, two people involved in the work said last week. If federal officials fail to get a consensual agreement to change their place in line for repayment, they have the option to force the companies into bankruptcy as a condition of more bailout aid. The government would finance the bankruptcy with a so-called "debtor in possession" or DIP loan, a lender status that gives the U.S. priority over other creditors, said Don Workman, a partner at Baker & Hostetler LLP. The possible bankruptcy isn't news to Congress. According to a document unearthed by The Truth About Cars, Congress had received a report back in December detailing how the bailout would likely fall short. A bankruptcy of the Big 2 could also spell disaster for Ford. According to BloggingStocks, a Chapter 11 filing would mean that many auto part suppliers would only be paid a portion of what they were owed, and would themselves be forced into bankruptcy. This would hurt Ford, because many of the firms from which it receives its components will be wiped out. From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 11:42:05 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:42:05 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Car part suppliers warn of collapses Message-ID: <007301c98ae6$25aff710$710fe530$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 7:48 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Car part suppliers warn of collapses (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Car part suppliers warn of collapses The Financial Times http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb494ec4-f3df-11dd-9c4b-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=a4 91f060-b57f-11dd-ab71-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1 By John Reed in Detroit Published: February 6 2009 01:04 Automotive parts suppliers on Thursday warned of a wave of bankruptcies that ?will be disruptive to every automaker worldwide? as they stepped up their call for a US government bail-out. Many parts suppliers have been brought to the brink of failure by collapsing car sales and the shutdown of most of America?s car plants in December and January. The industry is warning of a cash crunch from March 1 and seeking $25.5bn (?20bn, ?17.4bn) of emergency aid, outlined in working documents submitted this week to the US Treasury. ?Suppliers now face unprecedented challenges that have created a crisis in our industry with consequences for the nation?s economy as a whole,? said Bob McKenna, head of the Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association, which represents US suppliers. The association said it had had ?constructive conversations? with the Treasury, but no formal request had been submitted. Suppliers say they need $10.5bn of federal loan guarantees for their accounts receivable from General Motors, Ford Motor, and Chrysler, which banks are no longer accepting as collateral. The industry also wants direct loans of $8bn from federal troubled asset funds, and $7bn to create a ?quick pay? scheme to speed up their reimbursement for parts. ?The significant drop-off of accounts receivable in March is not just a one-month issue, but will be an ongoing issue,? said David Andrea, vice-president of industry analysis and economics with the Original Equipment Suppliers Association, which represents companies accounting for about two-thirds of North American supplier sales. US car sales fell to an annual level of less than 10m in January, compared with more than 13m last year and 16m in 2007. The suppliers? call for help is a further sign that the crisis at America?s carmakers is squeezing their business partners. Dealership groups are seeking $10bn of federal funds to help keep them afloat. The suppliers? request for federal aid exceeds the $17.4bn extended to GM and Chrysler. Some in Washington are sceptical about the likelihood of the industry securing its own bail-out. From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 13:06:25 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:06:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] The Guernsey "Magic Money" Story, yet again In-Reply-To: <540389.30309.qm@web54004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <472265.87466.qm@web27406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 9/2/09, william_b_ryan at yahoo.com wrote: From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com Subject: [socialcredit] The Guernsey "Magic Money" Story, yet again To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 7:19 PM But Ken, the Guernsey "magic money" story appears to be a mythology concocted decades after the alleged facts by greenbacker propagandists. There is an actual document appended to the Grubiak *Guernsey Experiment* book that contradicts the story told by the Grubiaks in that very same book. This is what I wrote to this list on April 27, 2005: "There is, however, the last appendix to the Grubiak book, purporting to be the reprint of a document. It is headed: 'Historic Reply of the STATES of GUERNSEY to the Privy Council, justifying the Guernsey Experiment. Here published, for the first time in full, since 1829.' "But when you actually do read the document in the appendix, as I have, you'll find nothing whatever about any 'experiment.' What you will find is merely justification by Guernsey to the Privy Council for going into debt, and their plan for amortization. In the excerpt below, the famous 'market' of the story is specifically mentioned, but the only word associated with it is 'debt,' not a word about printing and spending 'money' into circulation 'debt- free to pay for it:- "'THE words of the second Order in Council have already been cited. The right of levying the duty on spirituous liquors is granted for ten years; a condition is annexed purporting that the States shall not exceed their annual income, and on the contrary, that out of the produce of the duty, one thousand pounds shall be applied annually to the extinction of the debt; that condition is naturally in force for the same period, and far the same period only, as the grant to which it is annexed; it is necessarily so limited, because the means by which it is to be fulfilled, the produce of the duty, ceases at the end of the ten years for which the duty is granted. THE States are bound to prove that they have complied with the conditions of that Order; they did so comply, when wishing to erect a new Market, they applied for and obtained the order of 10th October 1820, which imposed on them, at their own request, the further obligation of an annual payment of four hundred and fifty pounds far ten years.'" "Look, it's not remarkable that various corporate entities, including governmental entities, especially in the early nineteenth century, issued securities which they tendered directly to vendors and were accepted by vendors in payment for things. Not far from where I sit is a museum, at Washington-on-the- Brazos, the place where the Texas declaration of independence was signed in 1836, on one wall of which is framed a 'stock certificate,' issued by the township, which circulated as money in the township, according to the caption. That's what creditary or 'negotiable' contractual agreements do--they can be transferred from party to party through endorsement, explicit or implicit. They've been so used for centuries, if not millennia. They are instruments of debt that are assets to their holders. Being assets, they can be traded." ------------------original message---------------------- Hi John. Of course the "Guernsey story" is correct, included as it is in the Channel Islands story as a whole. What on earth do you mean that "No one has come up with the missing documentation"? The total description of the proceedings of the Two main States, the Parliaments of Jersey and Guernsey, is a matter of public record, available, certainly in the last century, in English. Prior to that written in the local languages, reasonably well accessible if you have a command of modern French :-) The fact that no one, to my knowledge, has extracted from this mass of documentation what is of interest to modern day monetary reformers is down to lethargy, mine mainly :-(((( The information that would be of use to us is scattered through a multitude of paperwork. Even the fact that you, and many others keep referring to the "Guernsey experiment" is down to a PART of all this being known to British Nineteenth Century Chartists. Who drew close comparisons, in particular, between the funding of a major market hall in Glasgow, and a similar exercise in St.Peter Port in Guernsey. One of which was amortised from revenue in less than Five years, the other, the one in Glasgow, which was not paid for by the time it was demolished a Hundred and Fifty odd years later :-( Great shame the "Money Masters" team shot their footage outside the wrong market hall :-))) They were warned :-) As I think I have told you my own reading has taken me back to 1720 in Jersey. The records are all in the public domain. Ken. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 13:08:35 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:08:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Tap into Obama's 100 day profit plan -- just days away In-Reply-To: <1199813927.117926@foolsubs.com> Message-ID: <665468.31377.qm@web27401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ?? How to make money out of the Obama plan....from an investors point of view!! ? ? R.Searle --- On Mon, 9/2/09, The Motley Fool wrote: From: The Motley Fool Subject: Tap into Obama's 100 day profit plan -- just days away To: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 5:53 PM #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 { margin:0px;background-color:#022056;} #yiv180455353 #container { } #yiv180455353 #header { } #yiv180455353 #main-table { } #yiv180455353 div#main-body { font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 h1, #yiv180455353 h2, #yiv180455353 h3, #yiv180455353 h4, #yiv180455353 h5 { font-family:Arial;} #yiv180455353 #headline h1.large { font-size:40px;} #yiv180455353 #headline h1 { font-size:34px;} #yiv180455353 #headline h2 { font-size:20px;} #yiv180455353 #headline h3 { font-size:16px;color:#000;} #yiv180455353 #headline h4 { font-size:14px;color:#000;} #yiv180455353 #headline h5 { font-size:35px;} #yiv180455353 #headline ul li { font-family:verdana;} #yiv180455353 ul, #yiv180455353 ol { padding-left:2px;margin-top:5px;margin-left:20px;} #yiv180455353 ul { list-style-type:square;} #yiv180455353 ul li { margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;font-size:12px;} #yiv180455353 h3 { font-size:16px;} #yiv180455353 .quote h4, #yiv180455353 .quote p { font-family:Georgia, Times New Roman;color:#333;} #yiv180455353 .quote h4 { font-size:13px;} #yiv180455353 .callout { margin:auto 0;padding:10px;border:1px solid #ccc;background-color:#eee;} #yiv180455353 #eyebrow { padding-top:10px;} #yiv180455353 #eyebrow p { border-top:1px solid #999;border-bottom:1px solid #999;padding:5px 0;background-color:#f8f8f8;font-weight:bold;color:#000;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 table.buttontable { border:0;background:transparent;} #yiv180455353 .buttontable h3 a { display:block;font:bold 20px arial, geneva, sans-serif;text-align:center;background-color:#FFFDE6;border:solid 2px #fc3;border-color:#fc3 #c90 #c90 #fc3;padding:8px 2px;} #yiv180455353 .buttontable h3 a:hover { background-color:#FFFBC1;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 .sidebar { border:solid 1px #ccc;} #yiv180455353 .sidebartext p { font:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 #footer a { color:#99f;} #yiv180455353 #container { border-color:#294E72;} #yiv180455353 #headline ul li { font-family:Courier New, Courier, monospace;color:#000;font-size:13px;margin-top:5px;margin-left:10px;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 h3, #yiv180455353 h4, #yiv180455353 h5 { color:#000;} #yiv180455353 .quote h4, #yiv180455353 .quote p { color:#214563;font-family:Georgia, Times New Roman;font-size:14px;} #yiv180455353 .eyebrow { color:#FFF7B7;background-color:#376898;}#yiv180455353 h1, #yiv180455353 h2, #yiv180455353 h3, #yiv180455353 h4, #yiv180455353 h5 { font-family:Arial;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 .sidebar { border:solid 1px #698EB2;background-color:#F0F2F7;} #yiv180455353 .ul li { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;} #yiv180455353 .quote2 h4 { color:#2A67B1;font-family:Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif;font-size:14px;text-align:center;margin:5px;} #yiv180455353 .quote2 { border-top:solid 1px #2A67B1;border-bottom:solid 1px #2A67B1;background:#FFF url(http://g.fool.com/art/shop/newsletters/shared/bg_form_mega.jpg) repeat-x scroll center bottom;width:250px;float:right;padding:12px 0px 12px 12px;} #yiv180455353 #yiv180455353 #footer { color:#ccc;} #yiv180455353 #footer a { color:#fc3;} #yiv180455353 .tdimage { background:#FFF url(http://g.fool.com/art/shop/newsletters/18/header_600x85.jpg) no-repeat center top;border-top:none;border-bottom:none;} In a few short days... Dear Fellow Investor, On CNN last week, David and Tom Gardner were asked what the stimulus bill means for individual investors... the answer is straight ahead! Barack Obama will sign an unprecedented economic stimulus bill in front of a throng of clicking cameras... Punctuating a period of crisis and opportunity that only comes along at rare moments in history... Meaning, you can right now make a very profitable decision. (Perhaps making 2009 the year you one day look back on and smile, feeling the exhilaration of seizing a life-changing investment!) Of course, you'll need an edge -- a trusted, independent resource, and the direction of a proven investment approach. THAT'S WHY FOR THE NEXT 72 HOURS, you can snap up the lowest price ever (more than a 60% savings) on our flagship service, Motley Fool Stock Advisor! For more information on this rare opportunity, I urge you to read on... Good Investing, Kate Ward, Executive Publisher Motley Fool Stock Advisor Obama's 100-Day Profit Plan Priority One: Fix the Economy Now, with an estimated $850 billion projected to flood the market, here are the sectors you need to watch and 3 companies you need to know about right away. Why? Because they could make you very, very rich in 2009... Good Afternoon Fellow Investor, "The Motley Fool's panache is a cover for a belief in the old-fashioned virtues of patience, simplicity and prudence." -- U.S. News & World Report "The Motley Fool has always been a great place for beginners to cut their investing teeth, but it also offers enough of everything else to please seasoned investors." -- Barron's START NOW It began January 20, 2009, at high noon on the steps of the United States Capitol... The swearing in of America's 44th president and the start of a new administration... And the truth is it doesn't matter which side of the political aisle you're on... Because right now, things are about to move in a different direction. It has to do with President Obama's pledge (along with the likely support of the 111th Congress) to "swiftly and boldly" reset the economic landscape. His plan? To infuse an estimated $850 billion to get the economy moving again. And regardless of whether or not you believe this kind of stimulus plan is the right way to fix the financial mess we're facing... For serious investors, it could mean the opportunity of a lifetime. Because if you're looking to build real wealth in 2009 and beyond, you won't want to ignore where all this money is going. You see, Obama's massive new spending spree means that key sectors are about to be flooded with money from Washington. And inside those key sectors, a select group of companies is going to lead the way. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with a bailout plan... Instead it's based on a series of direct investments designed to jump-start the economy and spur a wave of job creation in the private sector. Which means while the rest of American businesses struggle to get out of this recession... These select companies will be seeing "locked in" revenue and profit streams over the next few years. It all boils down to some huge gains for investors who know how to take advantage of the situation. So when will the boom begin... which sectors do you need to know about... which companies stand to profit the most... and more important how can you use this information to build some real wealth in 2009? Here's the full story... 8,225% Gains Thanks to the U.S. Government... A look back in history shows that most major U.S. industry booms started when Washington began signing checks for research and development initiatives... offering generous tax subsidies... and establishing production mandates... Back in the 1940s it was the defense industry... In the 1950s and 1960s the electronics, auto, and aviation industries soared... In the 70s it was all about oil... And the 80s is when the?technology and computer boom began... But the biggest part of that economic story has to do with everyday folks like you and me... You see, when the U.S. government moves, and moves in a big way, investors smart enough to follow the money trail can become very, very wealthy... Let me show you what I mean... What most folks don't realize is that the field of computer science didn't even exist until the Department of Defense began pumping money into the unknown market of microchips. In fact, billionaire Larry Ellison's fortune and tech powerhouse Oracle all began with just a small contract from the Central Intelligence Agency. It's a deal that turned out pretty well for Ellison and those folks who followed the government's lead... That's because when Oracle started trading in 1986, it was a virtually unknown penny stock... But over the course of a few years, Oracle's business boomed, handing some early investors "once in a lifetime" gains of over 8,225% and eventually landing Ellison the No. 14 spot on Forbes' list of the wealthiest people in the world. Amazing. And how about back in 2005... That's when President Bush passed the Energy Policy Act.? The legislation was part of the administration's effort to make the U.S. more energy independent. A key component of the bill included a mandate for increasing the amount of biofuel mixed with gas sold in the U.S. Ethanol became the key additive, which has meant a virtual boom for the industry and some record-breaking gains for corn and ethanol production companies... In fact, since 2005, yearly ethanol production has more than doubled and stock gains for some of those corn-based ethanol businesses have soared. Here's an example... You may have heard of a conglomerate called Monsanto. As part of their business they sell herbicide and genetically modified corn. And since the passage of the Energy Policy Act, that division of their company has become one of the most profitable segments of their business... In fact revenue from all those corn-based products helped them earn $256 million in profits in just one quarter last year... triple the amount it made during the same period in 2007. And while it's still debatable whether or not the government's mandate was the right policy move... No one can argue that it's handing a ton of profits to some companies and big, big gains to smart investors... You see, prior to the Energy Policy Act, Monsanto traded for about $17 a share... But over the past few years, shares have rocketed as high as $140, helping some investors pocket gains of more than 748%. It all comes down to this... Throughout our history, not only has Washington's focus changed our economy and transformed our lives, it's also helped make some everyday folks like you and me very wealthy. And it's about to happen again... How Obama's "Priority One" Can Make You Rich... "The economy is very sick... the situation is getting worse... we have to act and act now to break the momentum of this recession." -- President Barack Obama It's really no secret how bad things have gotten... Investors lost $6.9 trillion of investment money in 2008... 2008 capped the worst year in the labor market since World War II, with the jobless rate hitting over 8% and... Last year bankruptcy filings among publicly traded companies rocketed 74%... Which is why fixing the economy is front and center for this new administration. So to deal with what President Obama is calling an "economic crisis of historic proportions," Washington is gearing up to unleash a flood of capital. So exactly when will all this money get moving into the system? Apparently not fast enough... recently media outlets have been reporting the pressure's mounting for Congress to fast-track Obama's plan. Which is precisely the reason I'm writing you this letter. Now with an unprecedented almost-trillion-dollar stimulus plan on deck, all you need to do is make the right moves today, and the U.S. government could help make you very rich... 2 Sectors and 3 Companies You Need to Know About Right Now... So exactly where is all this money going? Well, President Obama has some very specific ideas in mind: First off, of the projected $850 billion on the table, a big chuck is targeted toward rebuilding and upgrading the nation's infrastructure. "We will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s." -- President Barack Obama Part of the plan includes upgrading school buildings and repairing roads, bridges, and tunnels as well as modernizing more than?75% of the nation's federal buildings. All of which means a huge boom in the construction industry could be under way. In fact, state and local officials have already identified close to $100 billion of "shovel ready" projects that have already been planned and approved. Simply put, within a matter of weeks, a select group of construction companies is going to be receiving big checks directly from the U.S.?government. Simply by owning those key businesses, you'll have the chance to safely and easily make a small fortune. But that's not all... There's another key piece to President Obama's plan... It has to do with a massive restructuring of the health care system in the U.S. -- specifically through electronic medical records. By introducing new technology and computerizing health records, health care workers could "prevent medical mistakes and help save billions of dollars each year," says President Obama. The bottom line... the U.S. government is getting ready to move, and to move in a big way... So what's the best way for you to?profit from all that new government cash about to flood the economy? Here's what you need to know... Why This May Be Your Only Way to Grow Rich in 2009... Let me introduce myself... My name is Kate Ward, and I'm the executive publisher of Motley Fool Stock Advisor. Stock Advisor?is an investment advisory service created by stock picking gurus David and Tom Gardner. Six years ago they started this special service with one purpose in mind... To build lasting wealth for you and your family by helping you find deeply undervalued stocks. We do that by recommending to our readers some of the best businesses on the planet... companies that are flush with cash, have solid balance sheets, and show the very best promise for future growth. It all adds up to uncovering big gains for our readers... Gains like... Marvel Entertainment... up 737% Amazon.com... up 236% GameStop... up 202% As we move into this new year and a new administration, we recently uncovered 3 companies poised to be first in line to receive a large portion of the government's cash infusion. And investors who know how to take advantage of this situation could see gains of 200%, 300%, or even more... as I showed you earlier, it's happened before... That's why?we recently completed a special report with all the details on these businesses. It's called How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office. In a moment I'll show you how you can receive this time-sensitive and important research absolutely free... But first let me tell you a little bit more about these companies and why we believe these 3 moves could be the most profitable you could make in 2009... Your Personal 100-Day Profit Plan... Priority one of this new administration is fixing the economy, and in a matter of weeks, $850 billion is projected to flood the market. Here are the 3 companies we believe will be receiving a large part of the government's funds... The best part? Investors could safely and easily make a small fortune simply by following the money trail... Investment #1 in Obama's 100-Day Profit Plan There's a good chance you've never even heard of this company before, though it's listed on the Fortune 500 and its history dates back over 100 years. For decades, it's commanded a top spot in the transportation sector?where it plays a leading role in the construction industry. In fact, this company is a top player in the market for transporting construction equipment and materials. A role that will no doubt grow even bigger exponentially as President Obama's historic infrastructure upgrade begins. One of the things we like best about this company is its smart management team... They have a stellar history of being great stewards with shareholders' money... Like generating a strong 22% return on equity and paying out a quarterly dividend every year since 1941. Not only that, but in one of the most difficult markets we've seen in a long time -- recently this company and its smart management were able to grow its profit over 15% year over year. Amazing, but not surprising... You see, this century-old operation has been able to do what few other companies can -- not only survive, but thrive no matter what the economic or political climate... Through decade after decade, world wars, recessions, stock market booms, and stock market busts... Right now, with the market's recent sell-off, this company is selling at a bargain-basement price. Bottom line: This is a stock that could easily double in 2009. Investment #2 in Obama's 100-Day Profit Plan This company plays a unique role in the construction industry... They supply hundreds of thousands of parts and tools almost every construction company uses each day. And with a market cap of just over $2 billion, this small player is quickly becoming the "go-to" just-in-time partner for the many construction outfits that make up the $140 billion materials market. Customers already love this company's same-day shipping and competitive prices... And now with President Obama's building and infrastructure directives on the horizon, look for this supplier to dramatically boost its current market share and lock in a new stream of profits. This company also has a history of doing right by its shareholders, including generous stock buybacks and consistently paying a quarterly dividend (in fact, it's getting ready to send out more than $12 million to its shareholders in just a few weeks). Another thing I like about this company is the fact that several key executives own significant stakes in this business. Including one insider alone, who owns more than 18% of the shares outstanding. If you're interested, I suggest you act quickly on this stock, because it's already on the move... in fact, it's up about 20% in just the past few weeks. Add in the greater market share we see ahead, and investors can look for some big stock gains in 2009 and in the years ahead. Investment #3 in Obama's 100-Day Profit Plan Another key initiative in President Obama's economic stimulus plan is computerizing medical records for all Americans. After all the technological advancements we've made over the past few decades, it's almost unbelievable that two-thirds of our hospitals and 90% of all U.S. doctors still rely on paper patient records. Now with the U.S. population topping 300 million, you can easily see how this type of technology mandate will not only produce better and more efficient health care, but also a huge windfall for key health technology companies. In our extensive research over the past few weeks, we uncovered one tiny software company that's already built a strong position in large medical and dental practices. In fact, it's already been in the early stages of a major uptrend... Sales have grown on average 28% per year over the past 5 years... Its return on equity is a stellar 35% and... The stock has rocketed more than 700% over the past few years... And now that President Obama has given a green light for upgrading the entire U.S. health care system to electronic records -- look for it to really take off... Right now its balance sheet is rock solid with more than $67 million in cash on hand and absolutely no debt. And while most businesses were struggling to survive in 2008, for its quarter ending October 31, 2008, this company posted record revenue... up more than 30% over the same quarter for the prior year. A revenue jump that helped boost its stock price 20% even as the S&P 500?fell 38% over the same time period. Amazing. Add in the fact that the folks who work there are highly vested in just how well this company does -- almost 35% of its outstanding shares are owned by insiders -- and you can see why this is one company you need to know about and own in 2009. So here's the bottom line... As this new administration begins, there's no doubt big changes are on the way... Big changes for the economy, for the financial markets, and for a select group of American businesses. Simply by following the trail of all the money the Obama administration is about to unleash, you have the chance to build some real wealth back into your portfolio... not only for 2009, but for the next 5 years and beyond. And the 3 businesses I've uncovered are the best way to do just that. The secret is getting in early. Which is why I'd like to give you all the details on this opportunity and those companies right away. Everything you need to know is inside our special report How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office. To receive a free copy of this special report, all I ask in return is that you give Motley Fool Stock Advisor?a risk-free trial. Here's how it works... Build Your Wealth The Stock Advisor?Way... Right now Motley Fool Stock Advisor?is outperforming the market by 29%... Co-founders of The Motley Fool: Their website was ranked as the #1 financial education site by Barron's. Acclaimed authors of best-selling books, including The Motley Fool Investment Guide; Rule Breakers, Rule Makers; You Have More Than You Think;?and What to Do With Your Money Now. As well as Motley Fool Million Dollar Portfolio. The weekly Motley Fool financial column is published in newspapers across the U.S. and Canada. Television appearances include MSNBC, CNN, and Fox -- plus the widely acclaimed PBS show The Motley Fool Money-Making, Life-Changing Special. It's a point to be noted, considering just how brutal a year 2008 was for most folks... It's one of the reasons why Money.com calls Motley Fool co-founders David and Tom Gardner "among the most widely followed stock advisors in the world." The point is that?this duo is 100% focused on making real money, no matter what is going on in the markets and in the economy. And their investment strategies produce real results for folks like you and me. Just take a look... Marvel -- up 737% Activision Blizzard -- up 413% Amazon.com -- up 236% So how do David and Tom Gardner do what they do?? By drawing on a combined 40 years of stock picking experience and using a smart blend of growth and value investment strategies. You see, David's a dedicated growth guy.? And aside from solid financials, he's always on the lookout for companies that have an "unquantifiable greatness" -- companies that consumers need, want, and don't want to be without. And while not every one of his picks is a winner, this knack for uncovering the "best of the best" up-and-coming businesses has paid off in a big way... Like 138% on Netflix and 199% on Priceline. Tom also has a great track record of success -- he's more of a strict value guy who spends hours upon hours digging through the financials. Which means not only is he able to weed out those businesses with toxic liabilities, he's also able to uncover those best-buy businesses -- companies with valuable hidden assets Wall Street and the rest of the world know nothing about. Tom's helped readers move into some amazing gains... like 120% on Affiliated Managers Group and 95% on Laboratory Corporation of America. And they've been making those kinds of big-win recommendations month after month, year after year, since 2002. And today we'd like to make it easy for you to get in on these kinds of gains. And you can do just that with the recommendations you'll find in our recently completed special report How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office. I'd like to send you this report FREE of charge.? It's our gift to you when you begin a no-risk subscription to Motley Fool Stock Advisor. What is Stock Advisor?all about? Let me tell you a little bit more about it... How Just 60 Minutes a Month Could Make You Rich... We all lead crazy, busy lives... The money we have, along with the wealth we build, affects the quality of those busy lives each day. That's why every month David, Tom, and their team of analysts spend countless hours analyzing hundreds of stocks in order to bring you our best recommendations for triple-digit gains. Then they boil everything down into each Stock Advisor?issue... That's where you'll find an easy-to-read, easy-to-understand analysis containing not only our top picks but proven strategies that can help turn a small investment into a hundred-thousand-dollar windfall... In fact, two of their top performers are up 737% and 709%.? Which means if you had invested just $5,000 in each of those picks you'd be $82,300 richer today. $10,000? You'd be sitting on $164,600 today. Amazing. Just imagine what you could do with an extra $164,600... A down payment on the vacation home of your dreams... college tuition paid in full... a huge gift for your alma mater or favorite charity... the chance to reinvest for even greater gains... The possibilities are entirely up to you. And the best part? Well, aside from our winning gains, what may be surprising to you is just how affordable Stock Advisor?and our in-depth analysis really is... A one-year subscription costs just $199, and given all you receive each month, it's really an amazing offer. Just take a look at the column to the right and you'll see why this special offer to join our Fool family is an absolute bargain... Even better, I'll explain how you can take full advantage of our special offer without risking a single penny. But before you decide, there's something else I'd like to share with you... If you sign up through this email today, you'll also receive this trio of important research reports... Investing the Stock Advisor?Way Marvel Entertainment up 737%... Amazon.com up 236%... GameStop up 202%... What's the secret formula behind Stock Advisor's success? David and Tom Gardner reveal all in "Investing the Stock Advisor?Way." Discover the strategies Motley Fool co-founders use to pick so many triple-digit winners and help their readers beat the market by an average of 29%. Inside this special report you'll learn the full details of their 7 key investment principles plus... the individual stock picking rules they follow to uncover their biggest wins. If you're serious about your investments (and who isn't these days?), this is one report you won't want to miss. In fact, I urge you to check in with these strategies often... they'll help you figure out whether a stock you're thinking about buying is a good investment or not. Order Motley Fool Stock Advisor?right now and we'll send you "Investing the Stock Advisor?Way" absolutely FREE. 6 Danger Signs in 15 Minutes... Is there an Enron in your portfolio? Here's how to tell. David and Tom show you the red flags you need to look out for. These easy-to-spot, often overlooked factors can give you a window into the inner workings -- even the character -- of a company's leadership. These quick and easy checks will help you sniff out "creative accounting," fictitious revenue, and other ways companies can seek to deceive their stockholders. These shortcuts will help you cut through balance-sheet chicanery like a laser. Best of all, you don't have to pay a penny for "6 Danger Signs You Can Check in 15 Minutes." Just take us up on this Motley Fool Stock Advisor?offer -- at no risk, of course -- and we'll send you a copy absolutely FREE. How to Know When to Sell Far too many brokers and investment newsletters tell you to "buy" but never say a word about selling. But successful investing also includes knowing when to sell. David and Tom don't believe in selling before a company's fundamentals change dramatically (or you find an even better company). But it is necessary now and then. In this special report, "How to Know When to Sell," they reveal their simple, easy methods for quickly assessing your stocks, based on fundamentals. With these easy-to-use tips, you'll make decisions based on solid valuations rather than emotions or the news of the day. Following the guidance in this report could help you avoid a meltdown like 2000-2002. You'll know when to take profits, how to balance your portfolio, when to trim the dogs, and when to trade in your lower-performing stocks to pursue greater opportunities. YOURS FREE when you accept our no-risk offer today! You'll receive all 3 reports as soon as you begin your Stock Advisor?membership! As I mentioned earlier, every time Washington begins signing checks, offering generous tax subsidies, and establishing production mandates... industries and a select group of companies will profit. All you need to do is follow the money trail -- because wherever the U.S. government moves -- big, big profits seem to follow. So if you're interested in receiving How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office?and learning all about the companies that stand to profit from all the money about to flood the markets... plus some of our how-to investment guides...?here's what I suggest you do... ALL This and... For a limited time save $100, too! It's easy to get started with David and Tom Gardner's?Stock Advisor?and the Motley Fool family today. And for a limited time you have the chance to profit from Stock Advisor?for?1 full year and?take 60% off our regular membership price! Order right now and you can join us for a full year at the incredibly low price of just $79. That's $120 off our regular subscription price and our best deal available. And here's something else... Don't Just Make Your Money Back -- Here's How You Can Come Out Ahead! Here are 9 top stocks ready to rebound in 2009... It's no secret 2008 was absolutely brutal -- and no one was spared. But if history is any guide, the coming months and years will bring an epic market turnaround. The point is, these types of market busts and booms go in cycles. And the smart investors who take advantage of these low price points are the one's that come out much, much wealthier on the other side. And well-positioned investors won't just recoup their losses -- they'll rake in incredible profits. That's precisely why Motley Fool co-founders David and Tom Gardner recently recruited a team of the nation's top equity analysts and went to work... Get Stocks 2009: The Investor's Guide to the Year Ahead After hours of exhaustive research and intense number crunching, this cutting-edge team of stock pickers emerged with a list of 9 stocks that will position you perfectly for the coming rebound, including... Tom's #1 pick... This global entertainment powerhouse absolutely dominates its industry, and Tom confirms it has "thrived through every business cycle imaginable." That's why he's confident investors who get in right now will see at least 20% annualized returns over the next five years. An industrial juggernaut averaging 25% gains per year since 1991. Despite worldwide turmoil, this company increased revenues 32% in the latest quarter, and senior analyst Tim Hanson conservatively values the company at twice its current price. An under-the-radar oil play that dividend expert James Early calls the "best way to hit the mother lode." This company counts international oil giants like Aramco and Petroleos Mexicanos among its top clients, and despite the recent oil selloff orders keep pouring in. And you can bet that once oil takes off again, this stock won't be far behind. Today marks a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy tomorrow's headline-making stocks while they're selling at all-time bargains. But you must act now -- before the market rebounds and the Wall Street herd drives prices out of reach. And now for a limited time you can receive Stocks 2009: The Investor's Guide to the Year Ahead?along with our special report How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office?absolutely FREE! You get both reports as our gift to you for becoming a Stock Advisor?subscriber. Don't Delay... Once you accept your discounted membership to Motley Fool Stock Advisor, you'll have immediate access to our special report How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office"?outlining 3 of the top companies poised to profit from Washington's economic recovery plan. But that's not all... For just $0.22 a day and as part of your subscription to Stock Advisor?you'll also enjoy these incredible benefits and offers... As a Motley Fool Stock Advisor?subscriber, each month you'll receive 2 top stock recommendations from David and Tom. Along with the name and ticker symbol, inside the advisory letter you'll find complete explanations and rationales for each recommendation. You can also access the advisory letter as soon as it's posted online. 24/7 Website Access for Members Only: Read the latest issue as soon as it's posted online, research back issues, access special reports, and review Stock Advisor's interactive scorecard with the updated performance of every past and current stock pick. Weekly Updates and Alerts: Our alerts advise you of any changes or important information regarding David's and Tom's recommendations. Online Discussion Boards for Members Only: Gain access to the Stock Advisor?team of experts... and a very knowledgeable and helpful group of fellow Motley Fool members. Stocks 2009: The Investor's Guide to the Year Ahead -- a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy tomorrow's headline-making stocks while they're selling at all-time bargains.? Get in now before the market's big bounce. Investing Secrets From The Motley Fool: Receive "Investing the Stock Advisor?Way," "6 Danger Signs You Can Check in 15 Minutes," and "How to Know When to Sell"... which all contain some of our best investment strategies and tools. And here's something else... I'd really like you to be with us when we uncover our next round of triple-digit gains... So to help make your decision to join us an easy one, I'm offering you our "Keep Everything and Lose Nothing, Double Guarantee." Here's how it works... Sign up for?Motley Fool Stock Advisor?for the low price of just $79 today and test-drive all the amazing benefits and features I outlined above. Then, if you decide Motley Fool Stock Advisor?isn't for you, simply contact our customer service team and tell them to send your money back. You can do this up to the last day of your first month and I'll give you a total refund -- NO questions asked. Plus, you get to keep, with our compliments... all the recommendations from our past issues... all our investing articles and... the special bonus reports How to Profit From President Obama's First 100 Days in Office and Stocks 2009: The Investor's Guide to the Year Ahead. And you can keep our 3 additional special investment reports... "Investing the Stock Advisor?Way," "6 Danger Signs You Can Check in 15 Minutes," and "How to Know When to Sell" that I'm making available to you through this letter. Not only that... If you sign up and then decide for any reason and at any time after your first month not to continue receiving the benefits of your Stock Advisor?membership, I'll be happy to send you the remaining full-dollar value of your subscription. "The Motley Fool?stands out as an ethical oasis in an area that is fast becoming a home to charlatans." --The Economist "You can find vast amounts of information and help here -- all written in plain English instead of Wall Street jargon." -- Fortune START NOW The way I see it, with our "Keep Everything and Lose Nothing?Double Guarantee," you get all the rewards and none of the risk. Simply click on the link to the right and get started... it could be the most profitable decision you've ever made... Our Foolish best, Kate Ward, Executive Publisher Motley Fool Stock Advisor P.S. Interested in even greater savings on your new Stock Advisor membership? For the next 72-hours, you can save 55% off 2 years of Stock Advisor. Pay just $158 today and receive all the amazing Stock Advisor benefits for a full 24 months. To take advantage of your special 72-hour price and one of our best deals yet, click here now! All scorecard returns as of January 13, 2009. All other numbers as of January 23, 2009. This is a promotional message from The Motley Fool 2000 Duke St. Alexandria, VA 22314 Legal Information. Copyright ?1995-2008 The Motley Fool. All rights reserved. If you no longer wish to receive this email, please unsubscribe now. You may also add, change, or remove any other Motley Fool email subscription. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 13:10:33 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:10:33 -0800 Subject: [GJM] A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 Message-ID: <00cf01c98af2$798248f0$6c86dad0$@net> To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:09 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/deep-green In the future, economists will return to Earth The year 2009 will witness a tsunami of economic appeals to fix, as disgraced Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan put it, the 'flaw' in their thinking. Most will get it wrong. The proposals for bailouts, regulations, and government spending sprees all share one tragic flaw: They assume no physical or biological limits to human growth. Most economists cling to an 18th century mechanical universe that conjured an 'invisible hand' of God, which would allegedly convert private greed into public utopia. Indeed, a few got rich but the meek inherit an Earth featuring child slavery, sweatshops, a billion starving people, toxic garbage heaps, dead rivers, exhausted aquifers, disappearing forests, depleted energy stores, lopped-off mountain tops, acid seas, melting glaciers, and an atmosphere heating up like a flamb?. Meanwhile, a rigorous sub-culture of scientists and economists have been working to free economics from its eighteenth century quagmire by reconciling human enterprise with the laws of physics, biology, and ecology. Their time has come. This year, 2009, will signal the birth of a genuinely innovative economics that will eventually displace the patchwork rationalisations for greed. The new ecological accounting is variously called 'dynamic equilibrium', 'steady-state' or 'biophysical' economics. What about technology? Ignoring nature remains the tragic conceit of conventional economists, who presume we can grow our economies forever without regard to quantities of materials, energy, and pollution. Biophysical economics, on the other hand, acknowledges that there exist no cases in nature of unlimited growth. Dr. Albert Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Colorado University, urges economists to learn the laws of nature. Non-material values - creativity, dreams, love - may expand without limit, but materials and energy in the real world remain subject to the requirements of thermodynamics and biology. "Growth in population or rates of consumption cannot be sustained. Smart growth is better than dumb growth," says Bartlett, "but both destroy the environment." What about technology? Some economists imagine that computer chips or nanotechnology will save us from the laws of nature, but every technical efficiency in history has resulted in more consumption of energy and resources, not less. Remember when computers were going to save paper? That never happened. Computers increased paper consumption from about 50 million tonnes annually in 1950 to 250 million tonnes today. Meanwhile, we lost 600 million hectares of forest. Nor is the internet a celestial realm where ideas are exchanged for 'free'. Computers require copper, silicon, oil, toxic chemicals, massive energy for server networks, and garbage heaps for techno-trash. In every industrialised nation, energy and material consumption is increasing, not decreasing. Technology is not energy. It costs energy. Malthus revisited In the 1970s, World Bank economist Herman Daly wrote Steady-State Economics to outline the future of ecological economics. Daly makes a distinction between 'sustainable growth', which is 'impossible', and 'sustainable development', which is natural. "The larger system is the biosphere and the subsystem is the human economy," says Daly. "We can develop qualitatively, but we cannot grow beyond the biosphere's limits." A UK commission chaired by Sir Nicholas Stern called global warming 'the greatest market failure ever seen'. Pavan Sukhdev, economist for Deutschbank, estimates that forest destruction erases $2.5 trillion in 'natural capital' annually. Mark Anielski, an economist in Edmonton, estimates that 'ecological services' from Canada's boreal forests - carbon capture, water filtration - are worth about $93 billion per year. In the 19th century, Thomas Malthus and John Stuart Mill introduced ecological economics, warning that human expansion would eventually meet natural limits. Industrialists have mocked Malthus and ignored Mill for two centuries, but the evidence now suggests that the discovery of petroleum only postponed the effects. Many economists now recognise that Malthus and Mill were essentially correct. A 2008 Goldman-Sachs report about commodity shortages stated, "we see parallels with Malthusian economics." Popular investment advisor, James Dines, told a New York Investment Conference in May that food and fuel scarcities are a "result of a Malthusian planetary limit." Limits to growth are real," says Anita M. Burke, former Shell Oil and B.C. Hydro sustainability advisor. "We must embrace adaptation strategies that create new ways of being in relationship to each other and the planet. The solutions offered by growth economics are inadequate. These will be replaced by an economics that accepts the limits and laws of nature." Biophysical Economics "Energy used by the economy is a proxy of the amount of real work done in our economy," says Charles A. Hall, at the State University of New York. In the 1980s, Hall and others hypothesised, "Over time, the Dow Jones should snake about the real amount of work." Twenty years later, a century's market and energy data shows that whenever the Dow Jones Industrial Average spikes faster than US energy consumption, it crashes: 1929, 1970s, the dot.com bubble, and now with the mortgage collapse. World oil production plateaued in 2005, and as the price of oil rose from $35/barrel in 2004 to $147 in 2008, it added a $3.5 trillion annual cost to human civilisation. "That reduced discretionary income," says Hall. "The domino that led to a decline in aggregate demand, particularly for suburban real estate." Jeff Rubin, Chief Economist at CIBC World Markets, agrees: "Oil shocks create global recessions." A popular Wall Street publication, The Corporate Examiner, is planning a special edition this year on 'the end of faith-based economics', with an article by Hall and his colleagues. In October, Hall convened the first International Conference on Biophysical Economics in Syracuse, New York, and will publish a book this year. "Since economics is about the production and transfer of physical things or services that require energy," says Hall, "it is a biophysical science, not a social science." Robert Costanza, Director of the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics at the University of Vermont, will launch two periodicals this year: an annual academic anthology, The Year in Ecological Economics, and a bimonthly magazine, Solutions, for technical and popular articles about ecology and economics. "To repair our economic system," explains editor Ida Kubiszewski, we must realise that "the mounting environmental and social problems we face are systemic. Articles in Solutions will employ whole-systems thinking." The editorial board includes pioneers of ecological economics - Herman Daly, Ernest Collenbach, and Vancouver's Bill Rees, who developed 'ecological footprint' analysis at the University of British Columbia. Rees calculates that human consumption of the biosphere is 'already 30 per cent into overshoot', consuming more than the ecosystem can replenish. "We must account for the environment," says Rees, "reduce total consumption, and then address equitable distribution." "We are dying of consumption," says Peter Dauvergne, sustainability advisor at UBC and author of The Shadows of Consumption. "The unequal globalisation of the costs of consumption is putting ecosystems and billions of people at risk." To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. "Sooner or later," as ecologist David Abram puts it, "technological civilisation must accept the invitation of gravity and settle back into the rhythms of a more-than-human Earth." In the 21st century, human enterprise has reached the scale of the planet. We have to account for ourselves on nature's balance sheet. This is biophysical economics. It appears inevitable. Biophysical culture is what we will make of it. From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 13:15:59 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:15:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Money!! Message-ID: <314487.94907.qm@web27406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ? Dear All, ? ????????? May be of of interest ? ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIdgQkZZrD8&feature=related ? ? R.Searle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 13:38:43 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:38:43 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 Message-ID: <00ed01c98af6$6969a950$3c3cfbf0$@net> With a decreasing number of jobs available, and a need to feed oneself and family, many will turn again to raising their own food. In essence, reconnecting to the earth from which most of society has become dissociated is an act of healing -- it is a reconnection with our soul, to the things that provided meaning for us at the beginning of our social evolution. Driven by a religious fervor to get into Heaven as directed by the male dominant paradigm of the past several thousand years, it is now time to return to the feminine and integrate her back into our philosophy so that we may move forward into the future in health and wellness. Without the chalice the blade is useless. Let us find meaning together again in the fecundity of the earth which is representative of the feminine. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:09 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/deep-green In the future, economists will return to Earth The year 2009 will witness a tsunami of economic appeals to fix, as disgraced Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan put it, the 'flaw' in their thinking. Most will get it wrong. The proposals for bailouts, regulations, and government spending sprees all share one tragic flaw: They assume no physical or biological limits to human growth. Most economists cling to an 18th century mechanical universe that conjured an 'invisible hand' of God, which would allegedly convert private greed into public utopia. Indeed, a few got rich but the meek inherit an Earth featuring child slavery, sweatshops, a billion starving people, toxic garbage heaps, dead rivers, exhausted aquifers, disappearing forests, depleted energy stores, lopped-off mountain tops, acid seas, melting glaciers, and an atmosphere heating up like a flamb?. Meanwhile, a rigorous sub-culture of scientists and economists have been working to free economics from its eighteenth century quagmire by reconciling human enterprise with the laws of physics, biology, and ecology. Their time has come. This year, 2009, will signal the birth of a genuinely innovative economics that will eventually displace the patchwork rationalisations for greed. The new ecological accounting is variously called 'dynamic equilibrium', 'steady-state' or 'biophysical' economics. What about technology? Ignoring nature remains the tragic conceit of conventional economists, who presume we can grow our economies forever without regard to quantities of materials, energy, and pollution. Biophysical economics, on the other hand, acknowledges that there exist no cases in nature of unlimited growth. Dr. Albert Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Colorado University, urges economists to learn the laws of nature. Non-material values - creativity, dreams, love - may expand without limit, but materials and energy in the real world remain subject to the requirements of thermodynamics and biology. "Growth in population or rates of consumption cannot be sustained. Smart growth is better than dumb growth," says Bartlett, "but both destroy the environment." What about technology? Some economists imagine that computer chips or nanotechnology will save us from the laws of nature, but every technical efficiency in history has resulted in more consumption of energy and resources, not less. Remember when computers were going to save paper? That never happened. Computers increased paper consumption from about 50 million tonnes annually in 1950 to 250 million tonnes today. Meanwhile, we lost 600 million hectares of forest. Nor is the internet a celestial realm where ideas are exchanged for 'free'. Computers require copper, silicon, oil, toxic chemicals, massive energy for server networks, and garbage heaps for techno-trash. In every industrialised nation, energy and material consumption is increasing, not decreasing. Technology is not energy. It costs energy. Malthus revisited In the 1970s, World Bank economist Herman Daly wrote Steady-State Economics to outline the future of ecological economics. Daly makes a distinction between 'sustainable growth', which is 'impossible', and 'sustainable development', which is natural. "The larger system is the biosphere and the subsystem is the human economy," says Daly. "We can develop qualitatively, but we cannot grow beyond the biosphere's limits." A UK commission chaired by Sir Nicholas Stern called global warming 'the greatest market failure ever seen'. Pavan Sukhdev, economist for Deutschbank, estimates that forest destruction erases $2.5 trillion in 'natural capital' annually. Mark Anielski, an economist in Edmonton, estimates that 'ecological services' from Canada's boreal forests - carbon capture, water filtration - are worth about $93 billion per year. In the 19th century, Thomas Malthus and John Stuart Mill introduced ecological economics, warning that human expansion would eventually meet natural limits. Industrialists have mocked Malthus and ignored Mill for two centuries, but the evidence now suggests that the discovery of petroleum only postponed the effects. Many economists now recognise that Malthus and Mill were essentially correct. A 2008 Goldman-Sachs report about commodity shortages stated, "we see parallels with Malthusian economics." Popular investment advisor, James Dines, told a New York Investment Conference in May that food and fuel scarcities are a "result of a Malthusian planetary limit." Limits to growth are real," says Anita M. Burke, former Shell Oil and B.C. Hydro sustainability advisor. "We must embrace adaptation strategies that create new ways of being in relationship to each other and the planet. The solutions offered by growth economics are inadequate. These will be replaced by an economics that accepts the limits and laws of nature." Biophysical Economics "Energy used by the economy is a proxy of the amount of real work done in our economy," says Charles A. Hall, at the State University of New York. In the 1980s, Hall and others hypothesised, "Over time, the Dow Jones should snake about the real amount of work." Twenty years later, a century's market and energy data shows that whenever the Dow Jones Industrial Average spikes faster than US energy consumption, it crashes: 1929, 1970s, the dot.com bubble, and now with the mortgage collapse. World oil production plateaued in 2005, and as the price of oil rose from $35/barrel in 2004 to $147 in 2008, it added a $3.5 trillion annual cost to human civilisation. "That reduced discretionary income," says Hall. "The domino that led to a decline in aggregate demand, particularly for suburban real estate." Jeff Rubin, Chief Economist at CIBC World Markets, agrees: "Oil shocks create global recessions." A popular Wall Street publication, The Corporate Examiner, is planning a special edition this year on 'the end of faith-based economics', with an article by Hall and his colleagues. In October, Hall convened the first International Conference on Biophysical Economics in Syracuse, New York, and will publish a book this year. "Since economics is about the production and transfer of physical things or services that require energy," says Hall, "it is a biophysical science, not a social science." Robert Costanza, Director of the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics at the University of Vermont, will launch two periodicals this year: an annual academic anthology, The Year in Ecological Economics, and a bimonthly magazine, Solutions, for technical and popular articles about ecology and economics. "To repair our economic system," explains editor Ida Kubiszewski, we must realise that "the mounting environmental and social problems we face are systemic. Articles in Solutions will employ whole-systems thinking." The editorial board includes pioneers of ecological economics - Herman Daly, Ernest Collenbach, and Vancouver's Bill Rees, who developed 'ecological footprint' analysis at the University of British Columbia. Rees calculates that human consumption of the biosphere is 'already 30 per cent into overshoot', consuming more than the ecosystem can replenish. "We must account for the environment," says Rees, "reduce total consumption, and then address equitable distribution." "We are dying of consumption," says Peter Dauvergne, sustainability advisor at UBC and author of The Shadows of Consumption. "The unequal globalisation of the costs of consumption is putting ecosystems and billions of people at risk." To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. "Sooner or later," as ecologist David Abram puts it, "technological civilisation must accept the invitation of gravity and settle back into the rhythms of a more-than-human Earth." In the 21st century, human enterprise has reached the scale of the planet. We have to account for ourselves on nature's balance sheet. This is biophysical economics. It appears inevitable. Biophysical culture is what we will make of it. From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 04:36:58 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:06:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: U.S. Muslim Investors Profit by Adhering to Faith Message-ID: <861082.42513.qm@web94904.mail.in2.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 10/2/09, CAIR wrote: From: CAIR Subject: U.S. Muslim Investors Profit by Adhering to Faith To: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, 10 February, 2009, 4:11 AM #yiv247956569 .PoweredByConvio {display:none;} #yiv247956569 { background-color:#f7f7f7;} February 9, 2009 Forward to a Friend Support CAIR Contact Us Update Your Profile Hadith: God Accepts Only Honestly-Earned Charity CAIR-CA: Bank ?No Hats? Policy May Be Illegal CA: Muslim Investors Profit by Adhering to Faith (SF Chron) Canada: Radio Station Chastised for Anti-Muslim Comments GA: Scholar Surveys Islam in Atlanta, Finds Diversity UT: Jewish, Muslim Children Join in Song (Salt Lake Trib) Why the Muslim World Can?t Hear Obama (NY Times) PA: Muslims 'Still Waiting' for Results from Obama South Florida Palestinians Speak Out for Peace (Miami Herald) ----- HADITH OF THE DAY: GOD ACCEPTS ONLY HONESTLY-EARNED CHARITY - TOP The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "If anyone gives in charity (even a tiny amount) from honestly-earned money -- and God accepts only honestly-earned money -- God takes it in His right (hand) and enlarges its reward for that person (who has given it), as anyone of you brings up a young horse, so that it becomes as big as a mountain.? Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Hadith 491 ----- CAIR-CA: ANTI-ROBBERY POLICY MAY BE ILLEGAL - TOP Credit Union Journal, 2/9/09 An Islamic civic rights group has asked the Department of Justice to investigate whether Navy FCU violated a Muslim woman's civil rights when it denied her service because she was wearing a religiously-mandated head scarf, or hijab. The woman claims she was denied service at a Navy Fed's branch, despite telling CU officials that she wears her head scarf for religious reasons, according to CAIR, an Islamic civil rights advocacy group. "The woman has been banking there for four years and she's never had a problem," CAIR Spokesman Edgar Hopida, spokesman said. He said they sent a letter to the CU on the member's behalf and have filed a civil rights complaint with the local office of the FBI. "Under this bizarre and discriminatory policy, no Muslim woman wearing a head scarf, no Sikh man wearing a turban, no Jewish man wearing a yarmulke, no Catholic nun wearing a habit, no cancer survivor wearing a scarf, no Amish woman wearing a bonnet, and no blind person wearing sunglasses may enter a Navy Federal Credit Union branch nationwide," said Hopida. Navy Fed said in a statement, "In the interest of security and safety for our members and employees - hats, hoods and sunglasses must be removed when entering the branch office. Special consideration for cultural and religious garments is under the discretion of the branch management. Navy Federal is making inquiries into the recent incident." ----- CA: MUSLIM INVESTORS PROFIT BY ADHERING TO FAITH - TOP Matthai Kuruvila, San Francisco Chronicle, 2/9/09 As credit markets have imploded, triggering a global economic crisis, Islamically correct investors have seen a change of fortune: The conservative principles this small group of devout Muslims clung to during the economic heyday has insulated them from the worst of the past year's suffering. Their renunciation of the interest-based economy kept them away from investments in financial services companies, whose stocks have collapsed, and out of traditional mortgages. "There was a time two or three years ago that Islamic finance was considered simply too conservative," said Professor Ibrahim Warde, author of "Islamic Finance in the Global Economy" and an adjunct professor at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. "Right now, many people are recognizing that maybe it wasn't such a bad thing." Dow Jones Islamic Market Indexes, which represent benchmarks for Islamically correct investment categories, have been outperforming their non-Islamically compliant counterparts by 3 to 4 percent in key indexes. The two Amana Income and Growth funds, the largest Islamic mutual funds in the country with $1.2 billion in combined assets, have been outperforming the S&P 500 in the past year by 13 and 7 percent, respectively. (Both Amana funds also outperform the S&P index on 5- and 10-year comparisons.) Bay Area residents who bought homes through an Islamically compliant lender in San Jose, the Ameen Housing Cooperative, don't have to worry whether their lender will work with them if they lose their jobs. Islamic lenders are required to work in good faith with distressed borrowers to figure out ways to make payments manageable - and co-op leaders say they will. (MORE) ----- OTTAWA RADIO STATION CHASTISED FOR COMMENTS ON MUSLIMS - TOP Chris Cobb, Ottawa Citizen, 2/6/09 A veteran open-line radio host in Ottawa contravened Canadian broadcasting standards when he made ?abusive and discriminatory? remarks against Muslims, the national broadcast watchdog ruled Friday. According to the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council, Lowell Green launched an ?uninformed and unfair? attack when he told his CFRA audience in early December that the majority of Muslims are fanatics, and extremist behaviour is symptomatic of the religion, not just a radical minority. (MORE) ----- GA: SCHOLAR SURVEYS ISLAM IN ATLANTA, FINDS DIVERSITY - TOP Trevor Williams, Global Atlanta, 2/6/09 The diverse Muslim community in Atlanta reflects the spirit embodied by President Obama, that a new page of inclusiveness has been turned in American history, an Islamic scholar said during a recent GlobalAtlanta interview. The Georgia capital was the 50th out of 60 cities Akbar Ahmed is visiting as part of his ?Journey Into America,? a yearlong trip to study attitudes about Islam throughout the U.S. He and a team of assistants are conducting research, interviews and films to assess how Muslims feel about their life in the U.S. and how America?s lofty ideals of pluralism and cultural acceptance are holding up in the post-9/11 era. Dr. Ahmed, a former Pakistani ambassador to the United Kingdom, is on sabbatical from his position as Ibn Khaldun chair of Islamic Studies at American University. The findings from his study will be compiled in a book and documentary film. (MORE) SEE ALSO: UT: JEWISH AND MUSLIM CHILDREN JOIN IN SONG - TOP Interfaith music event unites hundreds Julia Lyon, Salt Lake Tribune, 2/8/09 Upset by killings in Mumbai last year and aware that innocent people were dying on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Alan Bachman set out to write a song about similarities. He wanted to express how two groups that have a long history of conflict are descended from the same ancestor. Months later, dozens of Muslim and Jewish children stood just feet from each other Sunday in the LDS Church Tabernacle in Salt Lake City and sang the same melody. After the crowd applauded, Bachman spoke about his hope. "You won't see that in too many cities," he said during the annual Interfaith music concert. "What happened in Utah must leave Utah and spread around the world." The song, "Children of Abraham," has already begun to have an impact. For many of these children, singing together was the first time they had met a child of the opposite faith. They had learned of their common heritage and how stereotypes should not be believed. (MORE) ----- WHY THE MUSLIM WORLD CAN?T HEAR OBAMA - TOP Alaa Al Aswany, New York Times, 2/8/09 President Obama is clearly trying to reach out to the Muslim world. I watched his Inaugural Address on television, and was most struck by the line: ?We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.? He gave his first televised interview from the White House to Al Arabiya, an Arabic-language television channel. But have these efforts reached the streets of Cairo? One would have expected them to. Mr. Obama had substantial support among Egyptians ? more than any other American presidential candidate that I can remember. I traveled to America several days before the election. The Egyptians I met in the United States told me ? without exception ? that they backed Mr. Obama. Many Egyptians I know went to his Web site and signed up as campaign supporters. In Cairo, which is seven hours ahead of Washington, some people I know stayed up practically all night waiting for the election results. When Mr. Obama won, newspapers here described Nubians ? southerners whose dark skin stands out in Cairo ? dancing in victory. Our admiration for Mr. Obama is grounded in what he represents: fairness. He is the product of a just, democratic system that respects equal opportunity for education and work. This system allowed a black man, after centuries of racial discrimination, to become president. . . We saw Mr. Obama as a symbol of this justice. We welcomed him with almost total enthusiasm until he underwent his first real test: Gaza. Even before he officially took office, we expected him to take a stand against Israel?s war on Gaza. We still hope that he will condemn, if only with simple words, this massacre that killed more than 1,300 Palestinians, many of them civilians. (I don?t know what you call it in other languages, but in Egypt we call this a massacre.) We expected him to address the reports that the Israeli military illegally used white phosphorus against the people of Gaza. We also wanted Mr. Obama, who studied law and political science at the greatest American universities, to recognize what we see as a simple, essential truth: the right of people in an occupied territory to resist military occupation. But Mr. Obama has been silent. So his brilliantly written Inaugural Speech did not leave a big impression on Egyptians. We had already begun to tune out. We were beginning to recognize how far the distance is between the great American values that Mr. Obama embodies, and what can actually be accomplished in a country where support for Israel seems to transcend human rights and international law. (MORE) SEE ALSO: THE 44TH PRESIDENT | MUSLIMS 'STILL WAITING' FOR RESULTS - TOP Students, profs hope Obama will improve attitudes toward Muslims Calum Davey, Daily Pennsylvanian, 2/9/09 Since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, "there has been a sense of fear about being a Muslim" in America, said Fariha Khan, associate director of the Asian American Studies program who teaches a class on Muslim identity in the United States. For the last eight years under President George W. Bush, the USA PATRIOT Act - which carried the threat of wiretapping, random questioning and searches at airports - made life "a nightmare." Obama's election and his first few weeks in office have offered many promises for America's Muslim community - promises that have raised expectations and leave many waiting to see how they will unfold. The waiting started early. During the campaign, Khan said, she was disappointed with his response to being called a Muslim. "I waited anxiously for him to say something," she said. And she is also "still waiting" for Obama to comment on the situation in Gaza. (MORE) ----- SOUTH FLORIDA PALESTINIANS SPEAK OUT FOR PEACE - TOP Jaweed Kaleem, Miami Herald, 2/9/09 As shoppers lined up last month at Al Salam, a Jordanian-owned grocery and restaurant in Plantation, they locked eyes on the latest broadcasts from Al Jazeera of a nascent Gazan recovery. Markets were reopening with basic goods. Classes were resuming half-empty. Across the street at the Palestinian-owned Middle East Fashion, a sense of distress pierced the air. Gazan rockets and Israeli airstrikes had broken a fragile cease-fire. The recent conflict, lasting 22 days, left a reported 1,300 Palestinians dead, half of them civilians. Thirteen Israelis died, including three civilians. In this Little Arabia at University Drive and Sunrise Boulevard, a half-dozen Middle Eastern businesses have become the focal point for South Florida's growing population of 1,200 Palestinians and 28,000 Arabs, according to 2005-07 Census data. Demographers say hundreds more Palestinians may list themselves as Jordanian or Syrian as many lived in neighboring Arab states before emigrating here.. For them, Gaza, Palestine and Israel are not lines on a map, but real places that shape life from afar. (MORE) Update email preferences | Unsubscribe | Forward to a friend | Visit our web site Council on American-Islamic Relations 453 New Jersey Ave, S.E., Washington, D.C., 20003 Council on American-Islamic Relations Copyright ? 2008 All rights reserved. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 10 05:12:29 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:12:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Now is the time for a revolution in economic thought Message-ID: <886071.92144.qm@web27401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Now is the time for a revolution in economic thought Anatole Kaletsky: Economic View? February 9th 2009 ? ? div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color:#06c; } In my column last Thursday, I explained how academic economics has been discredited by recent events. It is now time for what historians of science call a ?paradigm shift?. If we want to flatter economists, we could compare this revolution needed to the paradigm shift in physics in 1910 after Einstein discovered relativity and Planck launched quantum mechanics. More realistically, economics today is where astronomy was in the 16th century, when Copernicus and Galileo had proved the heliocentric model, but religious orthodoxy and academic vested interests fought ruthlessly to defend the principle that the sun must revolve around the Earth. In this article I will outline some of the unorthodox approaches to economics which conventional economists have ignored and which might have helped to avert the present crisis ? in the weeks ahead I plan to give more detail of some of these ideas. Consider the following passage: ?Most economic theorists have been going down the wrong track. When economic models fail, they are seldom thrown away. Rather they are ?fixed' - amended, qualified, particularised, expanded and complicated. ?Bit by bit, from a bad seed a big but sickly tree is built with glue, nails, screws and scaffolding. Conventional economics assumes the financial system is a linear, continuous, rational machine and these false assumptions are built into the risk models used by many of the world's banks. As a result, the odds of financial ruin in a free global market economy have been grossly underestimated. By using such methods there is no limit to how bad a bank's losses can get. Its own bankruptcy is the least of the worries; it will default on its obligations to other banks - and so the losses will spread from one inter-linked financial house to another. Only forceful action by regulators to put a firewall round the sickest firms will stop the crisis spreading. But bad news tends to come in flocks and a bank that weathers one crisis may not survive a second or a third.? This uncannily precise description of the present crisis above was not written by an economist. While some economists had warned for years about global trade imbalances, escalating house prices, of excessive consumer borrowing, none of them remotely foresaw the truly unprecedented feature of the present crisis: the total breakdown of financial markets caused by the unforced blunders by investors and banks. Modern economists were inherently incapable of understanding such a problem because they assumed that investors were ?rational? and markets ?efficient?. These assumptions led inevitably to disaster once they were blown apart. The author who came so close to understanding the true causes of the present crisis was not an economist but a mathematician. Beno?t Mandelbrot, a towering figure of 20th-century science, who invented fractal geometry and pioneered the mathematical analysis of chaos and complex systems, wrote the above words six years ago in his book The Misbehaviour of Markets. Mandelbrot's ideas found fruitful applications in the study of earthquakes, weather, galaxies and biological systems from the 1960s onward, but the field that originally inspired his ideas turns out, in this very readable book, to have been finance and economics. Yet 40 years of effort by Mandelbrot to interest economists in the new mathematical methods, which appear to work far better in modelling extreme movements in financial markets than the conventional methods based on statistically ?normal? distributions, have been either ridiculed or ignored. At the other end of the academic spectrum, we find economists treating ideas from sociology, psychology or philosophy with the same derision and disdain. George Soros is no mathematician like Mandelbrot, but he has repeatedly demonstrated far better understanding of how market economies work than any professional economist by using psychological and philosophical ideas. His books have explained convincingly how false beliefs among investors can create self-reinforcing boom-bust cycles of exactly the kind afflicting the world today. But the reaction to these ideas has been the same as to Mandelbrot's: a complacent refusal among academic economists, regulators and central bankers even to think seriously about approaches that challenge the central orthodoxies of modern economics: that ?efficient? markets inhabited by ?rational? investors send price signals which, in some sense, are always right. Reality is very different, as everyone now admits: investors often misinterpret information and markets sometimes send price signals that are dangerously wrong. What Soros shows, moreover, is that such behaviour should not be regarded as irrational or an aberration. On the contrary, rational investors can find it very profitable to act on false premises - for example that credit will always be available without limit - if these false ideas become so widely accepted that they change the way the economy actually functions, at least for a time. One reason why such fruitful insights have been ignored is the convention adopted by academic economists some 30 years ago that all serious ideas must be expressed in equations, not words. By this weird standard, the intellectual giants of the subject ? Adam Smith, Ricardo, Keynes, Hayek ? would not now be recognised as serious economists at all. But even if we accept the mathematical formalism of modern economics, there is vast scope for new ideas. A control theory approach, used by serious mathematicians such as Nicos Christofides and Shahid Chaudhri, working at the Centre for Quantitative Finance at London's Imperial College, has applied advanced mathematics from aerodynamics and control engineering to analyse financial turbulence without the over-simplified assumptions, such as continuous liquidity, which have caused the recent disasters in risk management and regulation. But the challenge that existing economic orthodoxy may find most disconcerting is Imperfect Knowledge Economics (IKE), the name of a path-breaking recent book by Roman Frydman and Michael Goldberg, two American economists. Building on ideas of Edmund Phelps, one of the few Nobel Laureate economists who rejected the consensus view on rational expectations, IKE uses similar tools to conventional economics to generate radically different results. It insists that the future is inherently unknowable and therefore that there is always a multitude of plausible models of the way the economy works. With this obvious, but critically important, change in assumptions, IKE demolishes most of the conclusions of rational expectations. More importantly, it shows that reasonable assumptions about economic uncertainty can produce financial models that give less spurious accuracy than the rational expectations models but are statistically far closer to what happens in the real world. These are just a few examples of the creative thinking that has started again in economics after 20 years of stagnation. But the academic establishment, discredited though it is by the present crisis, will fight hard against new ideas. The outcome of this battle does not just matter to academic economists. Without a better understanding of economics, financial crises will keep recurring and faith in capitalism and free markets will surely erode. Changes in regulation are not sufficient after this financial crisis ? it is time for a revolution in economic thought. Have your say Believe Einstein, everything is relative, so putting my foot into a shoe is the same thing as putting a shoe on my foot. The earth does go round the sun, but it takes a year. The sun also goes round me, and it takes a day. Mathematicians term it something like choosing the best axes for problem. Michael Moore, Stockport, England -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 10 05:15:31 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:15:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Bank Workers Stage Protest Message-ID: <176042.81400.qm@web27404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Bank workers stage bonuses protest 1 hour 34 mins ago Print Story Bank workers have staged a protest outside Westminster, calling on finance bosses to apologise for the "crisis" in the industry and pressing the case for bonuses to be paid to staff. Skip related content Related photos / videos Unite organised a bank workers protest outside Westminster Related content Video: Bank boss admits surpirse at 'scale' of the ... Deflation alarm as prices weaken further in China Ex-bosses apologise for banking crisis Related Hot Topic: Financial Crisis Have your say: Financial Crisis Workers from banks including HBOS and Lloyds travelled to London ahead of the Select Committee grilling of bank executives. The workers held up banners which read: "Remember us? You've put our jobs at risk." Rhianne Parsons, 31, who works for Lloyds TSB in Newport, South Wales, said most bank workers only received a few hundred pounds a year in bonuses which they relied on to top up their salary. "We don't get the huge bonuses earned by the chief executives who are responsible for the current crisis in banking. "They are the ones who have caused the problems yet they are still reaping the benefits of huge pay. We have to work really hard for our bonus but the bosses seem to get theirs whatever happens." Miss Parsons, whose partner lost his job at Lloyds TSB as part of cost-cutting, said the average bank worker was only paid between ?11,000 and ?12,000 a year and would be lucky to get a bonus of a few hundred pounds. Glenn Miller, who works for HBOS in Edinburgh, said: "Our message today is that these executives should apologise to bank workers. I hope today's committee hearing is the start of a process to clear up this mess and get rid of some of the bad practices in the industry." Mr Miller said workers had to achieve targets before they were paid their bonus, unlike executives. Bernadette Fisher, secretary of the Lloyds Group of the Unite union, which organised the protest, said: "There is a false impression that all bank workers earn huge amounts of money and get massive bonuses but that it just not correct." Email Story Share Story Delicious Digg Facebook Stumbleupon Reddit Newsvine Print Story Subscribe to RSS Latest news 26 mins ago Sarkozy apologises for VAT comments 28 mins ago Chinese PM shoe protester pleads not guilty The student protester accused of throwing a shoe at Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao in Cambridge last week pleaded not guilty to a? More 35 mins ago Todd's affairs 'damaged police' 48 mins ago Play video Sir Tom McKillop: Buying ABN Amro was 'an? 51 mins ago Heavy snowfall hit shopper numbers Britain's heaviest snowfall for 20 years hit retailers hard last week, and a pick-up in business in January was unlikely to? More 1 hour 14 mins ago Senior bankers sorry for crisis 1 hour 16 mins ago Missing Schoolgirl: Man Arrested 1 hour 33 mins ago Murder Hunt For Facebook Fugitive 1 hour 34 mins ago Affairs did not affect police job 1 hour 34 mins ago Play video Bank bosses apologise 2 hours 23 mins ago Play video Jacqui Smith defends herself over expense? 4 hours 48 mins ago Play video Britain braces itself for more wintry weather <> ADVERTISEMENT if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['Qv80AtmSuyM-']='&U=13oo5kia2%2fN%3dQv80AtmSuyM-%2fC%3d200111402.201802137.203042508.200493719%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d200932522%2fV%3d1'; Subscribe to RSSMost Popular in: UK 1 London eatery lets customer decide bill LONDON (AFP) - A London restaurant has come up with a novel idea to drum up custom in the economic downturn: letting customers decide how much they want to pay for their meal. ?More 2 Arrest Over Snowboard Tow Stunt 3 Steam power rolls into London 4 Britain braced for more Arctic weather 5 Cocoa-Covered Immigrants Found More popular stories Latest blog entries Talking Politics: Another chance to stop the Lisbon treaty? 7 comments Around The World: Brown's distress signal puts vexillologists in a flap Talking Politics: Bonuses and responsibility Talking Politics: A bonus point MORE ON YAHOO! NEWS Home UK World Politics Business Sport Technology Science Health Entertainment -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 10 05:43:09 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:43:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Combating the Credit Crunch.......... Message-ID: <709635.57131.qm@web27408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear All, ? ???????? May be of interest. ? Combating the Credit Crunch/ 10th Feb 2009. ? ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/longview ? R.SEarle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 12:45:48 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:45:48 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Solutions Message-ID: <007201c98bb8$2f717da0$8e5478e0$@net> From: The Orion Project [mailto:info at theorionproject.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:25 AM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Solutions The Orion Project Non-Profit Solutions The proposed stimulus bill before the United States Congress includes $54 billion to be allocated for clean energy and energy efficiency measures. Solar and wind-powered technologies are not the most advanced nor cost-effective means of power available. Imagine if we could install really new technologies to fix the problems we face, instead of the current solutions. This is where The Orion Project comes into play . With inventors currently collaborating on various prototype devices which will remove our dependency on fossil fuels for energy, we can finally see the solutions we need. The grassroots movement launched by The Orion Project is funding these projects--yet we still need your support! Through your donations and networking , you can help us decrease the timeline to success. You can Play a Part You can be an agent for change by helping us network to any sources which can help educate the public about the possibilities for life-changing energy solutions. Host a fundraiser! There is information available on the website--videos , scientific articles --a wealth of information to share with others! Let your network know what is possible! Good News! Even as our work progresses on identified devices, we are continually contacted by inventors with promising devices. We continue to expand our network and will do all we can to speed the arrival of the day when clean, efficient, non-polluting, inexpensive energy is available for all. Stay tuned for updates in upcoming newsletters! Donate to Our Research Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to maryrose333 at att.net by info at theorionproject.org. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by The Orion Project | PO Box 4347 | Charlottesville | VA | 22905 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From releyes at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 10:30:50 2009 From: releyes at gmail.com (Dr. Rima Laibow) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:30:50 -0500 Subject: [GJM] FW: VERY GOOD INFO In-Reply-To: <005701c983fc$cacbf050$6063d0f0$@net> References: <005701c983fc$cacbf050$6063d0f0$@net> Message-ID: <503a10ac0902010930je938fe6v85b3f93f6735a13@mail.gmail.com> This information has been circulating for some time. I was curious about the source of the markup information so I contacted the person at the end of the document (who may or may not be the same person whose information is appended here - I do not recall the name of the woman to whom I spoke). I was told that she was not the author of this information, nor its source, that her job responsibilities had nothing to do with this area of concern and she did not know how or why her name and information was associated with the information. Since she was not involved in this area, she could not vouch for the authenticity or challenge the information - she was neutral. I know that the pharmaceutical industry, from the top to the consumer interface, is wildly productive financially, to the detriment of virtually every aspect of society, world wide. What I do not know is if this information is that, or disinformation. I would welcome someone doing independent research to validate, or confound, this data and then sharing it with the list. Yours in health and freedom, Dr. Rima Rima E. Laibow, MD Medical Director Natural Solutions Foundation www.HealthFreedomUSA.org On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:36 PM, mary rose wrote: > > > > > *From:* Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:19 PM > *Subject:* VERY GOOD INFO > > > > > > > > > > > *Costco--Read this whole article-especially the end - kudos for Costco! > * > > WAITING > > > *COSTCO! read this... > > Let's hear it for Costco!! (This is just mind-boggling!) Make sure* *you > read all the way past the list of the drugs. The woman that signed below is > a Budget Analyst out of Federal Washington, DC offices. > > > Did you ever wonder how much it costs a drug company for the active > ingredient in prescription medications? Some people think it must cost a > lot, since many drugs sell for more than $2.00 per tablet. We did a search > of offshore chemical synthesizers that supply the active ingredients found > in drugs approved by the FDA. As we have revealed in past issues of Life > Extension, a significant percentage of drugs sold in the United States contain > active ingredients made in other countries. In our independent > investigation of how much profit drug companies really make, we obtained > the actual price of active ingredients used in some of the most popular > drugs sold in America > > > The data below speaks for itself. > > > Celebrex: 100 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $130.27 > Cost of general active ingredients: $ 0.60 > Percent markup: 21,712% > * > > * > > Claritin: 1 0 mg > Consumer Price (100 tablets): $215.17 > Cost of general active ingredients: $0.71 > Percent markup: 30,306% > * > > * > > Keflex: 250 mg > Consumer Price (100 tablets): $157.39 > Cost of general active ingredients: $1.88 > Percent markup: 8,372% > * > > * > > Lipitor: 20 mg > Consumer Price (100 tab lets): $272.37 > Cost of general active ingredients: $5.80 > Percent markup: 4,696% > * > > * > Norvasc: 10 mg Cost of general active ingredients: $0.14 > Percent markup: 134,493% > * > > * > > Paxil: 20 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $220.27 > Cost of general active ingredients: $7.60 > Percent markup: 2,898% > * > > * > Prevacid: 30 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $44.77 > Cost of general active ingredients: $1.01 > Percent markup: 34,136% > * > > * > > Prilosec: 20 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $360.97 > Cost of general active ingredients $0.52 > Percent markup: 69,417% > * > > * > Prozac: 20 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $247.47 > Cost of general active ingredients: $0.11 > Percent markup: 224,973% > * > > * > Tenormin: 50 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $104.47 > Cost of general active ingredients: $0.13 > Percent markup: 80,362% > * > > * > > Vasotec: 10 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $102.37 > Cost of general active ingredients: $0.20 > Percent markup: 51,185% > * > > * > > Xanax: 1 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets) : $136.79 > Cost of general active ingredients: $0.024 > Percent markup: 569,958% > * > > * > > Zestril: 20 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets) $89.89 > Cost of general active ingredients $3.20 > Percent markup: 2,809 > * > > * > > Zithromax: 600 mg > Consumer price (100 tablets): $1,482.19 > Cost of general active ingredients: $18.78 > Percent markup: 7,892% > * > > * > > Zocor: /B 40 mg > Co nsumer price (100 tablets): $350.27 > Cost of general active ingredients: $8.63 > Percent markup: 4,059% > * > > * > > Zoloft: 50 mg > Consumer price: $206.87 > Cost of general active ingredients: $1.75 > Percent markup: 11,821% > * > > * > > Since the cost of prescription drugs is so outrageous, I thought everyone > should know about this. Please read the following and pass it on. It pays > to shop around. This helps to solve the mystery as to why they can afford > to put a Walgreen's on every corner. On Monday night, Steve Wilson, an > investigative reporter for Channel 7 News in Detroit , did a story on > generic drug price gouging by pharmacies. He found in his investigation, > that some of these generic drugs were marked up as much as 3,000% or more. > Yes, that's not a typo.....three thousand percent! So often, we blame the > drug companies for the high cost of drugs, and usually rightfully so. But > in this case, the fault clearly lies with the pharmacies themselves. For > example, if you had to buy a prescription drug, and bought the name brand, > you might pay $100 for 100 pills. The pharmacist might tell you that if you > get the generic equivalent, they would only cost $80, making you think you > are 'saving' $20. What the pharmacist is not telling you is that those 100 > generic pills may have only cost him $10! > > > At the end of the report, one of the anchors asked Mr. Wilson whether or > not there were any pharmacies that did not adhere to this practice, and he > said that Costco consistently charged little over their cost for the > generic drugs. > * > > * > I went to the Costco site , where you can look up any drug, and get its > online price. It says that the in-store prices are consistent with the > online prices. I was appalled. Just to give you one example from my own > experience, I had to use the drug, Compazine, which helps prevent nausea in > chemo patients. > * > VIAGRA FREE* > > I used the generic equivalent, which cost $54.99 for 60 pills at CVS. I > checked the price at Costco, and I could have bought 100 pills for $19.89. > For 145 of my pain pills, I paid $72.57. I could have got 150 at Costco > for $28.08. > > > I would like to mention, that although Costco is a 'membership' type > store, you do NOT have to be a member to buy prescriptions there, as it is > a federally regulated substance. You just tell them at the door that you > wish to use the pharmacy, and they will let you in. (this is true) > > > I went there this past Thursday and asked them. I am asking each of you > to please help me by copying this letter, and passing it into your own > e-mail, and send it to everyone you know with an e-mail address. > > ** > Sharon L. Davis > Budget Analyst > US Department of Commerce > Room 6839 > Office Ph: 202-482-4458 > Office Fax: 202-482-5480 > E-mail Address: sdavis at doc.gov > * > > > > *This can be verified by clicking on the following link: > > ** > http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/generic.asp > * > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! > * > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Know Your Numbers*: Get tips and toolsto help you improve your credit score. > > > > m; > CMasneri@ > _slicer at yahoo.com; > dannykaul at live.com; > ejkelsey at hotmail.com; > fishpimp at netscape.com; > jamielbue at msn.com; > g-jtkid at hotmail.com; > silver_sweetie101 at hotmail.com; > jmatlock at q.com; > kparker at bankofastoria.com; > LCourtwright at bankofastoria.com; > lyledd at hotmail.com; > renahr1 at att.net; > shelb_e67 at yahoo.com; > harveysue at netzero.net > Subject: This will piss you off!!! > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:02:03 -0800 > > > > [image: FREE Animations for your email - by IncrediMail! Click Here!] > ------------------------------ > > Windows Live? Hotmail(R):?more than just e-mail. Check it out. > > > ------------------------------ > > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See how. > ------------------------------ > > Windows Live? Hotmail(R)?more than just e-mail. See how it works. > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1925 - Release Date: 1/30/2009 > 7:37 AM > ------------------------------ > > Windows Live? Hotmail(R):?more than just e-mail. Check it out. > > > > > -- > -- > RejenX... > (resveratrol patent pending blend) > www.rejenx.com/SelectYourMembership.aspx > ID 4282 > - > Holy Tea Cleanse > www.prosperitea.com > Plus CC 3 at the > Whole Wellness Club > (click upper right corner) > - > LIBERTY in Our Lifetime! > www.PlanetaryRepublic.com > www.CampaignForLiberty.com > - > Nancy and Earle...Planetnews > 949-200-7335 land > 800-889-7372 toll-free > > _______________________________________________ > Discussion mailing list > Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net > > http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 5843 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 25498 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7679 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 10183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9078 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 21799 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2020 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13732 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7621 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13534 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9002 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 26500 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 6051 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 4951 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15178 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 8315 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 8392 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 41807 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 5110 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2327 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2564 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ceasig at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 05:03:00 2009 From: ceasig at gmail.com (Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:33:00 +0530 Subject: [GJM] Fwd: What recovery means for you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31f677a30902030403t53a36516x5be52a493e98e7b3@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: President Barack Obama Date: Feb 2, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: What recovery means for you To: mukhtar alam mukhtar -- The economic crisis is growing more serious every day, and the time for action has come. Last week, the House of Representatives passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which will jumpstart our economy and put more than 3 million people back to work. I hope to sign the recovery plan into law in the next few weeks. But I need your help to spread the word and build support. It's not enough for this bill to simply pass Congress. Americans need to know how it will affect their lives -- they need to know that help is on the way and that this administration is investing in economic growth and stability. Governor Tim Kaine has agreed to record a video outlining the recovery plan and answering questions about what it means for your community. You can submit your questions online and then invite your friends, family, and neighbors to watch the video with you at an Economic Recovery House Meeting. *Join thousands of people across the country by hosting or attending an Economic Recovery House Meeting this weekend.* The stakes are too high to allow partisan politics to get in the way. That's why I've consulted with Republicans as well as Democrats to put together a plan that will address the crisis we face. I've also taken steps to ensure an unprecedented level of transparency and accountability. Once it's passed, you will be able to see how every penny in this plan is being spent. You can help restore confidence in our economy by making sure your friends, family, and neighbors understand how the recovery plan will impact your community. Sign up to host or attend an Economic Recovery House Meeting and submit your question for the video now: *http://my.barackobama.com/recovery* Our ability to come together as a nation in difficult times has never been more important. I know I can rely on your spirit and resolve as we lead our country to recovery. Thank you, President Barack Obama P.S. -- If you can't host or attend an Economic Recovery House Meeting, you can still submit your questions for Governor Kaine and then share the video with your friends and family this weekend. Learn more here: *http://my.barackobama.com/recovery* Paid for by Organizing for America, a project of the Democratic National Committee -- 430 South Capitol Street SE, Washington, D.C. 20003. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. This email was sent to: ceasig at gmail.com To unsubscribe, go to: http://my.barackobama.com/unsubscribe -- Endeavouring for ecological safety ,social inclusion and distributive justice for the renewable resource based livelihoods and habitats, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governace (CEASIG) , an initiative of Labour League Foundation and Sufi Trust , Delhi aims for socially inclusive and ecologically safe future for all through building capacities in ecological audit, ecologically safe networking ,advocacy, interfaith dailogue & other related domains for multiplying personal, community , governmental and corporate actions for ecologically safe education, ecolgical audit and socially inclusive governance best practices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 03:03:12 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:03:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] This Bailout is Great! An Investments Point of View from the Motley Fool Message-ID: <641423.30914.qm@web27405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> This Bailout Is Great! By Richard Gibbons January 30, 2009 | Comments (239) Recs 471 A lot of people have been complaining about the bailouts. This is understandable. The basis of capitalism is that the strong survive, while the weak collapse. It's galling to see people rewarded for failure. The problem is that, as a country, we can't make decisions based simply on anger or capitalistic dogma. We have a responsibility to do whatever will help ensure this country's future prosperity. And right now, that means bailing out the banks, increasing regulation, and stimulating the economy. ? ? Capitalism's blind spot Capitalism works well, generally allocating resources efficiently. It's the reason why there's usually food on the supermarket shelves, while there often wasn't in the U.S.S.R. But capitalism has its blind spots, too. In a capitalist system, it's rational for bank executives to take huge risks in order to pad bonuses based on short-term metrics. Bank executives don't care about systemic risks -- often they barely care about their own shareholders. So, regulation is necessary to reduce systemic risk. Unfortunately, our regulators disliked regulation, and last year, the resulting crisis drove the banking system to the brink of collapse. ? House of cards And I really mean collapse. Of the big five investment banks, only Morgan Stanley (NYSE: MS) and Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS) are still standing, with Lehman, Bear Stearns, and Merrill Lynch all either bankrupt or sold. Same with the biggest retail banks. Citigroup (NYSE: C) fell from over $50 per share to under $5 per share despite huge cash infusions, and Bank of America (NYSE: BAC) looks to be getting there. Wachovia, the fourth-biggest bank, was acquired. Washington Mutual, the sixth-biggest, became the biggest failure in U.S. banking history. Without government assistance, it seems likely that most of the top-tier banks would have collapsed. As if that weren't enough, the Bank Insurance Fund (BIF) -- which provides deposit insurance -- has less than $100 billion, enough to cover only 1.01% of outstanding deposits. Citigroup alone has over $600 billion in deposits. By itself, Washington Mutual would have drained the BIF if the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. hadn't used sleight of hand to transfer WaMu's operations to JPMorgan (NYSE: JPM). With widespread bank failures, deposit insurance would falter, and the taxpayers would be footing the bill regardless. That's why we see all these acquisitions -- because the banking system can't handle the failures. It's cheaper for the country to just save the banks. ? ? The domino effect If we do let the banks go under, there will be huge problems, because our whole economic system runs on credit. How many small companies use lines of credits to handle seasonality in their businesses? How many large companies rely on sales of commercial paper? If that money is unavailable, many completely viable businesses will go under because of liquidity issues. Any company that uses debt is vulnerable. Procter & Gamble (NYSE: PG) is practically invincible in any normal situation. But it has $35 billion in net debt. What happens when its lenders ask for some of that money back, and it has to borrow at 15% to get the cash? Wal-Mart (NYSE: WMT) has $41 billion in net debt. When nobody wants to lend, how do you borrow $41 billion? What happens when the farmers, truckers, and other businesses making up the backbone of our infrastructure, fail? Will there still be food on the supermarket shelves? I don't know, but I'm not eager to find out. ? ? A New Deal In fact, the history of the Great Depression shows what happens when you start killing the banking system. Between 1929 and 1933, about one in five banks went under. As you'd expect, these bank failures took a massive toll on the economy, with real GDP falling by 29% and unemployment hitting 25%. At that point, President Franklin Roosevelt stepped in with a plan called the "New Deal." He shut down the banks and allowed only sound banks to reopen. He passed the Emergency Banking Act, which made federal loans available to banks. Then, he enacted the Glass-Steagall Act, establishing deposit insurance and preventing depository banks from being investment banks, reducing the risk of banks blowing up because of bad investments. (Unfortunately, Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999, which is one reason why banks were able to trade asset-backed securities (ABS) and blow up the system nine years later.) After these actions restored confidence in the banking system, Roosevelt focused on employment through numerous public works projects and agricultural programs. The results of this government intervention were impressive. GDP skyrocketed from 1933 to 1937, posting real growth of 9.4% annually -- a huge rate for a developed country. Unemployment fell to 14.3%. ? ? Reasons for optimism Warren Buffett knows this history, and that's probably why he said that the bank bailout was "absolutely necessary to avoid going over the precipice." Now he's confident that America will bounce back. The government's actions have helped to restore confidence in the banking system -- a TED spread down from 5 to 1 indicates that banks are more willing to lend to each other now than any time since September. Now, President Obama, like Roosevelt, is working on programs to help Americans get back to work. ? ? The Foolish bottom line To me, it seems likely that these government interventions will pave the road to recovery. The world's richest man seems to agree, and says that if stocks continue to trade at bargain prices, he'll put his entire personal portfolio into equities. That's why I think now is the time to find undervalued stocks, invest, and grow rich. Our Motley Fool Inside Value team is excited about this opportunity. After all, stocks are the cheapest they've been in our lifetimes, and we're discovering some shocking bargains. If you're looking for ideas, you can read about our favorite picks with a free trial to Inside Value. Fool contributor Richard Gibbons is easily as cheap as someone who grew up during the Great Depression. JPMorgan is an Income Investor recommendation. Wal-Mart is a Motley Fool Inside Value pick. The Motley Fool owns shares of Procter & Gamble. The Fool's disclosure policy is sticking with the old deal. Read/Post Comments (239) | Recommend This Article (471) Email Print Feedback Digg Delicious RSS Obama's Favorite Industry Obama's "Repower America" initiative will pour billions into new energy projects -- creating an estimated 5 million NEW U.S. jobs! Domestic oil and natural gas production is projected to surge... handing profits hand over fist to a leading manufacturer of oil and natural gas pipelines and drilling equipment. Find out this company's name and why it's The Motley Fool's Top Pick for 2009 in a new FREE report called "The Only Energy Stock You'll Ever Need!" Click here for instant access to this FREE report! Comments from our Foolish Readers Help us keep this a respectfully Foolish area! This is a place for our readers to discuss, debate, and learn more about the Foolish investing topic you read about above. Help us keep it clean and safe. If you believe a comment is abusive or otherwise violates our Fool's Rules, please report it via the Report this Comment icon found on every comment. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 3:11 PM, andrew888 wrote: I question the wisdom of giving massive handouts to banks and other organizations, primarily because I do not trust them to use it wisely. Citibank's intention to spend USD50m on a jet is a case-in-point. I suggest that it would be wiser to give trillions to US citizens (as they are the ones saddled with the US govt debt in the first place) on the basis that their first use of the cash is to pay off their debt (e.g. mortgages). For many, this would make the difference between keeping or losing their homes. Then hopefully, they would have a reality adjustment about excessive retail and home purchase spending. The people would have debt reduction, the banks would get money and (just about everyone would win). With the present scenario, there is a massive reallocation of capital from the people to large, incompetent companies. Not wise. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 4:45 PM, ByrneShill wrote: You forgot something in the disclosure: BAC and WM are former Income Investor recommendation. BAC was recommended around 45 and WM around 50. Both are penny stocks now. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:29 PM, intpj wrote: What a stupidity. Capitalism does not have a "blind spot" stupid people do. They should go extinct or we all will go extinct. Bailing the culprits, yeah that is what will save the country .. not, it will only compound the problem. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:32 PM, kent1941 wrote: Sorry, you left out the part about FDR trying to take over the utility industry, his attacks on capitalists, raising income taxes, and other sundry acts all of which stifled the "animal spirits" that Keynes spoke about. The private sector was vilified and kept out. When the stimulous was removed following the 1936 elections the result was a second swoon into depression that didn't end until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. A recent study form UCLA cocludes that New Deal policy prolonged the Depression by five years. That's overly generous. In 1937 Secretary of the Treausury Henry Morganthau lamented that all the spending and debt had produced nothing-it was all in vain. Where is the plan to transition back to a private sector economy? You know the one that actually provides goods and services that produce wealth? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:37 PM, blm098 wrote: If we stop all big purchases what happens to the jobs those purchases created? The airplane builders need work as do lots of other people who support the industry. Seems to me that we need to make changes in how we spend but if we do not spend nothing will get better. Cash held in banks is not helping anyone. The cash needs to be circulating to make things happen.. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:38 PM, godsright wrote: In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802: 'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.' Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:40 PM, casomega wrote: I feel like a fool for reading this stupid article. Talk about rose colored glasses! BTW it was the former dude's idea to bail out the banks. The present dude seems to want to bail out unions and sex educators. Yeah; that will work. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:42 PM, jmgras wrote: Sen Dick Durbin D-Ill had a bill that was part of the bailout that would have given bankruptcy judges the power to lower mortgage balances so home owners could keep their homes. This would have made the banks take the loss for bailing out the homes in foreclosure instead of the taxpayer. After all the banks were a major part of the mortgage crisis. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:43 PM, wf1 wrote: Maybe if the big banks went under then the banks that did not make as many stupid mistakes that took over their assets and other future banks would figure out some way to prevent the short term thinking executives from destroying banks. Bailing them out means that the companies learn nothing except to run to Washington (or more correctly fly to Washington) for a handout. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:44 PM, wmtchamp wrote: Wal-Mart is sitting on $31 Billion in the bank. Don't think they are too concerned about the debt. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:46 PM, sbossert wrote: You are correct that too many bank executives have taken great risk without regard for long-term consequences. They got their big paychecks in the short term. Not everyone was complicit in the greed. It seems Wells Fargo had limited exposure to the mortgage meltdown. How is Wells Fargo rewarded? By having their incompetent and crooked competitors bailed out. This latest "bailout" is just selling out the future of taxpaying Americans so government can increase its stronghold on us all. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:46 PM, jmgras wrote: Oh in addition to my note above the mortgage and banking industry is spent 83 million lobbying congress on multiple issues in 2008. The taxpayer is a being taken for a ride by the banking industry. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:49 PM, laughingstk wrote: I think you guys really are Fools! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:53 PM, JiveDadson wrote: The government cannot put one dollar into the economy that it does not first take out of the economy. Stealing from productive businesses and thrifty people to prop up unproductive, failed businesses is not only futile, it is morally reprehensible. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:55 PM, habuchas100 wrote: "Stimulate the economy" is not what should be the first priority! It should be "Stabilize then economy". The stabilizing may result in some banks going under but so be it. I say "stabilize then stimulate". Give the economy a little time to 'right' itself. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, jmgras wrote: According to an Associated press article Sen Dick Durbin's D-Ill bill that was part of the bailout that would have given bankruptcy judges the power to lower mortgage balances so home owners could keep their homes was removed at the request of President Obama, he didn't want to screw up the bailout bill. So the Banks win again for now. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, fedup3 wrote: Re: "If we do let the banks go under, there will be huge problems, because our whole economic system runs on credit." This is at the root of our problem. Credit is more honestly called "debt" which is the prime tool of enslavement of the elite. So much for the credibility of the Motley Fools. They are off my list of honest sites. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:05 PM, TycoUSAFA88 wrote: I disagree with your statement, "the bailout is great". In fact most of this article is HOGWASH! Had you performed your research, you would learn that 75-85% of the bailout moneys this congress and government are funding IS PORK spending, liberal social engineering programs, wasteful debt that funds ART projects, abortion clinics, hospice programs and does not put the middle class back to work, the ones currently out of jobs that perform most of the work that is valueably needed by this country and the rest of the world. I don't mean to be rude, but Warren Buffet is a thief as well. You all, at Motley Fool, place too much regards on that bottom feeder Buffet. Do you understand, Warren Thief Buffet was an insurance salesman, selling insurance to family businesses. When the owner died and did not have a planned LOOP HOLE (Lawyer generated) trust or estate transfer, the siblings were left holding the tax liability (often millions of dollars to the Federal Government), thus Warren swooped in offerring dimes on the dollars to take over the family source of income. Sure, the siblings obtained a few million in many cases, but certainly not worth the value of the company had it been sold on the open market, when a tax man was knocking looking for asset transfer taxes. Perhaps, this congress should be taxing movie stars, professional sport athletes, luxury outlets / goods that do not contibute to the working class/middle class goals or standard of living or is trickle down economics good?. Either way these positions in society do not contribute to the values of America, or the Maslow needs. Your article is the first one I've read that is complete and total HOGWASH. Rethink this one Motley FOOLS! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:10 PM, halftide wrote: Some one is drinking the cool-aid. The facts and what is in the actual bill are only loosely related to the propaganda in the article. Over the past 25 or more years there has been a Paradigm Shift in how economic decisions are made. Paradigm Shifts are caused by ?Agents of Change? ever since the British in WWII started intentionally introducing propaganda political science has moved increasingly toward decision making models that separate themselves from decisions made on the basis of the disciplines of science and economics. There have become two corrects, politically correct and rigorously correct. When a decision is chosen which is politically correct and at the same time not supportable by knowledge in the relevant discipline, it is a fantasy world decision. Never the less there are real world consequences for fantasy world decisions. We are living the consequences of fantasy world decisions. It is an irresponsible diversion to attack the consequences of the decisions rather than work our way back to the actual causes?so we must learn our lesson and recognize the error in order to not repeat it. It is absolutely impossible to get a good long term result from government consumption. Governments consume and businesses produce. There is a huge economic negative multiplier when fundamental resources are squandered. We are going to get so kicked in the !$%%%%!! by this foolishness that down is going to look like up. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:14 PM, CalifCondor wrote: Mr. Gibbons are really serious? May we suggest that you re-read post-depression history. And by the way lest we forget as the illustrious political Dem's now ignore, ...we do not have a gold standard but a printing press economy that continues to riddle our children with debt. Thomas Jefferson was right "...Banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies...' and Mao-TseTung's disciples have figured this out already... Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:15 PM, cglaskowski wrote: What an absurd article!! To reward incompetence is ludicrous. We are ransoming our children's futures by throwing money into these institutions which are either extravagantly spending it or hoarding the funds and not helping the economy. If the government is to borrow or bailout anyone, it should be providing the money directly to the people who are in debt and at risk of losing their homes. This can be done by stimulating jobs by tax cuts for corporations and providing low interest funds directly to the people in order to pay off their high interest debts to these usurious banking institutions. Lets get the thieving unscrupulous middleman banks out of the picture and get the money directly to the people. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:15 PM, demarvin wrote: One man's opinion.There are only two logical ways to end this circus of bank bailouts with taxpayer money The first is BANKRUPTCY they are now bankrupt,via assets vs liabilities.Private capital will now collect the ashes and new viable banks will arise and will have the courage to tell Barney Frank to go to hell before he extorts them to issue loans to persons that have zero credit or resources. The second is complete NATIONALIZATION OF ALL OF THE BANKS! Why not? Congress will love this,then anyone with a pulse will qualify for a loan as long as they vote for the party in power. The Congress is now buying votes with selective bailouts and the only people who are going to be screwed are those with IRAs,401s and assets that Congress will appropriate via every form of tax they can create. The people voted for "change" hold on to your wallet it is on it's way. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:17 PM, wolfecraig wrote: Wow, Richard. In your zeal to support our new president, you forgot some of the basics of Capitalism. Oh, by the way, the bank ordered the jet a few years ago, but that not withstanding, the stock holders should make the decision if their money isn't being spent appropriately. I do think that stockholders need to make their executives more accountable for what they spend, but I sure don't want to turn that responsibility over to the government. Our Congress has proven that they are not up to the task. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:19 PM, nin4086 wrote: This article is too optimistic. Clearly the author did not do any research. I found much better information from the comments than the article. The author paints a doomsday scenario about "what if there is no bailout". A better and much more likely outcome would be: Without a bailout, the banks in trouble have no choice but to fire their bad executives and replace them with good ones. Private investors will have the opportunity to buy a big chunk of the bank and bring in capable staff. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:19 PM, viconquest wrote: JiveDadson, I hope you aren't implying that we should've let the banks fail --- The only other way to prevent Armageddon would be if healthy banks/companies bought the bad banks. I'm pretty sure that no bank would want to purchase an insolvent Citi or BAC right about now for any price. Otherwise, the windfall would be catastrophic. The financial web is opaque, intertwined and leveraged up the gonads. This means that when a few fail, even more go down because the risk is hidden, decentralized, and magnified. Who will pay for all those unraveling CDS and complex derivative contracts, on top of normal asset loss in a bankruptcy? The answer is, unless you want to rip up binding legal contracts and set a horrible precedent, NO ONE CAN PAY FOR THEM. People need to realize that bailing out these horrible institutions is a digusting but necessary evil. The normal laws of nature do not apply when we're talking about trillions of dollars, hence the phrase "too big to fail". Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:21 PM, Baggerdude wrote: This is a stupid article. Did you look at history as a reference before you wrote it? FDR was a socialist who caused the rise of welfare, higher taxation, social security, unions and such. The WPA/CCC etc only created "work" not "jobs". When those programs were withdrawn, the 2nd round of the Depression hit until WWII put everyone back to work. Obama is a mini-FDR, cut from the same/same clothe ... this newer deal, TARP2 and BARF (interesting acronym), will produce nothing. I see no jobs being saved or created with the new Bail Out. Just a trillion or 2 being printed and sprinkled around the country on pet programs Congress wants. Like my Christmas list. Crikey ! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:53 PM, 1stGradeStudent wrote: Maybe it's time to rethink our economic model. It's been broken for a long time. The solution is actually simple: the government needs to give back the money it took from the people in the first place and quit spending money it doesn't have. These bailouts are a joke. What the Republicans couldn't do in 8 years, the Democrats are going to finish in 8 weeks. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:55 PM, samsacct wrote: The present crisis was a result of actions taken over along period of time.It spanned from cater Thru Clinton pushed by wreckless legislators Barney Frank & Chris Dodd. They ignored the warningsigns put fortgh arround 2004-2005.They promoted bank lendig to those =who had on or even very shakey creit on house ownership.This provided the climate for further abuses by normally prudent banks.Capitalism didn.t fail the system pushed upon it failed. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:00 PM, RaulChapin wrote: Mr. Gibbons, Capitalism without respect for justice (which you would hope is the basis for the law) is not just blind it is non existent. The first and foremost condition for capitalism to work is the respect for the law, and that law should be just and predicatable. The CEO's of banks would NOT be reasonable to take huge risks to pad their bonuses if the law was respected Why do I say this? Because the CEO has a Duty of Care to the Corporation it serves. If it could be proved that the CEO made the company take a risk that was unreasonably high and that he benefited from it, that CEO would be responsible for damages to the company. In the case of the bank clowns that would mean that they would be on the hook for BILLIONS of dollars. Sure they could go bankrupt, but they would have to give up their every possesion, not the way you want to end your career. That is how capitalism would work...no golden parachute, no cozy life. You screw the life of millions (or even billions) of people... you retire in the poor house... and hopefully you go to jail. Until these irresponsible immoral acts have dire consequences... they will continue do be done, bailout or no bailout. That is capitalism, what we have now is not even a shadow of it. And by the way, the whole crazy idea that the world would come to an end if the irresponsible banks are allowed to fail or if the automakers are allowed to fail, is nothing but using the fear of unreasonable people to take their money and their kids money away, and give it to the same people who created this mess in the first place. Send the people responsible for this mess to jail (for an insanely long time) and see if the next CEO will take an unreasonable risk!!! The USA runs on credit sure I will give you that. The only available credit is the unreasonably cheap one provided by the "to fail" banks... Fat chance! Good companies would survive even with crazy credit terms. The company I currently work for got its line of credit slashed by 33%, one of the things we have done is to reduce our accoutns receivable by accepting credit card payments for very large ammounts as long as our clients pay within 30 days of being invoiced instead of the 60 they were forcing on us. At a 2.5% average cost for accepting credit cards, this means an anualized 30% interest rate (Compare to the 8.25% charged by the bank) sure it is not pretty, but it will allow us to continue operating AND turn a profit. When the lending crisis stops, we will go back to using a credit line instead (By puting a 2% fee on credit card payments and thus making clients revert to paying late but in cash) who knows, we might even be able to cover that 30% with retained earnings after 3 to 5 years... this company will survive, many around us will fail, in the end that is how it should be. BTW my granmother owns a store and a chocolate factory, she has NEVER used a line of credit, she did get a loan to start the business but that was long long ago. She bought her machinery by using her home as collateral, and paid up every cent within 5 years not taking a penny of profit till she was paid up. To the day she runs two successfull companies. Small but reliable (She is 87 and the chocolate factory was inherited with no machinery, so at 30 she bought the machinery needed to update the factory and has been running it for 57 years... tell her about credit!!... one day soon my dad will take over... but till then the old lady runs the show and she runs it well) Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:02 PM, onthemarsh wrote: Give Obama some time.. This won't be easy and he has said as much.. Every comment so far reeks with political favoritism.. We've got big problems and the "arm chair" quibbling about the management plan will only throw wrenches into the gears.. Grow up and give this thing a chance. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:02 PM, samsacct wrote: Any more innane articles as this and I question you investment accumen Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:03 PM, harrymax wrote: I am glad some capitalists are seeing the light. This country is off the cliff from the greed of those on Wall Street and the banks. I don't know what Wall Street does for this country and I know the banks are only lining their own pockets. This country needs to get up and running again, and the investment business models are out of touch. I am outraged at the investment people, have proved to be mostly ponzi schemers and gamblers. I say move over, and open the market to new people who understand what "banking" is and what investment means to America. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:20 PM, AtlasAynRand wrote: Too much coolaid in this author's water. Don't drink the coolaid. Time to strap on the boots and let the chips fall, and those short-sighted greedy Wall Streeters have their banks stripped of any valued assets many wise private equity guys would snap up like money pooring out of the heavens. Let the toxic waste remaining at these bad, bad banks go to Chapter 11. RIP Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Alex1963 wrote: I liked the article and thought it took some guts to write it. I agree with much of it. It's very easy to be pessimistic in this economy since we are all getting hammered. But the name calling and negativity is just wearing thin. I read alot of the blogs on MF and am amazed at the discourtesy. Calling the writer stupid, dishonest, crazy or questioning whether they even did their research? I chalk it up to fear and frustration and the anonymity of email (and poor manners). I doubt most of these folks would be half as vitriolic in person. I have read convincing arguments from many viepoints on the New deal and have come away with the obvious conclusion that economics is a murky field, I hesitate to say "science". It seems to depend on the authors politics whether they are pro or anti FDR New Deal. My personal take is that it is very early in and this particular situation is similar to others but still very unique and far more wide reaching. I voted for Obama and still feel confident that he is results oriented, practical, open to compromise, soliciting to the best minds and not intimidated by them, persuasive, and very smart. I believe like all presidents he has access to resources and information which are unavailable to anyone not in that office, I think he and his team will continue to work this problem nationally and internationally. I think he will shrug off the naysayers and the divisive elements and do the best damn job any person could. I don't believe he will blindly "stay a course" if reasonable time proves plans are not working. I believe in time he will inject a far greater element of accountability from himself and the people he expects to perform; from his staff, Congress, CEOs and on down. Many people ridicule his "Hope" theme but I would remind you that here at MF we are primarily a group of active (I assume) investors who are are trying to work a system which at is root is based on hope and fear. The stock market is basically the fantasy foorball of finance. If enough people believe, Tinkerbell, lives.. No sane person could say that the bulk of stock market moves are based on anything other than the collective assumptions of future repercussions and less on the underlying intrinsic value. I'll take some grown up leadership, concrete action and optimism thank you. We all know the market will turn around, the economy will revive and we'll prosper again, it's just a question of when, (unless you're in a bunker with your guns and water and miss the turn around-good luck with that). The global economies will revive, some better than others, it's just a matter of when. But it happens when people and companies, in enough numbers, BELIEVE it can happen and begin to spend, borrow and live like there will be a predictable tomorrow. Me, I'm buying all the value type stuff I can. I volunteered on 1/19. I'm active I my community, I've logged on to the Whitehouse website and taken part in the overall process in a small way. So I say, "Yes, we can." Get out there and do YOUR part. If you don't like what's happening I hope you are doing more than complaining on blogs. Get your voice heard or live with the consequences of your inaction. Spare me the doomsday scenarios, I'm sure that the amateur economists and historians feel sharing their views is helpful in some way but really don't we have that covered with FOX News, Rush, O'Reilly, Drudge and enough "the end is near" pundits to launch a 1,000 hot air balloons? Yeah, I think we do. See you on the other side and many happy returns Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:41 PM, overdehill wrote: I grew up during the depression also. Everything advocated in this article was tried by both Hoover and FDR. It consistently made things worse. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 8:02 PM, effinayright wrote: Any article on the bailout that doesn't say a word about Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, or how Democrat "lawmakers" such as Barney Frank and Chris Dodd provoked this crisis by stupidly crafting a social policy of "making homes affordable", and then FORCING banks to lend to people they otherwise would not, is just intellectually dishonest bullbleep. My sister, a big San Francico lib, told me that when she refinanced a few years back her bank asked her and her husband to LOWER their reported income on the application, so the bank could meet a quota imposed by Fannie Mae. She never understood why they would need to; now she does. Even she is appalled. As for these poor "homeowners" who are being foreclosed on: if you paid nothing down, falsified your income, and were lent more than the house was worth (all common), why should WE pay to keep you in "your" home? As for FDR's Magic Cures for the Depression: Free clue: a 14.3% unemployment rate is still a depression. The more I read sub-standard Fool articles like this the more I think the founders are now "phoning it in". I'll get my financial advice elsewhere, thanks. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 8:14 PM, courtneTHEgreat wrote: Like KimO and LauraE say: "I see." We cannot let the banks go broke because if we do, we do. It is like going to the bank to cash the bi-weekly IBM check for $126.00 and find out that the bank has no cash money to give you, AND your account is empty, waiting for FDIC to cover. The answer is simple: banks need to start acting right. They need a clean slate (good bank) and need to accept money and invest only on things that will increase the bank's net worth. The bank's pockets are not deeper than the cash in the vault. The answer also includes the Gov't taking over the ownership of the bank's issues (bad bank) and selling the assets at a good rate or manageing the debt until it is gone. This does not mean throwing money out to the banks (dogs) hoping to get a bone! Bank Regulation is back! (did we have it already?... no we could not have....) Bank of America will pull itself up. It is the tightest and meanest bank I ever used. And, yes... it uses tricks to get me off track so they can get a late fee... but that shows me they are working to get the money. btw: I paid off my account! ---courtne-the-Great! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Celtics17 wrote: The Democratic pork package as it stands now will have catastrophic effects for years to come. What a shame. Will someone tell these crooks that Marxism does not work? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:30 PM, jmsralnc wrote: Since we are using anecdotal information (see effinayright) here is another. My uncle tells of the time when he was 12 and his father, who had built a successful business providing insurance to those the big companies would not, i.e., African-Americans (until they saw profit to be made and drove him out of business), quietly dropped dead at the kitchen table one night. My uncle states, "There was no such thing as Social Security; there was no such thing as a safety net for my mother and me, or anybody else. The consequences for people who lost everything could be horrible." So his mother, until then a homemaker who did not work, took on boarders, for whom she cooked and cleaned. She took a job as kitchen help in the Waldorf Astoria. My uncle recalls getting a WPA job sweeping the floors of the floors of the school he attended, which brought in a couple of dollars a week. And my uncle claims to this day, "FDR provided all these programs just to keep us going." And yes, 1937 saw a return of Depression-type numbers. Why? Was it because that he got such heavy political pressure from conservatives about deficit spending that he decided to reverse course? Check the history. What was the government deficit-spending ratio at the end of the war? What happened to our economy during the next 50 years? Were we a wealthier country? Were our people healthier? What were the opportunities for a baby-boomer? What kind of chances at life did a white baby-boomer have? And yes, World War II did help end the Great Depression. Millions of young men like my uncle enlisted and served. Some were grateful and patriotic and saw the evil that must be stopped; some signed on for these reasons and also because the prospect for employment was so bleak. And millions of young and old women went to work in factories to support the war. And EVERYONE sacrificed through rationing of gas, meat, metal products, you name it--folks even grew Victory Gardens to help the effort. In any case, they all knew the malignant destruction the Great Depression could have on a nation, a community, a people. So, we could make the case that FDR's programs not only kept people from drowning in economic misery, but they also inspired Americans to pitch in during our darkest hours and most implacable challenges. So, you now have anecdotal information that FDR's programs worked. While they certainly have been bastardized in some cases, in many others they work to help people attain a better life, or even survive for that matter. They can help people become productive, which means paying taxes and contributing to the community. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:31 PM, pecede wrote: Bush Junior spent almost eight years looking for the terrorist enemies to our way of life, lo and behold we finally found them, it's us! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:39 PM, syvranchr wrote: Mr. Gibbons, When the government gave life to the so called "bail out" it also put out a death sentence to what is commonly called "capitalism". The ONLY way this will work is to override the words "bail out" with the word "regulation". Are you trying to say everything is just going to be peachy based on the bail out?? It sure as h--- sounds like! Have you determined what your children will be paying in taxes in the coming years? Or is that just irrelevant to you? Also, where is the justice in the pure GREED that was exhibited by the banks and just WHY should future generations be paying for these greedy so called executives?? There need to be a full independent and impartial investigation as to how the TARP funds were really spent and if THAT was not in the Country's best interest, it is a LOAN, not a "bail out". Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:53 PM, jesse2159 wrote: One sure way to make everyone happy (except the stock holders) is to nationalize the banks and fire the nitwits who were responsible for the nightmare. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 11:39 PM, jjkat wrote: Not too many facts in this posting. We need to go back to the gold standard and stop printing funny money. What is happening now to our economy reminds me of an awful movie, Americathon, where the US govt, about to be forclosed upon by NIKE (National Indian Knitting Equipment Co), had to run a telethon to raise enough money to stave off foreclosure. We'll all be speaking Chinese in 20 years! I'll take mine with a side order of Yang Chow fried rice! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 11:51 PM, effinayright wrote: jmsralnc : your anecdote doesn't overcome the FACT that before Pearl Harbor the unemployment rate was 14.3%. Your anecdote ignores the FACT that in order for FDR to provide his programs he had to either borrow money or tax others to fund them. Your anecdote about social security ignores the FACT that the ratio of retirees claiming benefits to those paying for them was 44 to one; today it's 3 to 1. Whatever rationale SS had back then it is now fiscally unsupportable, as it has become a crushing tax on the young. It would be interesting to learn if your sob stories about your grandparents is translatable to concern for the immiseration of YOUR children and grandchildren, Your anecote ignores how transformative it was for the US to have become the sole superpower in the world after WWII, after a global war that barely touched our shores. Europe, the USSR, and Japan were in ruins. You think maybe that fact, and not FDR's wise policies, had something to do with our rise to become a superpower? As for government "helping" people to become productive: what malarkey. That might be true for students or those in the military who learn a skill useful in the civilian world. I ask you: how many civilian government workers ever willingly go back into the private sector where they CAN be let go, or fired, if they are NOT productive? What tripe. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:00 AM, Riga40 wrote: Your Fool article is equal to the hoax stimulus bill being gradndstanded by rookie Obama. I have regained some faith in the people as I read posts by syvranchr, effinayright, overdehill, Celtics17,TycoUSAFA88,laughingstk, CalifCondor, cglaskowski and select others. HOWEVER, I have lost significant faith in the Fool after reading his article. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:46 AM, CraigGilkison wrote: what crap. You make money or you don't. If you lose you fold. Doesn't matter what you are selling. How friggin hard is this to understand? The strong survive and the weak fail. Life goes on and the world is a better place. Sheeesh Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:50 AM, CraigGilkison wrote: and another thing! Obama is an ignorant rookie. This BS plan will fail just as FDR's did. Federal reserve and ALL central banks are a scam. I feel good. That fact is starting to be understood. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:53 AM, stuartgordon69 wrote: One of the worst articles I have ever read; MF has really gone down in my estimation. How can people who do not understand economics 101 give investment advice? Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 3:44 AM, thomaslyons wrote: The first thing they should do is reinstate the Glass-Steagall act. (Unfortunately, Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999, which is one reason why banks were able to trade asset-backed securities (ABS) and blow up the system nine years later.) Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 6:12 AM, jmsralnc wrote: effinayright: Good grief, you are tedious. Please read and comprehend the post before commenting. Sorry you think my family anecdote is a "sob story." I don't and will not be convinced it is. Perhaps you should ask your "sister the BIG lib" how to handle the anecdotal information of which you are so fond. Or perhaps you might refrain from using anecdotal data to make a point. It is very hard to keep from using Reagan-esque terms like "Welfare Queen," especially in the post-Rove "they bad--we good" era. But if you try hard you might actually be able to come up with a concrete syllogism. At any rate, some of us have become accustomed to the the very mean, meaningless, and tiresome diatribes of so-called conservatives. We have a new adminstration now, and while you will continue to whine, we patiently await your constructive input. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 6:33 AM, GUSMAN1 wrote: Wasn't WWII the overall reason for America getting out of the depression? How will BILLION'S of TAXPAYER'S money going to save America from another "Great depression"? I just don't agree that this is the answer. I hope I'm wrong. God bless America Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 7:07 AM, fish4uinmd wrote: "Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves and politicians... all three need supervision." Richard,you sure did stir up a hornet's nest! Don't know what your background is, but I sure hope that you or your parents did not spend it on an economics degree! What about cutting corporate taxes (U.S. is the second highest in the world, I believe) and putting a freeze on capital gains tax? Thanks for the article nonetheless. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Mouse574 wrote: Normally I find that the Motley Fool does a fair job of avoiding mainstream biases and truly presenting an educational view on current financial events. Today I was disappointed. As we examine this financial crisis there are a few things we need to keep in mind that I believe the writer of this article failed to convey. It is very easy to place all of the blame on the banks as they actively participated in creating our current mess. Some of you may ask; ?Well if it isn?t just the greedy banks, then who else do you think is responsible? Here are a couple of things I think we need to keep in mind. The government thought that homeownership was something in which everyone is entitled. After all it is the American Dream, so along come the government sponsored enterprises of Fannie and Freddie whose purpose was to lower mortgage rates and make homes more affordable. It also encouraged a lot of companies to quickly originate and sell mortgages as securities. Of course the government wants to blame the "greedy" banks, but if it is the banks foolishly cutting us and themselves then it is the government who gave them the knife. Lack of regulation??? No, bad regulation and it doesn?t stop with the GSEs. Now let?s talk for a moment about the thousands of individuals who are unable to make their mortgage payments. Were many people the victims of bad products and sales tactics? None of us can deny that. Heck, it happens in many industries. But just as there were companies who demonstrated greed through seeking profit, many home buyers were just as greedy through their consumption. People bought homes they could not afford assuming that they would be able to sell when the value went up. People took out loans with teaser rates without any idea how they could pay for the mortgage when rates go up and they extracted equity from their homes for consumption of cars, vacations and other assets that depreciate in the short term. Before this crisis when I was looking to buy my first home many people in their wisdom told me not to purchase based on what I thought I could afford now but what I think my future income would support. WHAT??????? Thankfully I rely on my own education and sense of fiscal responsibility when making what is one of the biggest decisions of my life. So why do I say all this? It is not because I think banks deserve a pass. No, they will pay for their mistakes one way or another and they should. How many of the largest subprime mortgage originators still exist as they did before the crisis? How many of their CEO?s have jobs and how many bankers have been laid off? Take a look at Countrywide, Golden West, etc. But if we really want to prevent this type of crisis again we need to understand all the causes. We need to understand that it isn?t just the Bank CEOs that must fight off feelings of greed it is every one of us. And we certainly need to give our elected officials some feedback on their role in this crisis as well. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 9:32 AM, skully201 wrote: Nitwit (a foolish person). We are not nitwits. After reading your article I wonder about you and increasingly the information MF sends. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Dogbitten wrote: Do your research. Wachovia was bought out by Wells Fargo not Washington Mutual. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:24 AM, BUMPERK wrote: Now I know why they call you a fool. With all due respect, I can now see why Warren Buffet is in favor of the bailout. I do not know of anyone who would benefit more by it. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:42 AM, jej005 wrote: It seems outrageous that wall street should pay the huge bonus's that they do based on one years performance. Perhaps they should be averaged over a three year period, so that this year's bonus is based on the performance of the past three years. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 11:16 AM, FriarTuck100 wrote: I understand the need for some bailout, tax reduction, and creating jobs from real infrastructure changes. However, we are not correcting the problems that caused the issue and we have printed over 1.2 trillion dollars since 2001. Printing more for more uncontrolled bailouts is out of hand. We have more pork in this stimulus then you can find at Bubba's hog emporium.If you thought the infation in the 1970's was bad, you haven't seen anything yet. If this continues to go on, we will be joining the Icelandic rebellion! Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 11:30 AM, whereaminow wrote: Enjoy my rebuttal of this article: http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=138329&t=0... Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:31 PM, RichardRLJ wrote: Stimulating the economy and consumer confidence is the way out of our recession. I think the lower prices we are now paying for fuel may be worth more than the tax relief and all of the pork in the stimulus packages. Until folks realize this, however, and consumer confidence returns, spending (and our economy) will not recover very quickly. Has anyone calculated the value of our "gas price relief" versus the pork stimulus package and the meager tax relief stimulus? Unless we do something about energy - that is nuclear and domestic drilling - higher demand for energy will again bring higher prices for energy and the threat of extended low growth. In the 1970's the high energy costs led to inflation. Since borrowing was already over-extended during the last energy crisis, the borrowing stopped and the recession resulted. For a long term solution and growth of our standard of living, we need to reduce the real "cost of goods sold", of which energy is a major portion. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Bkeepr100 wrote: Now we have a democrat congresswoman telling people to stay as squatters in their foreclosed homes. http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=9761194 Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:58 PM, texjammer wrote: Here we go again! If you disagree with a Liberal (ie Socialist, Marxist, etc.), it's because your a mean-spirited, shelfish, hate-mongering conservative that listens to Rush. How about the fact that we actually LEARNED something about History in school, before the NEA started dumbing down the curriculum so morons could "feel good" about themselves. Are these the same people that "feel good" about themselves when they buy a whouse they can't afford to make payments on? Or are they the same "feel good" politicians that want 51% of the population dependent on government programs so they retain power? FDR's new deal extended the Depression for years beyond the recovery of the European economies. And Obama's "STIMULUS" package will only stimulate more bankruptcies of the small businesses that actually employ the majority of workers in this country and create a larger problem. It has already been written in the comments for this article, but deserves to be emphasized again. If you want to IMMEDIATELY stimulate the U.S. economy, cut corporate tax rates or send the $800 BILLION directly to the taxpayers. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:03 PM, texjammer wrote: And to whereaminow: David, your rebuttal is one of the best researched pieces I have seen anyone put together about the New Deal HOAX. I strongly recommend EVERYONE read it, whether you believe FDR was the problem or solution. Here is his link again: http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=138329&t=0... Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:30 PM, rcpetty wrote: "Unfortunately, our regulators disliked regulation, and last year, the resulting crisis drove the banking system to the brink of collapse." There is much more blame to be accounted for creating the crisis: Greenspan's Fed made money too easy - the money supply sufficient to fuel the dot com and the sub prime bubbles; Congress refused to properly regulate Freddie and Fannie and fanned the flames by authorizing them to meet their Community Reinvestment Act requirements by expanding their authority to purchase a huge portfolio of sub prime mortgages; Congress refused or D's threatened filibuster when the administration asked for some constraints on Freddie and Fannie; Congress created and pushed the Community Reinvestment Act (Clinton era D Congress) to require bank investment in sub prime mortgages; the SEC allowed investment banks to increase leverage; Greenspan ignored specific warnings that could have let to bank regulation; Greed, self interest, and ignorance led bankers to sub prime loans; weak multiple bank regulators overlooked or didn't understand sub prime risks; and the credit agencies were beholden to the debt issuers rather than the buyers; government enabled the 3 credit agency strangle hold by naming them in legislation and regulation as the only sources; credit agencies conflicts of interest were manifold; and on and on. A pox on them all, including an irresponsible congress and a naive president who thinks the giant earmark called Stimulus Bill will solve the problem and who - after allowing Reid and Peliso to create the Stimulus Bill - thinks that going to the hill to chat up Republicans constitutes bipartisanship (see Peggy Noonan here http://www.savethis.clickability.com/saveThisApp?clickMap=li... ) and on and on. To say that deregulation or the lack of regulation solely caused this crisis is an irresponsible assertion. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 2:25 PM, FleaBagger wrote: I'm a conservative, but I know that tax cuts will do little more to stimulate the economy than government spending. Government spending cuts, allowing deflation to run its course, will stabilize the economy, because when the responsible people's dollars are worth something again, they'll start spending money. Good stocks aren't going down any less because of inflationary monetary policy attempting to pump up asset prices in the face of a massive credit contraction. That's because the bailout is designed to give all the money to bad stocks, or nationalize them. No wonder our stock market is crashing. Our rulers (and Mr. Gibbons) are openly advocating Great Depression policy. You know what you get when you implement the same policies as Hoover and F. Roosevelt? You get the same thing we got then: a Great Depression. By the way, your narrative of what caused the current problems is interesting. You say that the problems were caused when banks were allowed to invest in ABS's. Well, someone was going to invest in them at one price or another. "Where did they come from?" is an interesting question. They came from other banks. Retail banks. The front line of the mortgage industry, where people were battling the difference in the percentage of white people who owned houses and non-white people who owned houses. Since non-white people make up a disproportionately high percentage of people below the poverty line and other demographics frequently denied mortgages, the 103rd U.S. Congress and President Clinton forced banks to provide mortgages to more poor people, so as to help black and Hispanic people (because discriminating against people who can't pay their mortgages when underwriting a mortgage is racist). These loans that failed earlier underwriting standards were reclassified as "subprime" loans, meaning a higher likelihood of nonperformance and default, but they were small loans secured by valuable real estate, so the risk was mitigated. Also, they could be combined into "tranches" and the rights to the interest could be sold to investors looking for higher yields than bonds offered: the Asset Backed Securities. You might say that ABS's were the free market reaction to (perhaps) well-meaning government interference. But the interference didn't cause huge problems, did it? I mean, we were all prospering more than we could stand back in Clinton's day, right? Well, asset bubbles take time. And they are caused primarily by the issuing of credit (or debt) that is generated without anything to back it up, mainly by the Federal Reserve (credit) and the U.S. Treasury (debt). That is, without imaginary money (credit), prices would be unable to rise except at the expense of other products and assets. Through deficit spending and irresponsible monetary policy, Congress and the Fed, respectively, increase the money supply until an asset bubble forms. In the 90's, it was tech stocks (and other stocks). Then, when that bubble burst, no debt went into default, no banks had invested in tech stocks and went bankrupt, so the inflation stayed around, waiting for its next victim, as it were. Then inflation hit housing. People were buying homes because you don't just live in them, but they make great investments! They're not making any more land, and you can't live in a stock, and it never loses very much of its value, and they went up 15% last year.... and you can get a 90% mortgage with a job that barely pays you enough to make your payments, so why not? Well, as more and more people found that the end of "redlining" meant the affordability of a home, the prices went up more and more. Bankers (who are, by the way, just as shortsighted as Gibbons says) saw the skyrocketing house prices and started writing 100% and even 105% mortgages, and to people with no proof of employment (because, after all, default would result in the bank getting a house, which is better than money). Anyone could get a house, get some free money from the bank while they were at it, and then sell the house at a profit two months later. Flip that house! (Flip it good.) When homebuilders had to go and spoil all the fun by building almost more houses than there were people in the country, house prices started showing signs of weakness. Shocking, I know, but house prices do sometimes go down a lot. Especially when everybody realizes how stupid they've been (or at least how stupid everyone else has been), and half the country has a house that they don't want. Anyway, people started to default on the mortgages that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place. The ones that were bundled into tranches and sold as ABS's. Many of the payments stopped, and the ABS's dropped in value. Now that private sector companies have suffered a combination of unjust law and their own stupidity, people want to blame the free market for the resulting trouble. Not this time. Try free market first, and then if it fails (without government cheating), then we can talk about the failures of free market. As a wise man once said, "It's not free market if there's a thug at the top fixing prices!" On an earlier post, someone commented that they chose to believe that I don't know what "redlining" is, or else I wouldn't be defending it. I know what "redlining" was: it was the process of determing whether or not someone has adequate means and will to pay back their debts. If their means or their credit rating is inadequate, they don't get a loan. That's good business, it was demonized as "redlining" and tied unfairly to allegations of racism, it was essentially banned, and that ban (along with the current solutions that Mr. Gibbons and others support) was a major cause of the current economic trouble. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 3:49 PM, mrmok wrote: Very disappointing that Fools are joining in undeserved praise of the new president. I thought the title was tongue in cheek, but I could never find the punch line, except that the government is first going to take our money in taxes and then devalue it through exorbitant inflationary spending. I guess the author is taking Obama happy pills. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 4:54 PM, venkytalks wrote: As I keep reading more and more pessimism, my own is beginning to lessen This is what I said on TMF in 2007 Nov (I am copying from my blog) Thursday, November 29, 2007 The Subprime Bore I have been hearing doomsday predictions for the last 7 years about a collapsing US economy and have believed them all. Still hasnt come true yet. And I am getting tired of the Cassandras and have started disbelieving doomsday scenarios. The subprime crisis is the latest of a long list of crises that have preceded it. I doubt that it is as serious as the shrill voices on CNBC make it out to be. As a person living in India, I would am sure about about one thing - the skill levels of the average American are so far above those of even the best Indians (living in India), that there can be no developing nation threat for the US in the forseeable future. As for China, the Americans have tied them up effectively as cheap labour to power the US lifestyle. If US is over leveraged, imagine the overleveraged plight of China - its longterm infrastructure loans are enough to kill it with even a small hiccup in the Chinese economy. The US killed the Japanese economy by selling them overpriced real estate in the 80s. When South East Asia collapsed in the late 90s, the Americans (and British) picked up the bargain stocks cheap. Now they are killing the Chinese economy by selling them junk dollar bonds. Back in the nineteenth century, the British forced the Chinese to get addicted to opium and then forced them to buy opium from the British. The Chinese had no choice in the matter. Now the Americans have again left the Chinese with no option - they have to hold on to the falling dollar, or watch their economy perish. The people of China have been effectively addicted to a meteoric stock market - and when it falls, as it is bound to, there will be a Boxer rebellion against the communist government. And the Americans will be there to cherry pick the fallen stocks. The US is the most powerful economic block in the world and is likely to remain so. The chaotic business channels may make a lot of noise, but life will go on, the people of USA will weather the storm, make a few adjustments and get back on top. They have the competitive advantage. As for a middle east crunch, I doubt that any Iranian military crisis is likely. More likely, oil will rise to $125, spark a mild and temporary recession, stock markets of USA and BRIC will fall like ninepins, oil will fall to a ridiculous level (maybe $20), Americans will make some life style adjustments, work hard (at something other than selling houses to each other) and by 2010 life will get back on track. Hedge funds will pick up great bargains from the BRIC markets, wealth will flow and the cycle would repeat itself ad-nauseum, as it always has. (27 Jan 2009: Looking back, I was wrong about subprime crisis being unimportant (big wrong!), right about China (stock market index Shanghai composite went from over 5500 when I wrote to 2000 or so now; Boxer rebellions may emerge any time!), right about Iran (no war happened), right about oil price (went to 147 and then collapsed), wrong about oil price sparking recession because it was the subprime crisis itself which has sparked this recession (kind of right still, I think), right about stock prices of USA and BRIC (fell like ninepins), right about what choices Americans would make (suddenly people are scrambling to keep their jobs!). What happens in 2010 is still out there, but I might have been wrong to predict things getting back on track. Things look pessimistic now, as I have written in another recent post above. Not a bad job of predictions, even if I say so myself. These predictions above were made when the Indian stock market was behaving like a rocket. I cashed out on my stock market investment in end November, missed 20% gain till Jan 7 of 2008, also missed the minus 50% move (much more in some stocks). Happy to have put my money where my mouth is, happy to not have been greedy for the last 20% and happy to be sitting on cash right now. These predictions were posted by me on The Motley Fool. I pity the Fools who turned out to be fools and did not listen!) This is what I had to say a couple of weeks ago elsewhere on TMF Saturday, January 17, 2009 Some data on the Dow Jones Industrial Average There were stock market returns in the 1930s, they did not beat safe debt returns in terms of risk (speaking broadly). Look at the following charts All Time: (In the long term, we are dead and cannot enjoy our money)http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html 1920-1940 http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia19201940.html Look at the knife you would have had to catch in 1932 (at DJI <40 to get the reward of DJI 150 in 1939. More likely, you would have got in at 1933 at DJI 100 and reached DJI 150 in 1939. Look at 1930 to 1932.How many downward plunges were there - you would have had no returns from 1931 to 1939 if you had called the bottom too early. Old people would die waiting in such a time frame 1940-1960: No matter where you invest, you make money long term http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia19401960.html 1960-1980: Speaks for itself http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia19601980.html 1980-2000: Also speaks for itself http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia19802000.html I dont want returns 10 years from now, I would rather put it in debt securities and wait for a better opportunity in todays market Posted by Venkateswaran K Iyer at 10:07 PM 0 comments Investment thoughts for 2009 Only about 60% of the bad news is out, 40% bad news is yet to come (in my estimate). Some of the bad news still waiting to happen are: Short Term (for 2009): 1. Earnings degrowth in Chinese companies, leading to loan defaults, Chinese bank failures and depressing commodity prices. There is a deafening silence from China right now, the bad news is likely to be humongous. 2. Earnings degrowth in Indian companies - though most companies will ride out the storm 3. Low commodity prices decimating the remaining value in Russian and Brazilian companies with loan defaults and more trouble for International banks 4. Slow grind down in USA with increased job seekers (fresh grads, laid off people and old people who are unable to make ends meet in retirement, all running after the same pool of shrinking jobs), causing marked reduction in salaries - bad news gadget makers and retailers and credit card companies Long term (for 2010) 5. Collapse of the education market, since the fees are not commensurate with subsequent earnings prospect. There will also be student loan defaults, since high fees paid will not yield returns in the job market 6. Saturation in the computers and techno gadget markets will lead to poor performance by companies manufacturing these, since people will no longer buy useless gadgets when they already have a gadget which does similar work. 7. Decline in dollar value with low interest rate coupled with high fiscal deficit as the govt pump primes the economy will make imports expensive. People will stop buying cheap crap from Chinese companies because they dont need them and they get expensive. Chinese companies manufacturing useless articles will (and are already) going broke. 8. European high tech manufactures and high tech services will have a slowly shrinking market. The grind down there will be slower than US but equally prolonged. 9. Credit card defaults will continue through 2009 and 2010, putting presure on financials. It will also put severe pressure on retailers as is happening now. 10. Unexpected political events (wars) causing reduction in economic activity, effect of demographics in USA as the baby boomers age and the increased cost of medical attention are all risks not yet factored in. My expectation: The time to invest in India, China, Brazil and Russia is after their markets come down about 30-40% from current levels when more of the bad news comes out. Maybe later half of 2009 or first half of 2010 The time to invest in US markets is probably never in our lifetime. At least not for the next 15-20 years. If at all one has to invest, then after markets come down another 30-40% from current levels (Dow 5000 levels) in sharp downturns and trade actively, getting out on every sharp upturn. Long term hold strategy may be to buy into low cost mutual funds at every downturn (Dow 5000 to 6000 levels) for young people. Old people are not able to hold for 10 years, so stay away from this strategy. Stock selection will be very difficult in the next 10 years, since there is a change in the pattern of world economic activity, similar to what happened in the sixties and seventies. The tree will bear fruit in 2020, which tree nobody knows. Old people should invest in debt securities for regular income. Remember: 1. The time to invest long term in stocks after the 1929 crash was 10 years later in 1939. 2. The time to invest after the recession of the seventies and early eighties was 10 years after 1974 3. Stock selection after 1929 and 1974 was successful in the hands of just one or two super investors. And we dont know how much of that was luck siding with them 4. The world was changing in the 1930s. And the 1960s and 70s. The old ways died and nobody anticipated how things would be. 5. The world is on the threshold of unanticipated change, just like the 1930s and 1970s. The old ways will die. New patterns of living will emerge. The rules of investing will of course remain the same. And they are screaming - WATCH OUT! BE CAREFUL! DON'T GET TOO GREEDY! We live in intersting times. Watch with curiosity, but keep your money safe, dont jump in too eagerly and with too much expectation. (my post on The Motley Fool website) But I am slowly beginning to switch my view point, now that Feb of 2009 is upon us. The point of maximum pessimism might be already here after all. Now if only the bad news from China really gets "out there". I dont think anything would push us down further once that is out of the bag. Thats when I would like to buy. Hope I dont miss the bus after all Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 6:11 PM, ngibat wrote: What a crock! This is what comes of treating history as though it were a series of headlines and not bothering to read the stories. I was born in the 1920s so I remember the 1930s well indeed. And I was one who fairly much went along with the new deal philosophy (my father was a factory worker) and I still believe FDR was a good guy for trying almost anything. But history has fairly well shown he was wrong wrong wrong and we don't have to repeat the mistakes of our fathers just because we admired them. After 4 years Roosevelt should have been voted out. Hard to say how his Republican opponent in 1936 would have done (Landon from Kansas) but it probably wouldn't have been any worse and might have been better. Thank goodness for the following: andrew888; byrneshill; intpj; kent1941; godsright; wfi' sbossert; jivedadson and especially casomega and laughingstk and the many many others who had no difficulty seeing how lightweight was that article. Really I expect the fool to do better than this and, fortunately, this is likely a lapse--which happens to the best of us. But it would help if you read these articles before printing them. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 7:46 PM, sullivas wrote: This is the most disappointing article I have read from The Motley Fool. History is not accurately depicted here relative to FDR and his role in the economic turnaround of this country. It's a shame this article doesn't talk about the pitfalls of us as a country not having learned from history. Mass infusion of capital (aka, taxpayers' money) may indeed sustain status quo for awhile but it will only delay the inevitable and pass on the bill to our grandchildren. By then, the government will have taken ownership of certain industries, we and the government will have become accustomed to the government's ownership and our future capitalistic landscape will have forever been altered. Disappointing article, very disappointing. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 9:43 PM, teamdixon1 wrote: I would like for the author to explain the REASON for his change of opinion from the Dec 30 article "Moral Hazard 2008" to the current article "Bail Out is Great". We do not like the tone of the current article. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 9:55 PM, clevelandrudge wrote: Isn't it interesting that Richard Gibbons' reasonable and accurate article is met with an onslaught of fury and revisionist history from the right. To those posters who gave vent to anti-government diatribes, let me remind you that for the past eight years, our government has been dominated by ideologues who seized power illegitemately and used it to enrich the already wealthy at the expense of the already poor through regressive tax cuts and a slew of other devious and secretive methods too numerous to list here. Not to mention starting an illegitemate (there's that word again!) war that has drained untold millions from our treasury and caused the deaths of uncounted thousands, including brave soldiers from our country and innocent civilians in the Middle East. How come I don't hear the CAPITALIZERS on the right complaining about that? By the way, fleabagger, the practice of redlining was specifically designed to make it more difficult and more expensive, if not more impossible, for people of color to get mortgages and other loans and as such was most definitely designed to exclude them from the so-called American dream and was at its heart utterly racist. Defend it if you must, but please recognize it for what it was. So my congratulations go out to Mr. Gibbons and the editors at the Fool for writing and publishing an informative article that truthfully deals with the complex economic, social and political issues that faced us then and face us now. Please don't be intimidated by the blowhards. True patriots do not fear the truth about their country or feel the need to rewrite its history. And I'd like to thank such posters as onthemarsh, alex1963 and jmsralnc for sharing their thoughtful, lowercase insights. Hang in there. We will get through this, although some shoes will surely be tossed in the process. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:07 PM, joec38 wrote: It's time to punish the members of Congress who helped create this mess by listening to big banks and lobbyists. I recommend a national movement to reduce the number of senators per state to one, and to reduce the number of each states representatives by 50 percent. Then reduce the congressional and committee staff by 50 percent. Lastly, limit all members of Congress to six years maximum service and end all retirements for and limit vacations for members of Congress and their staffs. Public service is a privilege. A lose calculation estimates the nation would save at least $10 billion annually, and Congress would be more efficient. We could give the money to hometown banks because they know best how to use the funds to stimulate the economy. So let's get to work and start a national movement to reduce the size of government; specifically Congress! Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 10:58 PM, BestLite wrote: Seems Barack and Joe are ready to play Class Warfare. Can the breaking of glass on Wall Street be far behind? If we debrief them all would that be like shorting them? Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Phoenix07 wrote: Here's the thing...the beauty of Capitalism in the abstact is that it creates mutually beneficial outcomes for both parties in a transaction and allows for a market clearing transaction in the absense of outside inventionary forces... I realise, flowery and idealistic but, honestly, this is pretty basic, borrowed money is exactly that borrowed. It needs to get paid back. You can stretch the amortization out to infinity but, all you are doing is raising the cost of the borrowed capital. Didn't we learn this from the chastised and stretched behavior of consumers and their associated enablers. I love that we rightfully villify Tom Petters, Cosmos, Bernie Madoff and the like and yet the government's Ponzi scheme is lauded as a "stimulus" vehicle. Also, in the era of talking about transparency, how 'bout focusing on how many votes these politicians either skip or vote "present" on?! Your an elected official paid with taxpayer funds to represent your constituents and have an opinion (ideally representative of that of the people who elected you). If I decided to not show up for work and do my job more than 90% of the time, I'd be fired. Period. Why should those who govern be different. Do you think they do semi-annual 360 reviews in Congress? Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 8:47 AM, LP1956 wrote: Man! After reading this is ridiculous analysis of OBAMBI's bail out plan, I cannot believe I was Fool enough to subscribe to MF. Yes, there is some INFRASTRUCTURE funds, but the rules for these funds are so restictive on how this is going to be spent it makes the benefit negligible. This plan is full of NON-PRODUCTIVE social programs that do nothing to create meaningful JOBS that produce a good or service. The only purpose most of the BAIL OUT funds are going to be used for is to increase democrat voter turn out. 4.9 BILLION for Neighborhood Stabilization!! Translation 4.9 BILLION for ACORN & VOTER FRAUD! And this is just one of many such earmarks in the bill. ALEX1963, last I new I had a hard time paying my mortgage with HOPE! It's amazing to me how you democrats use illogical reasoning to justify what you want reality to be! We now have a Treasury Secretary who committed tax evasion and we are suppose to have HOPE! I'm laughing! Like one other FOOL indicated 'enforce the law' and tell Congress to stop passing idiotic ones, like the ones that got us into this mess. Let's not forget Barney Frank & Chris Dodd. Too Einstiens looking out for the best interest of themselves. They should be the first one's wearing pinstrips not made by Armani. Cutting the corporate tax rate to 10%, capital gains tax to zero, having a strategic energy plan, reducing tarriffs on American made goods, not re-instated the moritorium on off-shore drilling, and giving this money to the TAXPAYERS is what is the best medicine. Oh and two more things, tell the GOVERNMENT to cut federal pensions and balance the federal budget. Enough is enough! Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Alex1963 wrote: Fleabgger Redlining is the illegal practice by banks of refusing to loan in geographic areas in effect drawing a "redline" around neighborhoods where they don't want to lend even when those same neighborhoods support the bank with deposits. I've been a realtor for decades and live just outside of Chicago in Oak Park. Immediately next door is the Westside of Chicago an area of high crime, and brutal economic conditions and little opportunity. It was discovered that even the local West side banks were rejecting the loan application of qualified local borrowers for the "safer bets" of the wealthier areas using laxer underwriting than those used for the local borrowers. Maybe that is good business in some peoples view. But if a bank is collecting deposits and relending mostly to people outside their business sphere while using tougher qualifying for their own customers that is a situation that needs to be remedied. If the banks are so short sightes as to not see the long term benefit of a well a managed local lending program then they should have regulations and quotas imposed until they begin to see the light, reap the benefits and no longer need to be taken to court to lend to people and businesses they should have from the start. And again, this notion that poor people have added much to the financial or real estate bubble is simply not supported by data unless you listen to the outright misinformation spewing from the Right. The foreclosure rate is no higher and has been lower for years to people of modest means because banks were required to offer federally approved loan councilling to these borrowers and stick to strict lending guidelines under their charters to loan the federally or state backed funds. These borrowers had , in effect, less freedom to overborrow than say a "better risk' higher income borrower who did not fall with the income levels of those more attractive loan programs. I agree with some of your timeline and the some of your resoning for the RE bubble but I would point out that by correctly citing speculators and 2nd home buyers you have hit closer to the mark. Now my guess is that the foreclosure rate among those targeted for the Coomunity Reinvestment will now begin to catch up and possibly exceed the rates of "higher income" borrowers but this may be more due to the fact that low income people are hit first and hardest when the economy really suffers, and they have the hardest time recovering. I would not say those people should then have not had any business trying to build wealth and get ahead. It is through home ownership that most Americans build the bulk of their long term net worth. And the more people who can soundly take advatage of home ownership the better for all of us. Or am I being "illogical" I would also point out that whether you personally agree with the Iraq war you have to admit it has cost an absolute bundle, say either side of a trillion USD and has not benefitted the economy much as some past conflicts have. (Cheny is doing great-of course through Halliburton) so that is a least one indisputable and monster drain on what could have been a more sutained growth after the Clinton years or might have at the very least softened the downturn when the bubble burst. Venkytalks-really interesting post! I don't know if all the analysis within is your own but there are elements I haven't seen anywhere else but many of your conclusions resonated. I'll study it further. LP1956 I don't expect you to pay your mortgage with hope. I don't pay either of mine with it, and I see reality just fine. I also didn't expect the underpriviliged and discriminated to be 'trickled down to" with "a thousand points of light" under a couple of Republican so called free market prgmatists. I monitor the left, right, and fringe for a balanced wordview, No offense but most of what you wrote I could get off of FOX or talk radio verbatim. And there is no 4.9M going to ACORN that is a Right Wing misinformation smear and you is easily refuted if you do alttle digging. I'm not too happy about Geithner (or Daschle's) tax issues, I agree with you there. Don't know what "illogical reasoning" I used that you are referring to. To LP1956 (and many others) I suspect you will see measures more to your liking in the Stimulus Bill. I know many of you may not like it period but give it more time. "Obambi" (that's actually kind of funny & one of the better ones I've heard) is not nearly as naive as you may think, not as craven. I suspect he'll craft a final package which incorparates more of the Right & Conservative (& even Libertarians who can be satisfied shy of a total untried social experiment with the world's most powerful economy may find some cause for "hope" and inclusion) concerns and goals and I think that will be a good thing. I have heard some good ideas (some of yours LP1956 I agree with, by the way) from the all over the political spectrum and I think "Obambi" is listening to them all. And to all of you who write versions of ' this article doesn't agree with my thinking so therefore MF or the author is stupid..." Think about that. Have you really got it all figured out? No other viewpoints could be equally valid (or flawed) as your own? Yikes, let me know what mountaintop you're on so I can make a pilgrimage, but I'm going to want to see YOUR credentials after you're done bashing Obambi's or Mr. Gibbons :) maybe if we all just admit none of us have all the answers but maybe we all have some good ideas and that we're all in for some uncomfortable uncertainty for a while then we can all listen to each other with a little more respect and openmindedness & a lot less veiled hostility. Convince me rationally but if you just want to antogonize those you don't agree with you are likely to only win only those who already agree with you. I refer everyone to a great speech in the American President: "When you can tolerate a man advocating at the top of his lungs a position that you would spend your lifetime opposing at the top of yours.. then you can sing to me of the Home of The Brave and The Land of the Free. Democracy is hard! Democracy is advanced citizenship: you gotta want it because it gonna test you" (paraphrased & maybe a little mangled, too, from memory) clevelandrudge, I like your post, too. And most of all your respectful and reasonable tone! More of this on MF, please. Respectfully Alex Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 12:07 PM, cliffyworld wrote: Please read related article titled "Welcome to the U.S.S.A" posted at http://www.cliffyworld.com Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 2:46 PM, mafox wrote: The rose-colored glasses really need to come off. You couldn't be more biased toward the new president and the stimulus plan. His comment this past week, calling the GDP and the economy a "continuing disaster" for Americans. Wow, way to go Mr. President! I feel so positive about my future. Stop comparing this to the Great Depression. FDR's New Deal didn't resolve it. World War II did. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 5:29 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: Color me simple, but can someone explain how it was that WWII got us out of the Great Depression, if not through fiscal stimulus? Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 5:33 PM, whereaminow wrote: If war is the only way to fix a planned economy, consider me an opponent of central planning. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 5:43 PM, whereaminow wrote: TMF Diogenes. I don't have the work at quick reference but I will try to find. It was study on the post-WWII American economy. It showed how the war fixed nothing. After the war, the economy was still in the dumps, but an exhausted government took a step back. Americans returning from Europe and Japan rebuilt the economy as old institutions crumbled. In other words, the government finally gave up and got out of the way. Here is another phenomenal read. They don't teach you this kind of stuff in American schools. "Nazi in Exile: Martin Bormann" by Paul Manning That book will blow your freaking whole kingdom to holy heck. David in Qatar Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Dreamtonightmare wrote: Mr. Richard Gibbons, if you believe that you are a FOOL. The problem with capitalism today is that all of our elites in this country live to another standard and beyond the law, period! Now even those in our own government have nothing to fear. This is starting to turn into critical mass! It is truly sad to see our country moving in this direction. Any money thrown at these corporations that is not a loan, payable with interest, will never work. Free money... from the American tax payer. What a great country, I can support a bank so that they can charge me thousands of $'s in interest (up to 32%!) to keep them alive! Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 10:23 AM, ziq wrote: It's nice to read something other than the usual free market orthodoxy here. Centrally planned economies do not work, but neither does anything-goes unregulated capitalism. The sweet spot must be somewhere in between, with just enough regulation to do the job and no more. Finding it is politically difficult. Government intervention is appropriate to attempt to solve the current crisis, but it is not at all clear it will be effective, or that something else even more politically unpopular wouldn't have been more effective. Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 2:45 PM, venkytalks wrote: Alex 1963, my thoughts and writings are always my own. I only cut and pasted from my blog because the originals are lost somewhere within TMF But my ideas come from many places, including a lot from TMF and many of the comments on articles - like this one! Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 10:00 PM, vanbet wrote: I think allof the foregoing comments are abunch of hogwash.Iwas there. I remember the bank "holiday,very well" the banking system was in danger of total collapse.This was basically caused by the management playing the stock market with the depositors funds . The main difference was that the banking system was much more fragmented than today. I remember my Mother's farm being foreclosedwhen I was 8 yrs.old. Don't talk to me about the great depression. I was there. What pulled us out of it was the tech. abilities of of our industries.The brains and inventions of our people. Alas the inventive spirit and work ethics of the GREATEST GENERATION have been replaced by the GREED AND AVERICE of their children.I have hope that I will not be around to see the final chapter in the history of our once great country when it descends into third world status, brought on by the self serving, greedy,politics of todays politicians. , Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 10:12 PM, polenium wrote: According to saavy economists banks such as Citibank and Bank of America should be nationalized even for a period of years, if necessary. The sooner the better. The economy is shrinking everyday these broken organizations are refusing to lend to customers or regotiative depreciated assets. Handing out scarce taxpayer dollars to the same crooks and incompetents that created this crisis with no oversight or requirements has been (predictably) a miserable failure. The longer we wait, the worse the recession/depression will be. Liquidating their assets, removing irresponsible executives, renegotiating loans with homeowners and opening the credit system is what is needed to restart the economy. Throwing more good money after bad won't. Another institution that badly needs oversight and transparency is the Federal Reserve. It is a branch of the US Government yet none of the meetings minutes have been made public. They are now refusing to tell where the 2 trillion dollars they pushed out at the beginning of the crisis went. We live in a managed economy not a free market economy. It's really important that the economy be managed for the benefit of all. That definately has not happened in the recent past. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 11:42 AM, LeonardChallenge wrote: Senate Must Reject Faux Stimulus By David Limbaugh http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Americans should contact their congressmen before it's too late about their instinctive concerns over efforts to convert the world's greatest engine of free market prosperity into a socialistic leviathan under the euphemistic cover of possibly successive rescue "stimulus" bills. The stated rationale for the original Troubled Asset Relief Program "bailout" wasn't to stimulate the economy to get it moving again, but to toss it a liquidity life raft to loosen credit markets and keep it from drowning. That is, the idea was to prevent a catastrophe, not to empower little Napoleons in government to play G-d with the economy. Former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's scare tactics ? heartfelt or not ? panicked the country into action, and TARP became a reality. Yet not much seemed to change. Politicians will always be able to say that if we hadn't implemented TARP, America's economy would have tanked beyond our wildest nightmares. And being without the supernatural power to prove a negative, we'll never be able to disprove their claims. Of all the concerns we had concerning TARP, our greatest should have been that once we opened the door to this magnitude of governmental intervention ? especially under a Republican administration ? we'd have even greater difficulty in resisting efforts by politicians to reopen it in the future anytime they pronounced there was a crisis. Sure enough, Mr. Obama and his confidants view this "crisis" with eager anticipation as an opportunity to actualize their dreams for government to assume its rightful place as Master of the Universe and choreograph the economy on a super-macro level. Even the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office has revealed Obama's bill is largely not stimulative. It's more accurate to describe it as a grandiose slush fund for his preferred projects, support groups and constituencies on the spending side and a massive redistribution of income on the tax side. When the bill is stripped of its rhetorical disguise, we see it's a license for government to shackle the invisible hand of the free market and appoint itself manager of the gross domestic product according to the superior wisdom of central planners. Why do you think the Obamites are constantly blaming market excesses, greed and Wall Street for our financial problems, when most of the blame lies with politicians themselves? Why do you think they trash talk the economy every day, when they know that such pessimism from "on high" will cause real economic damage, considering that much of the spending downturn is related to a crisis in consumer confidence? The answer is that they need us in panic mode ? the only mindset likely to divorce us from our ordinary walking-around sense and make us receptive to the big-government remedies they're salivating to employ. Note that President Obama doesn't even pay lip service to making his interventionist plans short-lived. And by their terms, it's impossible they could be. This is an effort to restructure our economy radically toward the type of command and control model that has accompanied tyrannical regimes throughout history. Nor does Mr. Obama express the slightest concern that his plan would further expand the national debt. Indeed, Democrats have suddenly developed permanent amnesia about their professed budget concerns, whose primary usefulness (as weapons against President George W. Bush) expired along with the Bush term. To accept that deficits and debt were high on their priority list would require us to believe they'd fundamentally changed their age-old tax-and-spend philosophy and to ignore their persistent obstruction of entitlement reform. The Clinton budgets are no rebuttal. Clinton had to be dragged kicking and screaming to fiscal restraint by the Gingrich Congress. Everyone knows government doesn't have the money ? even through tax receipts ? to fund this bill. Other than defense spending, which Obama unwisely plans to cut drastically in this time of war, Obama has no intention of substantially cutting other expenditures. Even if the bill as presently configured succeeds in jump-starting the economy, there will eventually be a day of reckoning over our increasingly unmanageable national debt. If only government-planning liberals would be honest and admit they believe their ideas on how to spend the people's money are morally superior to those of the American people as expressed through the free market. Then, instead of dealing with the smoke and mirrors of the bill's proponents, we could point to world history to demonstrate conclusively that despite the sometimes-best intentions of social planners, command and control economies have only spread misery and never worked to produce the kind of prosperity that is only possible in a free market. Unless this bill is dramatically overhauled, the Senate, instead of trying to massage it toward passage in allegiance to the seductive but dangerous goals of bipartisanship or just getting something done, should reject it outright. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:17 AM, iamari wrote: i'm afraid it might be worse than it seems. it might be the biggest fraud in history and the bailout the cherry on the crooks' cake. read this: http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/news/what-cooked-the-... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Cyprian wrote: "Unfortunately, our regulators disliked regulation..." That's just stupid. This entire article reads like the same kind of mindless "Hope! Change!" nonsense that regulated banks into loaning money into non-credit-worthy, disadvantaged communities via the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) regulations/quotas in the first place. "Unfortunately, our regulators disliked regulation..." Oh for cryin' out loud, people! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:49 AM, tommytutone wrote: Richard, you've fallen for the scare tactics peddled by Henry Paulson and now Obama. Either that, or you're a socialist in disguise. Capitalistic dogma? blindspots? acting our of anger? Save the rhetoric, Richard. Bailouts will only make things worse in the long run. You people who are so anxious to "do something" to hurry and "fix this," need to wake up to the fact that a quick isn't possible. What IS possible is to start putting things in place, so this doesn't happen again. Examples: - liberal congressmen stop forcing banks to make bad loans - stop with the easy money (think alan greenspan and ridiculously low rates for years on end) - abolish fannie mae and freddie mac, and put those CEOs in jail - SEC do its job and pay attention to scoundrels like Madoff - clean up corporate boards (i.e. no CEO as chairman of his own board, reduce conflicts of interest on the boards) - find a creative way to limit CEO pay (since they won't do it themselves, and they are stealing shareholder money, with brokerage houses and other institutional investment houses acting as their willing accomplices); stock options are not incentive to perform well. they are incentive to make up numbers; just another way of stealing from the small-time shareholders - these are just a few this isn't rocket science. people just need to find the courage to implement these types of things. cowards like the author of this article will want to appease with bailouts. they'll pat themselves on the back, because "we did something. we tried." get some backbone, richard. this article was a loser. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:18 PM, SolarInvestor wrote: Many here put the blame of this bailout on Obama. As of today, Obama hasn't done anything. The banks were bailed out by Bush. Republicans are about helping business, democrats are about helping citizens, and that's just what's happening. I don't agree with Obama's stimulus plan, but it's not mostly pork. It's mostly trying to create jobs and giving citizens tax credits. Still, I don't think it will work, same as it didn't work in 1932. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:37 PM, jpjp2 wrote: So, if the stocks to buy are in MF Inside Value, then I guess the MF Stock Advisor is the Outside Value? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:38 PM, halfpint31 wrote: I wonder who the FOOL is that wrote this article!! As someone who grew up in a socialist country I can smell socialist tendencies from a mile away!! I guess it's a matter of whether America wants to be controlled by its government or not. I say only FOOLISH, naive people would want that!!! Only weak minded people want to be controlled by others because they simply do not believe in their own abilities! And let us look at who this government is made up of?? A bunch of socially, morally, fiscally illiterate individuals!! Do we want these people making imperative decisions for our country and our future??? I want to understand how creating a whole bunch of highway fixin' jobs is going to stimulate the economy and promote long term growth? How many people are even qualified to perform such jobs? Or will it be on the job training? Might I mention that only 17% of the funds will be spent this year?? You people live on a different planet! Wake up now or you'll wake up in commy America very soon! Let the banks fail! If my husband's business goes belly up, the government won't bail him out! Let there be a restructuring of the banking system! Some regulation is always necessary because consumers and investors need to be protected from irresponsible, money hungry individuals!! However, too much regulation gives the government too much control over our lives. I for one do not wish to yield control of my life to anyone in the US government!! One of my favorite quotes is from the movie Neverending Story when the Nothing says: "WHOEVER HAS THE CONTROL, HAS THE POWER!!!" Do we want to give our power away to an irresponsible government (who, by the way, is in a major way responsible for our current economic situation) or do we empower ourselves and make our own decisions using the good old rule of COMMON SENSE that seems to have been forgotten by many??!!! Let us be careful with what we wish for - we might just get it and it might not be pretty!! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:42 PM, JTODD04 wrote: Holy cow! Are you KIDDING ME? http://is.gd/iC2V This is where we give $350B to people who bought too much house. This isn't a loan. It is a transfer from you+me to them. The most frustrating thing to me is that no one is answering the questions of WHO is pays for bailout and WHEN. Seems taxes/inflation are certainly coming. Loans pull spending forward at the cost of future purchasing power (reverse compounding). Growth driven by loans is sustainable only when the population grows. Guess what? US population growth is slowing. Assumptions are down by 1/2 in 50 yrs: http://is.gd/iCOl Next census, assumptions probably will be worse. Giving $ to underwater people only pushes pain out... $350B to re-overspend (no behavior change) gets us thru next election cycle. Then $1T in pork projects that socialists have been dreaming about for years. If we insist on a stimulus, how about this idea: 1 yr income tax holiday UNLESS you default on a loan. Give incentives to keep promises. I recommend: www.valueinvestingcongress.com for more info on what we're facing. Lots of reqs on this post, but I'd bet if there were an option to "bury" like on digg, this post would be one of the worst in the history of TMF. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:58 PM, CPA007 wrote: In the past, I was led to believe that MF knew what they were talking about. I was hopeful that a plan could be voted on that would not contain all the pork projects that the Democrats have put into the current "Stimulus Plan???". I was wrong. In the future, the US budget is going to be 100% interest. MF has exposed its true feelings regarding the political world. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:07 PM, mchuckie wrote: Don't confuse 'bailout' with 'stimulus'. The bailout was probably necessary as described, the stimulus will go down as the biggest porker ever. Save jobs or make jobs? What started out as a million and a half new jobs has morphed into 3 million jobs created or "saved." How do you quantify "saved' jobs? The only jobs saved will be government jobs when the feds send the money to the states to spend. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:12 PM, skat5 wrote: Nobody seems to be talking about the velocity of money. You don't get a 'stimulus' from a tax rebate if the recipients save the money instead of spending it. Tax credits as opposed to tax cuts or rebates, with expiration dates, will increase money flows. This means instead of weatherizing government buildings, one provides a substantial tax credit to homeowners and even renters, and to commercial buildings, to increase the energy efficiency of their buildings. This is intelligent spending of federal money because: it spreads the benefit widely into the private sector, it encourages individuals to spend some of their own money together with the federal money from the tax credit thereby providing some spending leverage, it employs workers in an area that is very depressed (construction), and it provides a future payback to participants (lower energy bills). How much of the so-called stimulus money does things like this? Rather than pittances for everyone's favorite pets, a few good ideas could be better funded. There should be at least one idea, perhaps more, but not too many, that is "inspirational" to the American people. Examples of previous inspirational spending programs are: Tennhesse Valley Authority, Apollo Moon Landings, Star Wars Initiative. An example of an inspirational program for our times is Energy Independence. Another is Smart Health Care. Another is the Information Superhighway. Tiny dollops within this huge spending package are given to each of these but without focus and great commitment, there is no widespead inspiration, just the pleasing of narrow special interests. For example, energy independence could include those tax credits that give, for example, homeowners a five-year payback on installation of solar hw heaters or voltaic panels on their roofs; replacement of inefficient heating/cooling systems for more efficient ones; addition of power transmission lines along transportation corridors (guess why); funding for computerized traffic control in major urban areas (including use of cell phones to track traffic flows and redirect drivers around jams); creation of energy-efficient but high-speed mass transit with thought given to replacing current routes that may be damaged by sea level rises; funding for converting car fleets and trucks to operate on natural gas, including small business loans to add natural gas pumps to gas retailers along major transportation corridors; establishment of transmission lines and rights of ways for wind energy corridors; a feasability study for a federally operated nuclear fuel reprocessing center to reduce nuclear waste while recovering additional nuclear fuel; research on carbon sequestration including a liquid oxygen pilot power plant, a nextgen nuclear reactor, further research into affordably replacing auto bodies with materials safer than steel but lighter than aluminum; buybacks and scraping of older, more polluting and least fuel efficient cars. What we get instead of Inspiration is a Pelosi-Reid led bunch of stale special interest chestnuts. No surprise it is not popular and the more one learns about it, the less popular it becomes. It does not help that republicans in the senate have even less vision. Looks like we are not getting the sort of presidential leadership that so many thought was promised. Within the next decade, be free of dependence on foreign oil? Sounds good to me. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:13 PM, ReillyDiefenbach wrote: A wide and deep panorama of wilful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty on display in the comments section here. The question remains, when are you repubs going to take responsibility for your actions and admit the indisputable fact that lack of regulation is the root cause of the orgy of thievery that has driven our economy into the ditch? Please do the world a favor and take the hint. We've tried your way for 28 years, and we're done with you, for the simple reason that you've wrecked the economy. We're going to try a different way, one that involves spending money on infrastructure instead of occupying foreign lands for the benefit of the oil companies and Halliburton. We're going to spend money employing people, instead of giving yet more money to the wealthiest tiny percentage, hoping that some crumbs might fall from their golden tables, even though that's never happened in recorded history. And yes, we're going to spend a tiny fraction of your money on art, because every other civilized country in the world does it, and it makes our country a more habitable place than one more F22. And here is what must really grate: there's not a damned thing any of you squealers can do about it. This package will pass. It won't matter one iota what apoplectic screeds you tap tap tap to your favorite websites. You lost, and lost big. The American public has spoken, loud and clear. Elections have consequences. Phil Gramm's idea was to give the sharpest, least principled, most driven among us carte blanche to resection mortgage backed securities and sell them to all and sundry at a triple A rating, Let's allow them to create the most grandiose 40 to one Ponzi scheme in human history while awarding themselves stratospheric bonuses taxed at 15% while the ordinary jills and joes pay 30% like the born poor, die poor suckers they are. The glorious free market will take care of everything. Well guess what, Einsteins, it didn't. What some of you commenters lack is called a social conscience, a basic caring for the other person. You toss and turn on your Beautyrest Super Pillowtops only at the thought of someone asking you to carry your fair share of the burden. I hereby suggest that you take your bought and paid for economic theories, your Laffer curves, your trickle down and all the rest of the deceptive claptrap you've been using since Hector was a pup and stick them. Here's a hint: socialism and FDR don't have a damned thing to do with what's happened to us. Most socialist countries have a far better standard of living than we do in the U.S. It's called unregulated CAPITALISM. Tap away, gentlemen, and no thanks to you for losing us all so much money! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:25 PM, mayab7 wrote: Have you forgotten that we no longer "produce" anything? Our country is run on credit, servicing credit, advertising, marketing and money scams are the stuff we produce these days. Cars, refrigerators, TVs, our production is infintesimile. Farms are owned by big agribusiness. We're cloning corn and cattle. Where's the "hard work" and "sweat" that some of us remember being the key to success and happiness? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:26 PM, pdheart wrote: Hey, I've lost money right along with you. More government, and borrowing and spending are no ways to rebuild this economy. It just delays when the piper will be paid.... on the backs of your and my children. Our government will take over the banks, the autos, healthcare, etc. We'll all work for the government, at capped wages (there's some incentive). The slackers will make the same as the best and brightest (if they stay in the US)... Want to know what will happen if we stay on this path? Read Ayn Rand. Atlas Shrugged. She wrote it last century and it reads like a play-by-play account of what is happening right now. I hope Obama can rally the troops. He is inspirational. The Congress on the other hand is the same old congress. This problem is too big for just Obama to solve, though I wish him all the best as he wrestles with the old guard in DC, and it doesn't matter if you're thinking Dem or Republican... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:28 PM, mvp019a wrote: Hey Mr. Gibbons: You sound just like any other proto-socialist toadie. Our government isn't going to save us from this; they are the ones who helped cause it. The Fed and fractional reserve banking are the cause of these boom-bust cycles, with a liberal dose of high level corporate lack of ethics. You just need to put every culpable bank exec in jail for 10 years minimum (instead of multi-million golden parachutes), and while you're at it throw Barney Frank and Ben Bernanke with them. (Oh and let's not forget Hank Paulson.) The banking system is no less a Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff. As long as we continue to monetize debt our trip to the third world is assured. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:38 PM, NowFoolMe wrote: Dear Mr. Gibbons, A case can probably be made for TARP but the house stimulus bill is a disgrace in terms of content and process. FYI . . . many economists believe that FDR's policies extended the great depression - suggest you do some additional research in this area. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:51 PM, anthonyafterwit wrote: Even if you are correct about your bailout theory ... HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ THE STIMULUS BILL? I compare it to a doctor saying, "You have cancer and we must treat it immediately or this crisis will become a catastrophe. Now, take this leach and apply it to your breast." Good diagnosis, bad treatment. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Bonefish100 wrote: Hogwash, humbug and balderdash. What nonsense! How much did you say the banks will be getting in the bailout? The "Stimulus Package" is the most pork laden nonsense that has come down the pike since the commuter flying saucers that were supposed to be parked in our garages in the 1990's. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:03 PM, timkop wrote: The bailout is necesarry, however it has to be used wisely. Not let the banks write off on toxic loans and give out bonuses to themselves. The banks should recirculate the bail out cash to Qualified Borrowers repeat Qualified Borrowers( those with a history of repaying loans) at very favorable low rates ( say 2%-4%). This will jump start economic activity and put people back to work. People that work will have money to pay their mortgages and loans.. The economy will start to accelerate and banks will have business from Qualified Borrowers. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:06 PM, GRuss1953 wrote: While there may be stock opportunities, anyone at Fool thinks this Bailout is Great loses my confidence! After about 10 years as a Subsciber, makes me now feel Foolish! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Psycmeistr wrote: Such Pollyannish thinking and discounting of capitalism will lead me to think twice before renewing my Motley Fool subscription. Actually, it probably won't take much more thought at all. Sayonara. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:17 PM, mattcomment wrote: Article is misleading. The current bailout being debated is not the TARP plan which Buffett publicly supported, but a "stimulus" package. The latter has been criticized due to it's large price tag and potentially wasteful spending. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:25 PM, barnea1 wrote: Let me add my opinion to the growing list of criticism to this article. The Bailout is not a bailout at all. It is a massive government spending package. The bailout includes payments to the National Endowment for the Arts, spending for moving federal agencies from one government building to another, and a plethora of other obsene ideas that do nothing but increase the size of our already bloated federal government. Let's be clear, Japan tried this same strategy in the early 1990's and it turned out to be a disaster. One socialist Prime Minister after another resigned in disgrace as the Japanese economy plunged deeper and deeper into recession as the Debt-to-GDP ratio climbed as high as 180%. Now President Obama wants the government to purchase shares of corporations and regulate salaries of companies taking bailout money. Government ownership of business, government regulation of salaries, does any of this sound familiar? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:32 PM, 2infinity wrote: It looks like the Motley Fool has become very foolish. The government interference in the markets is what caused this mess. Motley Fool is advocating for more government control which leads us further down the road to socialism. Notice Motley Fool how many countries are prosperous with the increased socialistic hand of government at the wheel--NONE. At this time I have to consider the Fool a real fool and I cannot bother with listening to a real fool. Time to end the subscrition. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:32 PM, ScottDevereaux wrote: People who now say Roosevelt's New Deal had no positive impact are delusional. Without the new deal millions of unemployed and elderly people would have starved to death. The TVA was instrumental in stopping deadly floods and producing hydroelectric power that spurred tremendous economic development. Wealthy republicans hated the New Deal because the focus was on the working class and not the wealthy - just as Republicans today ask for more tax cuts for the wealthy, when those tax cuts contributed tremendously to the problems we are now in. Roosevelt saved peoples lives and was America's most beloved President. Republicans despised him. Be careful what you believe in the Republican's revisionist history. Bush was the worst president in history and that is not debatable. He did everything wrong. Roosevelt did almost everything right. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Donwturner wrote: Right on, ReillyDieffenbach! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:37 PM, chabelyk wrote: I agree with TYCOUSAFA88. This is the first article I've read that left me scratching my head in puzzlement. Capitalism doesn't reward the lazy. Capitalism doesn't reward failure. To say that this bailout is great is the ultimate insult to capitalism and capitalists everywhere. This bailout is great? The MotleyFool needs to get real on this one! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:39 PM, nafi77 wrote: I feel sorry the most for those who did not get themselves in trouble in the first place. The bail outs just place them in a position of 'I did everything right, and you prevent the best from taking the reigns.' I would imagine they feel betrayed by their government. Spending is spending. Creating government projects will place the money back in the hands of the banks anyway, but it will do so in an unpredictable way. This method will create pockets of wealth rather than help everyone. The past 8 years didn't get us here you have to go beyond that and remember the Clinton era fannie and freddy arguments to realize that the problem occurred trying to fix those entities and Clinton wouldn't budge. Welcome to the compromise. Thanks Bill! I would imagine this problem is why Hillary didn't get the nod to run. Would have been something to explain? Get rid of payroll taxes for the next 3 months......problem solved.....no.....have another payroll tax holiday. How hard is that? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:44 PM, skat5 wrote: Toxic assests the banks hold should be paid out as bonuses and severance to their exectutives instead of cash. Let them eat their own cooking. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:44 PM, NONOBAMA wrote: Please tell me that this is a tongue-in-cheek article. If this author is serious he needs to study some more history and do more serious research about the effects of FDR's policies. You are just trying to Fool us, right? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:44 PM, CopyCat3000 wrote: Guys, guys, guys its not just about how much money we can spend. Its about what happens when third world countries finally decide that they don't want our paper for their goods. What happens then? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:46 PM, roho30068 wrote: I have to agree with most of the othe folks responding here...I have absolutely no confidence that this bailout will do anything to stimulate the economy. Most of the spending that is not outright PORK, won't actually see the light of day for a year or more and will only go to growing government. Although I believe that our infrastructure needs drastic improvement and a new energy policy is great, both of these are long term programs that won't do anything to stimulate in the short term! I am beginning to question whether I will listen to anything here again because it looks like MF just wants us to buy their picks and push the stock market as the only way to go right now....very self-serving. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:47 PM, naluli wrote: For your reading enjoyment.... 50 De-Stimulating Facts Chapter and verse on a bad bill. By Stephen Spruiell & Kevin Williamson Senate Democrats acknowledged Wednesday that they do not have the votes to pass the stimulus bill in its current form. This is unexpected good news. The House passed the stimulus package with zero Republican votes (and even a few Democratic defections), but few expected Senate Republicans (of whom there are only 41) to present a unified front. A few moderate Democrats have reportedly joined them. The idea that the government can spend the economy out of a recession is highly questionable, and even with Senate moderates pushing for changes, the current package is unlikely to see much improvement. Nevertheless, this presents an opportunity to remove some of the most egregious spending, to shrink some programs, and to add guidelines where the initial bill called for a blank check. Here are 50 of the most outrageous items in the stimulus package: VARIOUS LEFT-WINGERY The easiest targets in the stimulus bill are the ones that were clearly thrown in as a sop to one liberal cause or another, even though the proposed spending would have little to no stimulative effect. The National Endowment for the Arts, for example, is in line for $50 million, increasing its total budget by a third. The unemployed can fill their days attending abstract-film festivals and sitar concerts. Then there are the usual welfare-expansion programs that sound nice but repeatedly fail cost-benefit analyses. The bill provides $380 million to set up a rainy-day fund for a nutrition program that serves low-income women and children, and $300 million for grants to combat violence against women. Laudable goals, perhaps, but where?s the economic stimulus? And the bill would double the amount spent on federal child-care subsidies. Brian Riedl, a budget expert with the Heritage Foundation, quips, ?Maybe it?s to help future Obama cabinet secretaries, so that they don?t have to pay taxes on their nannies.? Perhaps spending $6 billion on university building projects will put some unemployed construction workers to work, but how does a $15 billion expansion of the Pell Grant program meet the standard of ?temporary, timely, and targeted?? Another provision would allocate an extra $1.2 billion to a ?youth? summer-jobs program?and increase the age-eligibility limit from 21 to 24. Federal job-training programs?despite a long track record of failure?come in for $4 billion total in additional funding through the stimulus. Of course, it wouldn?t be a liberal wish list if it didn?t include something for ACORN, and sure enough, there is $5.2 billion for community-development block grants and ?neighborhood stabilization activities,? which ACORN is eligible to apply for. Finally, the bill allocates $650 million for activities related to the switch from analog to digital TV, including $90 million to educate ?vulnerable populations? that they need to go out and get their converter boxes or lose their TV signals. Obviously, this is stimulative stuff: Any economist will tell you that you can?t get higher productivity and economic growth without access to reruns of Family Feud. Summary: $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts $380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program $300 million for grants to combat violence against women $2 billion for federal child-care block grants $6 billion for university building projects $15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships $4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for ?youths? up to the age of 24 $1 billion for community-development block grants $4.2 billion for ?neighborhood stabilization activities? $650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate ?vulnerable populations? POORLY DESIGNED TAX RELIEF The stimulus package?s tax provisions are poorly designed and should be replaced with something closer to what the Republican Study Committee in the House has proposed. Obama would extend some of the business tax credits included in the stimulus bill Congress passed about a year ago, and this is good as far as it goes. The RSC plan, however, also calls for a cut in the corporate-tax rate that could be expected to boost wages, lower prices, and increase profits, stimulating economic activity across the board. The RSC plan also calls for a 5 percent across-the-board income-tax cut, which would increase productivity by providing additional incentives to save, work, and invest. An across-the-board payroll-tax cut might make even more sense, especially for low- to middle-income workers who don?t make enough to pay income taxes. Obama?s ?Making Work Pay? tax credit is aimed at helping these workers, but it uses a rebate check instead of a rate cut. Rebate checks are not effective stimulus, as we discovered last spring: They might boost consumption, a little, but that?s all they do. Finally, the RSC proposal provides direct tax relief to strapped families by expanding the child tax credit, reducing taxes on parents? investment in the next generation of taxpayers. Obama?s expansion of the child tax credit is not nearly as ambitious. Overall, his plan adds up to a lot of forgone revenue without much stimulus to show for it. Senators should push for the tax relief to be better designed. Summary: $15 billion for business-loss carry-backs $145 billion for ?Making Work Pay? tax credits $83 billion for the earned income credit STIMULUS FOR THE GOVERNMENT Even as their budgets were growing robustly during the Bush administration, many federal agencies couldn?t find the money to keep up with repairs?at least that?s the conclusion one is forced to draw from looking at the stimulus bill. Apparently the entire capital is a shambles. Congress has already removed $200 million to fix up the National Mall after word of that provision leaked out and attracted scorn. But one fixture of the mall?the Smithsonian?dodged the ax: It?s slated to receive $150 million for renovations. The stimulus package is packed with approximately $7 billion worth of federal building projects, including $34 million to fix up the Commerce Department, $500 million for improvements to National Institutes of Health facilities, and $44 million for repairs at the Department of Agriculture. The Agriculture Department would also get $350 million for new computers?the better to calculate all the new farm subsidies in the bill (see ?Pure pork? below). One theme in this bill is superfluous spending items coated with green sugar to make them more palatable. Both NASA and NOAA come in for appropriations that properly belong in the regular budget, but this spending apparently qualifies for the stimulus bill because part of the money from each allocation is reserved for climate-change research. For instance, the bill grants NASA $450 million, but it states that the agency must spend at least $200 million on ?climate-research missions,? which raises the question: Is there global warming in space? The bottom line is that there is a way to fund government agencies, and that is the federal budget, not an ?emergency? stimulus package. As Riedl puts it, ?Amount allocated to the Census Bureau? $1 billion. Jobs created? None.? Summary: $150 million for the Smithsonian $34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters $500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities $44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters $350 million for Agriculture Department computers $88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building $448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters $600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids $450 million for NASA (carve-out for ?climate-research missions?) $600 million for NOAA (carve-out for ?climate modeling?) $1 billion for the Census Bureau INCOME TRANSFERS A big chunk of the stimulus package is designed not to create wealth but to spread it around. It contains $89 billion in Medicaid extensions and $36 billion in expanded unemployment benefits?and this is in addition to the state-budget bailout (see ?Rewarding state irresponsibility? below). The Medicaid extension is structured as a temporary increase in the federal match, but make no mistake: Like many spending increases in the stimulus package, this one has a good chance of becoming permanent. As for extending unemployment benefits through the downturn, it might be a good idea for other reasons, but it wouldn?t stimulate economic growth: It would provide an incentive for job-seekers to delay reentry into the workforce. Summary: $89 billion for Medicaid $30 billion for COBRA insurance extension $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits $20 billion for food stamps PURE PORK The problem with trying to spend $1 trillion quickly is that you end up wasting a lot of it. Take, for instance, the proposed $4.5 billion addition to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers budget. Not only does this effectively double the Corps? budget overnight, but it adds to the Corps? $3.2 billion unobligated balance?money that has been appropriated, but that the Corps has not yet figured out how to spend. Keep in mind, this is an agency that is often criticized for wasting taxpayers? money. ?They cannot spend that money wisely,? says Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense. ?I don?t even think they can spend that much money unwisely.? Speaking of spending money unwisely, the stimulus bill adds another $850 million for Amtrak, the railroad that can?t turn a profit. There?s also $1.7 billion for ?critical deferred maintenance needs? in the National Park System, and $55 million for the preservation of historic landmarks. Also, the U.S. Coast Guard needs $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship?maybe global warming isn?t working fast enough. It should come as no surprise that rural communities?those parts of the nation that were hardest hit by rampant real-estate speculation and the collapse of the investment-banking industry?are in dire need of an additional $7.6 billion for ?advancement programs.? Congress passed a $300 billion farm bill last year, but apparently that wasn?t enough. This bill provides additional subsidies for farmers, including $150 million for producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish. Summary: $4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers $850 million for Amtrak $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship $1.7 billion for the National Park System $55 million for Historic Preservation Fund $7.6 billion for ?rural community advancement programs? $150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases $150 million for ?producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish? RENEWABLE WASTE Open up the section of the stimulus devoted to renewable energy and what you find is anti-stimulus: billions of dollars allocated to money-losing technologies that have not proven cost-efficient despite decades of government support. ?Green energy? is not a new idea, Riedl points out. The government has poured billions into loan-guarantees and subsidies and has even mandated the use of ethanol in gasoline, to no avail. ?It is the triumph of hope over experience,? he says, ?to think that the next $20 billion will magically transform the economy.? Many of the renewable-energy projects in the stimulus bill are duplicative. It sets aside $3.5 billion for energy efficiency and conservation block grants, and $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program. What?s the difference? Well, energy efficiency and conservation block grants ?assist eligible entities in implementing energy efficiency and conservation strategies,? while the State Energy Program ?provides funding to states to design and carry out their own energy efficiency and renewable energy programs.? While some programs would spend lavishly on technologies that are proven failures, others would spend too little to make a difference. The stimulus would spend $4.5 billion to modernize the nation?s electricity grid. But as Robert Samuelson has pointed out, ?An industry study in 2004?surely outdated?put the price tag of modernizing the grid at $165 billion.? Most important, the stimulus bill is not the place to make these changes. There is a regular authorization process for energy spending; Obama is just trying to take a shortcut around it. Summary: $2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research) $2 billion for a ?clean coal? power plant in Illinois $6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program $3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program $200 million for state and local electric-transport projects $300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs $400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments $1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries $1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees $8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects $4.5 billion for electricity grid REWARDING STATE IRRESPONSIBILITY One of the ugliest aspects of the stimulus package is a bailout for spendthrift state legislatures. Remember the old fable about the ant and the grasshopper? In Aesop?s version, the happy-go-lucky grasshopper realizes the error of his ways when winter comes and he goes hungry while the industrious ant lives on his stores. In Obama?s version, the federal government levies a tax on the ant and redistributes his wealth to the party-hearty grasshopper, who just happens to belong to a government-employees? union. This happens through something called the ?State Fiscal Stabilization Fund,? by which taxpayers in the states that have exercised financial discipline are raided to subsidize Democratic-leaning Electoral College powerhouses?e.g., California?that have spent their way into big trouble. The state-bailout fund has a built-in provision to channel the money to the Democrats? most reliable group of campaign donors: the teachers? unions. The current bill requires that a fixed percentage of the bailout money go toward ensuring that school budgets are not reduced below 2006 levels. Given that the fastest-growing segment of public-school expense is administrators? salaries?not teachers? pay, not direct spending on classroom learning?this is a requirement that has almost nothing to do with ensuring high-quality education and everything to do with ensuring that the school bureaucracy continues to be a cash cow for Democrats. Setting aside this obvious sop to Democratic constituencies, the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund is problematic in that it creates a moral hazard by punishing the thrifty to subsidize the extravagant. California, which has suffered the fiscal one-two punch of a liberal, populist Republican governor and a spendthrift Democratic legislature, is in the worst shape, but even this fiduciary felon would have only to scale back spending to Gray Davis?era levels to eliminate its looming deficit. (The Davis years are not remembered as being especially austere.) Pennsylvania is looking to offload much of its bloated corrections-system budget onto Uncle Sam in order to shunt funds to Gov. Ed Rendell?s allies at the county-government level, who will use that largesse to put off making hard budgetary calls and necessary reforms. Alaska is looking for a billion bucks, including $630 million for transportation projects?not a great sign for the state that brought us the ?Bridge to Nowhere? fiasco. Other features leap out: Of the $4 billion set aside for the Community Oriented Policing Services?COPS?program, half is allocated for communities of fewer than 150,000 people. That?s $2 billion to fight nonexistent crime waves in places like Frog Suck, Wyo., and Hoople, N.D. The great French economist Fr?d?ric Bastiat called politics ?the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.? But who pays for the state bailout? Savers will pay to bail out spenders, and future generations will pay to bail out the undisciplined present. In sum, this is an $80 billion boondoggle that is going to reward the irresponsible and help state governments evade a needed reordering of their financial priorities. And the money has to come from somewhere: At best, we?re just shifting money around from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, robbing a relatively prudent Cheyenne to pay an incontinent Albany. If we want more ants and fewer grasshoppers, let the prodigal governors get a little hungry. Summary: $79 billion for State Fiscal Stabilization Fund ? Stephen Spruiell is a staff reporter for National Review Online. Kevin Williamson is a deputy managing editor of National Review. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:49 PM, DPollock290 wrote: Another article like this and I think I'm BAILING out of my membership. Gibbons isn't wearing rose colored glasses, he's wearing a blindfold. Another Jefferson quote is goes something like this: "The government cannot give anything to anyone that it doesn't first take from someone else." I don't know about Gibbons, but I've had just about enough taken from me by a government that perpetuates victim mentalities and entitlement attitudes. Tell me folks - exactly which government program is it that is well managed, solvent, and effective? NONE. If you like Social Security you're gonna LOVE government healthcare! ENOUGH! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:58 PM, CaraClaudel wrote: Obama's stimulus package is not a stimulus package. He is paying his constituents and setting up one-party rule in America. Obama is a Marxist. From his absent but idealized Communist father to his Communist childhood mentor, to his years of work on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge with small-c communist Bill Ayers, his 20 year attendance at the Marxist-based Trinity Church, and his work for ACORN and its subsidiaries, his life is full of Marxist ties. Further, he has studied and taught Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals," which teaches radicals to use deception to make the middle-class think you're on their side. His stimulus package gives billions of dollars to groups like ACORN, which not only was instrumental in our economic collapse, but which also engaged in massive voter fraud in this past election. ACORN was not founded to help the poor. It was founded to collapse capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy. They are currently succeeding. When they are funded with billions of our tax dollars, we will never see free and fair elections in America again. Capitalism is simply economic freedom. If we don't have economic freedom, we are slaves of the state. Patriotic Americans should be burning up the phone lines to our representatives demanding that this theft of our wealth be stopped, and that our march toward socialism be reversed. We need to take the correction and provide emergency help to people who are out of work so they can get through this difficult time. Then we need to cut taxes on job producers so they can afford to create new jobs, reduce some of the insane regulations that are designed to drive people out of business and make them dependent on the government, drill for oil at home while developing alternative sources of energy, and make America a friendly and reasonable place to manufacture goods again. Yes, we need to regulate derivatives that can cause so much chaos and prevent CEOs from looting their companies while driving them into the ground. But giving Obama and company all our money and total control of our economy is not the way. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:04 PM, JPerryE wrote: THE BAILOUT IS GREAT! ...BS... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:05 PM, WindyCityPaul wrote: This may be the single silliest thing I've ever read- ever. The financial system collapsed due to primarily to two main causes: Artificial liquidity from the Fed- ultra low rates made no sense with full employment and economic growth. Artificial demand for housing due in large part to the Community Re-development Act that began under Carter, continued under Reagan, was greatly expanded under Clinton. The global financial meltdown was fueled in large part by the aggressive buying of subprime and Alt-A mortgages by Freddie and Fannie. I agree that we must temporarily provide liquidity to the financial engine of our country, however neither TARP, nor this latest bloated pork bill do much to fuel lending-- nor does government spending on pork projects help to stimulate the economy. We need consumers spending right now, and to fuel that they need credit, and they need to keep the fruits of their labor. We need jobs created now more than ever, and to fuel that we need to reward risk takers, not punish them with punitive tax rates and the ultimate tax: inflation- which is exactly what we are doing now. This is not the change we need. This is Carternomics II, and the result will be the same. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:05 PM, gemhoust wrote: Capitalist DOGMA??? Dogma???!!! You ARE fools. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:14 PM, spontius wrote: Always remember, the 3 'culprits' negatively impacting our nation's and our personal economic health and well-being are: 1. Utilities 2 & 3 Tied. Banks and Insurance Companies. Always have been, clearly true today, and always will be. Foolish Fan Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:15 PM, deelelbee wrote: You fooooool ! FDR's efforts caused only an increase in the unemployement and a further drop in the GDP. And the bank managers were FORCED BY 2006 2007 CONGRESS Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:15 PM, Saratovets wrote: Obama's new deal is not a stimulus plan and any Fool that spends 10 minutes looking deeper than its name knows that. Not only that, but it goes against pretty much all of the stated Motely Fool investing ideals and it moves our country directly into the course to socialism. There is one reason that the bulk of the world-changing developments of the past century have come out of the US and that is capitalism. If you agree, please write or call your senators and ask them to support the constitution and preserve what makes our country so great. Ask them to stand up against Obama's spending bill. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:16 PM, zeke39 wrote: Interesting stuff here. My guess is that this is a community of investors, who can be expected to accept the consequences of their decisions --- good or bad. That is why there is such little sympathy for the mistakes of others --- especially those due to excessive greed or political ideology (Barney Frank comes to mind). I do not know enough of the history of the Great Depression and its aftermath to comment on that aspect. For the people who are relying on President Obama to lead us out of this mess: My understanding, from following this quite closely in the press, is that he is not all that active in shaping the bill --- rather he is, against his best interest, letting Pelosi and Reid shape the bill with all the kitchen sink thrown in. He does not seem to have exerted any discipline whatsoever on the formation of the bill. I personally believe that long-term lower corporate tax rates are even more important than personal ones --- if the purpose is to get the economy going through the creation of jobs. We have no business taking money from people who have managed their affairs responsibly and give it to people or institutions (especially the government!) who have failed to do so. Giving tax rebates or extended unemployment, temporarily (!), will not significantly stimulate the economy. However, it will allow people to see their way through the tough times, and give them the opportunity to organize the future (for example, to pay down debt!) Laudable, and should be done responsibly --- that is, without contribution to increased size of the government and entitlement programs for the future. And it should be recognized for what it is --- important policy for the amelioration of the hard-pressed citizens, but not economic stimulus. The pork (both business and political ideological) in the bill has undermined all the faith people might have had in bill. Remember --- there is a reason why the Congress, lead by Pelosi and Reid, had a lower approval rating than ex-President Bush. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:17 PM, adammeyerson wrote: I just checked the calendar and it's not April 1. But I'm guessing this is some kind of experiment to how many "FOOLS" would believe this is your true opinion. Do I get a prize? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:18 PM, dpbEsq wrote: Is this investment advice or punditry from a political talking head?? 1. President Bush thought it best to bail out the banks, Mr. Obama seeks to bail out unions, the very poor and Hollywood; 2. Mr. Obama is not President Roosevelt. Obama's 2009 (anti)Stimulus Package is not the New Deal. In fact, its not even a stimulus package. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:19 PM, morgan628 wrote: The largest single transfer of private wealth to the United States Government. This Bailout is Great? Please advise how I go about cancelling all of my Motley Fool subscriptions. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:23 PM, JPerryE wrote: There seems to be a mistaken notion that it's ?government money? that would be spent. So the federal government borrows a trillion dollars which comes from taxpayers. Then pays it back, with interest (equal to about 30 - 50%) which comes from the taxpayers. The taxpayer ends up paying from 1.3 to 1.5 trillion dollars. The efficacy: If you liked the ?Bridge to Nowhere,? you?ll love the ?stimulus.? Morality: For those caught up in this argument, you're just plain wrong. Every dollar taken from the taxpayer is a dollar that would have been spent (or saved) directly and freely in the economy. You assume that a private citizen is just too stupid to handle their own money. If you think only the ?rich? will pay, that?s wrong too. Everyone pays directly or indirectly as a result of deficit spending. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:28 PM, tomalling wrote: I can't add much to what others here have said, except to say that if the people at Motley Fool actually believe what this idiot has written, it's past time for me to cancel my subscription to your newsletter. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:34 PM, rmhask111 wrote: Mr. Gibbons, With all due respect, sir, this bailout is not "great." It is anything BUT great. We are moving steadily toward socialism rather than a free market economy, Perhas you should take up song writing rather than economic dissertations. After all, we can't call the USA "the Land of the FREE (and the Home of the Brave)" once we are a Socialist state, now can we?? We''ll need a new tune for that. I believe our economic system is collapsing due to a complete lack of ethics and moral behavior, especially among people in positions of pwoer The French Philosopher, Balzac, was noted for his words of wisdom two centuries ago: "Behind every vast fortune is a crime." Sound familiar to you, Congressmen? Mr. Wall Street CEO's and Bankers? Mr Madolf? Stop screwing your own country!! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:39 PM, zev88 wrote: This article makes it clear, these guys really are fools. Maybe its time the Motley Fools start reading Milton Friedman. My subscription won't go another day. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:43 PM, astronav wrote: What Capitalist System? We haven't had a true capitalist system since the ink dried on Wealth of Nations! If the author truly believes that the Bailout is Great I'd sure like to know what he's smoking and where to get some. Since all that bailout money is borrowed and the people it was loaned to are under no obligation to do anything useful for the USA with it, guess who gets to pay off those bonds. And if the author gets as rich as he thinks he will get, maybe he'd be willing to pay off all our creditors! (Ha!) If you have been badly damaged by the criminal greed and negligence of known criminals, under what strange logic would you give them even more money. If you use a thief to catch a thief, it only means you get robbed twice, and apparently are welcome to write silly articles for the Foolish News. Government! Take your hands off our economy! Right now! Now put your hands in the air and step back! Now, turn around and walk slowly away. DO NOT touch the economy again until it is healthy and strong enough to resist you! Have a peanut butter sandwich! Right now! N.B. If you are an econopath as most of you are, you must never in the future approach our economy closer that 100 miles. (Like your cousins the sociopaths and sex offenders.) Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:43 PM, clearview101 wrote: Your motto is the Educate, amuse and enrich! This article is a joke, so I guess that meets the amusement factor in the motto. Clearly there is no education provided, only poorly researched misinformation. No enrichment either, as the only people that are enriched here are the theives (read that Obama and his thugs) that will tax us more and more to pay for this Pork Barrel they are shoving down our thoats as an effort to resolve the current economic problems. If we have learned anything in our history (in other words it has been proven as true over many years) it is that the cost of the government doing anything will be greater than the cost of private industry, and the chance that it will be the wrong thing to do is an unacceptably high probability. The best thing we can do is stay off of the Obama express. He is the least qualified president in the history of the USA. His wagon isn't worth riding on. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:51 PM, montanaguy wrote: An additional note on the jet order. It was ordered 2 years in advance, and was replacing 2 older jets for a net savings of $1.0MM plus estimated 15 to 17% fuel savings. None of that was in the news. Also the flight management systems were from Honeywell in Arizona, etc... so that hurts US jobs. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:55 PM, jkyu99 wrote: You must be kidding. Are you in competition with http://www.theonion.com ? The tongue in cheek network, where if you say it boldly enough, people will believe anything? Perhaps you should mention this other story that explains what happened with Blarney Frank and Charlie Brown Schumer the Irregulators? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:02 PM, halftide wrote: Hold on to economic principles that give positive results! Here is why: There have been a series of ideologically driven mistakes over a number of years that have resulted in the present economic problem. The ideology that has brought us to this financial crisis did not predict the crisis. It came as a result of the Congress passing politically accepted ?reforms? to our financial system over the last 30 years. When you have a world view that justifies decisions that ultimately have negative results there is a problem with the world view. When it dawns on us that there is a problem, the world view must be adjusted to accommodate an explanation for the negative results and a better alternative?. if you do not wish to repeat the errors. There are two corrects that have to be accommodated in some fashion: ?Politically Correct? and what I will call ?Rigorously Correct?, both of these ?truths? have the strength to punish mercilessly. The worst case scenario is when they are at odds; the best is when they agree. There is a consensus that we are experiencing a significant world financial ?readjustment? and what we are experiencing is not good. There are two very distinct perspectives on the immediate issues. The prevailing political position realizes that there is a problem but the model that they use for their financial decisions has failed them. This statement is an unassailable, logical truth. The proof is that their view did not and does not connect the bad economic decisions in the past with the present situation. This statement can only be false if the decisions in the past were intended to harm us. The confused are operating only in the present and reacting to correlations to what was done in the past rather than taking a lesson from examination. They are astounded and confused and panicked. Their world view is therefore not grounded in sound economic principles and is unable to process what they are experiencing or suggest and accept as necessary appropriate economically sound adjustments to the policies that brought us to this place. A single political party does not own ideological control of rigorous disciplines like economics, natural sciences etc.. to suggest otherwise is lunacy. This is not about PARTIES; it is about avoiding decisions where ever they come from that have the certainty of bad results. Politically the consensus is always in charge. The consensus may make a Politically Correct decision which is not grounded in a functional world view. It is allowed! This is the equivalent of successfully voting to keep the tide out. The vote will be taken and one side will ?win? but the consequences of a non functional decision will be felt in the real world. Guaranteed! It appears as if the Congress is throwing the countries equity up into the air without a workable plan in the hopes that something will stick. This is a very bad idea that will have unbelievable (unbelievable only for those who would suggest it) consequences. Before we as a country allocate resources, we must come to some Political consensus that the world view used to justify the actions contemplated can identify the poor decisions of the past and in hind sight predict how these decisions brought us the pain that we are now experiencing. That is the simple test. Empty rhetoric to prop up a failure is not going to help us. Most people can now see this is also a truth. How do we unwind the damage we have done to ourselves if the political consensus has no understanding of how it all happened? Some economists had models that were ?Politically Incorrect? yet were rigorously correct. They were unsuccessful in garnishing consensus support but as models they were spot on correct. Ideologies are stagnant and resist evolving. These correct thoughts were defeated politically by the failed ideology at our eventual peril. As a country the ?Political Correct? and the ?Rigorously Correct? has gone very far out of sync and must come back into sync before we throw all of our hard won resources into the thin air for no good result and more likely a horrific consequence. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:08 PM, dave9c wrote: What a silly article. The reason banks are fialing is becuase the government (Barnie Frank etc.) decided to meddle in free enterprise by threatening to regulate banks if they did not begin to provide mortgages to the poor. Banks began lending to people who had no capabilty to repay, thus the mess we are in today. Capitalism works. Government forced an industry to do something unnatural, loan money to people without the means of repaying. Prior to 1994, when the Community Reinvestment Act was passed, bankers were known as the most conservative business men and woman. Now government wants to take over more industry. If you think government can perform better than private industry then so be it. However, the fact is that government is inefficient and does not have a clue about business. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:08 PM, erichwwk2 wrote: Hmm. my thoughts. Education, especially the kind obtained by watching the real world closely, how to group observations into units, and developing a track record for predicting distributions of outcomes, matters. While one can indeed create ones one reality, the danger to that is illusions have the downside that they are not lasting. If one is BOTH aware of that, AND prepared, the consequences can be painful. The problem with creating illusions is that the person most thoroughly fooled, and the least prepared when the "bubble bursts", is the creator of that illusion, Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:11 PM, wtf2009 wrote: UNSUBSCRIBE Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:12 PM, j1bird2k wrote: It is astounding how much ire and vitriol this topic exudes. This society has been sickened by the greed and self-absorbed myopia that is unrivaled on the planet. And all fueled by the incompetence of a media so rapidly heading for a crash that it never takes its eyes off the rear view mirror. We are the product of the age of hyper-entitlement and everyone of the people posting here reflect some connection to that mindset. The reality is that it will not progress without some effort and some sacrifice. Step up and take responsibility. We all played a part in the current spiral, we will all need to play one in the recovery. Start by checking your ideology at the door; last time I checked it had no caloric value. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:19 PM, bullgoose wrote: Lol - i guess there's no danger of my paying member dues. Wow. Is it even worth bothering to respond to the author? Obviously, he's not exactly a thought-leader. I'd like to hear from TMF. Seriously. They published & circulated this article. That means there's at least one person at TMF who believes the author demonstrates a grasp of the subject matter. Right? Someone read this author's submittal, thinking "Yes, this is good info. It represents the type of thinking and analysis we do here at the TMF. We believe people will read this article, be impressed with us, and pay us to dispense economic & financial commentary." Lol - I mean really? Who at TMF made the decision to publish this article? Are they actually paid? Do member fees go to paying the people who made the decision to circulate this?? Please tell us. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Zebra366 wrote: The fact that a strong economy has a strong bankig system is true. But is was a weak economy based on leveraged debt that ruined the banks and collapsed the market in the 1930's. If you dig a little deeper you will find that there was a huge speculative boom, fueled by leveraged debt, in Florida real estate just prior to the Great Depression. Sound familiar? Anyone who thinks tha you make an economy strong by trying to fix the banks must also believe that the way to make a dog happy is to move his tail back and forth real fast... If Buffet is so all-knowing, why did he lose tens of billions shorting the dollar? Why is BRK.A down 33%. Riding with Buffet can be great, but in order to really succeed you need to get of the bus one stop before he does. I agree this little essay is foolish, with a small "f". Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:31 PM, jeremydolby wrote: Pork does not equal stimulus. I'm referring to the latest "stimulus" bill, not the banking bill. Ideology for me has begun to give way to practical application of reason. Bailing out poor decision makers is not conservative choice, yet I agree that ideological beliefs are not worth the we would have (and may yet) paid. Back to the current bill, though, little of it makes sense. Unless of course you subscribe, balls to bones, to the liberal Tax & Spend philosophy of government. I think every member of congress, from both parties, needs to take a hard look at the limit of their REAL Constitutional authority and suspend all income taxes until September as suggested by the most lucid of our elected representatives. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:36 PM, firstace wrote: Come on guys; try to get over the angst! Do you really think allowing massive bank failures is the road to recovery? If so, first take a knife to your nose and see how you feel afterwards. BTW forget the political blame game; the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was by a considerable majority from both sides. The underlying problem throughout federal regulation or deregulation is the special interest groups that influence the politicians to ignore "we the people" interests. So, put your angst into political action and place your vote wisely. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:39 PM, JoshPittyTheFool wrote: The articles author has a blind spot. This lack of critical thinking is why the New York Times needs a bail out. I recommend him for the Fool layoff! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:43 PM, nouturns wrote: It is amazing how you can loose all credibility with just one article. I now grant you the same status as Alec Baldwin. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:51 PM, snm928 wrote: Who was it that screamed, "YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS..." Oh yeah, John McEnroe. This article is probably reason enough for me to stop associationg with Fools. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:51 PM, deidreeast wrote: You might want to upgrade your recommendation ratings with thumbs up and down ratings like Tivo for this article. I was expecting a highly insightful article based on the high recommendation score. After reading the comments, I recommended it too--not because of the article, but because of the brilliant comments AGAINST the article. The responsible, hard-working, thrifty Fools are tired of bailing out, propping up, rescuing every idiot around on OUR DIME! Help for those who are working two jobs to keep current on their mortgage payments? Nope! Only when you stop paying will anyone help. Got into something that you could never afford? No problem. We'll let the judges renegotiate your lending contracts. Funny, I thought the Constitution said something against laws impairing the obligation of contracts. I guess that old school document has about the usefulness of toilet paper to politicians these days (even the Constitutional Law Scholars). Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:52 PM, pmollon wrote: I was not able to read every single comment but I don't believe there has been a single word uttered about the Federal Reserve, the uncontrolled beast that has given us every single boom/bust cycle since it's inception in 1913. Although with a lot of help from any number of ill advised government "programs". Our dollar is now worth about 3 cents relative to 1913 when the Fed was created. In that year an ounce of gold would buy a nice custom tailored suit. In 2009 an ounce of gold will buy a nice custom tailored suit. There's gotta be a clue there somewhere. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Bunchadna wrote: I signed up for Foolishness, not silliness. I recommend you add Amity Shlaes's "The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression" to your reading list. I can forgive your lack of understanding of just how little the New Deal accomplished vis-a-vis remedying the Great Depression - we've been fed that warmed over gruel for 70 years now. How thin indeed it has turned out to be. What I can't easily forgive is your investigative sloppiness which is betrayed by you giving cover to that monstrous, out of control, drunken spending binge the Congress is attempting to embark on. There is very little in that bill that can honestly be termed stimulative. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:59 PM, SpectreStew wrote: This insipid article is so un-Foolish. The author fails to include any data contrary to that which supports his predetermined support of the bill. See how easy it is to cherry pick data to support an idea. Does he even realize there are numerous, well respected analyses of how FDR's actions extended the depression? Why did I get this as the lead story in a Fool email? I don't need this kind of junk coming to my in-box, OK? I suspect that many of those who clicked on "recommend this article" thought there would be a "thumbs down" option. I hesitated thinking it would not be prudent to possibly "recommend it" by accident. Please, someone post a counter-column to this rhetoric. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:02 PM, Jermce96 wrote: What the author fails to mention is that it wasn't government intervention by FDR that had an "impressive" impact it was the WAR!!! The government didn't spend our way out of the depression we PRODUCED our way out due to the massive increases in war related manufacturing and other jobs. The government only slowed down the process then and it will surely delay our recovery now. Wake up America... the government doesn't make money... WE THE PEOPLE DO! The government doesn't need to spend anything... it needs to create positive incentives for increased productivity. Tax Cuts always create more revenue for the Federal Government because they have a direct effect on the productivity of our businesses. It's very simple actually... don't spend a dime... just create positive incentive to individuals and businesses and they will increase their productivity and create jobs and there will be more tax dollars to spend. The government created this problem through intervention in the lending industry... if they will get out of the way the healing can begin. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:03 PM, nicho91 wrote: Your article makes you a shill for ridiculous PORK. Who pays for that? And at what inflation rate? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:04 PM, basiceconomics wrote: I'm sorry, but this article is pathetic. When I first starting getting into business, I was economically ignorant, so I didn't notice issues such as this. But since studying the dismal science for the past 12 years, I am utterly amazed and disappointed on how many executives and financial 'experts' are blind when it comes to the laws of economics. Maybe too many years of Keynesian education? I haven't figured out the root of it, but to believe that we need more money infused into our system and more regulation is asinine and completely illogical. Those are the two main things that have gotten us into this mess. The first mistake this author makes is believing we live in a capitalist system here in the USA. Not since at least 1913, when the Federal Reserve was formed, is that true. We now live in a corporatist system, which is very close to fascism. No company, large or small, would have any power over any of us without the interference of the State via regulations, tariffs, subsidies, monopoly-grants, etc. And we certainly would not be in the financial mess if we didn't have the Federal Reserve and a fiat currency. Do people realize our money is backed by nothing but air from politicians? If that doesn't scare you, I'm not sure what would. In a true capitalist system, i.e. true free-market (not NAFTA or the WTO) trades would ONLY occur when both parties believed they were getting something better in return than what they are giving up, at that particular moment in time. That would include trading money for a car or food or a tv set, or an employer and employee trading money for productivity. These are all simple trades that should be voluntary and only involve the parties who are doing the trading! This is what is referred to as the Subjective Theory of Value, and it's no longer a theory btw. Contrast this with what we have, wage controls, price caps, monopoly grants, farm subsidies, bank bailouts, tariffs, regulations, protectionism/mercantilism, etc. It is insane. All I can advise is to not store dollars, as they are about to fall off a cliff. You will need cash to survive, so always have some physically in your possession (not in bank), but also have gold and silver. And as far as investing, think NON-DOLLAR assets. People should stop believing this is just another little recession, this one is major and you should prepare yourselves. Most Americans have never seen anything like what is about to come to our shores. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:08 PM, PolarBearCrisis wrote: This bailout is horrible and destructive. If you don't like capitalism, move to a Socialist or Communist Country. If businesses fail, let them fail. The market will fix things. The government will destroy things and give itself power to destroy more. The United States has been #1 for 200 years...as a Capitalist country. By the way, Citigroup and AIG FUNDED President Obama....so in reality, Obama won this election on BAILOUT MONEY...he is only trying to pay them back....and neither he nor the banks care about what happened to the country. The only way to solve the problem is to LET THEM GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Then maybe Americans will go after those who caused the problem like FRANKLIN RAINES, BARNEY FRANK and CHRIS DODD who were all IN CHARGE OF FANNIE MAE AND THE BANKS...they should be HUNG IN PUBLIC but instead, Americans are so brainwashed by the media that they re-elected them....WOW...DISGUSTING and IGNORANT Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:13 PM, toddsnotafool wrote: Well, Mr. Gibbons, I think the opinion is out on this one. Thank you for at least drawing the line in the sand for us. If anyone thinks this is a good thing, then they (and you) just don't get it; and they (and you) need their short term eyesight checked. This "bailout" has been a set up for a long time and will turn into the most catastrophic government intervention in history of this country, if not the world. Have you actually read this American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009? You can find it on the senate.gov website; they're on revision H.R.1.AS right now. Take a look at it, it may amaze and disgust you. And let me know when you finish reading it all. It is a lobbyist's and regulator dream world. This isn't a bailout for banks; it's giant move to the land of collectivism with a wide open door for theives for years and years to come. It has the potential destroy our "free market" completely. And don't talk about food on my shelves as long as we have "farm subsidies". If my studies in history and in economics has given me any knowledge, then I know this is bad, not good, and certainly not great (unless you're a friend of a D.C. insider). FDR didn't do us any favors either. But lucky for us (economically speaking), this isn't 1929. Our world is quite a bit different now; a bit faster. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:20 PM, SpectreStew wrote: I have asked TMF to either put forth a retraction (for having sent this out via email with the subject of the email titled "This Bailout is Great!), or to cancel my account. Putting this article out in such an email, and in the subject block was in my opinion irresponsible. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:24 PM, mmarler3 wrote: Completely lost in all of the comment about the present bailout package is that much of it contains new, or expansions of entitlement programs, which will entail ANNUAL increases in spending of hundreds of billions of dollars. The initial cost of the bailout is the tip of the iceberg. The individual who suggested that we give Obama time had it right: Thirty years at hard labor. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:24 PM, joeGuitar wrote: Sorry, I couldn't disagree more with this post. Even IF I agreed that the govt could and should stimulate the economy via spending, this bailout has a staggering amount of pork. Keep the money and centralized power out of the hands of the few, .... that's the thing that IMHO really caused the housing and banking house of cards to collapse last fall. Fool on, -- Joe Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:27 PM, MissMoe wrote: Am I in the twilight zone? I agree with a number of comments that say the article was one of the worst from Motley. But then again remember no one is making money in the investment world with articles etc. Why? Because no one is investing, resulting in little or no commissions, and advisors realize their invesments which they took a bath on, won't go back up until America bails out everyone..... Yep there was a blip on the market today but that has been the same since the beginning of the year. In one day out the next. I'm glad there are still some people out there that realize this bailout as written is robbing the hardworking American. Taking from those who have and giving to those who don't want to do a thing for a living. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:31 PM, rosym wrote: Some above have noted that the New Deal failed to cause real recovery; that the massive spending for WWII is what did the trick. (example, see Kent1941's comment on Jan. 30 at 5:32 PM) I've read economists recently who make the same point, and for that reason think the stimulus bill will fail because it is too SMALL. I've yet to hear an explanation why war spending, basically making things that will in short order blow up or be blown up leads to fixing the economy. What about the WWII spending was better for capitalism than New Deal spending? Why did it work? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:35 PM, jbmetrics wrote: I am amazed that after literally hundreds of comments that NO ONE pointed out solutions to what caused the real problem in the first place; oversupply! It was the over building of houses based on speculative real estate development that led to over 2 million new vacant homes on the market back as early as 2006. It was last years over production of millions of cars with no demand that has hit the automakers, and it was the over extending and offering of credit to credit risks (I remember as a college grad 20 years ago trying to get a $200 credit card was difficult, but last year, a teenager could get a $2000 credit card!) that caused the problems for banks. I was told by a wise man once, "there are two banks you bank with, one that loans you money and the one you put your money with, for the one that loaned you the money isn't worth taking the risk to put you money with" This wise man was a banking executive for a major bank that is currently still standing. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:35 PM, floppydog2 wrote: Fools -- your credibility has been severely tarnished by your blind acceptance of eurosocialism as preached by the current legislative majority - and President. How sad. I had hoped you would stand up and fight for the Jeffersonian principles that made our "experiment" the greatest country on earth, but then perhaps you have thrown in the towel because Capitalism is indeed dead. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:37 PM, RobertNYC wrote: The Fools have been drinking the Kool Aid - anybody who reads the papers know that the average person got screwed with the bailout. Our tax dollars are going to finance the bonuses and parties for the investment banks. The crooks cooked up a bunch of subprime securities that are now worthless and ran their banks into the ground (after putting millions inot their own pockets over the years). Next time somebody says that we have to pay salaries of millions of dollars to get good people to work at the company point out how these over priced idiots ran their banks into the ground. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:40 PM, til76 wrote: Oops !! That's what you get for skipping your history classes. The one thing that brought the US out of the depression was World War II. Roosevelt did nothing constructive and his Smoot-Hawley was a disaster of giant proportions. The only thing this abortion of a stimulus bill does is make certain liberal commentators feel all warm and cozy while it mortgages our great-grandchildren's future and does darned little to create real, read that to mean PRIVATE SECTOR jobs. More government- come on now. Who is that stimulating ?? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:42 PM, MrBear100 wrote: "The results of Government intervention were impressive." Like 17-22% unemployment for a decade! What do you think we haven't read the Forgotten Man - the 'Bama Adminstartion hasn't taken it off the shelves yet. Socilaism has never worked in any shape or form ANYWHERE ANYTIME - I'm outta here, you brainwashed FOOLS Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:44 PM, tomjbv wrote: you Fools are most certainly living up to your name...why??? you Fools don't remember what really happened in the Depression....when given jobs in the WPA/CCC many men had to be broken away from their families to live in conditions that were just above the level of Nazi Consentration Camps to get to where FDR Created work....this was true even for those who had work that was fairly local as transportation was really not available to get the workers back and forth to where the their actual home was....I do see readers taking the for front in rememding you "Fools" that when my father got wacked @ Pearl Harbour while serving his country[ my father had the movie "From Here to Eternity" written about his heroic exploits during the attack while he was awaiting his leaving Hawaii and his work in the Pacific and Asia as he was finally going home for only the 2nd time in 12 years of service...he was shipping out to go home on Dec. 8, 1941]......Fools....I'll make one suggestion.....for you all to go back to school and learn what really happened in one of the darkest periods of US History[namely the Depression which was only out done but WW1, the Civil War and our Revolution] and to stop drinking the "Mad left wing socialist Kool Aid you've been drinking......from one who grew up learning the lessons of The Great Depression....you see my father survived it and did well in times were not so good including his heroics during the WW2 fight against Fascism and then Communism.......Tom V. in Coventry, Rhode Island.....which stinks with leftist/socialist Democrats just like you Fooooooooools !!!!!!!! thanks but no thanks for Non Advice Foooooooooools !!!!!!!!!!! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:47 PM, dtbrown33 wrote: Your "bottom line" is always predictable i. e. send us money and we will tell you what to do! After you analysis?? of the bailout package, who, in their right mind would follow your advice??? Congress I guess. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Kensdumb wrote: This guy should go live in DC where his views will coincide with the current socialist looters there. FDR's "bailout" in the 30s didn't work, but prolonged the agony until the country was bailed out by WW2 - 9 years. I sure don't want to have agony till 2018 and be bailed out by WW3. I lived through the depression of the 30s and WW2 and believe me it was ugly! The only difference between FDR and BHO is one was a white socialist from NY and the other is a black socialist from Chicago. Not enough difference to spit on! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:56 PM, curlydude42 wrote: The only way that the stimulus will work is if as "Road to war" book said America goes to war with the nation holding the majority of our assets. Germany owned many factories until we went to war with them and took their assets. So in this case, we go to war with China after they buy our notes. USA declares their claim to our assets as null and we are good to go. By the way, please refrain from sending opinion to my email. Has fool become a Obama tool? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:59 PM, jeffduby wrote: The idea of a "bank bailout" is the most rediculous concept I've heard to date. We have not bailed out the banks, or even come close to doing so. We have not even appropriated enough money to cover the bad sub prime debt. We are still going to have to bear the brunt of the Alt-A's collapse, the commercial real estate collapse, and the derivative house of cards that go with them. The banks are all going under because we simply can not print enough money to bail them out. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:59 PM, branchre wrote: As JPerryE said. BS. Like haluli, I have gone over the bill in as much detail as I can and find little that is good. Most is open season for the vultures who are already salivating at all this money available to them, and few are thinking jobs. FDR was not successful with his new deal Everything he did was not wrong but many things were. I was old enough that entire period to see the waste........the symbol of WPA was a man asleep leaning on a shovel, for good reason. My dirt poor subsistance farm family was proud that we never took any of the handouts, and I consider myself blessed that they had that attitude and instilled it in me. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:02 PM, RedneckEconomist wrote: After reading this article, I am seriously considering cancelling my subscription to Motley Fools. Folks, we are in DEEP TROUBLE. Everyone is looking around pointing figures at the greed, lavish lifestyles, seemingly inept leadership in both the private and public sectors. Well, my opinion says we should look at the stupidity of the Federal Reserve Board. When the economy was booming in 1999-2000, Greenspan started raising the Fed Funds Rate (FRR) from the 4-5 pt range to 9-10 pt range starting in 2000 through the middle of 2001. Then 911. Economy went to the dogs. Greenspan then says, "we overacted and lower the FRR to 1% by the end of 2002. The FRR stayed a 1% until the current geniuses took over and "fearing inflation" raised the FRR from 1 to 5% from Jan, 2006 thru June, 2008. Anyone that took Eco 101 in college knows that the law of interest is like the law of gravity. When rates go up, the value of long-term negotiable securities goes down. When rates go down, the value of the LTNS's goes up. Well, mortgages are LTNS. So, all those loans (good or bad) made in 2002-2006 and there were several trillion $ worth, were automatically devalued on the balance sheets of all finanicals when the Fed started raises rates in 2006. We also know that if the rate goes from say 8% to 12% that's a 50% increase. When rates go from 1% to 5% that's a 500% increase. The mark to market accounting method required every financial to devalue those portfolios. So, what did the Fed do? OH! NO! we need a bailout!!! We need to lower the FRR to 0%. With the FRR at 0% my friends. No one in their right mind would enter into a long-term contract because the minute the Fed's start to raise the FRR the security will be devalued. The FRR now has put this economy in the deepest hole we have been EVER!!!! No amount of spending will ever change that! The Fed needs to raise the FRR to about 3%; Congress needs to abolish or limit the requirement for mark-to-market accounting; and the government needs to get out trying to own our strongest companies. Stockholders need to also take a stance against the greed, lavish lifestyle and leadership of our publicly held companies. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:02 PM, invsblcity wrote: While I think most if not everyone agrees that improving the economy and solving the banking system problems are essential, what is proffered here is nothing but idle speculation and hyperbole. This article has a multitude of inaccuracies, and lots of bold statements not supported by any fact, research, or commonly accepted wisdom. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:02 PM, jeffduby wrote: by the way, the worlds richest man became the world's richest man through collecting management fees and special deals obtained through back room agreements, not by investing in common stock like you're telling us poor saps to do. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:03 PM, MONEY1977 wrote: Interesting clip about Federal Reserve and the Banking Institution... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ Very Conspiracy driven... but who knows?? I put nothing past the govt.. Whole Movie... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHhc67GopM I dont believe half the stuff in this film but I thought the banking thing seemed interesting considering all thats happened as of late.. Check it out.. Id like to hear others opinions. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:15 PM, wfread2001 wrote: I think Sen John Thune from SD has a great idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aumWZEYnSY&feature=chann... 9 page amendment that gives the money to taxpayers. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:16 PM, fallensparrow wrote: I couldn't even finish this vomit filled drivel. Seriously?! Are you talking about bailing out Execs that squandered their assests on bad debts?! Really?! It's like giving the keys to your car to an alcoholic. Mr. Gibbons should not be allowed to write any further articles for this organization. He has proven to not understand free market systems. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ARTS100MP wrote: I agree with the comments of the majority of the Fools. The bailout is nothing more than the Federal government reaching out to enforce socialism ala Obama. He is not an economist, but he did organize a neighborhood once! NO to the bailout.... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:30 PM, secjd wrote: An awful lot of the posters on this blog seem ready to throw all of the blame on the banks' executives; but what about all of the irresponsible consumers who took loans they couldn't afford in order to be able to live beyond their means? Personally, I'd a thousand times sooner see my tax dollars go to keep my bank afloat so my savings don't get wiped out by a bank failure than I would see them go towards rewarding millions of consumers for being irresponsible by bailing them out of their mortgages. Noone forced them to take these mortgages. I, who live in a small, rent stabilized apartment should now pay for their McMansions? I say, let them go broke! As for suggestions that consumers be given the money on the condition that they use it to pay down their debts, this may sound good, but it's rather naive; how do you ensure that they actually do so? It would be an administrative nightmare, if not an administrative impossibility. The main problem with the bailout is lack of controls, primarily because Hank Paulson (who should be thrown in jail) refused to accept any. So, it was conducted in the same manner as so many other relief and other efforts undertaken over the past 8 years; money was simply thrown around hastily and chaotically without much concern for where it went. As for the New Deal, to say that we got nothing for it is hogwash; the entire Tennessee Valley had been a giant swamp before the New Deal. Scores of important infrastructure projects were funded by the New Deal. Now, thanks to years of neglect, first by liberal Democrats who spent all the money on social welfare programs and the Viet Nam war and then by Repubicans who spent it on tax cuts and the Iraq war, our infrastructure is crumbling beneath our feet. How would you like to be driving home from work one night and havw the bridge you're driving across fall into the river, along with you? This has already happened in the Twin Cities and threatens to happen in many more. Like it or not, folks, the stimulus package is badly needed - it just needs to be spent in the right places. Oh, and one last thing about the New Deal: the banks had already been allowed to fail and collapse, and there was also this little thing called the Dustbowl, which ravaged most of our farmland - both complicating factors which contributed to the prolonged Depression. A partner of mine tells me that years ago, under IRS regulations, if a public company paid its executives too much, the company would lose its tax deduction for the excessive pay. This was repealed when the tax code was overhauled back in the 1980s; it should be reinstated. Furthermore, the bankruptcy law should be restored to its pre-2005 state to enable those who are drowning in debt to file. To say that "hopefully, consumers will have learned their lesson" is hopelessly naive; however, if they go through bankruptcy, they won't be able to spend like drunken sailors anymore, at least for some 5-10 years - and there should be strict regulations limiting the amount of credit which can be extended to consumers who have filed for bankruptcy within the past 10 years. Glass-Steagall should be reinstated, and the government should not be able to keep interest rates artificially low, and consumers feeling a false sense of security, by manipulating the inflation numbers for political expediency (for example, taking energy and transportation out of the equation in the 1970s because of the first oil crisis, then the Bush administration's taking food out of the equation because prices began to soar). Lastly, regulators should do precisely that - REGULATE - not argue for ever more deregulation and fail or refuse to enforce whatever is left in place. This means that those appointed to head our Federal agencies should believe in those agencies and in the regulations they were formed to enforce and administer - they should not be a bunch of industry lobbyists who don't like or believe in regulation. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:32 PM, lethalvb01 wrote: After reading the article and all of the comments I simply did not learn anything. I have to agree with the fact that the bailout plan simply will not work as a long term solution. If our financial sector crashes then people should just squat in there houses and fight against people who try to throw them out. There was a comment in the middle somewhere that said, "The federal reserve and all central banks are a scam". The very fact that money is simply printed and is stamped with a value NOT in proportion to any gold standard or goods and services created from labor tells it all right there. This fractional reserve system truly has us all enslaved. It enslaves us because we all collectively believe paper money has value. So if that is the case then all comes down to how many people are convinced of something. Now as far as this article being propaganda, that is true also. I imagine The Motley Fool itself has a large stake in financial stocks which is why they would want to use their persuasive writing power to convince their readers to go with this plan because they may be hurting right now. Keep in mind, this is an investment advice website. They are trying to give you good investment advice in the form of products, their newsletters. They use persuasive writing all the time to try to sell you their products just like every other business in the world. It doesn't make them crooks. I have to say, they write pretty awesome sales pitches than many other companies I've seen. So overall, I say be personally financially responsible for your own stuff and don't waste all of your money on worthless things. Stop humping the American dream and start living down here on Earth. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:41 PM, fallensparrow wrote: I don't think we should bail out the consumers either. But they didn't put a gun to head of any bank exec and tell them to write a shaky loan! The banks screwed up. The customers screwed up. That's why we have Bankrupcy courts. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:47 PM, EricTheBald wrote: FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate Here, read for yourself: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonge... Also, the REASON for this depression can be laid at the feet of the Community Reinvestment Act. And dont forget Barney Frank's brilliant stonewalling of every attempt to regulate Fannie & Freddie. My God people.... Even George W Bush, who was NOT an economic conservative by any stretch of the imagination; tried to warn us. Google "New York Times September 11 2003". You dont even have to use a more specific string than that. THAT string will bring up the article, usually in the first result. And you know how much money we're going to waste? Add the ill-advised $750m bailout from last fall, to the current one that is looking to top a Trillion, add in the interest, and VIOLA!: You waste so much money that it would be the EQUIVALENT of simply refunding ALL of the IRS revenues for 2008. And you want to argue that this is a good idea...? Look, I was born AT night. Not LAST night. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:47 PM, KayG2008 wrote: Wow, makes me rethink getting my investment advice from here... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:48 PM, EricTheBald wrote: Me too Kay. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:22 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: Wow, it's great to see so many passionate Fools here! I'd just want to make a few points: 1) This article is about the bailout, not the stimulus plan. If you are opposed to the stimulus that's fine, but it's not the same thing. 2) You may not agree with every TMF article you read. I know I don't. Heck, I even published one last week whose conclusions I strongly disagreed with. But I didn't telephone my author to call him names. Let's be civil. 3) If you do disagree with this article, one way to voice that disagreement would be to offer some constructive alternatives in the comments box. I hate having to bail out banks too and believe we should clawback/fire/jail as many people as is appropriate, but the fact remains that the financial system and perhaps capitalism would have failed if we allowed these companies to go under. The FDIC has around $85 billion to insure all of our nation's deposits. WaMu alone had twice that figure. So, if you have a different solution, let's hear it. Ilan (Rich's editor) Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:22 PM, jolyroger28 wrote: Either Mr. Gibbons is a socialist in sheep's clothing or just plain naive. His assertion that regulation is needed to guard against irrational bank management is short sighted. One of the foundations of capitalism is the link the board of directors plays between the management and shareholders. Unfortunately this link has been broken by government laws protecting investors from their own recklessness, and laws favoring boards and management over shareholders. Just ask Carl Ichan, I'm sure he would agree with my last point. The government takes away the ability of shareholders to hold management and directors responsible, and now that the results have come to roost people are being fooled that whats needed is more government control. We've let the government take away investors rights, and are now fooled into believing whats needed is more government regulation to take away the risk they've exposed us to. Just ask why congress questioned the CEO's but not the actual directors who approved the pay? Could it be because boards have provided retired bureaucrats with opportunities? The laws that protect the management and boards are also largely driven by their fear of being taken over or broken up, so had the laws not been there maybe being taken over or broken up by private money would happen more often and we would have never been in a position to say they are too big to fail. I have suspicions that Buffet's support for this "socialist" managed economy may be less than sincere due to Berkshire's involvement in the financial industry. And besides, Buffet advises people invest in what they know, and who can honestly say they know how these banks make their money! People have to step up to the plate and take responsibility for their investments, including who they choose to invest with and even do business with...and quit leaving it up to government to mitigate the risk for them. Deny these irresponsible corporations, boards, and CEO's your investing dollars, and other business you do with them as well.....only deal with responsible people you Fools!! Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:23 PM, piinob wrote: It is obvious most of the folks here are clueless. Too much Fox Not enough study. Good article repeating truth that needs to be heard above the din of the children. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:32 PM, tvuh wrote: how ridiculous. and this gets published? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:34 PM, laughtrack wrote: Repeal the Reagan tax cuts. Some of you folks need a history lesson from a valid source, rather than the right wing noise machine because your ignorance is appalling. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:36 PM, jolyroger28 wrote: "It is obvious most of the folks here are clueless. Too much Fox Not enough study. Good article repeating truth that needs to be heard above the din of the children." What a well thought out response! I guess it is easier to just blindly follow than educate yourself. P.S. I don't even have Fox, I work a blue collar job, pay a crap load of taxes, use nest to no government services, get no government handouts....and most importantly....educate myself beyond what the politicians and bureaucrats tell me. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:41 PM, claregwentworth wrote: Tom recently promised to do more reading and hopefully he will start by what really caused this meltdown. It wasn't a lack of government intervention, but an excess of it. Back in the late nineties the admin and congress were pressuring bank to loan to more people and they gave fannie and freddie the assignment to buy these mortgages even if they didn't meet their criteria. Before that banks knew better than to loan to people who were not good risks. But along came government backed Fannie and Freddie who were instructed and incenivized to buy smelly paper. The banks did the obvious thing and wrote smelly mortgages and sold them to F & F at a profit. When Barney Franks was questioned on this during an administration and congressional effort to correct this dangerous and eventually disastrous situation in about 2006 he was outraged and leapt to the defense of F & F saying that they were doing a terrific job and not doing anything that wasn't sound business so they kept buying smelly paper and the banks kept selling it to them. Coincidentally Barney Franks were receiving huge (6 figure) contibutions from F & F. If the government hadn't pushed for this siutation this wouldn't have ever happened. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:51 PM, 9640 wrote: There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it is a very effective economic system for distributing capital and goods However it does not safeguard us against those who manage it. Wall Street and our financial leadership were driven by greed and short term benefit to their compensation packages. Our regulatory watchdogs were incompetent, lazy or both. Our Congress, guardians of the people's interests, were bought off. So we the sheep that repeatedly elect them will pay the price of whatever they decide to do for the benefit of their constituents (read those with checkbooks) and eventually we the working class, our children and grandchildren will pay.They, of course, will be retired in their clubs and on the golf courses bemoaning the high taxes. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:02 PM, miaaway wrote: I know are law makers think were inept,maybe they should read some of these comments it might open there eyes.If the motley fools think this is a great bailout, they might be the ones who are inept. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:11 PM, ReillyDiefenbach wrote: Well, it appears that the majority of the right wing nuts who populate the threads here at Motley Fool are ready to scamper lemminglike over the cliff of free market capitalist dogma. How did the free market work out for ya,guys? Oh, it's the minorities' fault?Well, guess what, geniuses, you've had your shot, and the nation isn't buying your self-serving drivel any more. You're fired. Alan Greespan, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Robert Rubin, Phil Gramm,Henry Paulson, all you selfish characters are gone as of this coming week. You've failed utterly and completely. You're done, finished, finito, hit the bricks and never open your pie holes again as long as you live. And another thing. Anyone who uses the word socialism as a pejorative should be compelled, Clockwork Orange style to sit through a slow bus tour of France and Sweden with their eyes clamped open, just two of the possible societies available to us should we ever have the brains to free ourselves from the yoke of big business. Countries where the roads are kept in perfect order, where just about the only fat, undulating bovines are behind the pasture fence, where health care is universal and COMPLETE, not only if you don't get very sick. Understand folks, there is no such thing as a financially catastrophic illness in either of those countries. It's called a social comtract. You say your kid has to take out a loan for 50 thousand a year to go to law school? How about zero in Canada if you're not wealthy? Sound like a deal? No? You'd rather give more money to the top one percent? Nah. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:14 PM, crawlfish wrote: I think that this is one of the best times in my life to invest in stocks and finally I have the ability to take advantage of it. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:39 PM, jfklekotka wrote: perhaps the fools are actually in charge! The bailout is not a good thing. American taxpayers are footing the bill. Nowhere in the Constitution does it allow for such behavior. The taxpayer is a servant to the government. This must change and the only way I foresee change coming is by revolution. Time is running out. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:48 PM, ejohnson343 wrote: Yeah great advice "buy in value now" yes my advisor totally whiffed a year ago November as well with "great fundamentals" "favorable environment" "shallow bottom" "V recovery" etc... I bailed myself out at (15%) contrary to 99% of advisers group sheep advice to stay all in while they followed each other to the slaughter house with other people's money. Sorry but you and your peers credibility is now hovering around Al Gore levels. My adviser has since been fired and I have come to realize if you want it done right "do it yourself"; that does sound familiar. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:51 PM, sfrookie wrote: To TMFDiogenes: This article WAS about the stimulus, not just the bailout. What else could the author be referring to in the section about the "New Deal"? Combine that with the timing of this article, and it is clear that this author is right in lock step with the president and democratic congress on this thing. It's a bit frustrating to have to read this stuff from a company I give money to. TMF seems to pride itself in independent thought, to a fault sometimes. You loose credibility when you allow people to author articles who show political bias - not to mention a complete ignorance of recent history. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Ross3408 wrote: Mr. Gibbons opines on a subject about which he demonstrates little knowledge. I humbly suggest that he spend an hour or two at least skimming the writings of the late, great Milton Friedman. Of note also is, "The House of Morgan," by Ron Chernow. Our nation's crisis, IN ITS ENTIRETY, has been created and fed by the federal government to allow it gains in dominion over free markets and to assist re-election bids by the party now in power. Very few members of Congress understand even rudimentary economic theory or finance. Nearly all of those members are trial lawyers, schooled in the business of fleecing the deepest pockets available and little else. Their only interests are self-enrichment and re-election. To paraphrase Henry Kaiser's famous quote: "Over the long term, a nation gets exactly the government it deserves." As of now, we deserve no better than what we tolerate. Ross3408 Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 9:19 PM, mechawonton wrote: I am just not sure that this particular bailout is all that great. We could be well on our way to learn a new lesson come 2020. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 9:22 PM, vbguy78 wrote: Suggest changing your name to "Obama Fool". Note that Daley in Chicago has refused to name the pork barrel projects he is funding under the "stimulus". Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Taxinator wrote: I'm very disappointed that TMF included this thread/story in its newsletter. I'm out. I'm going to cancel my membership. When you start endorsing top-down central planning (a la Roosevelt and Obama plans) over free market capitalism, you lose all credibility in my mind. If you'd simply prefaced or rationalized the comments by saying that "the people" feel that way or that "the market" is based on these over-simplified sentiments about the current economic situation and we should invest based on that misinformed milieu, then I might give you a pass. But to support outright nationalization of private industry and socialism/fascism/authoritarianism as an acceptable approach to economic woes is unacceptable. Goodbye. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 9:56 PM, mouse54 wrote: Those who believe socialism is a great concept can always move to a socialist country. Those of us who prefer capitalism should not be forced to surrender our rights. As to the bailout, the only way the government gets money is to take it from working people or to borrow it. I am willing to bet that our government does not have the 800 - 900 billion dollars the current bill requires sitting around in a bank account, given the current debt that they carry, so they will need to borrow it. Adding approximately one trillion to the debt, even if it does serve to stimulate the economy in the short term, results only in larger debt, more taxes required to pay the debt, and, therefore, less discretionary income for the taxpayers over the long term. In short, the bailout/stimulus package will ensure that less money is available throughout the economy in the future. As someone else noted, the best way to stimulate the economy is to give the money to a large portion of the American population. It is the people who make the economy work, through investment and spending. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:08 PM, rdhalste wrote: Those citing the Citybank jet as an example of poor spending haven't done their home work. First, the jet had been on order for several years and required a healthy down payment...LOST Second: They had two Falcon 900s to sell and even at the present depressed market that was $4 million more than the cost of the new jet. Third: The new jet would have come with a warranty that would have eliminated costly maintenance for several years. Fourth: They would have needed one less full time crew on call. Fifth: There were penalties that probably ran into several million for canceling the order. So, here we have a good case where spending money is saving a LOT of money, but public and government's *misguided* perception cost CityBank millions of dollars to make it look like the government forced them to stop spending. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:08 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: sfmrookie, The reason I'm reminding everyone that this is an article about the bailout rather than the stimulus is because the timing is confusing. Less than 200 words of a 1000 word essay were about the new deal. The rest was about the bailout. That means that the vast majority of comments calling Richard a socialist aren't only mistaken, but missing the whole thrust of the article. Now, if we want to accuse basically every economist from Greenspan to Buffett to Volcker to Roubini and politician from Obama to Bush of being a "socialist" because they know that TARP in some form or another is necessary to save our financial system, fine. But please, before another person accuses Richard of being a socialist, stop. Then decide a) were Bush, Paulson, and Bernanke who took temporary positions in banks, and Obama/Geithner, who are buying assets from banks, all socialists for doing so, and b) have you drawn up a different solution to restoring the solvency of our nation's banking system? Because if you have, your country needs to hear it. If not, then you, like Richard and basically every economist, recognizes the ugly necessity of TARP. Thanks everyone for the lively discussion, Ilan Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:09 PM, Abraxas365 wrote: On December 21, 2007, Motley Fool said Warren Buffett did not believe the subprime lending mess posed a grave danger to the U.S. economy. Please see "Buffett's Subprime Bets" in Foolwatch Weekly Digest. So much for the Oracle's expertise in where all this is headed. And if you guys actually believe Obama's energy policy will create 3 million new jobs, you must have been hitting that bong with Michael Phelps. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:11 PM, CapitalistPig01 wrote: The author makes an interesting comment without siting a source as though it were common knowledge. It's not common to me, so I thought I'd ask. What evidence is there that the bank failures are the result of "bad investments" that would be any different than investments that would have been made if "Glass Steagall" had not been repealed. My pointless is, Ronald Reagan is and always will be right when he said, "The answer to our problem is not more Government. More Government IS our problem." All you Reaganites out there, feel free to correct the accuracy of my quote... I know it's close, but probably not word for word. In the end, Barny Frank and his lackies created this mess and he (read the government) need to clean it up... or at least keep the bank failures from killing the economy. Once we're back on our feet again, finding way's to keep the Government out of our business will be the order of the day once again. Unfortunately, that seems to be a dying paradigm. For the last 30 years we've been teaching our kids from Kindergarden through MBA that socialism is the answer to all our problems. Whomever the sage was that reminded us that we get the government we deserve, was only too right. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:29 PM, estate1997 wrote: If you don't like the way this package is going, be in line at your bank with me Monday morning. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:29 PM, eugenevos wrote: Obama wants to create 5 mln jobs, really? Did you do the math (including Obama) how many jobs will be created per day? It's 3,424 jobs for each day of his 4-year presidency! Stimulus bill will help? You right! See this simple illustration of how it will "help": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEDIyztZGBA Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:34 PM, sfrookie wrote: TMFDiogenes (Ilan), Sorry if I was misunderstood. I didn't call Richard a Socialist. I don't think he is anymore than I think any of the people you mention are. I just think his article was misguided. And I think it is clear that he thinks "these government interventions will pave the road to recovery." I, along with many others, am really concerned about the level of involvement of the government in this whole thing. I think that we are a selfish, self-centered lot who are unwilling to "take our medicine", and therefore are looking to government to take care of us now, to the detriment and burden of those who come after us. Steve Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:36 PM, BoctorBill wrote: I am not very happy about this particular bailout. If the money went to consumers in the form of vouchers for paying mortgages off, that would be something. Everybody wins. There is no reason that this should have happened any other way. This would be trickle up money that would be forced to trickle up, because there would be only one path it could travel. Only in our bizarro American society could direct, unchecked money to these financial corporations be considered a better idea. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:46 PM, rosym wrote: This discussion is on a third grade Rush Limbaugh level. I also might resign from the fool, not over anger at Mr. Gibbons, but rather at the realization that the vaunted fool community is populated by... fools. I guess I can't say I wasn't warned. The policies in such high regard here are very true to the policies of George Bush. Have you noticed that these policies have not worked out to our collective benefit? What makes you think it will work better if we keep doing it? I'm curious; how do you folks explain this conundrum: Clinton balanced the budget and created jobs. Then Bush cut taxes and stifled regulation and the economy fell apart? You keep saying read history. I don't think most of the commenters here have even read a newspaper. I'm not saying high taxes are an answer. I'm saying that it is not that simple. These are dangerous times, and you'd best be careful not to march too tightly to Rush's behind. The guy is an idiot. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:09 PM, fremmons wrote: If you think you have a suggestion about a petroleum industry supplier then I hope it is a short sale recommendation. I have been an oil and gas professional since 1976. Oil companies world wide are CUTTING their capital budgets with LONG KNIVES. We are probably looking at low crude oil and gas prices for at least a year and maybe up to three years, unless Wall Street starts speculating in crude again like mid 2008, or if the Iranians or Russians make a destabilizing move on the world political stage. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:25 PM, whoozyourdaddy wrote: rosym, In answer to your question: READ HISTORY. "For our collective benefit..."? Look around, I think you're in the wrong neighborhood. Clinton DIDN'T balance the budget, Congress (a Republican majority at that) did. Clinton does get credit for taking time off from Monica to sign the bill. The Bush tax cuts helped the economy, if you recall we were in a recession in 2002-2003, preceeded by the attacks on Sept 11, 2001 and the dot.com bubble collapse. The current mess is because of the housing market. You can thank Barney Frank and Chris Dodd for that one. In fact, if you want to narrow down just when the economy went to crap, you might look around 2006. That's when the Democrats took control of Congress. 4$/gallon gas soon followed. Considering Rush is definitely above you in the smarts department, I would have to ask: If he's an idiot, what does that make you? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:30 PM, starmomhome wrote: Oh please! What a stupid article! How long can we keep feeding the cow her own milk? Where do you think this "bailout" money is coming from? This article definately lowers my opinion of the Motley Fool. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Wanderer13 wrote: ReillyDiefenbach, TMFDiogenes and all the other socialists would do well to remember; this "stimulus" bill tries to pick winners and losers. In the "winners" column are ACORN, the NEA, and various other Democratic party favorites and causes. In the "losers" column are all the rest of us. All of this has been tried before, repeatedly; it was called "centralized planning" and was a feature of the Communist regimes in the Soviet Union, China, Eastern Europe and so forth. Despite years of practice and some of the smartest people on the earth (ever read Russian mathematics papers? Chinese chemical research?) they were not able to make it work, either in the long run or the short. There simply isn't enough data, mindpower and resources available to create a government planning bureau that can match the efficiency of a free market. Those who try are doomed to fail; those who fail will do anything to hold onto power, leading to the Killing Fields, Katyn Forest, gulags, Great Leaps Forward and similar atrocities. If you succeed in bringing this to America, I will find you and hold you responsible, along with all those who love freedom and value responsibility. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:34 PM, JPMillerHOU wrote: I have a lot to quarrel about in Richard Gibbon?s article This Bailout is Great! In the first paragraph Gibbons says, ?The basis of capitalism is that the strong survive, while the weak collapse.? Ayn Rand defined, ?Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.? The basis of capitalism is not the strong surviving but rather rights which are necessary for all men including businessmen so they can use their minds to survive. Justice demands that those who produce are rewarded and those who do not produce are unable to collect rewards. But that is a consequence not the basis of capitalism. Gibbons further asserts, ?The problem is that, as a country, we can't make decisions based simply on anger or capitalistic dogma.? Rights are not capitalistic dogma. They are the necessary condition for men to survive because their means of survival is thinking. Any violation of rights denies the individual and the businessman the free use of his tool of survival his mind. Rights are objectively derivable from the nature of man. Dogma on the other hand is an assertion in disregard of the facts of reality. Gibbons is contemptibly understated in his contrast between the huge abundance of food and every other good in the United States and the mass starvation of millions and chronic shortages of every conceivable commodity in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Gibbons is wrong. No banker in a capitalist society would rationally choose to lose his depositor?s money, destroy his bank?s reputation and his own, or risk the wrath of his stockholders, or invite lawsuits and criminal fraud action by putting money into high risk ventures or loans to those who could not afford to buy houses. But we have a mixed economy with massive doses of poisonous regulation. Banks have been protected from one of the most severe market punishments of misdeeds ever since the FED started regulating reserve requirements. They have been cajoled, shoved, driven and threatened to lend to low income buyers by many regulations including FHA, VA, HUD and especially CRA. They were offered easy ways to unload shaky debt through the highly regulated Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. They were forced by law to extend the same kind of incentive to all borrowers. Finally FED easy money policy created a Ponzi scheme that exploded housing prices so fast that huge profits could be made by unscrupulous bankers and many borrowers. Indeed Richard Salsman in his 1980 book Breaking the Banks pointed out that decades of such perverse regulatory incentives encourage scoundrels into banking, gradually replacing skilled honest bankers. Capitalism the system based on individual rights does not breed this behavior; socialistic regulation that denies the banker?s free use of his mind does. Despite such regulatory attacks on capitalist banking there are still honest bankers and successful banks. Witness John Allison and BBT. Finally Gibbons is wrong about capitalism?s inability to respond to the failure of the bad apples in the basket. If those banks who failed because of bad loans and bad management had been allowed to go bankrupt and their assets liquidated then they would have been snapped up by competent banks for mere fractions on the dollar. Incompetent management would have been booted instead of collecting bonuses at taxpayer expense. Good assets would have been even better managed and bad assets set for collection. Such collection would have gotten people who were incapable of affording homes out of their houses and those houses into the hands of people who could afford them. True, huge amounts would be lost this way too but lost by those who did not deserve reward - incompetent bankers and indigent home-buyers. This crisis would be nearly over if liquidation had been allowed. Instead regulators are planning massive spending that will only reward the failures and punish the producers. Mr. Gibbons is an apologist for rewarding failure and punishing all the rest. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:36 PM, whoozyourdaddy wrote: OUR government is going to create jobs (if at all) at a cost of over 200K dollars per job. So we're going to spend 200K to create a 35K job, millions of times over to equal a spending bill that will top 1,000,000,000,000 dollars when all is paid. And that's on the optimistic side. At the lower end of the scale it's over 500K/job. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:38 PM, whereaminow wrote: There, there, now, my Socialist friends. Take your soma. It's going to be alright. Remember "Everyone belongs to everyone else." 1 gram of soma cures 10 bad thoughts. Orgy Porgy, Orgy Porgy........ Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:46 PM, fremmons wrote: This is one of the best articles Fool has published. It has brought out a diversity of opinion I have seldom seen on a controversy that needs to be discussed. Besides, I love satire. But I can?t find the punch line. Mr. Gibbons can?t be seriously thinking the bailout is a good thing. The Bailout is more like a double amputation to save the patient?s life. It is making the best of a very bad situation that has its root cause in government housing policy and banking deregulation. Beware the next government policy. "A crisis should not be allowed to go to waste......" Rom Emanuel Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:50 PM, nolove4money wrote: Wow! Great comments. Intelligent, insightful, passionate community...not sheep! Please post any other forums where I can find similiar conversation and research references. thank you very much There may come a time in the not to distant future when people of integrity, courage and self reliance may actually want to work together to survive and overcome the conditions of a failed society. peace to everyone... and God's peace to those of you who believe... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:53 PM, nolove4money wrote: Banks are hording cash (loans are not being made, even to solid borrowers), fact on the street and per public data. Residential and commercial mortgage defaults as well as credit card defaults are accelerating. The bailout and stimulus totals are less than 10% of the outstanding private and national debt that is collapsing in default. Even if the cash was going directly to service debt, create credit or create new jobs this year...it would still not be able to stop the locomotive collapse resulting from a debt/inflation based U.S. and global economy that is now imploding nearly identically to the 1929 crash but under a much more massive inflationary bubble. Read about the mkt, banking, gov intervention 1929-1936. Go to market browser.com (free portion), select chart, then economic chart...and start digging... VERY SCARRY! You guys need to read up (TMF staff). I am no authority but I have been spending literally hundreds of hours reading the most respected academics, historians and global heavy weight money managers...we are hosed...things are going to get worse...a lot worse. Go safe! Short Term U.S. treasuries (3mo Ts) for now as long as deflation persists NOT long term Ts. The minute inflation begins, run to gold, held outside of the U.S. The US gov has confiscated gold in the past (the last big crash), I don?t think it could happen again but why not cover that contingency? When respected top global money managers in the U.S. advise to have land, seed, fertilizer and other basic essentials as a hedge...you better think about the very real prospects of a severe depression in which access to basic goods may be limited. Depending on the continued solvency of the U.S. government, the U.S. dollar could conceivably lose its status as the world reserve currency...not immediately but perhaps in the next 1-2 years. Why do you think long term bonds are losing value...yes, cashed in to pay debt but foreign countries are also losing faith in the viability of the US economy. If/when the dollar turns the corner...after a deflationary period, it begins to sharply inflate...and the US must continue to service its ever increasing massive debt out of a diminishing GDP and diminishing tax base...the only alternative will be to print, print, print. Under these conditions inflation would sky rocket due to lack of demand for the dollar and huge debt service being paid by a currency that has no economic base to sustain its value. The dollar would literally start to move toward the value of the paper that it is printed on... This is not immediately immanent but assuming we remain on the present course, many very smart economists say that it is inevitable...2yr, 3yr, 5yr... Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:06 AM, wtf2009 wrote: Wrong. Capitalism does work. To help illustrate my point, I'll be canceling my subscription. Best of luck, Fools. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:09 AM, pilikea wrote: What a pile of sophomoric garbage. No wonder I doubted the value of foolish advice; this article confirms there is no value between the fool?s ears. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:43 AM, ozaku wrote: I have to agree with the majority of the community responses. When I read this article I was shocked. It went against every capitalist notion in my body. I thought to myself, "gee, am I the odd man out?" "Is this bailout madness indeed sanity and am I the one last resister?" And then it hit me...the fool has been politicized. Those who buy into the New Deal as a good thing and Obamamania as a panacea have lost their way so far off of the path of capitalism, that they can no longer be trusted for their advice. When the new 800 plus billion "stimulus" package hits, and no one can remember where the money went, when the Chinese stop investing in our debt because they know we have no intention or recognizing it as such, when hyper-inflation hits in a year and everyone starts screaming at the Fed, when the auto industry starts producing "green" Yugos that the government makes us buy at a premium and enforces punitive tariffs to protect union jobs, please don't anyone be surprised. Before the fool became a money-making engine ("read this free article but be sure to join the latest miracle investment package they are pushing") they did some good for the neophyte investment community. Obviously they should stick to finances and stay away from economics. For that they can just rely on the House Democrats to perform miracles for an economy that as not even been suffering for a year yet. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:50 AM, Aussiealan wrote: I am a new subscriber to TMF and still learning the ropes so I hope you will bear with me. The current financial crisis is of major concern to everyone around the world, including down here in Australia. I followed the link with the intention of finding out more about how TMF works and how it would address the issue of this Bailout. I would not have been surprised to find that the article was a "How to make a million out of the Stimulus Package" item, rather than an assessment of the pros and cons of the proposal. After all, a financial site is not necessarily the place to expect to find in-depth analysis. It was a pleasant surprise to find that this was not a "How to.." article and I read it with interest. Even more interesting were the comments, which are clearly 90% negative or hostile. This is also not surprising given the catchment of the site. What was surprising was the number of comments that effectively questioned the right of the author of the item to hold the opinions expressed. Or at least to hold these opinions and his job as well. The arguments for and against the proposed Bill are well beyond my ability to assess, and as a resident of a foreign country it would be impertinent to express one. However, the vehemence of the posts raises fears about the ability of the United States to find a way in which all citizens can pull together to restore the country to its past position of strength and admiration in the world. There is a vast reservoir of goodwill towards the USA and it would be a tragedy to see it destroy itself with internal hatreds based on ideology. One or two contributors have referred to the temptation to regard everyone who has a different interpretation of events as being either a fool or a knave. Very few, if any, actions are wholly right or wholly wrong and the challenge facing any attempt at building a civil society is to recognise this fact. My father was fond of saying "Its a wise man that knows what a fool he is". He would have enjoyed reading what Fools have to say! Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 1:03 AM, SIDLANA wrote: I agree with Andrew888 Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 1:22 AM, jimretired wrote: With all the threatened subscription cancelations I hope there is something in the STIMULUS PACKAGE for the MOTLEY FOOLS. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 2:13 AM, adlib5 wrote: what about the new deal keeping people from getting so hungry there are riots in the streets and destruction of the government. There are all sorts of unintended consequences for the plan of action that says let it all fail just as there are for doing too much. Innocent people will be destroyed. Personally I am well armed and will not allow my family to go hungry. We will eat off a public works social program or off of stealing from a rich guy or off the taxpayers while we sit in jail, when the wolf howls the man listens is how the Am,erican Indians described hunger. OK I am a long way from such drastic action but maybe some people are not. Hope is probably worth some cash. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 2:23 AM, DCDeliberate wrote: It is quite hilarious to me that Mr. Gibbons says it took the banks 9 years after the repeal of Glass - Steagall to invest poorly in ABS' and blow-up the system. First off, banks could not be investors if they did not take the bad loans that were found in the ABS'!! Banks had requirements to write these loans in order to participate in the benefits of a repealed Glass Steagall Act. SECONDLY and more importantly, were not Fannie and Freddie the instigators of theses very instruments known as ABS? And, because of their lack of disclosure oversight that regular banks HAD to perform under SEC scrutiny to operate, were not Fannie and Freddie able to bundle these very band loans with the good ones and sell them on the open market thus poisoning the WHOLE GLOBAL SYSTEM?!? F&F were making a toxic mixture for all their customers at the bar who were trying to cover the very losses they were enforced to make in order to continue to build their businesses under the opportunity of the repeal of Glass Steagall? F&F held 5.4 trillion of US mortgages and borrowed another 1.9 trillion to cover the rest. Who's stock has suffered the most in this crisis? The epicenter of the earthquake is on Wisconsin Ave. and McClean, VA. Hello Mr. Gibbons!! Where have you been? Do you watch the news? Do you see those pictures of homes with foreclosure signs on their yards? That is not B-Roll file footage from 1990-91. The Motley Fool has great info on it. But, it's opinionators stood out in the cold too long at the inauguration hoping to get a glimpse of Warren Buffet. This article is delusional at it's worst and not factual enough at best regarding the explanation of the current crisis. Get a clue Fool. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 2:54 AM, Buzzard9 wrote: There is so much greed oozing out of the pores of the writers on this posting that is sickening proof that we are in this pickle because of the rapid growth of such selfishness in our society. Greed has created this mess, combined with a putrid loss of concern for the welfare of the whole of our society. It matters little if this is driven mostly by banks, government or whatever when the dominant theme of all these selfish posters is "Me, Me, Me!" We really do need to see the collapse of this "Capitalist" economy for a while in order to appreciate what we have done to ourselves and our precious nation with such greed. It certainly sobered up our parents when they suffered through the 1930's and then had to sacrifice so much for WWII. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 3:06 AM, killben wrote: Your reasoning for Bailouts is pure baloney. You reduce your debt not by creating more debts but by repaying it or destroying it. Bankruptcies destroys debts. allow banks or companies that cant service its debts to go under instead of throwing more money at it. The only way to come out of this is allow free market to work, let companies go under, new companies will emerge .. ALSO SACK THE REULATORS, WHO WERE SLEEPING AT THE WHEEL, ENMASSE AND REPLACE THEM WITH PEOPLE WHO FORESAW THIS .. also do you really think you can get over this withoput pain world will not come to a end a new world order will emerge Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 3:27 AM, demondriller wrote: So much debate and so many differing opinions and no guarantees that the TARP is going to straighten this out. Failure is a truly frightening prospect. With a lot of time on my hands since retirement I have read extensively about world financial matters. This was prompted after reading about the Enron scandal- why would top company executives already millionaires be prepared to jeopardise everything to become even wealthier- a constantly recurring story. One thing led to another and via Naomi Klein's book Disaster Capitalism? I was yet again left with more questions than answers. I was forced to conclude after all this reading that the world economy had never been about making the lot of the common man any better- a realisation that angered me because as a reasonably intelligent individual it meant that I had swallowed totally all the lies and half-truths fed me by the British press for the whole of my adult life. As far as you americans are concerned this reading leads me to one conclusion- that since the passing of The Federal Reserve Act on Christmas Eve (yes Christmas Eve) in1913, through WW11,the 1970's Milton Friedman Chicago School of Economics thinking, the unravelling of the Glass-Segall legislation in 1999 and up to today's crisis, the american economy has effectively been raped and pillaged by a highly organised group whose real allegiances lie outside the US. In a similar way the same group have effectively marginilised the Russian economy by using western banks finance to pay millions for state assets which were worth billions. As if to bear testimony to the suggestion that their true loyalties lie outside the countries in which they operate many of them are wanted for various financial misdemeanours in Russia and are now living in the West in countries like mine that sees nothing wrong with giving these people protection. The latest twist in this saga is that the current bunch are now defaulting on their loans to at least one British bank. So what is the point of this diatribe. What I really want is to be told it aint so. Please tell me that the Federal Reserve, the IMF, the World Bank and the Bush administration was or is not part of something evil. Still more questions than answers. One thing to bear in mind as an american tax payer is that vested interest on Wall Street might be very quiet at the moment but if things do get turned around they will be back for more- they have had their snouts in the trough for so long that it has become a way of life.You are at least very lucky in one fundamental regard- you have an honest President who would rather fail than become dishonest and be someone you can be truly proud of having elected. Over here in the UK it will be more of the same I am afraid. We cant even let our illustrious Scot travel abroad without feeling twitchy- he keeps claiming to have saved the World. At least we dont bear the responsibility of having elected him to this high office. Good luck everyone. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 3:33 AM, sabertoothtiger wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful article. I didn't realize unemployment DROPPED TO 14% during the depression. I think it shows we have a window of opportunity to prevent another great depression. Personally I have great confidence in the new Obama Administration and I know they will do a great job of managing the situation. I'm looking for a 3 year time frame to see the results clearly (either way). Sure it is possible things will not work out well, but I am putting my money behind my confidence in this team. Add your comment. ArticleComments.showTools(); Compare Brokers TD AMERITRADE Open Account more info ShareBuilder Open Account more info Power E*Trade Open Account more info Scottrade Open Account more info Fool Disclosure SPONSORED LISTINGS How To: Trading Options Free CD-ROM that will teach you how to trade. No credit card required. www.schaeffersresearch.com Free Report: Discover Top 5 Stock Buys for 2009! Get Your Free Report with Top Stock Buys Today. Expert Advice from Louis Navellier. What's Your Credit Score? A Bad Credit Score is 600 or below. Click here to see yours for $0. Invest in all financial markets with FxPro.com Invest into currencies, stocks & futures with advanced conditions in one easy account. The Coming Natural Gas Boom Obama's "Repower America" initiative will pour hundreds of billions into new energy projects - creating an estimated 3 million NEW U.S. jobs! U.S. oil and natural gas production will surge... handing profits hand-over-fist to one leading manufacturer of oil and gas pipelines and equipment for tapping new oil and gas wells. Find out the name of The Motley Fool's Top Pick for 2009 in a new FREE report called, "The Only Energy Stock You'll Ever Need"! Buy a Link Now DocumentId: 821346, ~/articles/articlehandler.aspx, 2/7/2009 4:58:39 AM Report This Comment Use this area to report a comment that you believe is in violation of the community guidelines. Our team will review the entry and take any appropriate action. Enter your comments here... Sending report... Email Contact Us Delicious Print Digg RSS What Fools Are Saying Pull Your Head Out, Mr. President 56 minutes ago: Comment added by uclayoda87 WE MUST DO SOMETHING!!! 1 hour ago: Comment added by DaretothREdux Two years recession, or ten years of hell? (Video) 1 hour ago: Blog post added by kaskoosek Get involved! ? Most Recent This Just In: Upgrades and Downgrades Feb 6 at 4:25 PM 3 Stocks Ready to Roar Feb 6 at 4:16 PM Throw This Stock Away Feb 6 at 4:13 PM Most Popular Articles Fool Blog: Let's Audit Everyone in Washington3 days ago Vegas Proves Reckless for Wells Fargo 1 day ago ?Buy American? and the Death of Competition2 days ago Feb 6 at 4:03 PM Market Summary DJIA 8,280.59 +217.52 +2.70% S&P 500 868.60 +22.75 +2.69% NASD 1,591.71 +45.47 +2.94% Sponsored by: Related Tickers BAC C GS JPM MS Bank of America Corp CAPS Rating 3/5 Stars $6.13 +1.29 (+26.65%) Outperform6647 Underperform928Rate This Stock Is MasterCard a Buy? Feb 6 at 3:29 PM I Was an Evil Investment Banker Feb 6 at 2:16 PM Is Obama Crying Wolf With This S... Feb 6 at 1:13 PM All stories about BAC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 03:12:46 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:12:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Hundreds should go to Jail Message-ID: <631287.45937.qm@web27402.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hundreds Should Go to Jail By Tom Gardner January 29, 2009 | Comments (129) Recs 597 Motley Fool Stock Advisor Since 2002, Motley Fool Stock Advisor has outperformed the S&P 500 by 30 percentage points. Join David and Tom Gardner in Stock Advisor today. Free Trial "The law may not change the heart, but it can restrain the heartless." -- Martin Luther King For years now, heartless people have been running many of our world's banks and investment houses, and our laws have been insufficient to restrain them. Boards of directors, CEOs, and their leadership teams created incentive systems that rewarded self-interest, impatience, and bottomless greed. That's a deadly three-punch combo that can flatten employees, customers, and shareholders alike. And it has. So we should not be surprised to find that even as banks have toppled, even as tens of thousands of workers have lost their jobs, even as shareholders have been wiped out, and even as taxpayers are on the hook for trillions via future higher taxes or hyperinflation, the "leaders" of these organizations have continued to pay themselves obscenely. How obscenely? Despite losing $35 billion in 2008, Wall Street firms paid out $18 billion in cash bonuses! Specific examples are more enlightening still. ? Exhibit A Washington Mutual CEO Kerry Killinger took home $88 million in the seven years preceding the collapse of the bank, which was later handed over to JPMorgan Chase (NYSE: JPM) at a 95% discount to prior highs. Killinger apparently designed a gimme-gimme culture fueled by reckless urgency and deceit. He hasn't returned a dime of his compensation. ? Exhibit B After leading AIG's (NYSE: AIG) credit-default swap unit, which lost $11 billion in one year, Joseph Cassano was allowed to keep $34 million in bonuses for the year. He was then hired for $1 million per month to consult the company on its maze of transactions. In total, Cassano was rewarded with more than $280 million for helping to destroy the world's largest insurer. ? Exhibit C During a 15-year period as CEO of Lehman Brothers, Richard Fuld lapped up hundreds of millions in rewards. That includes a $22 million retirement pay package in the year his company went under. ? Exhibit D A year ago, John Thain was given a $15 million signing bonus to take over at Merrill Lynch; in 2008, the company posted losses of $27 billion. Today, Merrill is widely considered a bankrupt subsidiary of Bank of America (NYSE: BAC). Yet this December, Thain lobbied hard to be paid a $10 million bonus. And why not? His predecessor, Stanley O'Neal, received a $160 million retirement package after posting writedowns of $8 billion in a single quarter. ? Hard as it may be to believe, there is no law that mandates the return of compensation when an executive's actions destroy a corporation. There's also no law that says you can't be heartless. Being soulless isn't criminal. And having no shame isn't actionable. To take legal action, federal authorities have to prove that these and other bankers had an intent to deceive. For example, if they can prove that Thain misled Bank of America before the acquisition, or that Thain and BofA misled regulators about the condition of the bank to secure bailout money, those points would be cause for prosecution. But in the many cases in which regulators won't be able to prove anything, we won't see orange jumpsuits on the hundreds of bankers for whom they would fit. Hundreds? Yes, certainly. At least that many. Remember that the banking sector has wiped out its investors, is decimating companies that rely on credit, and is primarily responsible for our rising unemployment. So what are we left with, in terms of people who may go to jail? Well, there's Bernard Madoff -- whose deceit has spanned decades -- as well as what is certainly a team of shills. Early analysis of the accounting suggests that Madoff actually executed few, if any, trades. And in a true show of heartless cruelty, when Madoff was arrested, he had $170 million set aside not for the clients he had destroyed, but for friends, family members, and select employees. His lawyer is now being paid $1,000 per hour with client capital. ? The search for confidence What the markets need now, we hear every day, is confidence. Master investor David Swensen, head of Yale's endowment, said as much on The Charlie Rose Show last week. And of course, he's right. As we saw with the falls of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual, and Wachovia, lack of confidence leads to bank runs, bailouts, and bankruptcy. And when our banking system is crippled, there isn't enough confidence left for investors to fairly value even the most honorable organizations -- names such as Costco (Nasdaq: COST), Procter & Gamble (NYSE: PG), Berkshire Hathaway (NYSE: BRK-B), and Johnson & Johnson (NYSE: JNJ). But until there are new regulations in finance, there will be no rebound in investor or consumer confidence. Until the rules for the TARP plan restrict banks from paying bonuses during the deepest recession in decades, taxpayers will not stop getting angry. Until we see clear evidence that those who destroy companies will not benefit from their actions, we will continue to suffer the consequences of moral hazard.?In short, until the market system looks meritocratic and constrained by ethics, why should we expect the mainstream investor and consumer to demonstrate confidence? Since 2002, Motley Fool Stock Advisor has outperformed the S&P 500 by 30 percentage points. Join David and Tom Gardner in Stock Advisor today.Get a Free Trial Tom Gardner is the co-founder and CEO of The Motley Fool. He owns shares of Johnson & Johnson. Bank of America is a former Motley Fool Income Investor recommendation, and Johnson & Johnson is an active pick. Costco Wholesale and Berkshire Hathaway are Motley Fool Inside Value and Motley Fool Stock Advisor selections. The Fool owns shares of Berkshire Hathaway and Procter & Gamble. The Motley Fool is investors writing for investors. Read/Post Comments (129) | Recommend This Article (597) Email Print Feedback Digg Delicious RSS Obama's Favorite Industry Obama's "Repower America" initiative will pour billions into new energy projects -- creating an estimated 5 million NEW U.S. jobs! Domestic oil and natural gas production is projected to surge... handing profits hand over fist to a leading manufacturer of oil and natural gas pipelines and drilling equipment. Find out this company's name and why it's The Motley Fool's Top Pick for 2009 in a new FREE report called "The Only Energy Stock You'll Ever Need!" Click here for instant access to this FREE report! Comments from our Foolish Readers Help us keep this a respectfully Foolish area! This is a place for our readers to discuss, debate, and learn more about the Foolish investing topic you read about above. Help us keep it clean and safe. If you believe a comment is abusive or otherwise violates our Fool's Rules, please report it via the Report this Comment icon found on every comment. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 2:15 PM, FleaBagger wrote: Dear Tom, Thanks again for the t-shirt. It's handsome and comfortable. I want to take issue, however, with your characterization of banking and investing as lacking adequate government involvement. Simply put, investors have relied on the government to take care of them and protect them from bad investments, so they blindly go where they are led by mutual fund salesmen, rather than put forth the effort to educate themselves. You used to advocate personal education. But now you want a public policy change because people are suffering for their own mistakes (people who blindly invested in WM, AIG, Bernie Madoff, etc.). The government's involvement in the current crisis started when it bullied banks away from "redlining" (remember that term?) and fueled the housing bubble and the credit crisis. Now it is raising deficits and probably taxes. I have yet to see any significant harm to anyone that wasn't caused by the government or by those harmed. More government involvement will mean further disaster, as it did in the 1930's and the 1970's. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 2:23 PM, johninmn wrote: Yes they should!! And what schools did these fine pillars of society go to? Perhaps some of the money should go to mandatory Ethics Classes in the MBA and Finance programs they took. The Board members who all go to the same clubs and pat each other on the back should be thrown out too. How can they hire these crooks back as "the best we have" to work on fixing the companies? I don't understand the logic? Pretty amazing Dollars we all pay for their "self-interest, impatience, and bottomless greed." I'd love to see some jail time and a recall of some of these dollars. Perhaps that would restore some confidence for investors. How do these guys sleep at night? Great article! Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 2:28 PM, sheguno wrote: I'd rather chose to believe that you don't know what redlining is than believe you are actually advocating it. Secondly, a lot of this financial mess had nothing to do with a government law that has been in the books for over two decades to make sure folks don't get discriminated against. The law didn't apply to the Countrywides and builders giving loans. They hardly existed then and weren't factored in. It applied mostly to commercial banks. Many of those banks are fine. It's the big boys/gals who are in trouble for greed. I can't understand people who believe the market can do no wrong and it is always the government at fault, even in a clear case of a market overcome by severe greed with no rules to mitigate it. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: Hey Flea, I don't think it's a question of whether we need "more" or "less" government involvement, but rather whether there are laws on the books limiting what most people would rightly consider to be fraudulent behavior (whether or not it meets the legal definition of fraud.) Ignorance and enormous incentives and are in place that encourage executives to raise short term performance regardless of the systemic risks it entails. True, shareholders should educate themselves better to avoid being tricked by that, but since we as a nation are on the hook for the systemic risks if don't want capitalism to literally implode (as it did in the 1930s) it's simply not fair to taxpayers that we depend on shareholders to keep their managers in line. So we, as a nation, have basically 6 choices: 1) We depend on the intelligence, ethics, and altruism of investment bankers to do the right thing and put the interests of long term shareholders and America above their own. 2) We depend on the intelligence and long term interest of mutual funds with holding periods of less than 1/2 a year to keep their managers in line. 3) We depend on shareholders to a) read 10-k's, b) demand comprehensive risk disclosure, and c) make wise investments in stocks and funds that don't expose themselves to rotten apple companies. 4) We enact sensible reforms (like the ones we had from the 40s through the 90s) that prevent firms from doing dumb things that put the us all at risk, perhaps at the expense of the banking industry's profit margins and bonuses. 5) We do nothing until there's a crisis and bail everyone out. 6) We do nothing at all and let the banks fail and capitalism implode. . Right now, we're witnessing what a pleasure #5 is. And while I agree with you that #3 is an ideal we need to strenuously continue working towards, I don't think we can tell taxpayers and the rest of the nation that they have to rely on investors to make rational, long term decisions -- at least not considering humanity's track record of playing with ridiculous speculative bubbles dating back at least as far as the tulip bubble in the 1600s. It's simply not fair to ask taxpayers to trust investors to behave rationally until we earn that trust. - Ilan Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 3:32 PM, ianoc wrote: Excellent article and bang-on point. My suggestion is for you to keep beating on this drum, and do so with all the strength you can muster, because your message must be heard not just across the country, but around the world. I suggest that a mere 3,000 morally bankrupt people on Wall Street and in the nations first-tier banks and other financial institutions, brought down the world?s financial markets. This cadre of thieves sat on each others boards, and they learned their corrupt ways at the nation?s premier B-Schools while in training to become masters of the universe: places like Harvard, Wharton, Stanford and Chicago. Their actions over the past 10 years were indeed wanton, deliberate and illegal, which means they should be prosecuted for fraud and thrown in prison, not jail. There is a difference. Just ask Dennis K., who?s currently doing 8 to 25 as a guest of the State on New York. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 4:06 PM, captmaniac wrote: , but they won't. With what would you charge them? Greed? Morally, they're guilty, but legally - there's the rub. Many of those in executive management have been receiving obscene compensation packages, including golden parachutes. And who determines those packages? Compensation committees formed from board members. Many of those board members are in executive management on other companies. In some instances, it's just a "good ol' boys club" scratching each others back at the expense of the stockholders. Until the stockholders become incensed and say "no more" at the stockholder's meetings, the Government will have little effect. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 4:39 PM, wgk2001 wrote: I agree that executive compensation in today's large corporations seems to be obscene. There appears to be no accountability other than losing the job (usually accompanied by a generous payoff). Meanwhile the disparity between executive and employee compensation and keeps getting bigger. Perhaps the solution is to legislate that executive cash compensation cannot exceed 20x (or whatever reasonable multiple) the lowest employee is paid, and all additional compensation (bonuses, options, etc.) be held in escrow and only paid in future years (3-5) if the company is profitable, otherwise be forfeited to help cover the losses. If you extend "employee" to include those of outsourced services you might really make corporate leaders do a little sole searching :) Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Big50Shooter wrote: Bravo Tom!!! Bravo... While I tend to have a more laissez-faire attitude when it comes to government involvement in ANY industry, I would like to see the government become involved in the prosecution of the same farging-bastages that you describe above Tom... I also agree that we investors need to have a MUCH louder voice during the shareholders meetings regarding the rediculous levels of compensation that these BOD members are enjoying, regardless of how they perform... Personally, I also have a very affective way of dealing with these buffoons who bilked their shareholders, and now the American Taxpayers, out of billions. I am not going to say exactly what my favorite personal "fix" is here, but my Fool-handle can reveal it for me: Big50Shooter (the 50 stands for .50 caliber) ;-) Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 5:04 PM, upupaepops wrote: Congratulations to Tom Gardner and to TMFDiogenes for their cogent remarks. The public certainly needs oversight over corporate and financial institutions. Unfortunately, however, only the very worst cases of greed and fraudulent activity will be addressed. The private property system will not allow anyone to take away their prerogatives without a big fight. So, reform is good, and certainly sorely needed, but I think we need to go beyond what most are suggesting, and make serious and permanent inroads on corporate and financial power. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 5:09 PM, AnnaDcc wrote: I agree. -And it needs to be real prison - not house arrest in a mansion. A good portion of the Bush administration needs to be investigated on criminal charges as well, since they, by negligence, are almost as responsible for this mess as are the bankers that abused the system. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 5:26 PM, nunnatheabove wrote: Accountability Government: None. Both parties have a part in this and nothing will get done. It's my understanding that former employees of FNMA are now working for the new administration. There are monies going out the door and where is it going, what are they doing with it? Accountability? Now the government wants part of my IRA's to keep for me. They have done such a good job with the following I think they should. Those are the same people who have kept my Social Security and those who have got a great energy plan in line - this energy problem has been going on since 1972. (Remember waiting in line for gasoline.) Both parties are party to this mess. These are the same people that just voted themselves a pay raise in the middle of this situation - Accountability? Me, my children and my grandchildren will be paying for this the rest of our lives. Laws are made because people can't govern themselves. This list includes corporate and government people. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I just can't thank them all enough. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 5:50 PM, globalchem wrote: There is a special place in hell for those who take big bonus checks then screw up the company-- They are worse than Madoff-- He is a crook and we all see that but these worms want the money and respectability.They destroy the lives of those who worked hard for the money they steal. How much money do you need??? They should be shunned by every one Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 6:09 PM, FoolKMP wrote: The thing I really don't understand is that when they justify the bonus and excessive compensation they say they have to pay it to keep the top talent around. Is that the same top talent that let your company go down the crapper and lost all that money? We have been betrayed as shareholders, employees, and hard-working citizens who pay our taxes and our mortgages on time by the greed of others. If we can't put them in jail legally, let's put a bounty on them...you rob us, we shoot you. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 6:35 PM, jbromet wrote: To the readership of Motley Fools, I agree that virtually hundreds of CEO's, FCO's, and the boards of directors who turned a blind eye and/or were complicit to the greed taking place within their institutions should go to jail. However, I don;t want to leave out the Congressmen and Senators who either promoted ro encouraged foolish policies that led to the financial downfall. It was men such as Barbny Frank who threatened to sue Freddy Mac & Fanny May if they didn't offer loans to people who had no means and no stake in the house they wanted to buy. These same "servants of the people" were more than happy to be bribed to look the other way when things went south. Ultimately, it was the people's grievous error in continuing to vote into office a gang of criminals we call legislators. The people get the government they deserve. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 6:44 PM, jbromet wrote: An additional statement: If bankrupting the entire world isn't a crime and condemning the poor to an even harsher existence then they would otherwise have isn't a crime, we have lost all perspective. The people whose job it was to safeguard our children's future should be jailed and their assets and the assets of their families should be seized. The lesson here is that if you jump a turnstile, you go to jail. If you steal billions, you walk. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 6:51 PM, spyderfngrs wrote: Ah, the "invisible hand" is at work again making the corrections necessitated by those seven deadly sins, including slothful ignorance. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 7:12 PM, TrueFlaco wrote: Hurrah to jbromet on focusing the blame where it belongs - our government leaders. He mentioned Barney Frank but don't forget Chris Dodd and others that thwarted any attempts at reform. Fleabagger has it right on and in response to sheguno, guys like Fleabagger and myself blame the government not because the private sector didn't do anything wrong, but because it would have self-corrected in a regular functioning market. In this case, because the government was pushing for Fannie & Freddie to increase the loan portfolios to the poorer folks that really couldn't afford it, there was an implicit gov guarantee on these securities that ultimately led many private entities to extend themselves beyond what would have been wise under normal circumstances. And, because of this implicit gov guarantee, the tab finally came due and we all pay because, as jbromet noted, we continued (not me but the country at large) to vote in these folks. The sad thing is that the media is so invested in a left-wing/big-government idealogy that you won't and don't see them asking the right questions and pointing the finger of blame where it should go. Instead, they all cheer on more government intervention, which led to this problem in the first place. As for calling on these former and current CEO's to go to jail, I understand the complaints but remember that the best way to reform these companies is through shareholder activism not government intrusion. If we become the country where the government controls what company leadership makes, believe me that these leaders will find somewhere else to live where these same constraints aren't in place. Now, if you are able, through shareholder activism, to get a particular company you are invested in to put some strict limits on their top officers, be ready for the consequences: a dearth of top leadership talent in your company. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 8:04 PM, nuf2bdangrus wrote: The incestuous relationship between government, Wall Street, and the SEC and other regulators is a revolving door that has built a model that creates incentives to bankrupt our country, as the taxpayer is ultimately on the hook. Sadly, this was not capitalism, it was crony capitalism. But capitalism will be the scapegoat, and socialism will be the replacement. This does not bode well. The government needs to become a good and honest referee, a role it was designed for and is failing miserably. Sadly, I see no hope. In an immoral and amoral culture, both government and top leadership live in a selfish world in which there is no self restraint. Lack of self restraint is the direct result of the decline in religious and civic values that made this country. I do not see good things ahead. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 8:44 PM, pmbarrett wrote: Jail time? Sure, just as soon as the bastards that bought a house with nothing down, saw it rise in value, refinanced at the higher valuation, took the cash and walked away from it, go to jail!!! Along with the loan officer and agent that facilitated this sham It wasn't just greedy corporate types that caused this problem, there were plenty of our finest citizens that made an easy buck on the back of the taxpayers. More damning, is the fact that our great and wonderful government, decided that these "citizens" should not be forced to give up their ill- gotten gain, by letting short sell, or put the property into foreclosure, without a penalty. Again, the taxpayers are picking up that tab. Greed had it's place in our society. When we were a country that actually manufactured products and sold them to the world, it was our greedy Robber Barons that provided this country with the wealth necessary to grow our nation. Look at the universities, towns, libraries and other tangibles that these people built. Now look at today's greedy corporate executives, most of them are in the business of paper shuffling and money handling. Or, better put, businesses that do not make a product or add value (ie; insurance, banking, hedge funds or brokerages). They simply steal wealth from their stockholders or customers! When America gets back to manufacturing products, then, and only then, will our wealth return. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 9:06 PM, teejk wrote: exec comp...I don't know where/when it started to get out of control but the rationale is that comp has to be measured against a "peer group". I've always suspected that the first "peer group" that started all this was somebody's fictional group of companies that paid fictional comp. The spiral started from there even though the fictional "peer group" disappeared from the scene a long time ago...no longer needed since comparables are now based on real companies that got suckered into the initial "peer group" Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 9:07 PM, syvranchr wrote: You tell it as it is Tom. However, the tentacles of greed I believe, reach much further than what you expressed in your article. Our government offices of regulation such as the SEC and others CHOOSE to look the other way. Heck, I WATCHED what was obvious insider buying in the last minutes of the market closing when the price of stock rose about 8% in a time period that was so late in the day it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get into the floor electronically for buying when I started to see it rise. But the good ole guys got the profit taking at the end of the day and could get by with it because no one is really watching. I wish there were a way as stockholders, who are actually OWNERS of the corporations could file a class action lawsuit for at least a Grand Jury. AND HAVE THAT HEARING TELEVISED NATIONALLY presenting the evidence with all the personal names and companies. Or why doesn't congress hold hearings? Now that was a stupid question wasn't it? Afterall Congress is in the same smoking room as the Executives of Greed and in reality the Exec's Lobbyist are the real managers who pull the strings of the puppets who set in the ivory towers. Also known as the US Senate and House. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 9:35 PM, rottenjohnny wrote: some people might say that this country started down the road to being a morally, ethically, and spiritualy bankrupt nation beginning in the year 1960. that was the year that i was taught on govt run public television that life began or was created when a lightning bolt hit the ocean and inorganic elements sprung into life as amino acids. the human race thereupon preceded to create themselves through the process knowns as chuckie darwin's law of evolution. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 10:45 PM, FoolKMP wrote: We have to start figuring out ways to STOP the madness, the greed, etc. 1) Term Limits for EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL. 2) Executive TOTAL compensation must be limited and tied to the lowest paid worker's salary, as I believe they do in Japan. 3) Creation of another viable strong, political party...a MUST! 4) Strict LIMITS on the total amount of dollars accumulated by political fundraising from ALL sources. 5) The LINE ITEM VETO. 6) If your company would like to sell it's products in the United states, then at least 50% of your workforce must be based in the USA, and 50% of your products must be built in the USA, otherwise we ban your company from selling products or services into the US marketplace. 7) NO EXCEPTIONS! Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 10:45 PM, Schmedlap wrote: I agree with everything in the article. What troubles me is that it only focused on the hundreds who are culpable, rather than the tens of thousands, and perhaps millions. The "leadership" of these banks provided incentives, motivation, and direction. But somebody had to implement those unethical and immoral guidelines. And there was no shortage of people willing to do so, whether they be middle management at the banks, mortgage loan officers at banks from which mortgages were purchased from, giving out loans without due diligence or in some cases outright fraud, people taking out loans who had no business doing so, rating agencies who were either outlandishly incompetent or flat out lying, and any number of others who contributed to this mess. A few hundred people did not take down this economy. Tens of thousands did - and perhaps more. There are more than a few hundred people who will walk away from this mess with blood on their hands and no punishment to show for it. Let's not forget that, simply because the few hundred mentioned in the article will be getting away with more egregious sin than the others. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 11:04 PM, allyndreth wrote: What seems to be left unmentioned is that a Bonus was originally meant to be additional compensation from PROFITS if a company had an unusually good year (ie: a reward for exceptional success) - not an annual dipping into the company for extra cash. Bonuses used to be rare and even pay raises for management used to be calculated on a firm's ability to pay them. So, if there were losses, how could one get a pay raise let alone a BONUS! Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 11:19 PM, HarryFlip wrote: This is an article that is long overdue. You are visible and respected - most of us are not able to influence the 'powers that be' because we are invisible. The whole mess going on in the economy right now is incredibly criminal in nature to a large degree. Enron was bad - Madoff was bad - this is much, much worse on so many levels. I simply encourage you and whoever else would join you to turn up the volume. People MUST go to jail over this. Report this Comment On January 29, 2009, at 11:43 PM, SwampBull wrote: The mantra of the people today should remind us of the burdens we have faced in the past - NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! We are all shackled to the 'rescue' packages to the tune of $5000 plus interest each - $1.5 trillion across the 300 million American citizens. Where do we stand to benefit? Do we have a stake in the banks as a result of $800 billion in the TARP program? No! Will the government ever profit from collecting all of the mortgage-backed securities into a 'bad bank? No! As many have already attested, we have been conned by both the banking system and the legislative branch. What should we do in protest of this blatant irresponsibility? First - VOTE. Get these swine out of Capitol Hill, and tell them to keep their brilliant ideas to themselves. Let's elect leaders who care more about the long-term preservation of our Constitution and the future of our society rather than the promotion of their starkly partisan interests. Nancy Pelosi in particular should be removed from office for her polarizing and self-serving behavior. Second - shun the banks. Their stocks are worthless, because they have made it clear that not only their owners - that is, the shareholders - but also their customers mean nothing to them. They have scalped countless retirement plans through their irresponsibility, and now they beg our representatives in Washington for help? Let them reap what they have sown. We can nationalize the banking system temporarily until we can find members of the private industry worth their salt to lead these institutions. Finally, let's stop ranting on blogs and griping at the water cooler and ACT. We need Washington to understand our frustration. We must not allow these crimes to go on unabated. The future of our country and our personal wealth depends on it. Contact the people whom we have elected to run this country to let your voice be heard. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Email: sf.nancy at mail.house.gov Phone: 202-225-4965 Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid Email: senator_reid at reid.senate.gov Phone: 202-224-3542 President Barack Obama Email: comments at whitehouse.gov Phone: 202-456-1111 Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano Mail: Department of Homeland Security Washington, DC 20528 Phone: 202-282-8495 Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 1:50 AM, 0x4b6a wrote: Angry? You're damn right we're angry. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 2:40 AM, PokerElBow wrote: The simply solution becomes neccesary at a point when you cannot stand someone in front of juris prudance to be judged. You must seize their assets and distribute them amongst the people. Allow them to keep exactly One million dollars. A reasonable amount for one to earn in forty years of a working lifetime. If they are of such talent, they will buid an empire. Straw into bricks with tools that work. These "Thousands" of corporate execs that have been permited to rob public companies simply because they were frat brothers of our elected politicians. Where's my rebate charlitian? Must we come and get it ourselves? Just start a level playing field and give all American citizens a real start in life in the land OUR forefathers fought to create and build. These CEO's were permited to believe that they were Sadams and kept not only the profits but the whole months reciepts.Take it back and let them prove that they earned it after. They should have been paid in stock alone to begin with!! Bonus' should have been voted on by the minority shareholders and awarded also instock only. Make them pick up the tuition tab for Americas college students, at the very least. They should not continue to live in the manner in whih they have grown too accustomed. Seize their accounts ASAP. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 3:46 AM, JDEvolutionist wrote: The reality is that we all share some of the blame, that?s ? individuals, corporations and governments. The bottom-line is that a relative few, bankers, financiers, politicians and celebrities, were the major beneficiaries. Yes, quite a few ordinary individuals made a killing too but only on the back of those that really, and totally unjustifiably in most cases, became excessively rich through absurd bonuses, unjustifiable options and salaries totally out of line with the value of the work performed. The fact is that a system evolved which gave people in the position of power far too much opportunity to benefit themselves without proper constraint, either through regulation or personal ethics. The result was a system that became basically highly corrupt: corrupt because it was stealing money from those who were funding it. It was accepted because it gave the misleading appearance of producing a very sound financial structure; in spite of the fact that most thinking people knew that it was not logical. The problem was that the appearance did not reflect reality and only existed because of an inherent inertia in the system that allowed the creation of ?wealth? that in fact had no foundation in true wealth creation i.e. did not ever exist. Business was being funded by imaginary money. It is part of the ?celebrity? culture where a few people benefit from involvement of the masses, in a process whereby the masses pay what appear to be relative small sums for a range of superficial benefits but which results in vast total receipts and ludicrous incomes for a very select group of individuals, who?s functionality is, in fact, worth no more than that of the average working man. The process is not new. The ivory tower created has now collapse and once again as it ?stands? at the moment, the ones that are being asked to pay for putting things right are the general public, principally the ones at whose expense the whole fiasco was created. This is not fair. While I do not advocate, with some exceptions, jail for all CEOs and directors, there is a very real case for the democratic, and we are continually told that the west is democratic, governments of the world, as elected by the people, to introduce legislation that claws back much of the wealth that has been stolen from the bulk of the people in those democratic nations. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 8:11 AM, dmeredit wrote: Tom, Shame on you. What I truly take exception with in your article is that you have jumped on the shallow media bandwagon that touts $18billion as an obscene amount, as if that has been paid to only a handful of top executives. The reality is that the bonuses have been paid throughout an industry that employs hundreds of thousands of hard working professionals, 99.99% of them honest individuals who put in long hours to perform a professional job and whose firms (a) did not receive bailout $'s, and (b) did not suffer as poorly as those who you mention in the article. Your focus on the 0.00001% who have taken advantage reflects poorly on your ethical position. Take my own company's situation. I lead a technology team on the "corrupt wall st". Everyone here regularly works 50-70 hours weeks - there is not a person in my team who did not work a continuous 48 hour shift in 2008. They are not paid fortunes - and many of us have taken a cut in our base compensation to help the company survive through lean times. Do I think my team deserves a bonus for the exceptional work they did in 2008 - most certainly yes. Will it be an obscene amount - no. But even the small amount we pay will contribute to that $18B obscene amount you quote. How many of the Motley Fool staff received a bonus in 2008? Did you? Did you deserve it? If you paid $1 in bonuses, you contributed to the number quoted. Please - let's stop the hypocrisy and labeling everyone in Wall St as corrupt individuals that should go to jail. I've always respected you as an enlightened soul with an aim to educate. This article sorely disappoints me. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 8:20 AM, pmbarrett wrote: Damn, after reading all these comments, I'm amazed at all the Socialists and redistributionists that frequent this board. Doesn't bode well for the future. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 8:33 AM, MPov wrote: Tom, I want to echo dmeredits thoughts. If you were in politics I would accuse you of shameless politicking. While $18 billion is a lot of money, the fact is that only a small handful of the people who receive Wall Street bonuses are fat cat senior executives making millions of dollars. Most of that bonus money goes to the tens or even hundreds of thousands of workers and middle managers at the Wall Street firms, and it is often a large portion of their compensation. These are mostly middle class and upper middle class folks who rely on that money to feed their families, pay their mortgages and car loans, and maybe save some money for their retirement and their kids' college educations. I am one of these people. I work for a firm that received TARP funds. I work hard and I do my job well. I did nothing to create the current economic problems. To suggest that I should go to jail because I got paid a bonus is insulting, and just plain wrong. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:25 AM, TMFTomG wrote: MPov, If your firm received TARP funds, that means it was at risk for not having the capital required to meet its obligations as a business. This horrible news for any organization. And what does it lead to? Belt tightening. Layoffs. Pay cuts. And certainly the elimination of bonuses. When your firm risks insolvency, you do not pay bonuses. That's standard on Main Street. When, in order to remain solvent, you receive taxpayer bailout money, you certainly do not pay bonuses. What your note actually confirms is that the bonus money was *not* about retaining talent. Like people across the country, you need your job. And the difficult times would/will force you to curb your spending AND to not be thinking about seeking other employment. In this environment, I see no reason that a dollar of taxpayer money should've been paid out as a bonus. I don't see it at other organizations facing insolvency, the vast majority of which will receive no bailout capital from the taxpayer. Why should it be any different on Wall Street? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 9:32 AM, captmaniac wrote: One comment inferred that if you were angry about excessive compensation and bonuses, you must be a socialist. That's bogus. Tom is not talking about the "average Joe (or Jill)" who gets a reasonable bonus each year. Another comment said we should have legislation that would limit the disparity (like 20X) between executive management and the average worker. In a democratic and capitalistic society, that would not work. However, the IRS could say that compensation about a certain limit could not be tax deductible as a salary expense (or any other business-related expense). The Government should not continue to subsidize such excesses. They limit how much I can deduct for medical expenses (for example). Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 10:06 AM, TMFTomG wrote: pmbarrett, my question to you about socialism. In a truly free-market system (which it sounds like you may be espousing), should we not prosecute Bernie Madoff? Life is just one big buyer-beward experience. So there should be no punishment for knowingly distributing peanut butter tainted with salmonella? We should remove all stop signs and speed limits, and shave back all speed bumps in school zones -- because, hey, it's up to pedestrians and other drivers to fend for themselves? And when it comes to money management, if you don't allocate a certain number of hours each week and don't hire your own detective agency to ensure that your money manager isn't a thief, too bad for you. It's a big free market out there. And if CEOs want to pay themselves $150 million as a "retirement" option, just as their corporation is collapsing...it's just too bad for the shareholders and employees that weren't paying enough attention. I believe there is a lot of space on the continuum between a totally free, rule-less market and outright socialism. The world of finance needs speed limits, stop signs, speed bumps, effective law enforcement, and the threat of prosecution. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 10:35 AM, MPov wrote: Tom, I want to respond to your message to me. First, let's get some facts straight. Most of that $18 billion in bonuses was based on 2007 performance, and paid in the first quarter of 2008 - before Bear Stearns, long before Lehman, and long before bailouts and TARP were even a glimmer in Congress's eye. Second, there is plenty of belt tightening taking place on the Street. Good people are being laid off, salaries are being frozen and bonuses will be cut (if paid at all). (By the way, these layoffs, freezes and cuts will ripple through the New York economy, increasing everyone's tax burden). I recognize the need for belt tightening and cuts. What is hurtful is your implication that I should be locked up because I got a bonus last year. I still feel insulted :( Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Buffal0Bill wrote: Men's hearts are corrupt. The more we try to banish God from our society the more our corporations and institutions will fail because more and more of the men who lead them will have no regard for God and His principles. When greed is your operating principle, you will ultimately fail no matter how successful you are in the short term. No amount of laws and regulation will prevent men from trying to find an "angle" or a "shortcut" rather than providing fair value for money invested or for money used to purchase a product. Our culture is now reaping what we have sown for the last half century. We just installed a tax cheat as our Treasury Secretary because he's supposedly the only guy in the country smart enough to fix our economic problems. Who are we kidding? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 11:56 AM, FleaBagger wrote: "Damn, after reading all these comments, I'm amazed at all the Socialists and redistributionists that frequent this board. Doesn't bode well for the future." You said it, pmbarrett. And then Tom takes one crook and uses him as a cover for all the socialist rhetoric in the comments, and yes, even in the original article. "We need more regulatory oversight!" Why? Madoff is going to jail. What he did was already illegal. To use him as the example of why we need more regulation doesn't pass the smell test. As for the rest of the greedy sons of guns on Wall Street, why not let Bear Stearns, Lehman, etc. shareholders take this as lesson learned? Because there's a credit crunch? I thought Fool.com was against our debt-swilling, overconsumptive economy. The people who were responsible actually benefit from a credit crunch, because of the price decreases when people with no money finally stop buying things they can't afford. Because government money is involved now? Surely we free market advocates won't be blamed for that, now will we? We were among the 80% of the country against bailing out Wall Street in the first place. So, yes, I'm okay with Bank of America paying John Thain a zillion dollars. Or AIG spending AIG's money sending their execs to Aruba or wherever the heck they went. That's their business, and if it's not, because they got a bailout, whose fault is that? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 12:13 PM, bobbobwhite41 wrote: The director of Yale endowment has it all wrong. Perhaps that's why he heads up the biggest group of elistist investment fakers next to Harvard. "Confidence", the thing he said is needed most in the USA markets, is NOT the thing that must occur first in the recovery process, as confidence is ALWAYS the result of something else coming previous that serves to inspire it's manifestation. He could not be more wrong in this, as usual. Getting the cart before the horse is always something these elitist guys do best, as they fully intend to be as oblique, obscure and arcane as possible to the great unwashed far beneath them. That's what separates them from the real people of this country, and they even prefer to be seen that way! Incredible. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 12:23 PM, iewagner30 wrote: Don't disagree with your list of crooks, but you need to had the politicians like Christopher Dodd, Barney Frank and our own President Obama to the list for sorry oversight and policy making, especially as it relates to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That's where this whole disaster started. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 12:26 PM, FleaBagger wrote: Here is the url for a very nice Fool.com article about people investing in high-risk, no-reward investments because they give an illusion of certainty. http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2009/01/29/the-dumbest-i... How is this relevant to the current discussion? Well, I think it goes a long way to explaining why people always want more regulation, even though a look at the world's economies shows almost perfect correlation of economic freedom and per capita wealth creation. (More freedom, more wealth creation.) Also, the freest economies have the most rich people who grew up poor and unconnected. So why more regulation, when anyone can see that it doesn't work anywhere it's tried, and freedom creates prosperity and opportunity for all? Well, because we have a powerful, ardent craving for safety, or control of our situation. Our expression of our need for control may very well be expressed as a call for more regulation from government. We think that if we can get 50.1% of voters on our side, we can control our situation with oversight -more detailed instructions for the future. We want no uncertainty, even if we have to settle for certain failure. To make ourselves feel better, we trade freedom and prosperity for the secure penury of government control. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 12:36 PM, TMFFlightsuit wrote: MPov, You said: First, let's get some facts straight. Most of that $18 billion in bonuses was based on 2007 performance, and paid in the first quarter of 2008 - before Bear Stearns, long before Lehman, and long before bailouts and TARP were even a glimmer in Congress's eye. If a CEO makes money in years 1-7 by the same practices that lead to the company's complete financial destruction in year 8, he still deserves "bonus" money for all those prior years? Nonsense. The fact that the payment of the bonus money is arbitairly seperated by marks on the calendar has nothing do to with the practices that were encouraged throughout. These are the same ones that would led to alchemistic financial success at first and then outright failure when their models no longer applied. By the same token, a President who sets policy in years 1-4 is no longer responsible for those same policies the second he's out of office. What sense does that make? As far as these executives go, the same strategies that helped them make record profits in 2003-2007 helped seal their fate in 2008. And yet because these days were seperated by technical marks on the calendar, they still deserve this money? Hogwash. Nick TMFFlightsuit Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 12:48 PM, UrbanJackBag wrote: Once banks started holding out their hand for money from the government, they lost the ability to decide for themselves what "reasonable" is. It was too hard for all these banks to just go away because they were too weak. Once they decided to try to be a "hangers-on", they have to play by Daddy's rules. Government will infinitely get bigger - "the line for money forms to the left." Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 1:00 PM, pmbarrett wrote: pmbarrett, my question to you about socialism. In a truly free-market system (which it sounds like you may be espousing), should we not prosecute Bernie Madoff? Life is just one big buyer-beward experience. So there should be no punishment for knowingly distributing peanut butter tainted with salmonella? We should remove all stop signs and speed limits, and shave back all speed bumps in school zones -- because, hey, it's up to pedestrians and other drivers to fend for themselves? And when it comes to money management, if you don't allocate a certain number of hours each week and don't hire your own detective agency to ensure that your money manager isn't a thief, too bad for you. It's a big free market out there. And if CEOs want to pay themselves $150 million as a "retirement" option, just as their corporation is collapsing...it's just too bad for the shareholders and employees that weren't paying enough attention. I believe there is a lot of space on the continuum between a totally free, rule-less market and outright socialism. The world of finance needs speed limits, stop signs, speed bumps, effective law enforcement, and the threat of prosecution. Tom, it's obvious that you did not read my first comment, only the one you did not like! Certainly Madoff should be prosecuted, but what he did was a criminal act. Anyone that commits a criminal act should be proscuted to the fullest extent of the LAW. What you alluded to in your article may have been stupid, but it was not criminal. As far as stop signs and traffic laws, speed bumps etc.,what has that got to do with the original discussion? Tom, you should know better than most, that investing has always had risks, and if you don't due your due diligence before investing your money, than you run the risk of losing that money. Yes, the buyer should be aware. We don't live in a nanny state, and I for one don't ever want to live in a nanny state. Tom, so according to you, if a business is on par to lose $3B and slash 3000 jobs due to prior mismanagement, but brings in a turn around specialist that is able to only lose $1B and preserve 2000 jobs, that person should not be rewarded with a generous salary and bonus? God help us if that's the way you think. Look, I don't like corporate greed anymore than the next guy, but there is a fine line between greed and hiring the best and brightest minds. If our government starts interfering with executive compensation, American companies WILL NOT be able to compete for the best and brightest minds that come out of our universities. Instead, foreign companies, without interference of their governments, will be able to lure these people away with the promise of more attractive compensation. Remember, most foreign companies can already pay better wages due to the difference in corporate taxation, America being one of the highest. America already has laws on the books to prevent what happened to our country. It's just that our government does not hire the right people to enforce those laws. Too many in government are the foxes that are supposed to be protecting our henhouse. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 1:25 PM, dmeredit wrote: TMFFlightsuit, So should we assume from your comments that, should TMF suffer a major failure in the next 8 years, you will happily refund all bonuses paid to you? No one can predict what will happen in the future, and do you honestly thing (Madoff aside) that the employees on Wall St (CEO's included) thought their business strategies were going to cause their companies to fail? Do you think the government economics professionals in Iceland thought the same? Do you think the same of TMF today? Very few people deliberately take actions that they believe and understand to be wrong. In most cases, and particularly in financial services, such actions are criminal, and are prosecuted. That's exactly why such oversight exists. And do you honestly think that MPov or I are arguing that a $100 million + bonus for a CEO is reasonable? But to tar the entire Financial Services industry with a "get no bonus and many of you should be locked away" is just disciminatory. It also shows a complete lack of understanding of the Financial Services compensation model where, in many cases, a low base salary is paid under the agreement that the total compensation will include a bonus component. And Tom - you never answered my question. What contribution is TMF making / made to the $18B number? Or did you all willingly forego any bonuses to ensure that number was not obscene? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 1:31 PM, dlomax77 wrote: If anything, the boards of directors are the socialists. They, the workers, fleeced the shareholders who owned those banks. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 2:09 PM, TMFTomG wrote: This is a great debate. And I'm glad we're having it. As often happens in Fool.com debates, I think there are pieces of truth sprinkled throughout the comments. . . regardless of which side you're on. One of the things that you should not assign to me is a belief that anyone who works at a Wall Street firm should be forced to throw back their bonus or to go to jail. I do not, however, believe -- given the performance and the taxpayer bailout -- that there should be bonus payments getting made. To the poster who asked about The Motley Fool, well, as a private company we're not required to reveal our compensation plans. But I can assure you of this, if we had an operatially cashflow negative year, we wouldn't be looking at bonus payouts. Further, if we ever were in position to require taxpayer money to survive, you can be very sure I would stand down on all bonus payments. Here's what I am an advocate for -- clawback policies at public companies and clawback statutes available to regulators in cases of egregious behavior. Bank of America/ML should be able to clawback money from Stanley O'Neal. In my opinion, in good faith, he should already have offered to throw it back, in the terminology of Cubs bleacher fans. Again, I believe these do help rebuild confidence. The more the marketplace looks merit-based -- and the more this bailout package looks merit-based -- the better. We are living in a suboptimal world, no question. But I'd rather feel it is suboptimal more than that it is, in the word of the Traveling Wilbury's, it's a dirty world, a dirty world..... Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 2:30 PM, TMFFlightsuit wrote: dmeredit, You're right. Tarring and feathering the entire financial services industry is not the right thing to do. I know many people in the industry with nothing but the best intentions. My frustration lies specifically (and singularly) with those executives and higher up employees that continue to accept exorbinant bonuses out of a misplaced sense of entitlement and expectation. They've been conditioned to expect this kind of treatment. And for that, we are all responsible. My greatest unhappiness lies with those individuals that believe they are owed money (many, many multiples the sum of my yearly income--I assure you) even when it is the TAXPAYERS (not their own highly profitable businesses) that are paying them. I have no problem with profitable companies paying their employees what they feel is justified. I may not invest with a company that chooses to overcompensate--but that's my choice. I'm not sure why I am obligated to subsidize these ludacris bonuses, at the same time building an unsurmountable tax liability for years to come. And frankly, I'm not sure you why you feel like that this is something the industry is owed. To your question about whether I'd give back my bonus if TMF failed as an organization, you constructed this analogy poorly. TMF would have to fail and then TMF would have to beg the American people to pay for outstanding (and outrageous) bonus obligations to the same employees that had set it up for failure. This is an unlikely scenario for two reasons: 1. Should TMF fail, we would have no reason to beg for alms from the US government. 2. Our salaries are dictated by norms of Main St--not Wall St. But, ultimately, the answer to your question is yes. If TMF failed and we were forced to accept US government money just to stay afloat (I'm not sure why anyone would want to artificially support a company that can't finance itself--but that's a seperate discussion altogether), then I would have no entitlement to a "bonus" of any sort. What is a bonus for if it is not meant as an means to reward good behavior? If my actions lead to the destruction of my company--AND--the subsequent need for you, as a taxpayer, to carry me upon your shoulders, have I earned a bonus? No. I would not accept your tax dollars as a bonus. Even if the work was done in prior years. Nick TMFFlightsuit Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 2:56 PM, EFHuttonAlum wrote: During the thirteen years I worked in the financial services industry as a retail broker I was never compensated for the performance and returns my clients earned. Broker comp was determined by activity instead of ROI to customers.When Glass Stegall was repealled (shortly after the savings and loan fiasco) I decided to retire from an industry that rewarded generating commissions instead of rewarding creating wealth for customers. IMHO, based on personal experience in the financial services industry, there is a real need for greater oversight and regulation in financial services and banking. We must require our elected officials to enforce greater scrutiny,moderation and prudence in an industry that is governed and motivated to a large extent by greed. There were exceptions to the rule, who cared deeply about their clients welfare, but they were unfortunately in the minority. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 3:29 PM, rdbpalmer wrote: While you?re at it why not hold government responsible for Bernie Maddoff's shenanigans! Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 4:25 PM, HGPD99 wrote: I don't understand corportate law, but up until early last year all I heard was how Sarbanes-Oxley was causing so much extra paper work and causing companies to be so overly cautious about how they did business that everyone said it was slowing down business growth. So, why isn't Sarbanes-Oxley catching any of these CEO's (and others) who have caused these problems? Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 6:19 PM, socialconscious wrote: Thank you Mr. Gardner! Yes the ring leading scoundrels imho should be sent to jail.Great Gatsby! They accepted bonuses while laying off and causing the layoffs of hunderds of thousands and destroying shareholder value and partcipating in histories biggest scam.Namely betting with parimutual odds(highly leveraged) people,governement and corporate money. Also they averted regulation by calling insurance "swaps". Writing unregulated insurance called CDS they could never pay. Today I feel you have vindicated me.Was it you or your associate who coined the phrase" History Echoes?" As in the Great Depression these scoundrels blamed external forces who at best could have a minimal effect for their highly leveraged bets. In the Great Depression speculators blamed Smoot-Hawley 2 1/2 % increase in already high tariffs for countries demise. Today the blame eithier the Community Reinvestment Act which has been around since the 70's to stop the unfairness Dr. King was fond of rallying against or Redlining. To answer Smoot-Hawley historians I would remind them the U.S. ran a trade surplus almost continuously from 1900 until the 1960s.Also jobs increased in the 20's depite high tarriffs.It is said these easiest solution is usually the right one. It was the bank failures that had the highest causal relationship. Link below on US trade from the US census pdf's from 1878 or so. http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/ To answer todays folks I would say if the 30 y/o Community Reinvestment Act caused this problem why did it not happen sooner? I also paraphrase what a NY times columist asked who asked Wall street to bet on peoples' mortgages. A-1 and Sub-primes by definition are risky ventures. It matter of personal repsonsibility and accountability matters often stressed on the blogs of MF. I present my opinion for it perusal. All best Social Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:11 PM, rjdingb wrote: Ethics, ethics, ethics. Clawbacks, clawbacks, clawbacks. Changing ethics will take years to inculcate. A future generation may take up a new ethics standard, realizing that the dreams of better standards of living, education, and heir ship that their parents hoped for them were dashed because the parents were so decimated that they couldn?t pass along the wealth to fund a better future. When those future citizens realize wealth evaporated due to a generational orgy of greed, and an insidious symbiotic relationship of unethical corporate executive classes and government deregulation and non-regulation bureaucracies and legislators, then will ethics change in some likely fanatical way (as it always does in history). And it won?t be pretty or ethical either. Clawbacks, are immediately needed. Perhaps a new tax page of reconciliation going back three years, where any employee of any pre-designated IRS identified financial industry firm, must separately report what portion of their compensation-income was bonus money in tax years 2006-8. Then, a separate statement from the firms confirming if said firm was profitable for those years. Then, a surcharge on income from all bonus money amounts received in years where profitability can not be demonstrated. And to be fair to the hard middle management and workers who weren?t so much part of the robbery or looting, a no surcharge tax exemption for the first $50K of bonus, and a rising percentage for all bonus money awarded on a rising scale. I.e. 30% 50K-75K, 40% 75K-100K, 50% 100-200K, and a whopping 90% tax on all money received as bonus of $200K and above. If they already spent the money, in real estate require forced sales. If they blew it on opulence and trappings of superwealth, confiscate the jewels, force disgorgement of country club memberships for whatever equity can be gotten, and do whatever it takes to disgorge them of the luxurious goods of the greed fest, until they satisfy the surcharge on their bonus. Do the clawbacks and societal recompense soon, or confidence will be eroded and the markets won?t come back anytime soon. Worse, the next generation who will bear this horrible burden will likely be led by fanaticism when ethics are not only changed revolutionarily, but where morality will go out the window with revenge. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:38 PM, bushact wrote: We been had online, I been trading since the late 1990s and never seen it this bad.Perfect example was when yahoo allowed bogus financial ratings for what is now ttnp . The insiders swindled me online pumping bogus headlines and a power rating of 1 on yahoo. I called scottrade and tried to explain my case, the representive of scottrade said to complain to amex. I know they got away with stealng using illegal internet advertising. IMHO our govt is truely a type of new aqge mafia that is as dangerous and even more dangerous than the real itailian mobs. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 7:45 PM, bushact wrote: I bet I'm not the only one that wants to see bad people on wallstreet suffer like never before! I also have been stimulated to have disrespect for any spy govt org. and I certainly know the enemy now. Report this Comment On January 30, 2009, at 10:36 PM, ilovesum wrote: What a joke that now the investor is responsible for his losses cause they were lying crooks . The reason i go to a professional is cause they're supposed to know more than me. I don't go to the doctor and walk away with the impression one of my buddies should do the surgery , THATS NOT HIS JOB !!!! If the doctor makes a mistake does he blame the patient for not knowing medicine ?? haw haw haw Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:00 AM, pgb21 wrote: The stock markets are not savings accounts and people should stop thinking they are. While i fully support punishing criminal behavior and beefing up laws, the reality is that investments are risky and individuals must take responsibility for managing that risk / reward balance - including deciding who to trust with your money. If people dont want to spend the TIME managing risk then they must give up expected RETURN. If they dont want to give up RETURN then they must give up TIME. It is crazy for anyone to expect they can invest no time and get a high return. Even the so called bad guys in wall street and mortgage business don't have it that good. Even though it may not seem like it when you write that monthly mortgage check, the banks loaning money are spending a ton of time managing the risk and "earning" the return. They manage bad debt, advertise to attract new biz, and so on. Why do investors feel they deserve something easier and less risky? . Also, where do people get the idea that you are suposed to be completely and proactively protected against criminal behavior? Granting fiduciary responsibilty to a broker or fund manager is an act that everyone should feel the need to take additional care when doing not one where you blindly trust the government to take care of you. Where did this nanystate thinking come from anyway? It certainly isn't in the Constitution. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:41 AM, aleecebrooke wrote: Wow- there's a lot of info to absorb here! I for one, wouldn't mind seeing the execs of fallen banks go to jail, but for what, is hard to say. Because they are bad people? Is is expressly prohibited for them to take the money? Probably not, or they wouldn't have done it. I wish that congress would have made a few stipulations before they just handed out billions of our tax dollars to the banks (like NO bonus, NO private jets, NO company paid trips to the islands, ect). But, you have to figure that the folks on Capitol Hill are about as corrupt as the execs themselves, so many were probably cashing in on some level (as heard from rumor and small children). Anyway, I think that as leaders in the financial industry, many of these execs should return their multi million dollar bonuses, retirement packages, ect. It would increase faith in the current financial system, and would probably make them much less hated people. Really, who needs that many million to live comfortably? And if they are making that in a year, how much do they have put back to live on? I hate to see more government intervention in our society. We already have more laws than can possibly be governed. By making more, you are protecting the little guy, in theory, but realistically, you are taking away his ability to think for himself. The stock market is certainly an investment, but it's also a gamble. Anybody that has played knows that. Well, that's my rant for the evening. Thanks for a great article and debate! Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 4:24 AM, Zebra366 wrote: I understand the anger at those who we read about in the news and rightfully blame for the misfortunes of many. But in fact it was government intervention that created outrageous pay packages based on options rather than direct pay. The government said that executive pay over $1 million could not be deducted as a corporate expense. So the C-Suite executive bonus package, tied to options and the near-term stock price, developed. This created an incentive at the top level to manage the price of the stock instead of managing the company. To take risks that would boost net revenues artificially. The excessive leverage and the pure gambling on derivatives that occurred was a natural outcome of a heads-I-win, tails-I-don't-lose form of compensation. The fact that private investment firms could create money or credit through leverage was not really the problem for the majority of sane and sober Americans; it was a problem only for the investors and high net-worth individuals who bought into these schemes. At least it would have been, until the idiots in government office made up this notion of a company being ?too big to fail?. IMHO these companies were ?too stupid to survive?. Only their connections with Hank Paulson saved them. The real criminals are not the people in the investment banks, GSE?s, or AIG who were responding to their personal incentives. The real criminals are those people in high government office who decided to use taxpayer funds to try to save these grossly mismanaged companies. Bernanke, Bush and Paulson have committed crimes or mistakes that will haunt generations of American citizens yet unborn. Read the story of the Tulip Bubble by Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. In that book also is the story of John Law who helped France to ruin by teaching it how to create fiat money, which is a good tale to predict 2009 and beyond. The trading in derivatives, especially Credit Default Swaps has been a story of pure gambling on the part of some formerly staid institutions. They have come to grief just like the Tulip traders of 1636. In that situation the distressed traders appealed to the Dutch government to save them. The government declined to do so and the judges refused to enforce ?debts incurred in gambling?. The fact is that we could protect the majority of the populace with FDIC insurance and let these incompetent institutions fail. Not only would it be cheaper but we would avoid the ?lost decades? that the Japanese created for their country in 1990 when they went down this same road. It is often said in investing, ?don?t fight the Fed?. Well, this time the Fed has to understand, ?don?t fight the market.? These institutions are dead; no amount of taxpayer money will bring them back to life. Keynesian economics is also dead and discredited, no amount of taxpayer dollars or credit wasted will change that fact, Keynes is only being revived because it is convenient cover for the government to distribute pork in that name of ?stimulating the economy.? Zimbabwe, Weimar Republic, we are coming to join you. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 8:29 AM, TMFTomG wrote: Zebra, I would also recommend to you the book "Millionaire" by Janet Gleeson, which tells the full story of the life of John Law, and what he did to the French currency. It's a fantastic book. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 12:54 PM, theta1 wrote: The bonuses and perks on Wall St. will continue as long as the system between lobbyists and politicians continues. The greed and the "holier than thou" attitude of our politicians has spread to Wall St. The only ways for the public to send a message to the members of Congress are to,not reelect them, and organize a recall vote against them. We must hold Congress accountable for their poor judgement. If the current administration wants change, this could be a starting point. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:22 PM, GoldCanyon wrote: Dr. Robert Hare has written an excellent book about psychopaths entitled "Without Conscience." He has also developed a test to identify such persons in the corporate setting. It is called B-Scan 360. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 1:48 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: Zebra's right -- we shouldn't give favorable tax treatment to companies who reward their employees with options rather than on other metrics. But 1) the $18.4 billion cited was a cash bonus, and 2) this fact alone doesn't make "the government" the sole villain here. We all share in the blame -- firms who awarded options on short term stock performance rather than long term business performance, executives who sacrificed their firms for tons of money, and investors who aided and abetted the whole arrangement. . Zebra's also correct that the former administration screwed up the bailout. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have had one to begin with. I would encourage everyone against rescuing horribly mismanaged firms because they don't buy the "too big to fail argument" read this article: http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2009/01/30/this-bailout-... To summarize, the FDIC has about $85 billion to insure all the deposits in the country. WaMu alone had $188 billion in deposits , Citigroup some $600 billion, etc. Had we allowed them to fail, we'd have been on the hook for even more money, and we would literally have allowed the global financial system and perhaps capitalism to fail. That's why the proper way to handle this problem would have been to prevent firms from becoming too big to fail in the first place, with sensible measures like Glass-Steagall and so forth. . If, like me, you don't enjoy having the government intervene every few years to save the system (LTCM was another recent case), you must 1) limit the size of financial firms to preempt the "too big to fail" phenomenon, 2) limit the quantity and stupidity of executive pay packages, or 3) cross your fingers and hope investment bankers somehow become altruistic on their own. Those are your only choices.That's it. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 2:35 PM, TMFTomG wrote: Theta, yes, the effects of lobbying on our political system is a national disgrace -- has been for many, many years. What we have to remember is that these bailout packages are heavily influenced by lobbyists pushing for favoritism in exchange for capital to help elected officials get re-elected. We have to slap ourselves awake to remind ourselves that as taxpayers we are never getting a taxpayer-centric plan. . . it is heavily altered by lobbying (aka bribing -- let's just get rid of the euphemism). And...great posts, Diogenes. Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 7:50 PM, NYMArts wrote: Labor Camps were MADE for these Money - addicted bastards. I hear Dick Cheney and his Halliburton are constructing the Holding Facilities at this writing. The Constant Parade of Captured CEO's into these Facilities will indeed be a Sight for Soar Eyes :o) Work 'em Hard 'til their Natural Deaths. The Right of the People Shall Maintain. God Bless America Report this Comment On January 31, 2009, at 8:26 PM, BillinBoca wrote: I'm in Boca in my gated community, in my $7 Million home with my bonus money. So are all my friends. Next weekend we will be in Vail. In capitalism, the strong are permitted to keep spoils far outsized than the weak. YOu people are the weak. Our bonuses are secure. Your losses in our stocks will set your retirements back, will destroy your kids educations, and will confine you to minimal existence. Do I care.. not really. Can you take my money from me. Ha ha. Try. You can do nothing. Get used to it. It's called capitalism. Get your frustrations out in this forum. It will make it easier for me in the future. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 2:31 AM, DAfshar wrote: Though I'm not as cynical as "BillinBoca" I have to agree with some of the points. Yes, some of the execs should be in jail. Yes, BillinBoca's bonuses are fairly secure and yes, many will continue their minimal existence. But, where were all of these people when the markets were booming? Why weren't these comments made then? The answer is PAIN. People and systems don't change until people feel pain as a result of their own or someone else's actions. So, will things change? No, most likely not and that's why BillinBoca is laughing to his heart's content right now. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 6:55 AM, jerrymurphy wrote: I can think of 535 people who should go to jail. Actually 534...Ron Paul doesn't have his hands dirty. The other 534 members of the House and Senate have done far more to rob the American people over the years than any bank or business could ever dream to do. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 12:33 PM, kamuirei wrote: @John "Perhaps some of the money should go to mandatory Ethics Classes in the MBA and Finance programs they took." A few years back I had a friend taking a business class where half of the class was failed for cheating. The course was business ethics. (No Joke) Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 1:02 PM, dmeredit wrote: TMFFlightsuit and Tom Thanks for your replies. Now we can reach agreement. Do I think that companies who accepted cash from the government should hand out bonuses - no? Do I think that a company that is clearly failing should hand out bonuses - no. Do I think that many of the top Executives at certain Wall St firms were used to excessive salaries, perks, bonuses and spending - absolutely yes - and from personal experience (even down to the private elevators so that would not have to mix with the "regular" employees). What I was reacting to was tarring the whole industry with the same brush - and using the $18B as a number to justify the position. Remember - much of this is going to firms that have not asked for or accepted any aid, and for hardworking individuals who do not fall into the categories above. Please, before you slam all of us next time, think about your words. After all, this kind of blanket "all xxx people are yyyy" is what this country has fought so hard to move away from. As to the question of clawbacks - I would fully support that in the TARP provisions. Would I support it as a regulation for private/public companies not accepting aid - no. I believe that is up to the board of directors to negotiate into the compensation programs they put in place. And frankly, this is one reason why I sometimes vote against proposed compensation programs as a shareholder (when I am given the chance to do so). Anyway - as you say - interesting debate. Back to my taxes.... Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 3:41 PM, vriguy wrote: Bravo! President Obama and Congress - Tom gave voice to all of us investors - are you listening? Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 3:59 PM, sungrove wrote: Damn, after reading all these comments, I'm amazed at all the Socialists and redistributionists that frequent this board. Doesn't bode well for the future. (written by pmbarrett) redistributionists, apparently a new word, but I imagine a pretty old idea. I think the idea is that if you keep saying t over and over people will eventually believe it. In this case, I guess the idea is, as I've heard it, these hard working people went and made a fortune and now the government wants to take it and give it to the poor lazy people. On the surface, I guess it's an understandable lament. In this country, whether it's true or not, we have accepted the idea that if you work hard enough and are smart enough you can and most likely will be rewarded with wealth. So, we end up constantly accepting the agenda of the wealthy because 'maybe I'll be fortunate enough to be one of them eventually'. The problem with this is that there is so much more to the equation. What makes a country worth living in? Is it right or fair or does it even matter that there are such huge disparities in wealth? Do even the wealthy eventually want an overall wealthier populace or are they fine with walling themselves off? Do the wealthy owe a greater amount of taxes based on the fact that their success partly depends on a stable government environment ? I think that the questions like this can just go on and on like this. But how can any wealthy person objectively look at what has taken place over the last ten years in this country and still think that we have a wealth 'redistribution' problem? According to the World Institute for Development Research ( http://www.gizmag.com/go/6571/ ) the richest 2 percent of the worlds population owns half of the worlds wealth. Most of that wealth is in the United States, Canada, Europe and Australia. The wealthy have also totally won the framing battle. To be able to effectively frame the wealth debate to say that the wealthy are threatened by 'redistributionists' one would have to think that the middle class and poor somehow had enough lobbying power to get the ear of Congress, enough thinktank power to reframe the debate, or even enough time to deal with any of it since for many it's just become a survival exercise. No, I think the redistribution of wealth has been and probably will continue to be from the bottom up. Every time a guy earning minimum wage goes to work and works hard for a company wealth is being transfered upward. Every time a lobbyist gains some favor from our representatives for everything from football stadiums to Boeing tax breaks and bank bale outs, money is flowing from the bottom up. So, where is the outrage in all of this at the lobbying power that has not only created a bank bailout process but left it with apparently no strings attached? If it were up to me, I would say to bankers and other execs, OK live by your retoric. Allow your business to fail just as you wanted no government intervention while it was succeeding. Left totally to the market place, would we ever get any kind of true information about companies with which to invest? And isn't this something that a capitalist finds to be just as important as anything else? Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 5:26 PM, TMFDiogenes wrote: "Left totally to the market place, would we ever get any kind of true information about companies with which to invest? And isn't this something that a capitalist finds to be just as important as anything else?" Well put, sungrove. It's especially at times like these, when our nation has the power to remake our world or let it unravel, that we must remember: Capitalism is no more "natural" than Hobbes' state of nature. However desirable many of us find that particular system, we should keep in mind that it doesn't come about on its own, nor is it self-sustaining. Humans created it, and it takes humans to maintain it. What exactly that entails -- clawbacks, bailouts, lobbyist reform, reshaping Wall Street's culture, preempting "too big to fail" by limiting size and failure (ahem - leverage) -- those are thorny questions. But I think we can all agree that taxpayers can't afford to continue letting (certain) Wall Street executives decide what rules of the game are best for the country. Report this Comment On February 01, 2009, at 10:38 PM, sungrove wrote: Billinboca wrote: I'm in Boca in my gated community, in my $7 Million home with my bonus money. So are all my friends. Next weekend we will be in Vail. In capitalism, the strong are permitted to keep spoils far outsized than the weak. YOu people are the weak. Our bonuses are secure. Your losses in our stocks will set your retirements back, will destroy your kids educations, and will confine you to minimal existence. Do I care.. not really. Can you take my money from me. Ha ha. Try. You can do nothing. Get used to it. It's called capitalism. Get your frustrations out in this forum. It will make it easier for me in the future." end quote way to go Bill, congratualations on your successful scumbagery. I don't really believe in hell. But what would the point of that be, you and your fellow jerks are busy making it here on earth. Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 8:28 AM, TMFTomG wrote: In reply to the comment about ethics courses, if this fiasco doesn't force the top five MBA programs to make meaningful changes to their curriculum, that's a real shame. These have been the feeder schools to Wall Street, and the compensation plan on Wall Street (changeable over time by these graduates) set the whole structure up for collapse. The one-year monster bonus, it turns out, actually does motivate unethical behavior. Report this Comment On February 02, 2009, at 2:26 PM, denlong wrote: Free Markets ALWAYS favor the big players Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 5:00 AM, antonacid wrote: Hey Tom, Although I agree with you in principle, I don't think sending these guys to jail is the solution. They have in fact done no crime. They've only used the system they themselves have so cleverly designed. You didn't offer any solutions to this magnificent problem. May I suggest a few? The real problem of the Corporate Capitalist System, is that the roosters are running the hen house, and the fox's are their best friends. The laws that govern corporations are intrinsically flawed. The Boards of company A are the Execs at companies B and C, and the Boards of B and C are the Execs at company A. Additionally, the Board of Directors set Executive compensation, while the Execs generally guarantee the pay and perks of the Boards. Either directly or indirectly, this is how the game works. One simple law could change this for the better. The law being that no one can serve as both an executive at any company while serving on the board of another. Another law would state that to be on the Board you would be required to be a substantial "purchased" stock holder, rather than a compensated stock "taker". I'm all for reasonable and considerate compensation for performance, but this current system of corporate governance and greed is grossly absurd and pathological. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 11:52 AM, joseroncal wrote: On his ninth day in office, President Obama took a broad swipe at Wall Street, calling the $18.4 billion in bonuses for 2008 "the height of irresponsibility" and "shameful." He said that Wall Street had come to the government for badly needed help and that taxpayers provided the funds to prevent a further meltdown, but that Wall Street had returned the favor by acting completely irresponsible instead of showing restraint and discipline when the rest of the country is dealing with economic hardship. His remarks sparked a lot of reaction by others who were armed and ready to lash out at Wall Street. Senator Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee has threatened to confiscate the bonuses, Senator Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) wants a $400,000 compensation cap for executives whose companies participated in the government bail out, and New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said he might ask for the return of the $4 billion in bonuses paid by Merrill Lynch & Co. just before being acquired by Bank of America Corp. Conversely, others felt that the term "bonuses" was a mischaracterization and that the money actually fell into the category of commissions and incentives paid to sales teams and operational staff, rather than being exclusively doled out to top executives. Needless to say, it was the lead story for all the news pundits and a hot topic for bloggers. But I think everyone needs to widen the lens here because we're missing the bigger picture. My concern is that once again Washington is reacting under pressure and pushing Obama's stimulus plan without first having a strategic framework in place?a plan that would form a basis for prudent decisions, something that stakeholders could align with and support. We are told that there is no time to waste; that things are getting so bad, quick action is critical, that we don't have a moment to lose. If things are that bad, which by all accounts they seem to be, then all the more reason to step back, take a deep breath and send a task force into retreat to think this thing through. I'd like to know whether or not the money we doled out to the banks included any preconditions regarding bonuses. If not, then, sorry folks, but we the government are stakeholders, and the boards, the CEOs and executives are running the show. Banks are not lending any of the bailout money, but it's my impression that this was the intent for giving them the bailout money in the first place (if, in fact, preconditions to do so were actually included). I'm not sure what the stipulations are regarding the next chunk that's slated for corporations. But I do know that when you give out freebies without a watchdog and clear rules of engagement, corporations will waste taxpayers' money and return like Oliver Twist with, "Please sir, may I have some more?" This sudden outburst over Wall Street bonuses seems like too little too late and however it shakes out, it isn't likely to do much to get the economy moving or put people back to work. Let's put this in perspective. Whether warranted or not, bonuses are just the tip of the iceberg. I'd like to know how much more of the taxpayer bailout dollars have been squandered and where. Talk is cheap and while the attention right now is on $18.4 billion, there are bigger fish to fry. How about the burden of the national debt?which is somewhere in the trillions?or the falling home prices with foreclosures at record highs, and unemployment running rampant? On Friday, as expected, the GDP shrank by 3.8% but it could have fallen to 5.1% as the output was boosted by a rise in inventories of goods that were produced but not sold in the fourth quarter. So excluding the inventory adjustment, GDP fell at a 5.1% rate, which economists say more accurately reflects the nation?s weakness. This economic crisis transcends political parties. Both Republicans and Democrats have a stake in the outcome and right now both parties are parading their shortcomings. But I'll withhold judgment on Obama's stimulus package until I see a detailed breakdown. At that point I'm sure I'll have plenty to say. If you found this article helpful, visit www.financialspeculation.com to claim your own copy of Jose Roncal?s popular FREE REPORT, ?12 Keys to Smart Speculating in Tough Times.? It?s chock full of valuable insight on how to rebuild your nest egg. While you are there, check out ?The Big Gamble: Are You Investing or Speculating?? See for yourself why Donald Trump has called it ?a great read!? Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 3:49 PM, vmgator01 wrote: I disagree. THOUSANDS not hundreds, should go, not to jail, but to work farms to earn their bread the rest of their life, with all of their, and their families, assets confiscated. vmgator01 Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 5:51 PM, dave20011 wrote: They are all filth total absolute filth and may they all rot in a living hell. I can't emphasize my repulsion for these scumbag reptiles. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 6:08 PM, ecoloney wrote: One cannot follow the god of this world AND have any ethics. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 6:40 PM, rojoreno wrote: i used to be proud of the USA's democracy and free market system--but "the smartest people in the room" be they political, and/or business leaders have used and abused it for their self aggrandizement; selling their souls and selling out the citizenry to the highest bidder in the name of greed. I am at a loss, I;m hoping that the pendullum will swing the other way---but I would have thought that the USA was a little more advanced and not have devolved to a society where ethics are scarce. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 7:23 PM, SoSuMeNJ wrote: So Tom covered a handful of the financial/corporate thieves by name (bravo) and gave specific, nauseating amounts of money they stole and continue to steal from us directly, or indirectly by causing this economic collapse. Maybe David could write an article about the government thieves whose names deserve to be named, the specific deeds they did (and are doing), and the amount of money they earn(ed), including what they're worth today. Most, if not all, Government officials (and employees!) today "earn" well above the national average and many are millionaires many times over, including members of Congress and Senators. They get lifetime benefits, the likes of which I will never "earn" as a private sector employee, no matter how long I work, including full medical to which they make no contribution, full lifetime pensions (no contribution), etc. all paid by taxpayers, the vast majority of which don't get anywhere near these same benefits. Former Presidents accept pensions in the millions (from taxpayer money) even though they are all already multi-millionaires and earn more millions giving speeches. Talk about, "where is the shame?" Between the corporate and government thieves, irrespective of party affiliation, we are destined to continue down this bottomless pit of financial despair until somebody (sorry, not Obama, based on what he's done so far) actually says "ENOUGH!" and recognizes that the taxpayers (non-government-employees!) need the biggest bailout of all; we simiply cannot afford to continue paying these government employees their millions in wages and benefits! And, last but not least, have you TRIED to get a government job these days? If you think the tax code is an out of control mess, take a look at one of the government job application websites and try to apply for a job. I dare you. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 7:32 PM, jprental wrote: you are so right we do have to act. but calling these jerks is not enough. there is enough laid off people in this country to form a march on washington. we need to make our case in person. the more people that do this the more they will listen. our whole lives are going down the drain but the politicians are all millionaires . they dont care about us. during the revolutionary war they had the boston tea party. we need the tar and feather party . and when we are done we throw them all in the potomac. but we have to act now. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 7:40 PM, papamikekilo wrote: This discussion seems to be missing the most salient point. The real issue is not compensation, or clawbacks, etc., it is related to fraud. Any company that engaged in "off-the-balance-sheet" or "off-the-books" accounting, or the creation of "shell companies", or similar antics which resulted in hiding information from shareholders, investors, and/or the regulators is de facto guilty of fraud - this applies to the executives, the boards, the accountants, and the auditors of said companies as well. Jail time and TOTAL compensation clawback (in terms of fines) for these individuals would most certainly be appropriate. The fact that many of these obfuscating strategies are claimed to be in compliance with GAAP is indicative of the fundamental rot in the financial system as a whole. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 7:57 PM, megadrone wrote: 1.) I agree that all the CEO's, CFO's and all other corporate big wigs that commited crimes should go to jail. 2.) I agree that "All" politian's are at fault, not just Democrats or Republicans."All" of them from the Presidency on down to the lonely county commissioner. Reagan, Clinton, bush & Obama. They are only doing what they need to do to get re-elected. Now, with that said, I have not heard anyone take personal responsibility on any of these forums. 1.) The individualds taking advantage of the so called Varible Rate, Interest Only & the infamous "No Doc" loans on homes that they know they could not afford. Are they Criminals? I would say so. 2>) The individuals taking advantage of the so called Varible Rate, Interest Only & the infamous "No Doc" loans to flip homes for an investment when they knew they had no idea what they were doing. Are they criminals? Again, I would say so. 2.) The individuals that ran up major debt on 10's of credit cards that they knew they would never be able to pay off. Are they criminals. Again, I would say so. In this country we do not have "Debtor's Prison" any more. But we still have laws against "Fraud" for lying about our financial situation. Buffal0Bill Wrote: "The more we try to banish God from our society the more our corporations and institutions will fail because more and more of the men who lead them will have no regard for God and His principles." Will let me tell you something. They start out every session of the house with a prayer, they start out every session of the Senate with a prayor, the Presidents swear on a bible when they are inaugurated (even though our constitution does "not" require it. Our constitution plainly say's "There shall be no religous test for holding public office", but we do require it,try saying your an "Atheist" and see how far you get in public office. Our prisons are full of God fearing individuals. 100's of priest's have been convicted of child sexual abuse, so don't give me that religous crap. The real solution for keeping this from happening again is "Education". We need to educate ourselves, and we don't have to have a degree to do this, for example, I don't have a college degree. I have learned what i know from the school of hard knocks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I make a comfortable living close to a six figure income. I own my own home, have 3 new cars (all paid for) and no other debt. I'm in my 40's Oh yea, I'm also physically handicapped and am still employed by the same company. I have never ever taken a government handout. I believe the biggest problem with our society is instead of being leaders, the majority of society are blind followers. If you don't believe me listen to Rush Limbaugh and all the "Ditto" heads that spout his exact words and have no ideas of their own. And the leftist liberals that believe that if the "Media" says it, it has to be the truth. Alright i'm done with my rant. Just one more thing, We get what we deserve... Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 8:43 PM, doucme2005 wrote: Agreed regarding bankers. I would also extend these comments to the worthless who took these loans knowing they could not repay, to those who walked away from mortgages because they were underwater, not caring in the least about their obligations, to the players who thought they could buy a house today and flip it next month for 10% profit. Lets not leave out the government, who through fannie and freddie fostered and encourage high risk lending (so called sub prime loans) and to legislational changes that made it possible for banks to again get involved in practices that had been rightfully banned since the last depression. Lets put these idiots in jail too. Plenty of blame to go around but at the end of the day the blame rests squarely with those who took on obligations that they either can't---or growing more all the time---won't honor. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 9:30 PM, graceupongrace wrote: The key issues being missed are human nature and morals. We've taken the Bible out of schools. Let's not talk about right or wrong because there are no absolutes. This is man at his finest. This is what we do when we don't think there is a God to whom we are accountable. There is a hell. This isn't it. No one is going to get away with anything. Until a person's nature is changed, their actions cannot change. Yes, the truth is hard to accept because it starts with each one of us realizing we do the same things: we all lie, cheat, and hurt other people. The solution: Jesus. Report this Comment On February 03, 2009, at 10:56 PM, foolish14U wrote: That these guys were and are greedy beyond reason goes without saying. Imagine running a company into the ground and receiving a golden parachute on the way out the door. Everyone is talking about this and we may see a revolution if Congress doesn't act soon to stop the greed. How about a 100% tax on compensation in any form over say $5,000,000,000 per year for any public company employee. I also like the idea of those only owning purchased shares having seats on the compensation committees of public companies. It's a good old boys network now that perpetuates the greed. Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 4:41 AM, rider00 wrote: I think the best action to take (perhaps a 7th option) is a boycott. When we really hate a company, we don't buy their products. So pull all your money out of these corrupt mega banks and use small, local banks (they're still FDIC insured). In fact, you can even keep open a free checking account with no min balance that you use for bill paying. Only deposit enough money via ACH (free) transfers when you need to write checks. Then you can actaully be a financial drag on these banks. If we deny them of our deposits, they will wither and die. And for God sakes, now that the investment banks have converted to bank holding companies, they will look for deposits. Please don't aid them no matter what free toaster or other fancy offer they provide for opening an account. I would also boycott any smaller banks that have been bought out by private equity shops (such as JC Flowers buying up IndyMac). These titans of debt pillaged the system as well. Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 9:07 AM, changeisgood wrote: What happened to bonuses being a reward for simply profits?No profit,no reward.What happened to accounting practices and audits to be used to make sure a business reports acurately and honesly to reflect the true bottom line. You should use an accountant to protect your business and make sure your company is making a profit.they should not be used just to hide facts from stock holders and the tax man. Think about it! All these banks should have been reporting losses. Instead they tricked themselfs into paying taxes on profits that are not there.Truth in accounting would be a good change. Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 9:13 AM, megadrone wrote: I am happy that the President is finally limiting the pay of executives that took bailout money. He needs to put more controls on these companies. Note to all Rush fans: No this is not socialism. He's only limiting pay for executives that are taking money from the government, not all companies. If these companies filed bankrupcy the judge would limit the pay and bonuses. To graceupongrace: You might lie, cheat, and hurt other people, I personally don't do any of these things I know that I have to answer to myself when I look in the mirror every morning. It's people like you that convince me that I made the right choice. I am an Atheist. Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 11:12 AM, DGrelle wrote: The Boards of Directors on these companies hire the CEOs, set the compensation packages, and are have to agree to the path that the companies follow. To compound the problem they also serve on each others boards. The individuals on the boards are responsible for this mess more than anyone and should be prosecuted - after they pay back the stockholders and the federal government (If the government gave them money). Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 11:34 AM, ulvy1 wrote: Lets just do it the old fashion way and tar-n-feather these people. Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 12:01 PM, megadrone wrote: Is it time for a good old fashion "Revolution"? What do you say? Kick everybody out? Term limits for our polititians? Only 1 term for the new ones? Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 2:55 PM, TMFKnightly wrote: bunngolf made this comment on another article (http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2009/02/04/st.... Thought it was worth including here as well: It is interesting to note in today's article from AP regarding announced restrictions on executive compensation by the government that............. "The pay cap would apply to institutions that negotiate agreements with the Treasury Department for "exceptional assistance" in the future. The restriction would not apply to such firms as American International Group Inc., Bank of America Corp., and Citigroup Inc., that already have received such help." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-caps-executive-pay-tied-... Incredible! Reward the institutions that need to fail to cleanse the system. BG Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 8:07 PM, NorseWarrior wrote: Make no mistake, those of you who see 'guv-mint' as the problem...there were VERY cozy relationships between the firms and the regulators. The politicization of the regulatory agencies over the last decade has contributed significantly to the loose oversight. It's not about more or less regulation; it's about effective regulation. That will only happen when those who are charged with oversight do not have intimate ties with the regulated institutions. RJW Report this Comment On February 04, 2009, at 10:40 PM, MariHelen wrote: We all seem to have some sort of problem identifying what crime has been committed here. Why is that? Isn't it obvious that we are talking about a form of theft? We need Congress to define it as such, for the Supreme Court to test it, and for the Administration to enforce it. Make no mistake about it. A person who takes millions while losing billions of other people's money, while in a position of financial and public trust, is accountable for those losses. No friendly board or previous hiring agreement should take precedence over the financial statements of loss. No executives should be eligible for any extra compensation, stock deals or bonuses if their shareholders lose money. Wall Street Welfare must end. They are not the Americans in need of our support, nor the protection of our laws. Report this Comment On February 05, 2009, at 8:05 AM, alfredh1 wrote: My proposal for a rule is: 1) Define a factor for the max range of compensation packages in a Company! (This max factor in US is ruled by law, the staggering is defined in the company by its shareholders). One example is very easy to calculate: lets say max factor=1000 => so with a min salary of 1000$/month for the poorest guy, the highest executive may get a 1000000$/month salary. If you then just state this includes all extra benefits and bonusses and stock options, then almost every company could save lots of money... 2) Define a factor for min+max compensation of people for leaving a company: example: as easy as is --- use the monthly salary and multiply with a factor of working years on that company, and if you want, then multiply with a additional X-factor (equal for all employees! in that specific company). If you then state: this min+max X factor is ruled by law for all companys in US, the x-factor for the company is defined in the company by its shareholders). This will solve almost all problems with compensation packages... Why? Because every benefit increase for the exec's has to stay conform with the compensation factors... You would have a easy rule which limits the enormous compensation increases of boards... And the compensation packages when board members leave are defined and fixed and correlated to their responsibility they had in their position and the work they had done (when you think the monthly compensation is correlated to their actual responsibilitys) Easy rules - easy to report in a financial sheet, easy calculations when there is a pay increase/layoffs etc. Report this Comment On February 05, 2009, at 11:46 AM, gebanks wrote: We have a minimum wage, why not a maximum wage? Maybe it could be set at 100 times the salary of the lowest paid worker in the company. Why does this country have such obscenely paid executives. This myth that they couldn't find anyone with the talent to do it is rubbish. Plenty of people would be qualified to do at better job than these clowns. It isn't rocket science. Report this Comment On February 05, 2009, at 3:09 PM, remfin101 wrote: gebanks: Brilliant. But we can't stop there, can we? I think not. Since baseball and football are granted "monopoly" privileges by the USA, they have to be included, yes? So, based on your plan, if the lowest paid employee for a baseball team makes $8/hr (and I'm being generous, actually, because they don't work 52 weeks a year), A-Rod can only make $1,664,000/year. I'm good with that. Also, since "plenty of people would be qualifed" to entertain us, we can't let them escape. Of course, the lowest-paid job in Hollywood might be around $20 grand, so that means Oprah has to fork over $273 million (we let her keep $2 million), 50 Cent gives up $148 million, Spielberg says buh-bye to $128 million (although he may get some special dispensation 'cause he got hammered by Madoff, I dunno), oh the humanity!!! even Tina Fey would have to give up $2.6 million. But hey, everyone's gotta do their share, right? We're just spreadin some of that wealth around. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:35 AM, dancingfish wrote: Tom, I agree entirely with the sentiment of your article. I would love to see some of the worst offenders (Mozilo) go to jail for life as they so richly deserve. They key to this catastrophe, as you noted, is the incentive systems established by top management. But culpability does not stop at top management. Many, many employees took full and heartless advangtage of the incentives with full knowledge their actions were, at best, unethical. The problem is that we cannot legislate ethical behavior without going beyond the requirement of proving intent. That is a very slippery slope that I hope we do not slide down. Something, clearly, needs to be done to . I believe that a new regulatory system is needed that focuses on the incentives corporations can provide to their management and employees. This was at the heart of the housing/financial crash and is what needs to be addressed. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:01 PM, czbill wrote: FIGHT BACK. Don't pay any more in taxes than you absolutely have to. Use regional banks that have strong balance sheets and stronger customer service. I seem to recall that certain execs in the telcom and energy sectors went to jail. Ebber's wife bemoans the fact that "no one understands what her husband went through..." I do. I lost my 401K with that ****. And he belongs in jail as do the execs of the banking industry. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 12:42 PM, jake1943 wrote: Great article about greed, stupidity, ect. I believe there should be criminal charges. However, what was missing is the fact that prior to this greed and stupidity there were Govt. Sponsored Enterprises which were the root of this crisis. Politicians were aware of these problems and side-stepped them. Politicians obstructed reform of Fannie Mae. In hearings of the House Financial Services Commitee and Senate Banking Committee many Democratic Senators and Congressmen completely ignored what was unfolding. These are the same people involved in the stimulus package. There are rocks that are smarter than the majority of these people. Rep. Barney Frank is a poster child for term limits. What were his qualifications other than seniority? Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Tinka82 wrote: Hooray, Tom Gardner! These things have needed to be said for a long, long time. While I would not venture to say profit is a dirty word, it's long past time to quit rewarding, coddling, and catering to this beast we call our banking system. The market structure has been heavily weighted in their favor for a long time. As a real estate appraiser, I can attest to the ethics issues and problems that exist in the system and are largely ignored by the regulators. Honest appraisers have been avoided for assignments in favor of more 'compliant' appraisers to get the deal done. The engagement of the valuation provider is often done by individuals that really aren't interested in knowing the truth, but are either directly obtaining a commission or working for a party who is counting on the loan to close and doesn't get paid if it doesn't. Most times, the only party who'd be left holding the bag when the truth of a faulty valuation was revealed was often the investor who had no control or involvement in the engagement of a valuation professional. Why Franklin Raines, Jaime Gorelick, Angelo Mozillo, and others mentioned in this article are still walking free is beyond me. As citizens and consumers, we need to be putting the pressure on our elected officials for justice. Further, we need to be cognizant of which companies are and aren't ethical and QUIT doing business with those that fail the litmus test. We each have the power to hit them in the profit center. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:11 PM, wgaudreau wrote: jail or boot hill .......either one would be OK with me Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 2:59 PM, FoolKMP wrote: I have read many posts to many blogs similar to this one. In addition I have spoken with a fair share of people from all walks of life recently, and with very few exceptions, eveyone is hurting, some very, very badly. There is a very large simmmering, almost boiling over discontent is this country that I think will reach a breaking point if the new administration and the new congress underestimate the will of the people. It could very well come to a revolution of some sort, and I'm not talking about a nice boycott. The people are downright pissed and eventually that will result in some very unpleasant scenes televised on CNN as the people take out there frustration on elected officials, and corporate executives.I would hope this does not happen, but a mob thinks differently than an individual, and the mob is very, very unhappy. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:07 PM, LongLookNH wrote: The only people in the news the past year that deserve the millions of dollars of bonuses paid to failed bankers are the pilot and crew of US Air Flight 1549. These are professionals without any ego who do the job year after year and solve a problem when they encounter it. If Captain Sully was a banker, they would have paid him millions if there were no survivors of the "water landing". Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 3:11 PM, TimeForATeaParty wrote: Jail? Are you kidding? I won't shed a tear as these people start getting BLOWN away !!!! They are SOULLESS !!! Let me open your minds a little. I'm middle aged so I have some time. Have you REALLY thought about the elderly that have worked all their lives believing in the American Way. At 75 plus years old, what are they supposed to do, GET A JOB? What are they supposed to do about food, medicine, health care, etc. Just the mental stress and anguish will kill many.The government and Wall Street are responsible. So many knew what was going on and they either turned their eyes or were complicit. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:00 PM, JaxToTheCall wrote: The system of greed and corruption, and those who created them, ran them and fine-tuned them will get worse than jail. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:17 PM, kerammf wrote: They are talking about bonuses. I am talking about executions at least some of them. That's what they do in China. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:24 PM, DS2MTP wrote: SHAMELESS is an understatement! The government says they are not going to do anything about the $18.4 billion in excessive bonuses. They are only going to limit the companies that take the new bailout. The president doesn't have a clue about leading this country, period! The government failed the American people and has done so for years. You must instill investor confidence in the market by enacting laws and regulations that limit excessive compensation and bonuses to executives. What happened to the checks and balances for the banking industry? That's right, they were revoked back in 1999 because banking lobbyist convinced lawmakers that the industry and free market could police themselves! Is this 2009 or 1929? Why should CEOs be paid for bankrupting the very company they are in charge of? Collectively, we all feel the same crunch in the economy, it just impacts the wealthy far less than the poor. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 4:30 PM, qwertypo wrote: STOP !! Take a deep breath - Back up and take a look at the Big Picture. CEO's are not the ones to blame.. It is the Board(s) of Directors that elect or appoint or hire them that are as much to blame if not more so. Take a look at any big corporation and you will see that the Board Members are usually CEO's of other big companies and therefore it is business as usual in the "good 'ol boy network". A Board of Directors is responsible for the Company that they represent and therefore are responsible to the employees and owners and shareholders of the Company as to who they put in charge of running the day to day operations of the Company. It is totally IRRESPONSIBLE for a Board of Directors to enact or put in place any form of an Incentive Package for anyone that works for the Company or is hired to direct the Company that is in any way not directly connected to their performance or to the PROFITS of the Company. In other words.. if you fail to make the Company profitable then all you get is a measly salary.. BUT .. if the Company makes a BIG PROFIT then they can make a 'Bonus' based as a PERCENTAGE of the PROFIT. Most of these Boards of Directors are "greedy" too and they want to hire someone who 'supposedly' has taken another company to big profits. They fall all over themselves in trying to lure this person to their Company and they FAIL to put in place any assurances that this person has to perform well at all. It is a 'feeding frenzy' of no equal... WE WANT YOU these Board of Directors say... here's your jet airplane.. here's your 50 Million Dollar Salary.. here's your 150 Million Dollar Severence Package. Where is the GUESS WHAT... You don't get any of these UNLESS the Company makes at least 300 Billion (after taxes). Oh well... most members of Boards of Directors have it where their pockets get lined with money whether or not the Company makes any money or not. Oh yeah.. I forgot the investors.. The majority of you are STUPID.. STUPID.. STUPID.. to have even invested in the likes of any company as I have described above. Most of you are like SHEEP.. You don't care where you are going as long as someone else is leading.. you just go along with the flow. You don't base your buying and selling of your stocks on anything substantial at all.. if the Fed Chairman appeared before the House or Senate and 'wiped his nose'.. Stocks would immediately fall.. if he laughed at some nonsensical joke.. Stocks would immediately go up. BOO !!! Gee did that scare you? Did you sell? If I were to say that Paris Hilton is buying ENRON stock most of you would be on it like flies on s---. Don't blame the greedy CEO's .. EVERYONE who "plays the Stock Market" is just as bad. Get a REAL JOB that earns you real money.. and Invest a little bit - and let it sit - for your future. If you like a high stakes 'game' then go to Las Vegas. How can we "Invest in America" when we have leeches sucking it out just as fast or faster than it is going in?? Where is the "Incentive" for a business to grow and then give back to its Investors?? If I were ever to want to capitalize and start a business.. I sure would not want public investors.. I would make it 'private' and only for those who believe in me for the 'long haul' and won't be bailing on me when the occasional 'dips' are encountered. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 5:19 PM, BearOfTheSW wrote: Unfortunately there is not a lot to say about WS executives (CEOs and about 3 layers deeper) that can be said within he Fool guidelines. There is no doubt that GREED is their single mantra---ME,ME,ME..oh yeah, and my friends on the board. Don't forget the Board Members who approved the compensation packages! (for each other). If there is a way to put some of these folks in Jail--lets find it. As for all the mortgage problems--these we can ID the culprits fairly easily--start with real estate salespersons, then brokers, appraisers, loan officers, and up the scale. They all knew they were doing the wrong things==but everyone else was doing it too. Easy when the people you associate with in business are Greedy and Uncaring too. Now the Nation is in great peril--and they all sit on their ill gotten gains and watch the rest of us try and deal with it. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:14 PM, swantly wrote: qwertypo: I think to say all those who invest in stocks are equally to blame is ridiculous. This is not Las Vegas. When you buy stock, you buy a piece of a company. The management of the company has a responsibility to the shareholders to operate the company in a responsible manner. If the police stood by while crimes were being committed and did nothing, would you say the victims were just as much to blame as the police? The point is these people who ran the companies had a job to do, and rather than take the shareholders' interests in consideration, they were deceptive and unethical. That's the sad reality. If you blame the shareholders give your head a shake. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:31 PM, lonewolfstudio wrote: If it smells like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck. The only law at work is "(S)He who contributes the most to a campaign fund will control their own destiny". Where was the SEC?? Forget jail time. If eternal damnation were a viable option, I say: YEAH! I would advocate having the courts or the FBI investigate the SEC. Jail THEM and, then replace the losers with a more powerful organization with authority and real power to BLACKLIST and prosecute ALL those responsible. If criminal charges are not a viable option (thanks to the SEC), provide access and funds to bring suit against all of the individuals in the decision loops of these companies, without qualification. If that cannot be done, then democracy and the capital markets are officially DEFUNCT. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Kensdumb wrote: Tom, How about blaming the real culprets ... CONGRESS. They are the ones that should read the Constitution and stick with only the programs detailed therein. Let the private sector go (Moses would like that) Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:32 PM, Kensdumb wrote: Hey Tom, Put the blame where it belongs - Government! Who mandated "Affordable Housing"? Democrats (socialists) in the Congress. Read Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, et al. They are the ones who should be made to "walk the plank." Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:33 PM, mkroehler wrote: Better still, eliminate the Community Reinvestment Act, and that way congress will be unable to force the banks to overlook their underwriting guidelines going forward. Imagine a world where buyers are actually required to qualify for a loan, instead of the feds forcing banks to loan without predjudice... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:38 PM, piinob wrote: Every one wants to blame the Government for this meltdown. The subprime mess is less than ten percent of it. The rest is all derivative based and the blame for that is with the folks who did not want to regulate and oversee what the crooks at the banks were doing. Get a grip on reality folks. Do you really believe Greenspan when he says he never imagined that the bankers would do something NOT in the best interest of their shareholders? If you believe all that crap you deserve to be screwed out of your money. Sounds as if everyone here has been listening to the hypocritical drug addict like Limbozo. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Runningamok wrote: Its fascinating to read this debate by investors in America from the UK where we have our own small bank problems. As Brecht said in the Threepenny Opera " Dont rob a bank ..Own one!" Today I looked at the Congressional Oversight Committee report which notes how the US Treasury in the first Bail Out paid the banks...like $100 for just $66 of value for the tax payers whereas private investors like Warren Buffet got $123 of value. Something wrong there and clearly the committee are upset at the way the Treasury and therefore the whole country got taken for fools by the banks even when they were in deep trouble. The bonus scandal just adds to it and shows what deeply ingrained rogue capitalist greed ethics will do. They really do have no sense of personal shame or idea of a benefit to society. As our own dear Mrs Thatcher once famously said " There is no such thing as Society" Well its up to society to prove to the Masters of the Universe that actually there is such a thing and that it will not be taken for a fool... Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 7:41 PM, piinob wrote: Imagine a world where a AAA rating means someone actuyally took the time to see what the investment actually was rather than just stamping it and selling it. Imagine a world where the SEC actually investigates businesses, where banks don't get exempted from capital requirements for being big campaign contributors. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 8:46 PM, zookeeperfool wrote: It would be a wonderful thing to see a special 80% tax added to anyone receiving a bonus, in any form, from any company that received bailout money. At least most of the money would be recouped. Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 10:37 PM, pedro777 wrote: This article (along with the comments) should be nailed to every door on Capitol Hill until all these bankers are behind bars for their crimes against society. These competent and smart people (the s0-called best and the brightest) all knew only too well exactly where their actions were leading to. Most knew that if they took their bonuses and fled before the inevitable economic crash they could "get away with their crimes". Disgraceful. May God have mercy on their souls (and help those innocent victims who are now or will become unemployed or who have lost their pensions because of the actions of a few criminals). Report this Comment On February 06, 2009, at 11:35 PM, Oldmonkey wrote: Don't forget Chris Dodd, and Barney Frank also need to join the general population of the nearest Federal Penetentiary. Hope they get so many boyfriends their deviant pursuits become as painful as their rape of the American public has been to its citizens. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:03 AM, 1960scollegekid wrote: I usually don't get involved with these discussions, I feel it adds nothing to the solution of the problem under discussion; but, let me, in my small way, attempt to shine some light on all this... Back in the 1960's, the time of flower power and the beginning of the Vietnam "conflict", when service bashing was all the rage on college campus's...the biggest thing most of the professors were teaching those young impressionable minds was.... "LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER ONE!" I don't doubt that most of the current white collar criminals were in the Ivy Covered Buildings about then, and heard that phrase at least 6 times a day, 5 days a week, 10 months a year, for at least 4 years, from the mouths of their professional educators. I know I did. That's all this crop of thieves did, they looked out for themselves and everyone else be damned. Thank you all you liberal college educators may your retirement funds and those endowments that have financed your colleges be stolen by one of your students......like they have taken my retirement income. Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 12:28 AM, jbromet wrote: All the money being thrown around for the "stimulous package" is being done in a panic. The first round of bailouts didn't work; the next round won't either. The "leaders" and "experts" haven't learned from history nor have an understanding of human nature. This pathetic scene is like asking a bunch of diehard alcoholics to tend the bar. I guess there's no crime in being incompetent and/or stupid. But if there were true justice, these men and women (legislators and wall street criminals) would be in chains. I guess it's too much to expect them to commit suicide out of shame. Ya, like that's going to happen! Report this Comment On February 07, 2009, at 3:20 AM, killben wrote: IT STINKS.. WHAT KIND OF COMPENSATION POLICY IS THIS.. WHAT KIND OF A***h*** YOU HAVE TO BE TO TAKE HOME SUCH PAY PACKETS WHEN THE COMPANY GOES BANKRUPT AND THOUSANDS LOSE THEIR JOBS WHAT DO YOU THINK IT SHOWS Add your comment. ArticleComments.showTools(); Compare Brokers TD AMERITRADE Open Account more info ShareBuilder Open Account more info Power E*Trade Open Account more info Scottrade Open Account more info Fool Disclosure SPONSORED LISTINGS Make Wiser Investments Save, Organize & Monitor your Investment Ideas with ImpactOven - Free Trial. www.impactoven.com How To: Trading Options Free CD-ROM that will teach you how to trade. No credit card required. Free: Get Stock Tips, Buys and Sells, and More Get a Free Weekly Investing Newsletter with Access to a Free Stockpicking Tool. Join Today! Invest in Medical Imaging! 15% Return, $25k min. Earn a Monthly Distribution w/ Expert-run Mobile Imaging Centers! IRA-eligible. $25K min. investment The Coming Natural Gas Boom Obama's "Repower America" initiative will pour hundreds of billions into new energy projects - creating an estimated 3 million NEW U.S. jobs! U.S. oil and natural gas production will surge... handing profits hand-over-fist to one leading manufacturer of oil and gas pipelines and equipment for tapping new oil and gas wells. Find out the name of The Motley Fool's Top Pick for 2009 in a new FREE report called, "The Only Energy Stock You'll Ever Need"! Buy a Link Now DocumentId: 820307, ~/articles/articlehandler.aspx, 2/7/2009 5:09:10 AM Report This Comment Use this area to report a comment that you believe is in violation of the community guidelines. Our team will review the entry and take any appropriate action. Enter your comments here... Sending report... Email Contact Us Delicious Print Digg RSS What Fools Are Saying Pull Your Head Out, Mr. President 1 hour ago: Comment added by uclayoda87 WE MUST DO SOMETHING!!! 1 hour ago: Comment added by DaretothREdux Two years recession, or ten years of hell? (Video) 1 hour ago: Blog post added by kaskoosek Get involved! ? Most Recent This Just In: Upgrades and Downgrades Feb 6 at 4:25 PM 3 Stocks Ready to Roar Feb 6 at 4:16 PM Throw This Stock Away Feb 6 at 4:13 PM Most Popular Articles Fool Blog: Let's Audit Everyone in Washington3 days ago Vegas Proves Reckless for Wells Fargo 1 day ago ?Buy American? and the Death of Competition2 days ago Feb 6 at 4:03 PM Market Summary DJIA 8,280.59 +217.52 +2.70% S&P 500 868.60 +22.75 +2.69% NASD 1,591.71 +45.47 +2.94% Sponsored by: Related Tickers AIG BAC BRK-B COST JNJ American International Group, Inc. CAPS Rating 3/5 Stars $1.04 +0.04 (+4.00%) Outperform2116 Underperform315Rate This Stock Is Obama Crying Wolf With This S... Feb 6 at 1:13 PM 2-Star Stocks Poised to Plunge: ... Feb 6 at 11:53 AM Vegas Proves Reckless for Wells ... Feb 5 at 2:22 PM All stories about AIG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From releyes at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 12:26:09 2009 From: releyes at gmail.com (Dr. Rima Laibow) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:26:09 -0500 Subject: [GJM] everything you wanted to know about Israel and how it all started.... In-Reply-To: References: <8726A635-2219-4023-A506-9970308FAB6B@phisciences.com> Message-ID: <503a10ac0902081126w296f3c48h4a4cc223000e27d9@mail.gmail.com> My take, and remember, Stephie, I am Jewish: As Napoleon said, money does, indeed, know no patriotism. And that is what is wrong with this analysis. Franklin D. Roosevelt, beloved of US Jews, turned down an offer from Hitler to send him all of Europe's Jews with a written reply which stated "Why would we accept Europe's offal?" (Hannah Arendt, "The War Against the Jews") Why would Hitler have made that offer if he could have gotten rid of them AND made $2M in the process? The Rothchilds were financing countries and setting them into war long before the Second World War and will continue to do that whether Israel exists or not. Yes, the Rothchilds AND the Bushes AND the Rockefellers AND the Walkers AND the Harrimans and all of their minions financed both sides of the Russian Revolution, the rise of the Nazi parties (Rockefeller sent his personal PR man, John Ivey, to run a private "finishing school" for Goerhring, Goerbles and Hitler) and pretty much every war in the last several centuries that I know about. But WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE ROTHCHILDS BEING JEWISH? Pardon my ignorance, but you cannot have it both ways: either money has a motherland or it does not. The Rothchilds were, and are, incredibly maniupulative and dangerous to all of humanity and to all of liberty. Would the condemnation be as virulent if they were Christians? The Saudis seem perfectly able to find ways to lend money (for example, they just lent the failing US economy $300 Billion) without having to change religion. The "history" of the Kazars is distorted, at best. They were, to the best of my knowledge, doing just fine as Christian money lenders until their King converted. Why call them "Psuedo" jews if the decendants of Constantine, the Emporer of Rome who conveniently converted to Christianity are not called "pseudo" Christians. This is, I am afraid, just another piece of unfriendly propaganda. I would say that I am a Zionist because I believe that it is necessary for the State of Israel to exist. I am not a world dominationist. I believe that Hitler was allowed to kill 16.5 million people and that some of them happened to be Jews, some Gypsies, some Communists, etc., because the people running the show, and financing the mad men, are genocidalists. I believe that the people setting up the new Feudalism which is nearly upon us are not Zionists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. They are mad men, profound psychopaths and must be seen as such. They use religion, money, statism, and whatever else comes to hand to acheive their ends: and one of their powerful tools is manipulated hate, like the piece below. As you know, I have been writing about this each time I encounter a piece which stimulates us to hate and fear one another instead of hating and fearing the manipulators. My own father, has, in his later years, become a purveyor of anti-Islamic hatred. How sad. How tragic for us all that we are so easily manipulated and deflected to come to the point where we are once again buying the old lies. I do not know if that helps, Steffie, but it makes sense to me. I hate the hate mongers. I fear the decievers. All every group of people want is to live safe, secure lives in which to raise their children. Anything else is carefully stimulated by those who profit from their manipulated hatred. Israel is committing attrocities which are unjustified and unspeakable in Palestine. This proves that they are fallable and human like every other nation. India killled 10 million of its Hindus and Muslims in the bloody wake of its indpendence. After the blood bath, Islam was no truer, nor was Hinduism. Are Indians any more, or less, evil than anyone else because they were so easily led and seduced into senseless violence? Were the British who financed that senseless violence more, or less, evil than the Indians who committed it or the Israelis who are now committing atrocities? Indefensible, true, and unthinkable, but sadly, just part of the stupidity of being human and shortsighted. Christians and the witch hunts - 1.5 million women tortured and hanged, burned at the stake Pol Pot and Cambodians - 2 million innocents tortured and killed Joseph Stalin - 30 million Russians killed Mao Tse Tung -10 million Chinese and how about the US and the Native inhabitants? I think the point is clear: this is the saddest, and strangest ability of humans and it is not limited to Jews or Hindues or Zionists, or atheists or Christians or Muslims. It is what we do when we forget to be human. And this inhumanity is clearly infectious. It is up to us and our real kin, awake humans, to stem the flow of hatred and what it leads to, whenever, and wherever, we can. And when we do not, we allow ourselves to become part of the hating, hurting, death-dealing mass of inhuman humanity. Love, Rima On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Sutton wrote: > This is the 'idiots guide" to understanding > Muslem/Israeli/Christian/Zionist roots and relatedness....(I think) > S* > > ----- Original Message -----*From:* Mary > *To:* ***Mary > *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:39 AM > *Subject:* Israel Is Nobody's Friend > > *Israel Is Nobody's Friend* > By Gary Jacobucci > 2-2-9 If civilization can survive the cynical path it's on, future > historians will identify three great cons that were played out upon the > world during this time; the fractional-reserve central-banking system, the > war on terrorism and Israel. All three are equally dangerous to the future > of mankind, are presented with equal deception, and emanate from the same > source. > Much of the intentional confusion surrounding Israel is due to Israel > presenting itself as a Jewish state - it's not Israel is a Zionist state. > When people mention the word Jewish, they are usually mixing together three > very distinct, different elements. > There are the Hebrews...the Semitic race generally referred to in the > bible. Many Hebrews, however, are not Jews, there are also Christian and > Arab Hebrews...all are true Semitic peoples. Then there is Judaism, the > religion. Lastly, there is world Zionism, a geopolitical movement that is > atheistic in nature and worships wealth and power...and all that follows in > its wake. As Joe Biden recently pointed out in a speech given in Israel, > "I'm a Zionist; you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist." > The roots of Zionism, and the House of Rothschild, can be traced back to > the Kazars of Southern Russian an important piece of history that's been > swept under the rug. The Kazars were of mixed Turkish and Mongol blood who > made their living by raiding caravans traveling through their territory. > Eventually, Kazaria became an empire and developed Kings and an aristocracy > who began to look for a way of making a living that was less hazardous to > their health. > With their empire situated at the nexus of the caravan route, the Kazarian > aristocracy decided to create wealth through usury - by charging interest on > money lent. The Kazarian population was about one-third Christian, one-third > Moslem and one-third Jewish - all getting along pretty well together. The > problem was, at that time in the Middle Ages, both the Moslems and > Christians considered charging interest - usury - a sin. Only Judaism > allowed for the charging of interest to the Goyim - the non-Jews. > The aristocrats of the Kazars made the calculated announcement that they > had converted to Judaism, and from that time on, made their living loaning > and exchanging money. After being driven out of Russia, these Kazarian > (pseudo) Jews moved into Eastern Europe, and eventually into Western Europe > and Germany. > Over the centuries, the Kazarians perfected the practice of usury and came > to acquire great wealth and influence in the countries they occupied with > the House of Rothschild emerging as the undisputed master of manipulation. > After seeing that the Rothschilds were financing both sides of the war > between England and France, Napoleon made this insightful statement that > reflects the enormous power they wielded, "When a government is dependent > upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government, control > the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money > has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; > their sole object is gain." > While genuine history shows that the Rothschilds financed the Nazi's into > power; while at the same time financing the war effort in England, the story > of Rabbi Michael Dov-Ber Weismandel illustrates the hidden hand of the > Rothschilds in sacrificing orthodox Jews to allow for the state of Israel to > be created. > In November 1942, Rabbi Weismandel negotiated a deal with the Nazi > government to have all the Jews in Western Europe and the Balkans released > out of Germany for a mere 2 million dollars. Weismandel sent a courier to > the Rothschild-led World Zionist Organization in Switzerland. The request > was refused with a message for him... "If we do not sacrifice any blood, by > what right shall we merit coming before the bargaining table when they > divide nations and lands at the war's end? ....for only with blood shall we > get the land." > From 1933 to 1935, the World Zionist Organization turned down two-thirds of > all the German Jews who applied for immigration certificates. As late as > 1943, while countless Jews in Europe were dying, the U.S. Congress proposed > to set up a commission to "study" the problem. Rabbi Stephen Wise, who was > the principal American spokesperson for Zionism, came to Washington to > testify against the rescue bill because it would divert attention from the > colonization of Palestine. > From the perspective of genuine history, there's no paradox in seeing > Israel emulating the Nazis in waging a genocidal war against the 4 million > Palestinians imprisoned in the concentration camp Israel has created in > Gaza. Nor is it surprising to see the extreme racial prejudice of the > Israelis being brainwashed into thinking themselves the 'chosen people' > while looking upon the Palestinians as worthless humanity. In the case of > Nazism and Zionism, as one philosopher put it, "the poison and the antidote > were brewed in the same vat." > It should come as no surprise that Baron Rothschild is commemorated in > Israel as 'The Father of the Settlement' nor that the motto of the Israeli > Mossad reads "By way of deception, thou shalt do war." The > fractional-reserve central-banking system, the war on terrorism and Israel > are all reflective of a war by way of deception - a war on humanity itself. > Unless Jews, Christians and Moslems can find some way of breaking free of > the web of deceit together, we'll all find ourselves trampled under the > crushing boot of Zionism. > Ok, so, please everyone - who ever does not agree with this....I'd like to > hear from you and extend or amend the conclusions made here. Personally, > I'd just like to know the truth if there is such a thing. Steph > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ceasig at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 00:37:07 2009 From: ceasig at gmail.com (Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:07:07 +0530 Subject: [GJM] Fwd: A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 In-Reply-To: <31f677a30902092335j64146bdcrffbdcc7cd2d1b317@mail.gmail.com> References: <00cf01c98af2$798248f0$6c86dad0$@net> <31f677a30902092335j64146bdcrffbdcc7cd2d1b317@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <31f677a30902092337s48d049ack47dcfa8320fe9efd@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance < ceasig at gmail.com> Date: Feb 10, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Fwd: [GJM] A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 To: RSEE at ipu.ru Cc: michael.ellis at ozemail.com.au Dear Pavel Kasyanov, I would like to inform about this mail and request you to recall that we interacted on the occassion of Johansseburg Summit working for an alternative draft with Michael Ellis. I have started this centre. I like to collaborate on matters of mutual concern. I would like to share some of the content generated by CEASIG for the benifit of RSEE. With warmest regards Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: mary rose Date: Feb 10, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [GJM] A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice < discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>, FixGov at yahoogroups.com To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:09 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/deep-green In the future, economists will return to Earth The year 2009 will witness a tsunami of economic appeals to fix, as disgraced Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan put it, the 'flaw' in their thinking. Most will get it wrong. The proposals for bailouts, regulations, and government spending sprees all share one tragic flaw: They assume no physical or biological limits to human growth. Most economists cling to an 18th century mechanical universe that conjured an 'invisible hand' of God, which would allegedly convert private greed into public utopia. Indeed, a few got rich but the meek inherit an Earth featuring child slavery, sweatshops, a billion starving people, toxic garbage heaps, dead rivers, exhausted aquifers, disappearing forests, depleted energy stores, lopped-off mountain tops, acid seas, melting glaciers, and an atmosphere heating up like a flamb?. Meanwhile, a rigorous sub-culture of scientists and economists have been working to free economics from its eighteenth century quagmire by reconciling human enterprise with the laws of physics, biology, and ecology. Their time has come. This year, 2009, will signal the birth of a genuinely innovative economics that will eventually displace the patchwork rationalisations for greed. The new ecological accounting is variously called 'dynamic equilibrium', 'steady-state' or 'biophysical' economics. What about technology? Ignoring nature remains the tragic conceit of conventional economists, who presume we can grow our economies forever without regard to quantities of materials, energy, and pollution. Biophysical economics, on the other hand, acknowledges that there exist no cases in nature of unlimited growth. Dr. Albert Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Colorado University, urges economists to learn the laws of nature. Non-material values - creativity, dreams, love - may expand without limit, but materials and energy in the real world remain subject to the requirements of thermodynamics and biology. "Growth in population or rates of consumption cannot be sustained. Smart growth is better than dumb growth," says Bartlett, "but both destroy the environment." What about technology? Some economists imagine that computer chips or nanotechnology will save us from the laws of nature, but every technical efficiency in history has resulted in more consumption of energy and resources, not less. Remember when computers were going to save paper? That never happened. Computers increased paper consumption from about 50 million tonnes annually in 1950 to 250 million tonnes today. Meanwhile, we lost 600 million hectares of forest. Nor is the internet a celestial realm where ideas are exchanged for 'free'. Computers require copper, silicon, oil, toxic chemicals, massive energy for server networks, and garbage heaps for techno-trash. In every industrialised nation, energy and material consumption is increasing, not decreasing. Technology is not energy. It costs energy. Malthus revisited In the 1970s, World Bank economist Herman Daly wrote Steady-State Economics to outline the future of ecological economics. Daly makes a distinction between 'sustainable growth', which is 'impossible', and 'sustainable development', which is natural. "The larger system is the biosphere and the subsystem is the human economy," says Daly. "We can develop qualitatively, but we cannot grow beyond the biosphere's limits." A UK commission chaired by Sir Nicholas Stern called global warming 'the greatest market failure ever seen'. Pavan Sukhdev, economist for Deutschbank, estimates that forest destruction erases $2.5 trillion in 'natural capital' annually. Mark Anielski, an economist in Edmonton, estimates that 'ecological services' from Canada's boreal forests - carbon capture, water filtration - are worth about $93 billion per year. In the 19th century, Thomas Malthus and John Stuart Mill introduced ecological economics, warning that human expansion would eventually meet natural limits. Industrialists have mocked Malthus and ignored Mill for two centuries, but the evidence now suggests that the discovery of petroleum only postponed the effects. Many economists now recognise that Malthus and Mill were essentially correct. A 2008 Goldman-Sachs report about commodity shortages stated, "we see parallels with Malthusian economics." Popular investment advisor, James Dines, told a New York Investment Conference in May that food and fuel scarcities are a "result of a Malthusian planetary limit." Limits to growth are real," says Anita M. Burke, former Shell Oil and B.C. Hydro sustainability advisor. "We must embrace adaptation strategies that create new ways of being in relationship to each other and the planet. The solutions offered by growth economics are inadequate. These will be replaced by an economics that accepts the limits and laws of nature." Biophysical Economics "Energy used by the economy is ? a proxy of the amount of real work done in our economy," says Charles A. Hall, at the State University of New York. In the 1980s, Hall and others hypothesised, "Over time, the Dow Jones should snake about the real amount of work." Twenty years later, a century's market and energy data shows that whenever the Dow Jones Industrial Average spikes faster than US energy consumption, it crashes: 1929, 1970s, the dot.com bubble, and now with the mortgage collapse. World oil production plateaued in 2005, and as the price of oil rose from $35/barrel in 2004 to $147 in 2008, it added a $3.5 trillion annual cost to human civilisation. "That reduced discretionary income," says Hall. "The domino that led to a decline in aggregate demand, particularly for suburban real estate." Jeff Rubin, Chief Economist at CIBC World Markets, agrees: "Oil shocks create global recessions." A popular Wall Street publication, The Corporate Examiner, is planning a special edition this year on 'the end of faith-based economics', with an article by Hall and his colleagues. In October, Hall convened the first International Conference on Biophysical Economics in Syracuse, New York, and will publish a book this year. "Since economics is about the production and transfer of physical things or services that require energy," says Hall, "it is a biophysical science, not a social science." Robert Costanza, Director of the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics at the University of Vermont, will launch two periodicals this year: an annual academic anthology, The Year in Ecological Economics, and a bimonthly magazine, Solutions, for technical and popular articles about ecology and economics. "To repair our economic system," explains editor Ida Kubiszewski, we must realise that "the mounting environmental and social problems we face are systemic. Articles in Solutions will employ whole-systems thinking." The editorial board includes pioneers of ecological economics - Herman Daly, Ernest Collenbach, and Vancouver's Bill Rees, who developed 'ecological footprint' analysis at the University of British Columbia. Rees calculates that human consumption of the biosphere is 'already 30 per cent into overshoot', consuming more than the ecosystem can replenish. "We must account for the environment," says Rees, "reduce total consumption, and then address equitable distribution." "We are dying of consumption," says Peter Dauvergne, sustainability advisor at UBC and author of The Shadows of Consumption. "The unequal globalisation of the costs of consumption is putting ecosystems and billions of people at risk." To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. "Sooner or later," as ecologist David Abram puts it, "technological civilisation must accept the invitation of gravity and settle back ? into the rhythms of a more-than-human Earth." In the 21st century, human enterprise has reached the scale of the planet. We have to account for ourselves on nature's balance sheet. This is biophysical economics. It appears inevitable. Biophysical culture is what we will make of it. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -- Endeavouring for ecological safety ,social inclusion and distributive justice for the renewable resource based livelihoods and habitats, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governace (CEASIG) , an initiative of Labour League Foundation and Sufi Trust , Delhi aims for socially inclusive and ecologically safe future for all through building capacities in ecological audit, ecologically safe networking ,advocacy, interfaith dailogue & other related domains for multiplying personal, community , governmental and corporate actions for ecologically safe education, ecolgical audit and socially inclusive governance best practices -- Endeavouring for ecological safety ,social inclusion and distributive justice for the renewable resource based livelihoods and habitats, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governace (CEASIG) , an initiative of Labour League Foundation and Sufi Trust , Delhi aims for socially inclusive and ecologically safe future for all through building capacities in ecological audit, ecologically safe networking ,advocacy, interfaith dailogue & other related domains for multiplying personal, community , governmental and corporate actions for ecologically safe education, ecolgical audit and socially inclusive governance best practices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Youth position paper on drought and Desertification.doc Type: application/msword Size: 172032 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Global crisis of the finance system- monotheistic solutions.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 198144 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Carbon Neutral Neighbourhood Discussions.doc Type: application/msword Size: 44544 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Agenda for sustainable cities and villages.doc Type: application/msword Size: 151040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 1 18:36:35 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:36:35 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: Mantra]] Message-ID: <006801c984d6$b27f1330$177d3990$@net> David, these pictures are really priceless - so lovely. With love and appreciation for all that you do. mary rose From: David West [mailto:dgwest7 at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:47 AM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: Mantra]] You may have seen this several times before, as it is more than one year old. However, the message is timeless, and I enjoyed being reminded. I hope you do too. Best regards David Thanks to Bill Shallcross for this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mantra.pps Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 1850368 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 11:26:07 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:26:07 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: EIGHT STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY Message-ID: <002501c98888$6e5c1cb0$4b145610$@net> From: Mary Rose [mailto:dustysummerrose at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:01 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Fwd: EIGHT STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Stephanie Sutton Date: Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM Subject: EIGHT STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY To: Stephanie Sutton Get On Board! .....looks like the Train of Truth is come'n through - Steph From: Dennis [mailto:denward1 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:14 AM To: STRO Subject: [Fwd: 8 STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY] an update on the states. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 8 STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:44:00 +0000 From: Illenna McClure Subject: 8 STATES ARE NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY In case you didn't hear about it on the mainstream media (which you haven't because they want to keep us asleep), numerous states are currently declaring sovereignty, including: Washington H-1029-1 61st Legislature 2009 1-30-09 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2009 &bill=4009 New Hampshire HCR 6 Introduced 2009 Session http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html Arizona (could not find State Website reference) http://www.azleg.gov/Formatdocument ·asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm Montana HOUSE BILL NO. 246 http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm Michigan HCR No. 4 95th Legislature 1-22-09 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(21rmjiv1sl0wvw55yxurwl55))/documents/2009-2 010/Journal/House/pdf/2009-HJ-01-22-002.pdf Missouri HR 212 2-04-09 http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212.HTM Oklahoma - House Joint Resolution 1003 http://axiomamuse.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/state-legislator-charles-key-want s-to-limit-federal-power/ Hawaii (could not find State Website reference) http://www.hawaii-nation.org/ _____ Please look at these documents..... And I wanted you to see what the alignments are for last night, today and tomorrow and for the coming months......amazing synchonisities.......s* A New Lunar Planner Article Feb 4, 2009 The Five Saturn Uranus Oppositions The Challenge, The Turning, & the Mobilization of Change The Saturn Uranus Synodic Opposition The Jupiter-Uranus Synodic Synchronization 2008 - 2011 Featuring the Second Opposition Feb 5-9, 2009 http://www.lunarplanner.com/Saturn-Opp-Uranus/ The Overview: A dynamic timeline of planetary alignments, including Uranus, Saturn, Juno, Jupiter and Pluto, occurs from late 2008 through 2011. It consists of five Saturn-Uranus oppositions occurring from November 4, 2008 through July 26, 2010. Juno, asteroid of covenant relations and mutual equality, joins Uranus in the latter half of 2009. Mobilizing and expansive Jupiter then joins Uranus from mid-2010 through early 2011. Pluto enters the picture in late 2009 squaring Saturn and then Jupiter. As we explore this timeline, we will see a progression of planetary alignments that start with a dramatic challenge but that will eventually lead to a beneficial and radically expansive change in our lives and in our world. The Second Saturn-Uranus opposition (Feb 5-9, 2009) Occurring in the Eclipse Lunar Cycle of January 26, 2009 and within the 24-hour crescendo leading into the Gibbous Moon, retrograde Saturn and Uranus make the second of their five oppositions in the early hours of February 5, 2009. This second Saturn-Uranus opposition involves Quaoar, the Moon, Chiron, Eris, Sedna and Varuna--all creating a multi-faceted geometric gateway. The potency of this event starts on the eve of February 4 and continues through the Gibbous Moon which occurs in the early hours of February 6. This event culminates on the Full Moon Lunar Eclipse of February 9, 2009. The Sun conjoins Chiron on the Full Moon--bringing the past powerful two weeks and the second Saturn-Uranus opposition to a revelatory culmination.... The Monthly Lunar Planner: Planetary cycles create the evolutionary currents of growth occurring within ourselves and our lives. To know what these cycles of life are asking of us is to consciously participate in life from a place of personal empowerment and inner peace. In this awareness and attunement, we can walk the path leading to our highest fulfillment--physically, emotionally and spiritually. The Lunar Planner is an experiential tool teaching how to live in attunement to the natural Lunar & Planetary Cycles. There are three parts to the Monthly Lunar Planner Publication: * The Lunar Planner Introduction - free to all visitors * The Monthly Lunar Calendar - free to all visitors * The Monthly Lunar Month Commentary - by subscription The Monthly "Lunar Calendar" and the "Lunar Planner Introduction" will teach you how to live in attunement to the Lunar Cycles. If you use the Monthly Lunar Calendar like a daily journal while using the Lunar Planner Introduction as guide, you can quickly learn how to participate in harmony with the natural lunar spiral of growth and gain an entirely new understanding and perspective of your life experience. The "Monthly Lunar Planner Commentary," made available just before each New Moon, articulates, through the in-depth language of "astronomical star-level astrology," the opportunity for growth in consciousness each lunar month offers. Each month's Lunar Planner weaves a continuing story-line revealing the monthly energetics creating our evolutionary spiral of growth. ...also learn about the Sacred Geometry of Earth's Precessional Cycle and much more. The Lunar Planner http://www.lunarplanner.com "Planetary Bio-Harmonic Audio Meditations" Designed for our Attunement, Transformation & the Evolution of Consciousness Additional Resources Include: * Times to use specific audios in each lunar cycle * Planet-Mental-Emotional-Chakra Correspondences Chart * Reviews from exising users * Affiliate Program http://lunarplanner.com/Harmonics-AV/Planets/ If you are not on the Lunar Planner Email List and would like to be you can register here. If you would like to be removed from the Lunar Planner Email List use the update/change your account link below. This message was sent from Nick Anthony Fiorenza to ssutton at phisciences.com. It was sent from: Nick Fiorenza, VOC, Sedona, AZ 86339. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below. To update/change your account click here A New Lunar Planner Article Feb 4, 2009 The Five Saturn Uranus Oppositions The Challenge, The Turning, & the Mobilization of Change The Saturn Uranus Synodic Opposition The Jupiter-Uranus Synodic Synchronization 2008 - 2011 Featuring the Second Opposition Feb 5-9, 2009 http://www.lunarplanner.com/Saturn-Opp-Uranus/ The Overview: A dynamic timeline of planetary alignments, including Uranus, Saturn, Juno, Jupiter and Pluto, occurs from late 2008 through 2011. It consists of five Saturn-Uranus oppositions occurring from November 4, 2008 through July 26, 2010. Juno, asteroid of covenant relations and mutual equality, joins Uranus in the latter half of 2009. Mobilizing and expansive Jupiter then joins Uranus from mid-2010 through early 2011. Pluto enters the picture in late 2009 squaring Saturn and then Jupiter. As we explore this timeline, we will see a progression of planetary alignments that start with a dramatic challenge but that will eventually lead to a beneficial and radically expansive change in our lives and in our world. The Second Saturn-Uranus opposition (Feb 5-9, 2009) Occurring in the Eclipse Lunar Cycle of January 26, 2009 and within the 24-hour crescendo leading into the Gibbous Moon, retrograde Saturn and Uranus make the second of their five oppositions in the early hours of February 5, 2009. This second Saturn-Uranus opposition involves Quaoar, the Moon, Chiron, Eris, Sedna and Varuna--all creating a multi-faceted geometric gateway. The potency of this event starts on the eve of February 4 and continues through the Gibbous Moon which occurs in the early hours of February 6. This event culminates on the Full Moon Lunar Eclipse of February 9, 2009. The Sun conjoins Chiron on the Full Moon--bringing the past powerful two weeks and the second Saturn-Uranus opposition to a revelatory culmination.... The Monthly Lunar Planner: Planetary cycles create the evolutionary currents of growth occurring within ourselves and our lives. To know what these cycles of life are asking of us is to consciously participate in life from a place of personal empowerment and inner peace. In this awareness and attunement, we can walk the path leading to our highest fulfillment--physically, emotionally and spiritually. The Lunar Planner is an experiential tool teaching how to live in attunement to the natural Lunar & Planetary Cycles. There are three parts to the Monthly Lunar Planner Publication: * The Lunar Planner Introduction - free to all visitors * The Monthly Lunar Calendar - free to all visitors * The Monthly Lunar Month Commentary - by subscription The Monthly "Lunar Calendar" and the "Lunar Planner Introduction" will teach you how to live in attunement to the Lunar Cycles. If you use the Monthly Lunar Calendar like a daily journal while using the Lunar Planner Introduction as guide, you can quickly learn how to participate in harmony with the natural lunar spiral of growth and gain an entirely new understanding and perspective of your life experience. The "Monthly Lunar Planner Commentary," made available just before each New Moon, articulates, through the in-depth language of "astronomical star-level astrology," the opportunity for growth in consciousness each lunar month offers. Each month's Lunar Planner weaves a continuing story-line revealing the monthly energetics creating our evolutionary spiral of growth. ...also learn about the Sacred Geometry of Earth's Precessional Cycle and much more. The Lunar Planner http://www.lunarplanner.com "Planetary Bio-Harmonic Audio Meditations" Designed for our Attunement, Transformation & the Evolution of Consciousness Additional Resources Include: * Times to use specific audios in each lunar cycle * Planet-Mental-Emotional-Chakra Correspondences Chart * Reviews from exising users * Affiliate Program http://lunarplanner.com/Harmonics-AV/Planets/ If you are not on the Lunar Planner Email List and would like to be you can register here. If you would like to be removed from the Lunar Planner Email List use the update/change your account link below. This message was sent from Nick Anthony Fiorenza to ssutton at phisciences.com. It was sent from: Nick Fiorenza, VOC, Sedona, AZ 86339. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below. To update/change your account click here -- >From the desk of mary rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Attached Message Part.txt URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Logo-Argo-LP.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20997 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spacer-gradient.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spacer-gradient.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: emaillogo.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: email_manage_subscription.png Type: image/png Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: f2f1.png Type: image/png Size: 1317 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: track.php Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Logo-Argo-LP.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20997 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spacer-gradient.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spacer-gradient.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: emaillogo.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: email_manage_subscription.png Type: image/png Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: f2f1.png Type: image/png Size: 1317 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: track.php Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Letter to American Militia Leadership 090204.doc Type: application/msword Size: 32256 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Petition to US Congress 090204(2).doc Type: application/msword Size: 106496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 6 16:56:29 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:56:29 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Recent and old outstanding crop circles Message-ID: <001d01c988b6$8a1e8090$9e5b81b0$@net> This is just really astounding. Thank you Robynne for sending these. m r From: W. Robynne McWayne [mailto:wrmcwayne at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Recent and old outstanding crop circles You may have seen all of these, but thought you'd like them anyway! _____ From: sherryk22 at comcast.net Subject: Fwd: [mesa] outstanding crop circles Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:40:03 -0800 _____ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:03:53 -0700 From: mikeyj69m at gmail.com To: mesacommunity at photon.cc Subject: [mesa] outstanding crop circles STUNNING STUDY OF Crop Circles I have been very interested in crop circles for years now but have NEVER seen the info put together like this. Marvelous work. Please spend the time and read/ponder... Windmill Hill (2), nr Avebury, Wiltshire. Reported 2nd August. Curiously, this formation has 37 spokes, not 36. Thus it does not follow a rule of 360 degrees divided by 10. This extra spoke does not seem to be an accident. The intricate design certainly was not done my man. Nursteed, nr Devizes, Wiltshire. Reported 11th August. When a protractor is used to create other circles with the same diameter from the edge of a first circle, one obtains six evenly spaced circles. Here the design incorporates such circles, but then doubled at even spacing around the perimeter of the first circle, to make 12 circles. The entire effect, with select areas of crop pushed down, shows as an interwoven ball or bowl. East field(3), nr Alton Barnes. Wiltshire. Reported 14th August. This formation has been dubbed the "Dolphins." At first glance it certainly appears that way. However, when I looked at Lucy Pringle's second picture I was astounded to see what appears as a second formation superimposed upon the first, and situated IN THE AIR slightly above the first. See picture below. If the Circle Makers could produce a ribbon effect, as we saw earlier, they certainly could produce this illusion. Of course, what we perceive depends upon viewing angle, lighting conditions, and other factors. But the illusion is seen even in the first photograph. It is the kind of geometric construction we create in our 3-D drawings done on 2-dimensional paper. Crabwood Farm House, nr Winchester, Hampshire. Reported 15th August. This is a most incredible crop formation. It shows how well our Celestial Visitors know us. They have taken our image of their appearance and reproduced it here in a field of grain. It may be that they do indeed appear like this to human beings who are subject to their study, as I have elsewhere discussed. But for them to admit this interactive relationship between celestial and human beings is absolutely fascinating. Certainly there could be no closer connection between our understanding of our Visitors and their presence. Here Crop Circles are directly tied to Celestial Visitors. What was merely geometric symbolization in a multitude of crop circles now becomes direct. Furthermore, the coded disk directly incorporated into this formation shows a means of communication never before so clearly offered. Unfortunately, I do not know of anyone who has successfully decoded the disk. How great it would be if we had someone who could do that. You can see the individual segments of the coding interspersed around the circle in a continuous spiral. The coding is made up of several different length blocks and spaces in 14 spiral circles. One could lay it out as a straight string. Certainly an ingenious method for giving a lengthy message. Equally incredible is the ability of the Circle Makers to do this in spite of the break up of the grain by the tractor lines. The Germans make a music box that is driven by similar coded disks. I wonder what the music would sound like if this image were reproduced to play on such instrument. This may be the first example of painting of pictures directly into grain. What human being would even come close to this display? Note that the image is formed at an angle to the tractor lines to prevent confusion between the image and the lines. The size of the image was chosen to produce such a profound effect. I include here a full report from Stuart Dike and the Crop Connector staff. I feel it is important enough to show their reaction to this most amazing display. FIELD REPORT Winchester, Hampshire. August 15 2002 The Scary Alien Formation M.J. Fussell, editor of the Crop Circle Connector web site, seemed a little flustered on the phone as he tried to inform me of a new crop glyph he had learned of the previous evening. From my end he sounded as if he was foaming at the mouth as he breathlessly tried to fill me in. All I got of any real value were the words 'alien' and 'coded disc'. WHAT? 'See it for yourself, I'm uploading an image right now'... As the image of this most perplexing of crop formations appeared on the Silent Circle Cafe computer screen, faces filled with amazement, coupled with gasps of disbelief which permeated the building. Human reaction to perceived alien contact, a very interesting thing to witness indeed. What we were looking at was without doubt the most stunning, atmospheric and indeed the most sinister crop glyph that has appeared to date. An alien with a CD, that's outrageous, but there it was, stretched across a field of ripe wheat in far out Hampshire. Our minds were made up there and then; we had to get on site ASAP. Something that subtle would no doubt take a severe battering from hoards of visitors. With this in mind the exact location of the new glyph was acquired and we were on our way. One and a half hours later and we were actually standing within the huge and, from zero elevation, almost totally incomprehensible alien body. Confusing would be an understatement here, even though we had seen the aerial image beforehand our ability to discern which part of the formation we were actually in was very difficult indeed. However once we had located the disc things began to get a little easier. That said, if one had not had the good fortune to see the overhead view before entering then the whole thing would have been near impossible to figure out. How did it look and feel? Very much like the 2001 Chilbolton 'Face' and 'Message' formations. Subjectively there were very strange and oppressive feelings within the new arrival. One could almost say feelings of foreboding and awe were the overriding flavours of this event, as indeed was the impression we both felt almost exactly one year earlier over at Chilbolton, just nine miles away. It really did seem that the same agency had been at work, only this time the finished product is utterly staggering, above and below, the 2001 events seem positively crude in comparison to this masterpiece, that alone is quite a statement when one considers the reaction to those events at the time. Other interesting points of relationship include the fact that the new arrival is positioned on the highest point in the locality, as was the case at Chilbolton. Also there is the positioning of the formation in very close proximity to hi tech communications equipment, just like at Chilbolton, coincidence? I doubt it. Maybe this positioning is a deliberate attempt by whatever agency that created this series of images to cultivate this bizarre, sinister kind of scary feel. If this was the intention it works very well, leaving one with very mixed feelings of excitement, anticipation, and confusion and for many observers, fear, again probably as intended. All laid crop areas were extremely neat when we arrived, with no evidence of prior incursion by more than a couple of people, at most. We had beaten the rush and were given the privileged opportunity to have a really good hands and knees look at the un-trampled floor of this seemingly impossible design. That we did! With the total absence of 'stomper board' markings throughout all areas of the formation examined, we had to conclude that it was most unlikely that this is a standard fake. The damage we caused to the laid crop was shocking. Everywhere we stepped we were smashing the plants under our feet, leaving very obvious signs of human body weight on the mega brittle, bone dry plants. How could a crew of fakers be in there and not leave the whole thing, in terms of smashed up plants, massively traumatised. The crop was so dry and brittle that the very action of putting ones foot down caused everything underfoot to literally crumble into an ugly tangle of broken, shattered wheat. In short, what we experienced on the ground on day one cannot be reconciled with any ground based hoaxing methodology that we are aware of at this time. Could it be for real? ET with a disc full of info for the people of the Earth, a very far out concept indeed. If they wish to have an overt communication why not just land the saucers in Hyde Park? Could it be a 'big brother' scam job, employing sophisticated airborne/ space borne technologies, intended to steer the real benevolent crop circle situation in a certain direction? Indeed, is there a technology that could do such a thing? All we could say for sure is that somehow this amazing work is there and was almost certainly created from above, (CFPR personal opinion). Utterly staggering and utterly confusing, just wait for the 2003 ET special. Arecibo Radio Message to Space Crop Circle Response to Message next to Radio Telescope [image uk01dm/final.gif] Crabwood formation Crop Circle Arecibocircles Arecibo-message in binary code Chilbolton Radio Telescope Near Wherwell, Hampshire, England August 19, 2001 Sagan'sAricibox Carl Sagan / NASA Arecibo-message in binary code 1974 AriciboxCompare Sagan's Arecibo: decimal calculation system carbon chemical based 2-string DNA code Humans Height and Quantity 3rd planet in our Solar System the "CD" circle: decimal calculation system silicon based 3-string DNA code Large Head Humanoid 4' tall 21.3 billion 3rd 4th and 5th planet in their System Face Circle Crop Circle 3D-face offering a CD-Disk Crabwood Farm House near Winchester, Hampshire, England August 15, 2002 decoded CD Maurice Osborn's ASCII-decoding of the Crabwood "CD": Beware of the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. EELRIJUE < Damaged word could be: BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING 'bell sound' ED: When you look at the picture at these Crabwood Farm crop circles, responsible for these circles seem to be the Tiny Grey's, since there is mention of a 4' length only - and there is lot's of them .. One might also deduce - premising true incidents - that in accordance to other mentionings on the Web, the Grey's and their Masters have stopped abduction and experimenting on us. Hear, hear, there is justice after all in the Universe. And the Big Question remaining on that: Why did they stop, Who enforces Law & Order in the Universe .. Visit The Crop Circle Connector -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ************************************************** To manage your [mesa] account, go to http://mesacommunity.photon.cc Community bulletin board: http://www.peralta-web.org (Sue Kinzelman) http://www.mesavision.com and http://www.themesaboys.com _______________________________________________________________________ To reply to the entire list, press REPLY and type in the TO line: mesacommunity at photon.cc. Thank you. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 5/02/2009 11:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 5/02/2009 11:34 AM ************************************************** To manage your [mesa] account, go to http://mesacommunity.photon.cc Community bulletin board: http://www.peralta-web.org (Sue Kinzelman) http://www.mesavision.com and http://www.themesaboys.com _______________________________________________________________________ To reply to the entire list, press REPLY and type in the TO line: mesacommunity at photon.cc. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 962 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16082 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 639411 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 55447 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 63221 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 11823 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 44819 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 36694 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 59937 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 42465 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 75017 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 34948 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41481 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9635 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7502 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18458 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13142 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13759 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Sun Feb 8 11:11:35 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:11:35 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: How to spot products that might have MELAMINE: See Bar codes at the end Message-ID: <002901c98a18$b128f770$137ae650$@net> Robynne, thanks for including the message about keeping your money liquid in your community and buying locally-produced and recycled items. From: W. Robynne McWayne [mailto:wrmcwayne at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: How to spot food products that might have MELAMINE: See Bar codes at the end VERY IMPORTANT to know - write down the bar codes and put them in your wallet so you can check when you shop. Check your pet food, too. _____________________Also Remember: Keep your money liquid in YOUR community: - Buy only at garage sales, and CraigsList.org - If you can't find what you need, shop only locally owned stores and restaurants WHO THEMSELVES BUY LOCALLY! Ask which dishes have ONLY locally grown ingredients. - Buy at farmer's markets, and buy organic, always checking where items are made or grown. - Organize your neighborhood, plant and tend vegetable gardens wherever there is space. - Preserve or barter or give away extra produce - Hire and work for barter via CraigsList.org - Support your friends and family, take people into your home! Almost every dollar SPENT at a national store leaves your town and is re-spent elsewhere. Conversely, working FOR a national store or company brings money INTO your community, the benefits come when it is then carefully spent locally. (Copy, edit, and paste this into an email and your "signature"!) i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me _____ From: fourza at mac.com Subject: Fwd: MELAMINE (Read to the end) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:56:32 -0800 To: Make sure you look at the end - very interesting - perhaps a way to tell where things are made.. China milk poisoning incidents make everyone afraid to look at the daily news report. Everyday, the reports are changing. No one can clearly tell us what to eat and not to eat. 1.What really is poisoned milk? It is the milk powder mixed with 'MELAMINE' What is Melamine use for? It is an industrial chemical use in the production of melawares. It is also used in home decoration. ' US resistant board' Do you understand? Melamine is use in i ndustrial production & it cannot be eaten. 2.Why is Melamine added in milk powder? The most important nutrient in milk is protein. And Melamine has the same protein that contains 'NITROGEN' Adding Melamine in milk reduces milk content and it is cheaper than milk so it lowers capitalization. It can give the business man more profit! Below is Melamine; doesn't it look like milk? It doesn't have any smell, so cannot be detected. 3.When was it discovered$B!)(B Year 2007, US cats and dogs died suddenly, they found that pet food from China contains Melamine. Starting 2008, In China , an abnormal increase in infant cases of kidney stones. August 2008 China Sanlu Milk Powder tested with Melamine Sept. 2008, New Zealand gov't ask China to check this problem Sept. 21, 2008, lots of food products in Taiwan tested with Melamine 4.What happens when Melamine is digested? Melamine remains inside the kidney. It forms into stones blocking the tubes. Pain will be eminent and person cannot urinate. Kidney will then swell. Although surgery can remove the stones, but it will cause irreversible kidney damage. It can lead to loss of kidney function and will require kidney dialysis or lead to death because of uremia. What is dialysis? In fact, it should be called 'blood washing'; it is filtering all of the body's blood into the machine and then go back to the body. The whole process takes 4 hours and it is necessary to dialysis once for every 3 days for the rest of your life. Here is a dialysis center Large dialysis center A small hole is required in the arm to insert the sub-dialysis catheter. Why is it more serious in babies$B!)(BBecause the kidney is very small and they drink a lot of milk powder. Here is a baby undergoing dialysis. China currenty has 13,000 infants hospitalized It does not matter how much a human being took Melamine. The important point is 'It cannot be EATEN!' 5.What are the foods to be avoided? Foods that contain dairy products should be avoided. Remember: Foods with creamer or milk should be avoided. 6.Which companies are affected? Hereunder are the companies affected with Melamine. 7.What do we do next? Avoid the above foods for at least six months. If you have snack bar, restaurant or coffee shops, stop selling dairy products for the meantime. If you have infants at home, change to mother's milk or find other substitutes. Finally, share this information with friends so they will understand the risk of milk poisoning. The whole world is scared of China made 'black hearted goods'. Can you differentiate which one is made in the USA , Philippines , Taiwan or China ? Let me tell you how... the first 3 digits of the ba rcode is the country code wherein the product was made. Sample all barcodes that start with 690.691.692 until 695 are all MADE IN CHINA. 471 is Made in Taiwan This is our human right to know, but the government and related departments never educate the public, therefore we have to RESCUE ourselves. Nowadays, Chinese businessmen know that consumers do not prefer products 'made in china', so they don't show from which country it is made. However, you may now refer to the barcode, remember if the first 3 digits is 690-695 then it is Made in China . 00 ~ 13 USA & CANADA 30 ~ 37 FRANCE 40 ~ 44 GERMANY 49 ~ JAPAN 50 ~ UK 57 ~ Denmark 64 ~ Finland 76 ~ Switzerland and Lienchtenstein 628 ~ Saudi-Arabien 629 ~ United Arab Emirates 740 ~ 745 - Central America All 480 Codes are Made in the Philippines. Please inform your family and friends for them to be aware. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 57042 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 35496 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 8922 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18048 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 10988 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19925 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 70301 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 48725 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 43719 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17997 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 86533 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19206 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19090 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13601 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 87484 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 90695 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9605 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 11:43:13 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:43:13 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Error re MELAMINE: and country barcodes Message-ID: <007401c98ae6$4b068740$e11395c0$@net> From: W. Robynne McWayne [mailto:wrmcwayne at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 8:06 PM To: W. Robynne McWayne Subject: Error re MELAMINE: and country barcodes I apologize. It's not as clear cut as I would have liked or thought. The article is apparently from last October and is quoted and explained: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/barcodes.asp The barcodes are correct - when given outside the US. They indicate the country where the product is registered, or has company headquarters, which is often but not necessarily where the products are made. Inside the US we still can only get info from the label "Product of _______" , "Made in _______" etc. I was disappointed not to be able to rely on bar codes, but, too, there's no telling what cut-rate source these now struggling companies will turn to - including Chinese sources of melamin laced powdered milk, or mercury laden corn syrup. Right now, "made in USA" doesn't mean they can't get ingredients elsewhere. Sorry. Back to cooking from scratch. _____ From: wrmcwayne at hotmail.com Subject: How to spot products that might have MELAMINE: See Bar codes at the end Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:21:07 -0800 VERY IMPORTANT to know - write down the bar codes and put them in your wallet so you can check when you shop. Check your pet food, too. _____________________Also Remember: Keep your money liquid in YOUR community: - Buy only at garage sales, and CraigsList.org - If you can't find what you need, shop only locally owned stores and restaurants WHO THEMSELVES BUY LOCALLY! Ask which dishes have ONLY locally grown ingredients. - Buy at farmer's markets, and buy organic, always checking where items are made or grown. - Organize your neighborhood, plant and tend vegetable gardens wherever there is space. - Preserve or barter or give away extra produce - Hire and work for barter via CraigsList.org - Support your friends and family, take people into your home! Almost every dollar SPENT at a national store leaves your town and is re-spent elsewhere. Conversely, working FOR a national store or company brings money INTO your community, the benefits come when it is then carefully spent locally. (Copy, edit, and paste this into an email and your "signature"!) i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me _____ From: fourza at mac.com Subject: Fwd: MELAMINE (Read to the end) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:56:32 -0800 To: Make sure you look at the end - very interesting - perhaps a way to tell where things are made.. China milk poisoning incidents make everyone afraid to look at the daily news report. Everyday, the reports are changing. No one can clearly tell us what to eat and not to eat. 1.What really is poisoned milk? It is the milk powder mixed with 'MELAMINE' What is Melamine use for? It is an industrial chemical use in the production of melawares. It is also used in home decoration. ' US resistant board' Do you understand? Melamine is use in i ndustrial production & it cannot be eaten. 2.Why is Melamine added in milk powder? The most important nutrient in milk is protein. And Melamine has the same protein that contains 'NITROGEN' Adding Melamine in milk reduces milk content and it is cheaper than milk so it lowers capitalization. It can give the business man more profit! Below is Melamine; doesn't it look like milk? It doesn't have any smell, so cannot be detected. 3.When was it discovered$B!)(B Year 2007, US cats and dogs died suddenly, they found that pet food from China contains Melamine. Starting 2008, In China , an abnormal increase in infant cases of kidney stones. August 2008 China Sanlu Milk Powder tested with Melamine Sept. 2008, New Zealand gov't ask China to check this problem Sept. 21, 2008, lots of food products in Taiwan tested with Melamine 4.What happens when Melamine is digested? Melamine remains inside the kidney. It forms into stones blocking the tubes. Pain will be eminent and person cannot urinate. Kidney will then swell. Although surgery can remove the stones, but it will cause irreversible kidney damage. It can lead to loss of kidney function and will require kidney dialysis or lead to death because of uremia. What is dialysis? In fact, it should be called 'blood washing'; it is filtering all of the body's blood into the machine and then go back to the body. The whole process takes 4 hours and it is necessary to dialysis once for every 3 days for the rest of your life. Here is a dialysis center Large dialysis center A small hole is required in the arm to insert the sub-dialysis catheter. Why is it more serious in babies$B!)(BBecause the kidney is very small and they drink a lot of milk powder. Here is a baby undergoing dialysis. China currenty has 13,000 infants hospitalized It does not matter how much a human being took Melamine. The important point is 'It cannot be EATEN!' 5.What are the foods to be avoided? Foods that contain dairy products should be avoided. Remember: Foods with creamer or milk should be avoided. 6.Which companies are affected? Hereunder are the companies affected with Melamine. 7.What do we do next? Avoid the above foods for at least six months. If you have snack bar, restaurant or coffee shops, stop selling dairy products for the meantime. If you have infants at home, change to mother's milk or find other substitutes. Finally, share this information with friends so they will understand the risk of milk poisoning. The whole world is scared of China made 'black hearted goods'. Can you differentiate which one is made in the USA , Philippines , Taiwan or China ? Let me tell you how... the first 3 digits of the ba rcode is the country code wherein the product was made. Sample all barcodes that start with 690.691.692 until 695 are all MADE IN CHINA. 471 is Made in Taiwan This is our human right to know, but the government and related departments never educate the public, therefore we have to RESCUE ourselves. Nowadays, Chinese businessmen know that consumers do not prefer products 'made in china', so they don't show from which country it is made. However, you may now refer to the barcode, remember if the first 3 digits is 690-695 then it is Made in China . 00 ~ 13 USA & CANADA 30 ~ 37 FRANCE 40 ~ 44 GERMANY 49 ~ JAPAN 50 ~ UK 57 ~ Denmark 64 ~ Finland 76 ~ Switzerland and Lienchtenstein 628 ~ Saudi-Arabien 629 ~ United Arab Emirates 740 ~ 745 - Central America All 480 Codes are Made in the Philippines. Please inform your family and friends for them to be aware. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 57042 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 35496 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 8922 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18048 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 10988 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19925 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 70301 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 48725 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 43719 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17997 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 86533 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19206 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19090 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13601 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 87484 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 90695 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9605 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Mon Feb 9 17:56:57 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:56:57 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: THE NEW WORLD ORDER - Our Final Remarks........ Message-ID: <000401c98b1a$7f719310$7e54b930$@net> From: Mary Rose [mailto:dustysummerrose at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 2:42 PM To: Stephanie Sutton; maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Re: THE NEW WORLD ORDER - Our Final Remarks........ With regard to the following timeline forwarded by Stephanie Sutton, I have written the following: m r: MOVING FROM ME TO US. With regard to this subject, IMHO we would all do well to remember that we are One people who inhabit one Earth. And what we do to another we do to ourselves. As the old adage goes, "butterfly wings flapping in one part of the world can cause a typhoon in another part". Whether we like it or not, communications technology coupled with modern transportation has made us a "very small world" that quite rightly is often called: "The Global Village". In this small global village, we are all close neighbors as our subtle entangled electromagnetic energy fields, of which we are composed, overlap and influence one another. It is time to take down the artificial barriers, which are really but thoughts in our minds brought about by our individual cultural belief systems, and have no other existence. In reality, there is no such thing as a Nation-State, or an American, or a Mexican, or an Indonesian or European -- there is no black, white, red, brown, or yellow race; there really is only "US" - people sharing space on this Earth.. Scientific research reveals no difference in our DNA even though due to cultural backgrounds we may speak different languages and happen to have been born in different places. This Earth can belong to no other than "all of us" to have and hold in equal rights. The idea of "ownership" when examined closely is ludicrious -- we are all here as Tenants-in-Common as our birthright. It is our heritage and that of our children and their children for all time to come, with no distinction given as to race, creed, color or sex. We are all part of the Universal Mind -- there can be no separate God or Gods for anyone to worship. Nor can there be a "one world government" for what is needed is for each of us to grow up and be "self-governing" -- responsible for our own behavior. We were all born equal with equal rights in this Earth. Let us all take responsibility for maintaining it for future generations as the Stewards we were and are destined to be. It is long past time for us to move into another level of multi-dimensional consciousness as spiritual beings of the Universes having an earthly experience. As Gandhi said: "We must be the change we wish to see in our lives." Let's get on with living in this paradise in a life-enhancing manner. mary rose On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Stephanie Sutton wrote: Hey gang - I'm not responsible for the last statement in this long and oh so boring but oh so important chronology of events........where it trails off with no ending.......I guess that's our job to bring this diatribe up to 2009 and write the final closing remarks as we enter the last phases leading up to 2012......Let's all do it.......let's write the closing chapter and seal it with a kiss........after all.......it's only our memoirs we're to write......not our epitaph. Steph _____ From: mjh3 at sbcglobal.net To: gordana at hawaiian.net Sent: 30-Jan-09 6:28:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time Subj: Fw: A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D. Arranged and Edited by John Loeffler In the mainline media, those who adhere to the position that there is some kind of "conspiracy" pushing us towards a world government are virulently ridiculed. The standard attack maintains that the so-called "New World Order" is the product of turn-of-the-century, right-wing, bigoted, anti-semitic racists acting in the tradition of the long-debunked Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, now promulgated by some Militias and other right-wing hate groups. The historical record does not support that position to any large degree but it has become the mantra of the socialist left and their cronies, the media. The term "New World Order" has been used thousands of times in this century by proponents in high places of federalized world government. Some of those involved in this collaboration to achieve world order have been Jewish. The preponderance are not, so it most definitely is not a Jewish agenda. For years, leaders in education, industry, the media, banking, etc., have promoted those with the same Weltanschauung (world view) as theirs. Of course, someone might say that just because individuals promote their friends doesn't constitute a conspiracy. That's true in the usual sense. However, it does represent an "open conspiracy," as described by noted Fabian Socialist H.G. Wells in The Open Conspiracy: Blue Prints for a World Revolution (1928). In 1913, prior to the passage of the Federal Reserve Act President Wilson's The New Freedom was published, in which he revealed: "Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U. S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." On November 21, 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt wrote a letter to Col. Edward Mandell House, President Woodrow Wilson's close advisor: "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson... " That there is such a thing as a cabal of power brokers who control government behind the scenes has been detailed several times in this century by credible sources. Professor Carroll Quigley was Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown University. President Clinton has publicly paid homage to the influence Professor Quigley had on his life. In Quigley's magnum opus Tragedy and Hope (1966), he states: "There does exist and has existed for a generation, an international ... network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies... but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known." Even talk show host Rush Limbaugh, an outspoken critic of anyone claiming a push for global government, said on his February 7, 1995 program: "You see, if you amount to anything in Washington these days, it is because you have been plucked or handpicked from an Ivy League school -- Harvard, Yale, Kennedy School of Government -- you've shown an aptitude to be a good Ivy League type, and so you're plucked so-to-speak, and you are assigned success. You are assigned a certain role in government somewhere, and then your success is monitored and tracked, and you go where the pluckers and the handpickers can put you." On May 4, 1993, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) president Leslie Gelb said on The Charlie Rose Show that: "... you [Charlie Rose] had me on [before] to talk about the New World Order! I talk about it all the time. It's one world now. The Council [CFR] can find, nurture, and begin to put people in the kinds of jobs this country needs. And that's going to be one of the major enterprises of the Council under me." Previous CFR chairman, John J. McCloy (1953-70), actually said they have been doing this since the 1940s (and before). The thrust towards global government can be well-documented but at the end of the twentieth century it does not look like a traditional conspiracy in the usual sense of a secret cabal of evil men meeting clandestinely behind closed doors. Rather, it is a "networking" of like-minded individuals in high places to achieve a common goal, as described in Marilyn Ferguson's 1980 insider classic, The Aquarian Conspiracy. Perhaps the best way to relate this would be a brief history of the New World Order, not in our words but in the words of those who have been striving to make it real. 1912 -- Colonel Edward M. House, a close advisor of President Woodrow Wilson, publishes Phillip Dru: Administrator in which he promotes "socialism as dreamed of by Karl Marx." 1913 -- The Federal Reserve (neither federal nor a reserve) is created. It was planned at a secret meeting in 1910 on Jekyl Island, Georgia by a group of bankers and politicians, including Col. House. This transferred the power to create money from the American government to a private group of bankers. It is probably the largest generator of debt in the world. May 30, 1919 -- Prominent British and American personalities establish the Royal Institute of International Affairs in England and the Institute of International Affairs in the U.S. at a meeting arranged by Col. House attended by various Fabian socialists, including noted economist John Maynard Keynes. Two years later, Col. House reorganizes the Institute of International Affairs into the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). December 15, 1922 -- The CFR endorses World Government in its magazine Foreign Affairs. Author Philip Kerr, states: "Obviously there is going to be no peace or prosperity for mankind as long as [the earth] remains divided into 50 or 60 independent states until some kind of international system is created... The real problem today is that of the world government." 1928 -- The Open Conspiracy: Blue Prints for a World Revolution by H.G. Wells is published. A former Fabian Socialist, Wells writes: "The political world of the ... Open Conspiracy must weaken, efface, incorporate and supersede existing governments... The Open Conspiracy is the natural inheritor of socialist and communist enthusiasms; it may be in control of Moscow before it is in control of New York... The character of the Open Conspiracy will now be plainly displayed... It will be a world religion." 1931 -- Students at the Lenin School of Political Warfare in Moscow are taught: "One day we shall start to spread the most theatrical peace movement the world has ever seen. The capitalist countries, stupid and decadent ... will fall into the trap offered by the possibility of making new friends. Our day will come in 30 years or so... The bourgeoisie must be lulled into a false sense of security." 1931 -- In a speech to the Institute for the Study of International Affairs at Copenhagen) historian Arnold Toyee said: "We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands...." 1932 -- New books are published urging World Order: Toward Soviet America by William Z. Foster. Head of the Communist Party USA, Foster indicates that a National Department of Education would be one of the means used to develop a new socialist society in the U.S. The New World Order by F.S. Marvin, describing the League of Nations as the first attempt at a New World Order. Marvin says, "nationality must rank below the claims of mankind as a whole." Dare the School Build a New Social Order? is published. Educator author George Counts asserts that: "... the teachers should deliberately reach for power and then make the most of their conquest" in order to "influence the social attitudes, ideals and behavior of the coming generation... The growth of science and technology has carried us into a new age where ignorance must be replaced by knowledge, competition by cooperation, trust in Providence by careful planning and private capitalism by some form of social economy." 1933 -- The first Humanist Manifesto is published. Co-author John Dewey, the noted philosopher and educator, calls for a synthesizing of all religions and "a socialized and cooperative economic order." Co-signer C.F. Potter said in 1930: "Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism, and every American public school is a school of humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour once a week, teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanistic teaching?" 1933 -- The Shape of Things to Come by H.G. Wells is published. Wells predicts a second world war around 1940, originating from a German-Polish dispute. After 1945 there would be an increasing lack of public safety in "criminally infected" areas. The plan for the "Modern World-State" would succeed on its third attempt (about 1980), and come out of something that occurred in Basra, Iraq. The book also states, "Although world government had been plainly coming for some years, although it had been endlessly feared and murmured against, it found no opposition prepared anywhere." 1934 -- The Externalization of the Hierarchy by Alice A. Bailey is published. Bailey is an occultist, whose works are channeled from a spirit guide, the Tibetan Master [demon spirit] Djwahl Kuhl. Bailey uses the phrase "points of light" in connection with a "New Group of World Servers" and claims that 1934 marks the beginning of "the organizing of the men and women... group work of a new order... [with] progress defined by service... the world of the Brotherhood... the Forces of Light... [and] out of the spoliation of all existing culture and civilization, the new world order must be built." The book is published by the Lucis Trust, incorporated originally in New York as the Lucifer Publishing Company. Lucis Trust is a United Nations NGO and has been a major player at the recent U.N. summits. Later Assistant Secretary General of the U.N. Robert Mueller would credit the creation of his World Core Curriculum for education to the underlying teachings of Djwahl Kuhl via Alice Bailey's writings on the subject. 1932 -- Plan for Peace by American Birth Control League founder Margaret Sanger (1921) is published. She calls for coercive sterilization, mandatory segregation, and rehabilitative concentration camps for all "dysgenic stocks" including Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians and Catholics. October 28, 1939 -- In an address by John Foster Dulles, later U.S. Secretary of State, he proposes that America lead the transition to a new order of less independent, semi-sovereign states bound together by a league or federal union. 1939 -- New World Order by H. G. Wells proposes a collectivist one-world state"' or "new world order" comprised of "socialist democracies." He advocates "universal conscription for service" and declares that "nationalist individualism... is the world's disease." He continues: "The manifest necessity for some collective world control to eliminate warfare and the less generally admitted necessity for a collective control of the economic and biological life of mankind, are aspects of one and the same process." He proposes that this be accomplished through "universal law" and propaganda (or education)." 1940 -- The New World Order is published by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and contains a select list of references on regional and world federation, together with some special plans for world order after the war. December 12, 1940 -- In The Congressional Record an article entitled A New World Order John G. Alexander calls for a world federation. 1942 -- The leftist Institute of Pacific Relations publishes Post War Worlds by P.E. Corbett: "World government is the ultimate aim... It must be recognized that the law of nations takes precedence over national law... The process will have to be assisted by the deletion of the nationalistic material employed in educational textbooks and its replacement by material explaining the benefits of wiser association." June 28, 1945 -- President Truman endorses world government in a speech: "It will be just as easy for nations to get along in a republic of the world as it is for us to get along in a republic of the United States." October 24, 1945 -- The United Nations Charter becomes effective. Also on October 24, Senator Glen Taylor (D-Idaho) introduces Senate Resolution 183 calling upon the U.S. Senate to go on record as favoring creation of a world republic including an international police force. 1946 -- Alger Hiss is elected President of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Hiss holds this office until 1949. Early in 1950, he is convicted of perjury and sentenced to prison after a sensational trial and Congressional hearing in which Whittaker Chambers, a former senior editor of Time, testifies that Hiss was a member of his Communist Party cell. 1946 -- The Teacher and World Government by former editor of the NEA Journal (National Education Association) Joy Elmer Morgan is published. He says: "In the struggle to establish an adequate world government, the teacher... can do much to prepare the hearts and minds of children for global understanding and cooperation... At the very heart of all the agencies which will assure the coming of world government must stand the school, the teacher, and the organized profession." 1947 -- The American Education Fellowship, formerly the Progressive Education Association, organized by John Dewey, calls for the: "... establishment of a genuine world order, an order in which national sovereignty is subordinate to world authority... " October, 1947 -- NEA Associate Secretary William Carr writes in the NEA Journal that teachers should: "... teach about the various proposals that have been made for the strengthening of the United Nations and the establishment of a world citizenship and world government." 1948 -- Walden II by behavioral psychologist B.F. Skinner proposes "a perfect society or new and more perfect order" in which children are reared by the State, rather than by their parents and are trained from birth to demonstrate only desirable behavior and characteristics. Skinner's ideas would be widely implemented by educators in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s as Values Clarification and Outcome Based Education. July, 1948 -- Britain's Sir Harold Butler, in the CFR's Foreign Affairs, sees "a New World Order" taking shape: "How far can the life of nations, which for centuries have thought of themselves as distinct and unique, be merged with the life of other nations? How far are they prepared to sacrifice a part of their sovereignty without which there can be no effective economic or political union?... Out of the prevailing confusion a new world is taking shape... which may point the way toward the new order... That will be the beginning of a real United Nations, no longer crippled by a split personality, but held together by a common faith." 1948 -- UNESCO president and Fabian Socialist, Sir Julian Huxley, calls for a radical eugenic policy in UNESCO: Its Purpose and Its Philosophy. He states: "Thus, even though it is quite true that any radical eugenic policy of controlled human breeding will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake that much that is now unthinkable may at least become thinkable." 1948 -- The preliminary draft of a World Constitution is published by U.S. educators advocating regional federation on the way toward world federation or government with England incorporated into a European federation. The Constitution provides for a "World Council" along with a "Chamber of Guardians" to enforce world law. Also included is a "Preamble""Federal Republic of the World" to seize private property for federal use. calling upon nations to surrender their arms to the world government, and includes the right of this February 9, 1950 -- The Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee introduces Senate Concurrent Resolution 66 which begins: "Whereas, in order to achieve universal peace and justice, the present Charter of the United Nations should be changed to provide a true world government constitution." The resolution was first introduced in the Senate on September 13, 1949 by Senator Glen Taylor (D-Idaho). Senator Alexander Wiley (R-Wisconsin) called it "a consummation devoutly to be wished for" and said, "I understand your proposition is either change the United Nations, or change or create, by a separate convention, a world order." Senator Taylor later stated: "We would have to sacrifice considerable sovereignty to the world organization to enable them to levy taxes in their own right to support themselves." 1950 -- In testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, international financier James P Warburg said: "we shall have a world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest." April 12, 1952 -- John Foster Dulles, later to become Secretary of State, says in a speech to the American Bar Association in Louisville, Kentucky, that "treaty laws can override the Constitution." He says treaties can take power away from Congress and give them to the President. They can take powers from the States and give them to the Federal Government or to some international body and they can cut across the rights given to the people by their constitutional Bill of Rights. A Senate amendment, proposed by GOP Senator John Bricker, would have provided that no treaty could supersede the Constitution, but it fails to pass by one vote. 1954 -- Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands establishes the Bilderbergers, international politicians and bankers who meet secretly on an annual basis. 1954 -- H. Rowan Gaither, Jr., President - Ford Foundation said to Norman Dodd of the Congressional Reese Commission: "... all of us here at the policy-making level have had experience with directives... from the White House... . The substance of them is that we shall use our grant-making power so as to alter our life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union." 1954 -- Senator William Jenner said: "Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people... outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded and is sure that it is the winning side.... All the strange developments in the foreign policy agreements may be traced to this group who are going to make us over to suit their pleasure.... This political action group has its own local political support organizations, its own pressure groups, its own vested interests, its foothold within our government, and its own propaganda apparatus." 1958 -- World Peace through World Law is published, where authors Grenville Clark and Louis Sohn advocate using the U.N. as a governing body for the world, world disarmament, a world police force and legislature. 1959 -- The Council on Foreign Relations calls for a New International Order Study Number 7, issued on November 25, advocated: "... new international order [which] must be responsive to world aspirations for peace, for social and economic change... an international order... including states labeling themselves as 'socialist' [communist]." 1959 -- The World Constitution and Parliament Association is founded which later develops a Diagram of World Government under the Constitution for the Federation of Earth. 1959 -- The Mid-Century Challenge to U.S. Foreign Policy is published, sponsored by the Rockefeller Brothers' Fund. It explains that the U.S.: "... cannot escape, and indeed should welcome... the task which history has imposed on us. This is the task of helping to shape a new world order in all its dimensions -- spiritual, economic, political, social." September 9, 1960 -- President Eisenhower signs Senate Joint Resolution 170, promoting the concept of a federal Atlantic Union. Pollster and Atlantic Union Committee treasurer, Elmo Roper, later delivers an address titled, The Goal Is Government of All the World, in which he states: "For it becomes clear that the first step toward World Government cannot be completed until we have advanced on the four fronts: the economic, the military, the political and the social." 1961 -- The U.S. State Department issues a plan to disarm all nations and arm the United Nations. State Department Document Number 7277 is entitled Freedom From War: The U.S. Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World. It details a three-stage plan to disarm all nations and arm the U.N. with the final stage in which "no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force." March 1, 1962 -- Sen. Clark speaking on the floor of the Senate about PL 87-297 which calls for the disbanding of all armed forces and the prohibition of their re-establishment in any form whatsoever. "... This program is the fixed, determined and approved policy of the government of the United States." 1962 -- New Calls for World Federalism. In a study titled, A World Effectively Controlled by the United Nations, CFR member Lincoln Bloomfield states: "... if the communist dynamic was greatly abated, the West might lose whatever incentive it has for world government." The Future of Federalism by author Nelson Rockefeller is published. The one-time Governor of New York, claims that current events compellingly demand a "new world order," as the old order is crumbling, and there is "a new and free order struggling to be born." Rockefeller says there is: "a fever of nationalism... [but] the nation-state is becoming less and less competent to perform its international political tasks....These are some of the reasons pressing us to lead vigorously toward the true building of a new world order... [with] voluntary service... and our dedicated faith in the brotherhood of all mankind.... Sooner perhaps than we may realize... there will evolve the bases for a federal structure of the free world." 1963 -- J. William Fulbright, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee speaks at a symposium sponsored by the Fund for the Republic, a left-wing project of the Ford Foundation: "The case for government by elites is irrefutable... government by the people is possible but highly improbable." 1964 -- Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Handbook II is published. Author Benjamin Bloom states: "... a large part of what we call 'good teaching' is the teacher's ability to attain affective objectives through challenging the students' fixed beliefs." His Outcome-Based Education (OBE) method of teaching would first be tried as Mastery Learning in Chicago schools. After five years, Chicago students' test scores had plummeted causing outrage among parents. OBE would leave a trail of wreckage wherever it would be tried and under whatever name it would be used. At the same time, it would become crucial to globalists for overhauling the education system to promote attitude changes among school students. 1964 -- Visions of Order by Richard Weaver is published. He describes: "progressive educators as a 'revolutionary cabal' engaged in 'a systematic attempt to undermine society's traditions and beliefs.'" 1967 -- Richard Nixon calls for New World Order. In Asia after Vietnam, in the October issue of Foreign Affairs, Nixon writes of nations' dispositions to evolve regional approaches to development needs and to the evolution of a "new world order." 1968 -- Joy Elmer Morgan, former editor of the NEA Journal publishes The American Citizens Handbook in which he says: "the coming of the United Nations and the urgent necessity that it evolve into a more comprehensive form of world government places upon the citizens of the United States an increased obligation to make the most of their citizenship which now widens into active world citizenship." July 26, 1968 -- Nelson Rockefeller pledges support of the New World Order. In an Associated Press report, Rockefeller pledges that, "as President, he would work toward international creation of a new world order." 1970 -- Education and the mass media promote world order. In Thinking About A New World Order for the Decade 1990, author Ian Baldwin, Jr. asserts that: "... the World Law Fund has begun a worldwide research and educational program that will introduce a new, emerging discipline -- world order -- into educational curricula throughout the world... and to concentrate some of its energies on bringing basic world order concepts into the mass media again on a worldwide level." 1972 -- President Nixon visits China. In his toast to Chinese Premier Chou En-lai, former CFR member and now President, Richard Nixon, expresses "the hope that each of us has to build a new world order." May 18, 1972 -- In speaking of the coming of world government, Roy M. Ash, director of the Office of Management and Budget, declares that: "within two decades the institutional framework for a world economic community will be in place... [and] aspects of individual sovereignty will be given over to a supernational authority." 1973 -- The Trilateral Commission is established. Banker David Rockefeller organizes this new private body and chooses Zbigniew Brzezinski, later National Security Advisor to President Carter, as the Commission's first director and invites Jimmy Carter to become a founding member. 1973 -- Humanist Manifesto II is published: "The next century can be and should be the humanistic century... we stand at the dawn of a new age... a secular society on a planetary scale.... As non-theists we begin with humans not God, nature not deity... we deplore the division of humankind on nationalistic grounds.... Thus we look to the development of a system of world law and a world order based upon transnational federal government.... The true revolution is occurring." April, 1974 -- Former U. S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, Trilateralist and CFR member Richard Gardner's article The Hard Road to World Order is published in the CFR's Foreign Affairs where he states that: "the 'house of world order' will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down... but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault." 1974 -- The World Conference of Religion for Peace, held in Louvain, Belgium is held. Douglas Roche presents a report entitled We Can Achieve a New World Order. The U.N. calls for wealth redistribution: In a report entitled New International Economic Order, the U.N. General Assembly outlines a plan to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor nations. 1975 -- A study titled, A New World Order, is published by the Center of International Studies, Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Studies, Princeton University. 1975 -- In Congress, 32 Senators and 92 Representatives sign A Declaration of Interdependence, written by historian Henry Steele Commager. The Declaration states that: "we must join with others to bring forth a new world order... Narrow notions of national sovereignty must not be permitted to curtail that obligation." Congresswoman Marjorie Holt refuses to sign the Declaration saying: "It calls for the surrender of our national sovereignty to international organizations. It declares that our economy should be regulated by international authorities. It proposes that we enter a 'new world order' that would redistribute the wealth created by the American people." 1975 -- Retired Navy Admiral Chester Ward, former Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy and former CFR member, writes in a critique that the goal of the CFR is the "submergence of U. S. sovereignty and national independence into an all powerful one-world government... " 1975 -- Kissinger on the Couch is published. Authors Phyllis Schlafly and former CFR member Chester Ward state: "Once the ruling members of the CFR have decided that the U.S. government should espouse a particular policy, the very substantial research facilities of the CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy and to confound, discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition... " 1976 -- RIO: Reshaping the International Order is published by the globalist Club of Rome, calling for a new international order, including an economic redistribution of wealth. 1977 -- The Third Try at World Order is published. Author Harlan Cleveland of the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies calls for: "changing Americans' attitudes and institutions" for "complete disarmament (except for international soldiers)" and "for individual entitlement to food, health and education." 1977 -- Imperial Brain Trust by Laurence Shoup and William Minter is published. The book takes a critical look at the Council on Foreign Relations with chapters such as: Shaping a New World Order: The Council's Blueprint for Global Hegemony, 1939-1944 and Toward the 1980's: The Council's Plans for a New World Order. 1977 -- The Trilateral Connection appears in the July edition of Atlantic Monthly. Written by Jeremiah Novak, it says: "For the third time in this century, a group of American schools, businessmen, and government officials is planning to fashion a New World Order... " 1977 -- Leading educator Mortimer Adler publishes Philosopher at Large in which he says: "... if local civil government is necessary for local civil peace, then world civil government is necessary for world peace." 1979 -- Barry Goldwater, retiring Republican Senator from Arizona, publishes his autobiography With No Apologies. He writes: "In my view The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power -- political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. All this is to be done in the interest of creating a more peaceful, more productive world community. What the Trilateralists truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. They believe the abundant materialism they propose to create will overwhelm existing differences. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future." 1984 -- The Power to Lead is published. Author James McGregor Burns admits: "The framers of the U.S. constitution have simply been too shrewd for us. The have outwitted us. They designed separate institutions that cannot be unified by mechanical linkages, frail bridges, tinkering. If we are to 'turn the Founders upside down' -- we must directly confront the constitutional structure they erected." 1985 -- Norman Cousins, the honorary chairman of Planetary Citizens for the World We Chose, is quoted in Human Events: "World government is coming, in fact, it is inevitable. No arguments for or against it can change that fact." Cousins was also president of the World Federalist Association, an affiliate of the World Association for World Federation (WAWF), headquartered in Amsterdam. WAWF is a leading force for world federal government and is accredited by the U.N. as a Non-Governmental Organization. 1987 -- The Secret Constitution and the Need for Constitutional Change is sponsored in part by the Rockefeller Foundation. Some thoughts of author Arthur S. Miller are: "... a pervasive system of thought control exists in the United States... the citizenry is indoctrinated by employment of the mass media and the system of public education... people are told what to think about... the old order is crumbling... Nationalism should be seen as a dangerous social disease... A new vision is required to plan and manage the future, a global vision that will transcend national boundaries and eliminate the poison of nationalistic solutions... a new Constitution is necessary." 1988 -- Former Under-secretary of State and CFR member George Ball in a January 24 interview in the New York Times says: "The Cold War should no longer be the kind of obsessive concern that it is. Neither side is going to attack the other deliberately... If we could internationalize by using the U.N. in conjunction with the Soviet Union, because we now no longer have to fear, in most cases, a Soviet veto, then we could begin to transform the shape of the world and might get the U.N. back to doing something useful... Sooner or later we are going to have to face restructuring our institutions so that they are not confined merely to the nation-states. Start first on a regional and ultimately you could move to a world basis." December 7, 1988 -- In an address to the U.N., Mikhail Gorbachev calls for mutual consensus: "World progress is only possible through a search for universal human consensus as we move forward to a new world order." May 12, 1989 -- President Bush invites the Soviets to join World Order. Speaking to the graduating class at Texas A&M University, Mr. Bush states that the United States is ready to welcome the Soviet Union "back into the world order." 1989 -- Carl Bernstein's (Woodward and Bernstein of Watergate fame) book Loyalties: A Son's Memoir is published. His father and mother had been members of the Communist party. Bernstein's father tells his son about the book: "You're going to prove [Sen. Joseph] McCarthy was right, because all he was saying is that the system was loaded with Communists. And he was right... I'm worried about the kind of book you're going to write and about cleaning up McCarthy. The problem is that everybody said he was a liar; you're saying he was right... I agree that the Party was a force in the country." 1990 -- The World Federalist Association faults the American press. Writing in their Summer/Fall newsletter, Deputy Director Eric Cox describes world events over the past year or two and declares: "It's sad but true that the slow-witted American press has not grasped the significance of most of these developments. But most federalists know what is happening... And they are not frightened by the old bug-a-boo of sovereignty." September 11, 1990 -- President Bush calls the Gulf War an opportunity for the New World Order. In an address to Congress entitled Toward a New World Order, Mr. Bush says: "The crisis in the Persian Gulf offers a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times... a new world order can emerge in which the nations of the world, east and west, north and south, can prosper and live in harmony.... Today the new world is struggling to be born." September 25, 1990 -- In an address to the U.N., Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze describes Iraq's invasion of Kuwait as "an act of terrorism [that] has been perpetrated against the emerging New World Order." On December 31, Gorbachev declares that the New World Order would be ushered in by the Gulf Crisis. October 1, 1990 -- In a U.N. address, President Bush speaks of the: "... collective strength of the world community expressed by the U.N. ... an historic movement towards a new world order... a new partnership of nations... a time when humankind came into its own... to bring about a revolution of the spirit and the mind and begin a journey into a... new age." 1991 -- Author Linda MacRae-Campbell publishes How to Start a Revolution at Your School in the publication In Context. She promotes the use of "change agents" as "self-acknowledged revolutionaries" and "co-conspirators." 1991 -- President Bush praises the New World Order in a State of Union Message: "What is at stake is more than one small country, it is a big idea -- a new world order... to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind... based on shared principles and the rule of law.... The illumination of a thousand points of light.... The winds of change are with us now." February 6, 1991 -- President Bush tells the Economic Club of New York: "My vision of a new world order foresees a United Nations with a revitalized peacekeeping function." June, 1991 -- The Council on Foreign Relations co-sponsors an assembly Rethinking America's Security: Beyond Cold War to New World Order which is attended by 65 prestigious members of government, labor, academia, the media, military, and the professions from nine countries. Later, several of the conference participants joined some 100 other world leaders for another closed door meeting of the Bilderberg Society in Baden Baden, Germany. The Bilderbergers also exert considerable clout in determining the foreign policies of their respective governments. While at that meeting, David Rockefeller said in a speech: "We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." July, 1991 -- The Southeastern World Affairs Institute discusses the New World Order. In a program, topics include, Legal Structures for a New World Order and The United Nations: From its Conception to a New World Order. Participants include a former director of the U.N.'s General Legal Division, and a former Secretary General of International Planned Parenthood. Late July, 1991 -- On a Cable News Network program, CFR member and former CIA director Stansfield Turner (Rhodes scholar), when asked about Iraq, responded: "We have a much bigger objective. We've got to look at the long run here. This is an example -- the situation between the United Nations and Iraq -- where the United Nations is deliberately intruding into the sovereignty of a sovereign nation... Now this is a marvelous precedent (to be used in) all countries of the world... " October 29, 1991 -- David Funderburk, former U. S. Ambassador to Romania, tells a North Carolina audience: "George Bush has been surrounding himself with people who believe in one-world government. They believe that the Soviet system and the American system are converging." The vehicle to bring this about, said Funderburk, is the United Nations, "the majority of whose 166 member states are socialist, atheist, and anti-American." Funderburk served as ambassador in Bucharest from 1981 to 1985, when he resigned in frustration over U.S. support of the oppressive regime of the late Rumanian dictator, Nicolae Ceausescu. October 30, 1991: -- President Gorbachev at the Middle East Peace Talks in Madrid states: "We are beginning to see practical support. And this is a very significant sign of the movement towards a new era, a new age... We see both in our country and elsewhere... ghosts of the old thinking... When we rid ourselves of their presence, we will be better able to move toward a new world order... relying on the relevant mechanisms of the United Nations." Elsewhere, in Alexandria, Virginia, Elena Lenskaya, Counsellor to the Minister of Education of Russia, delivers the keynote address for a program titled, Education for a New World Order. 1992 -- The Twilight of Sovereignty by CFR member (and former Citicorp Chairman) Walter Wriston is published, in which he claims: "A truly global economy will require ... compromises of national sovereignty... There is no escaping the system." 1992 -- The United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) Earth Summit takes place in Rio de Janeiro this year, headed by Conference Secretary-General Maurice Strong. The main products of this summit are the Biodiversity Treaty and Agenda 21, which the U.S. hesitates to sign because of opposition at home due to the threat to sovereignty and economics. The summit says the first world's wealth must be transferred to the third world. July 20, 1992 -- Time magazine publishes The Birth of the Global Nation by Strobe Talbott, Rhodes Scholar, roommate of Bill Clinton at Oxford University, CFR Director, and Trilateralist, in which he writes: "All countries are basically social arrangements... No matter how permanent or even sacred they may seem at any one time, in fact they are all artificial and temporary... Perhaps national sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all... But it has taken the events in our own wondrous and terrible century to clinch the case for world government." As an editor of Time, Talbott defended Clinton during his presidential campaign. He was appointed by President Clinton as the number two person at the State Department behind Secretary of State Warren Christopher, former Trilateralist and former CFR Vice-Chairman and Director. Talbott was confirmed by about two-thirds of the U.S. Senate despite his statement about the unimportance of national sovereignty. September 29, 1992 -- At a town hall meeting in Los Angeles, Trilateralist and former CFR president Winston Lord delivers a speech titled Changing Our Ways: America and the New World, in which he remarks: "To a certain extent, we are going to have to yield some of our sovereignty, which will be controversial at home... [Under] the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)... some Americans are going to be hurt as low-wage jobs are taken away." Lord became an Assistant Secretary of State in the Clinton administration. 1992 -- President Bush addressing the General Assembly of the U.N said: "It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance." Winter, 1992-93 -- The CFR's Foreign Affairs publishes Empowering the United Nations by U.N. Secretary General Boutros-Boutros Ghali, who asserts: "It is undeniable that the centuries-old doctrine of absolute and exclusive sovereignty no longer stands... Underlying the rights of the individual and the rights of peoples is a dimension of universal sovereignty that resides in all humanity... It is a sense that increasingly finds expression in the gradual expansion of international law... In this setting the significance of the United Nations should be evident and accepted." 1993 -- Strobe Talbott receives the Norman Cousins Global Governance Award for his 1992 Time article, The Birth of the Global Nation and in appreciation for what he has done "for the cause of global governance." President Clinton writes a letter of congratulation which states: "Norman Cousins worked for world peace and world government.... Strobe Talbott's lifetime achievements as a voice for global harmony have earned him this recognition... He will be a worthy recipient of the Norman Cousins Global Governance Award. Best wishes... for future success." Not only does President Clinton use the specific term, "world government," but he also expressly wishes the WFA "future success" in pursuing world federal government. Talbott proudly accepts the award, but says the WFA should have given it to the other nominee, Mikhail Gorbachev. July 18, 1993 -- CFR member and Trilateralist Henry Kissinger writes in the Los Angeles Times concerning NAFTA: "What Congress will have before it is not a conventional trade agreement but the architecture of a new international system... a first step toward a new world order." August 23, 1993 -- Christopher Hitchens, Socialist friend of Bill Clinton when he was at Oxford University, says in a C-SPAN interview: "... it is, of course the case that there is a ruling class in this country, and that it has allies internationally." October 30, 1993 -- Washington Post ombudsman Richard Harwood does an op-ed piece about the role of the CFR's media members: "Their membership is an acknowledgment of their ascension into the American ruling class [where] they do not merely analyze and interpret foreign policy for the United States; they help make it." January/February, 1994 -- The CFR's Foreign Affairs prints an opening article by CFR Senior Fellow Michael Clough in which he writes that the "Wise Men" (e.g. Paul Nitze, Dean Acheson, George Kennan, and John J. McCloy) have: "assiduously guarded it [American foreign policy] for the past 50 years... They ascended to power during World War II... This was as it should be. National security and the national interest, they argued must transcend the special interests and passions of the people who make up America... How was this small band of Atlantic-minded internationalists able to triumph ... Eastern internationalists were able to shape and staff the burgeoning foreign policy institutions... As long as the Cold War endured and nuclear Armageddon seemed only a missile away, the public was willing to tolerate such an undemocratic foreign policy making system." 1994 -- In the Human Development Report, published by the UN Development Program, there was a section called "Global Governance For the 21st Century". The administrator for this program was appointed by Bill Clinton. His name is James Gustave Speth. The opening sentence of the report said: "Mankind's problems can no longer be solved by national government. What is needed is a World Government. This can best be achieved by strengthening the United Nations system." 1995 -- The State of the World Forum took place in the fall of this year, sponsored by the Gorbachev Foundation located at the Presidio in San Francisco. Foundation President Jim Garrison chairs the meeting of who's-whos from around the world including Margaret Thatcher, Maurice Strong, George Bush, Mikhail Gorbachev and others. Conversation centers around the oneness of mankind and the coming global government. However, the term "global governance" is now used in place of "new world order" since the latter has become a political liability, being a lightning rod for opponents of global government. 1996 -- The United Nations 420-page report Our Global NeighborhoodConference on Global Governance in 1998 for the purpose of submitting to the world the necessary treaties and agreements for ratification by the year 2000. is published. It outlines a plan for "global governance," calling for an international _____ Text Version | Commentary page | Home | Constitution Society _____ >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news . _____ _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -- >From the desk of mary rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 23:54:30 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:24:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Ecologically benovolent Economic Disaster: A time for uniting souls in piety, reviving personal moral controls and spreading compassion In-Reply-To: <00df01c9858a$f08ccc30$d1a66490$@net> Message-ID: <711891.18873.qm@web94904.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Mary, ? With much appreciation for the desire for transforming thought patterns, it is also important to get to the basic to what people have been relating. Barak Hussein Obama is talking to the real world of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Christians and non-believers . I would like all to consider the attached for defining the actions for appreciating the inter-faith commons for ecologically benevolent and socially cohesive governance. We need to transform behaviour,consumption, thought patterns. It is movement away from ecologically hostile practices. We understand very well that recession is ecologically benvoelent so to think of getting multiplied addition to the wealth and leisure of few in ecologically hostile habitats though beating recession is neither desirable nor sustainable. ? I was watching the BBC debate day before yesterday in which Finance Minister of Sweden, Vice Chairman of AIG, Prime Minister of Guyana and others were participating. CEOs were not ready to take personal responsibility. They were calling for improving the regulatory mechanism without calling for the end of ecologically hostile generation of money by private banks. We need to reaffirm control on the creation of public money. ? With warmest regards and best wishes and prayers for all, ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Tue, 3/2/09, mary rose wrote: From: mary rose Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas To: "'Discussion Forum for Global Justice'" , FixGov at yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 4:36 AM Maybe it's just plain time to understand the failure of a human designed political system to effectively solve problems. Maybe it's time to look at objectively-constructed computerized models to determine "what works" and "what doesn't work." Maybe it's time to transcend words like "capitalism," "communism," and "socialism" and begin again by integrating the most effective parts of each one into a new system that is life-enhancing, instead of letting "money interests" control. This is what Dr. Jay Earley's book: "Transforming Human Culture: Social Evolution and the Planetary Crisis" is about. Perhaps, Einstein's observance that problems cannot be solved by thinking in terms of the "same level that created them." Maybe it is simply time to move on into "what works" and "what doesn't work" and go with it. Recall that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Time to move out of the box folks. Reading Dr. Bruce Lipton's book: "The Biology of Belief: The science of how thoughts control life" may also help one move into another level of thought. Try it. Ask Obama to try it. It's time to move on. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:22 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) In the Face of Economic Disaster, Republicans Have No Ideas http://www.alternet.org/story/124524/in_the_face_of_economic_disaster%2C_rep ublicans_have_no_ideas_/ By Frank Rich, The New York Times. Posted February 2, 2009. Instead of trying to help figure the way out of our economic mess, Republicans are busy trying to get in the good graces of Rush Limbaugh. Here's a bottom line to keep you up at night: The economy is falling faster than Washington can get moving. President Obama says his stimulus plan will save or create four million jobs in two years. In the last four months of 2008 alone, employment fell by 1.9 million. Do the math. The abyss is widening. Of the 30 companies in the Dow Jones industrial index, 22 have announced job cuts since October. Unemployment is up in all 50 states, with layoffs at both high-tech companies (Microsoft) and low (Caterpillar). The December job loss in retailing is the worst since at least 1939. The new-home sales rate has fallen to its all-time low since record-keeping began in 1963. What are Americans still buying? Big Macs, Campbell?s soup, Hershey?s chocolate and Spam ? the four food groups of the apocalypse. The crisis is at least as grave as the one that confronted us ? and, for a time, united us ? after 9/11. Which is why the antics among Republicans on Capitol Hill seem so surreal. These are the same politicians who only yesterday smeared the patriotism of any dissenters from Bush?s ?war on terror.? Where is their own patriotism now that economic terror is inflicting far more harm on their constituents than Saddam Hussein?s nonexistent W.M.D.? The House stimulus bill is an inevitably imperfect hodgepodge-in-progress. Obama?s next move, a new plan to prevent the collapse of America?s banks, may prove more problematic still, especially given the subpar record of the new Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, in warding off calamity while at the New York Fed. No one should expect the Republicans to give the new president carte blanche, fall blindly into lock step or be ?post-partisan.? (Though that?s exactly what the G.O.P. demanded of Democrats with Bush: You were either with him or with the terrorists.) But you might think that a loyal opposition would want to pitch in and play a serious role at a time of national peril. Not by singing ?Kumbaya? but by collaborating on possible solutions and advancing a policy debate that many Americans? lives depend on. As Raymond Moley, of F.D.R.?s brain trust, said of the cross-party effort at the harrowing start of that presidency in March 1933, Hoover and Roosevelt acolytes ?had forgotten to be Republicans or Democrats? as they urgently tried to rescue their country. The current G.O.P. acts as if it ? and we ? have all the time in the world. It kept hoping in vain that the fast-waning Blago sideshow would somehow impale Obama or Rahm Emanuel. It has come perilously close to wishing aloud that a terrorist attack will materialize to discredit Obama?s reversals of Bush policy on torture, military tribunals and Gitmo. The party?s sole consistent ambition is to play petty politics to gum up the works. If anything, the Republican Congressional leadership seems to be emulating John McCain?s September stunt of ?suspending? his campaign to ?fix? the Wall Street meltdown. For all his bluster, McCain in the end had no fixes to offer and sat like a pet rock at the White House meeting on the crisis before capitulating to the bailout. His imitators likewise posture in public about their determination to take action, then do nothing while more and more Americans cry for help. The problem is not that House Republicans gave the stimulus bill zero votes last week. That?s transitory political symbolism, and it had no effect on the outcome. Some of the naysayers will vote for the revised final bill anyway (and claim, Kerry-style, that they were against it before they were for it). The more disturbing problem is that the party has zero leaders and zero ideas. It is as AWOL in this disaster as the Bush administration was during Katrina. If the country wasn?t suffering, the Republicans? behavior would be a laugh riot. The House minority leader, John Boehner, from the economic wasteland of Ohio, declared on ?Meet the Press? last Sunday that the G.O.P. didn?t want to be ?the party of ?No? ? but ?the party of better ideas, better solutions.? And what are those ideas, exactly? He said he?ll get back to us ?over the coming months.? His deputy, the Virginia congressman Eric Cantor, has followed the same script, claiming that the G.O.P. will not be ?the party of ?No? ? but will someday offer unspecified ?solutions and alternatives.? Not to be left out, the party?s great white hope, Sarah Palin, unveiled a new political action committee last week with a Web site also promising ?fresh ideas.? But as the liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas Z?niga observed, the site invites visitors to make donations and read Palin hagiography while offering no links to any ideas, fresh or otherwise. For its own contribution to this intellectual void, the Republican National Committee convened last week under a new banner, ?Republican for a Reason.? Perhaps that unidentified reason will be determined by a panel of judges on a TV reality show. It had better be brilliant given that only five states (with 20 total electoral votes) now lean red in party affiliation, according to Gallup. At this rate the G.O.P. will be in Alf Landon territory by 2012. The Republicans do have one idea, of course, but it?s hardly fresh: more and bigger tax cuts, particularly for business and the well-off. That?s the sum of their ?alternative? stimulus plan. Obama has tried to accommodate this panacea, perhaps to a fault. Mainstream economists in both parties believe that tax cuts in the stimulus package will deliver far less bang for the buck than, say, infrastructure spending. The tax-cut stimulus embraced a year ago by the G.O.P. induced next-to-no consumer spending as Americans merely banked the savings or paid down debt. We also now know conclusively that the larger Bush tax cuts, besides running up record deficits and exacerbating income inequality, were also at best a placebo on our road to ruin. In a January survey of economists, including former McCain advisers like Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Mark Zandi, The Washington Post determined that the job growth the Bush administration kept bragging about (?52 straight months!?) was a mirage inflated by the housing bubble. Job growth ? about 2 percent ? was in fact the most tepid of any eight-year period ?since data collection began seven decades ago.? Gross domestic product grew at a slower pace than in any eight years since the Truman administration. But even if tax cuts alone could jump-start a recovery, they couldn?t do the heavy lifting that Obama has promised and the country desperately needs: a down payment on a new economy to replace our dilapidated 20th-century model and bring back long-term growth. The Republicans don?t acknowledge the need for this transformation, or debate it in good conscience, preferring instead to hyperventilate over the contraceptives in a small family-planning program since removed from the stimulus bill. All it takes is the specter of condoms for the party of Vitter, Foley and Craig to go gaga. The Republicans? other preoccupation remains Rush Limbaugh, who is by default becoming their de facto leader. While most Americans are fearing fear itself, G.O.P. politicians are tripping over themselves in morbid terror of Rush. These pratfalls commenced after Obama casually told some Republican congressmen (correctly) that they won?t ?get things done? if they take their orders from Limbaugh. That?s all the stimulus the big man needed to go on a new bender of self-aggrandizement. He boasted that Obama is ?more frightened? of him than he is of the Republican leaders in the House or Senate. He said of the new president, ?I hope he fails.? Obama no doubt finds Limbaugh?s grandiosity more amusing than frightening, but G.O.P. politicians are shaking like Jell-O. When asked by Andrea Mitchell of NBC News on Wednesday if he shared Limbaugh?s hope that Obama fails, Eric Cantor spun like a top before running off, as it happened, to appear on Limbaugh?s radio show. Mike Pence of Indiana, No. 3 in the Republican House leadership, similarly squirmed when asked if he agreed with Limbaugh. Though the Republicans? official, poll-driven line is that they want Obama to succeed, they?d rather abandon that disingenuous nicety than cross Rush. Most pathetic of all was Phil Gingrey, a right-wing Republican congressman from Georgia, who mildly criticized both Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to Politico because they ?stand back and throw bricks? while lawmakers labor in the trenches. So many called Gingrey?s office to complain that the poor congressman begged Limbaugh to bring him on air to publicly recant on Wednesday. As Gingrey abjectly apologized to talk radio?s commandant for his ?stupid comments? and ?foot-in-mouth disease,? he sounded like the inmate in a B-prison-movie cowering before the warden after a failed jailbreak. ?It?s up to me to hijack the Obama honeymoon,? Limbaugh soon gloated, ?and I?ve done it.? In his dreams. He has hijacked what?s left of the Republican Party; the Obama honeymoon remains intact. The nightmare is that we have so irrelevant, clownish and childish an opposition party at a moment when America is in an all-hands-on-deck emergency that?s as trying as war. To paraphrase a dictum that has been variously attributed to two of our most storied leaders in times of great challenge, Thomas Paine and George Patton, the Republicans should either lead, follow or get out of the grown-ups? way. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Agenda for sustainable cities and villages.doc Type: application/msword Size: 151040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 05:42:39 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:12:39 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: [RAHBAR] Looking for an investment ? Message-ID: <422150.52504.qm@web94902.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Sharing a work for understanding and reflection. --- On Wed, 4/2/09, SAJID AHMED wrote: From: SAJID AHMED Subject: [RAHBAR] Looking for an investment ? To: anwaradl at yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009, 9:00 PM ? ? Looking for an investment??? ... ... .... Here are Some Suggestions: ? ? Give a copy of Quraan to someone and each time they read from it, you will gain hasanaat ? ? Donate a wheel chair to a hospital and time a sick person uses it, you will gain hasanaat ? Share constructive reading material with someone ? ? Help in educating a child ? Teach someone to recite a dua. With each recitation, you will gain hasanaat ? Share a dua or Quraan CD ? Participate in the building of a Masjid ? Place a water cooler in a public place... ? Plant a tree. Each time any person or an animal sits?under its shade or eats from the tree, you will gain hasanaat ? Share this mail to someone. If one person applies any of the above you will receive your hasanaat until the Day of Judgment. ? ? ? ? Get rid of Add-Ons in your email ID. Get yourname at ymail.com. Sign up now! Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 27121 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 30596 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 45729 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 33074 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9034 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 34486 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 17049 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 13967 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 7424 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 48642 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 42751 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 48969 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 20915 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 25158 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 23299 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19251 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17253 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 12166 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 2548 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 2660 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 02:10:59 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:40:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] FW: [FixGov] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 In-Reply-To: <001601c98894$6620c210$32624630$@net> Message-ID: <296523.18900.qm@web94904.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Mary, ? I have read your post on changing the infrastructure carefully. I took a print out and took that home for leisurely reading. I wish to share the Alfin Toffler and Frank Feather both of them did not see the limits to resources.. Frank Feather dreamt of housing all the 6 billion in a New York like city.. Considering such ecologicaly stupid assertions, there is a need to see the value in restoring dignity for agriculture that was demeaned. Romanian Government has been providing incentives to couple for settling in the rural areas. I think we should all look for social futures that is GHG free and carbon neutral. ? I would like to learn from Bill about the leisure use pattern of typical Gaian community. You are aware I am advocating the inter-faith common commands for prayer, recitation, repentance and so on for transformation of the leisure use patterns. Communications of the prophets are very relevant ecologically. I am sharing papers with a focus on inter-faith commons, describtion of carbon-neutral neighbour hood discussions and a presentation of monotheistic solutions for economic crisis. I would be grateful for comments especially from Bill Ellis and Vern. ? With lots of appreciation for generating efforts for collective and personal responsbilities in shaping the future policy environment. ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam Delhi, India --- On Sat, 7/2/09, mary rose wrote: From: mary rose Subject: [GJM] FW: [FixGov] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 To: "'Discussion Forum for Global Justice'" , FixGov at yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 7 February, 2009, 1:22 AM Good stuff happening. With love and appreciation to all. m r -----Original Message----- From: FixGov at yahoogroups.com [mailto:FixGov at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tranet at rangeley.org Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 6:41 PM To: FixGov FixGov Subject: Re: [FixGov] Changing the Infrastructure: Associated Challenges - was: FW: 46 Of 50 States Could File Bankruptcy In 2009-2010 > From: Vernon Woolf [mailto:VernonWoolf at HoloDynamics.com] > > ... Our current chaos in economics and governance is a prelude to a > new system. We can collapse or we can change our way of life. It's not > a difficult choice: we change or die. Our old "continual growth and > consumption" system was never sustainable. The new system is based on > a balance of resources economy and governance system. If you have a > better plan, please let us know. ... [snip] BE: Well said, Vern. Too few see the collapse of the past economic/social system as an opportunity for real CHANGE. The King is dead. Long live the KIng. Even Obama seems more interested in bailing out the failed and failing system than on creating a new one. His list of advisors and cabinet posts ( Rahm Emanuel, Greeg Judd, Lawrence Summers, Hilary Clinton etc.] are the same list of people who created the failure. Creative economists like Herman Daily, Joseph Stiglitz, Paul Hawken, Dean Baker, Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, Leo Hinderberry and many other progressive thinkers are waiting in the wings. In spite of Obamas slowness to create the change he promised it is happening. We-the-people are creating local opportunities with local skills and local resources. Local food co-ops. Local scripts, CoHousing, Peer Lending, LETS, Community Loan Funds, homeschooling, community learning centers, and many others are slowly growing in size and numbers. The old values of self-interest, competition and materialism are finally recognized as the evil they are. New values of public interest, cooperation, and the health of Gaia (the Earth and ALL of its life forms] is taking over. Corporate greed and consumerism are being seen for what they are -- formulas for disaster. There is hope that voices like yours will make it to rooms in the White House. Bill Ellis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGaianParadigm/files/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FixGov/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FixGov/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:FixGov-digest at yahoogroups.com mailto:FixGov-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: FixGov-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Agenda for sustainable cities and villages.doc Type: application/msword Size: 151040 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Carbon Neutral Neighbourhood Discussions.doc Type: application/msword Size: 44544 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Global crisis of the finance system- monotheistic solutions.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 198144 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 15:57:24 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:57:24 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace Message-ID: <011301c98bd2$f2bc27a0$d83476e0$@net> Peter, thank you for sending this. I feel it unfortunate that one has to sign up for iPeace to watch the video. And, while I did sign up, I had no time to watch it. Am so engrossed right now in trying to get the FutureDawning.org website launched. What is different about this website is that it engages all of the dynamics of what it takes to bring about peace. You know peace is first of all about creating peace and love within oneself, and I believe that this movie, recommended here by Peter, intended in that direction. However, this is not just about being a vegan, although I do believe this is a very compassionate and spiritual place from which to begin. And, I certainly in no way want to downplay the importance of this since I have not as yet seen it, but have only read the reviews. But I cannot help but write about what I find most appalling about our behavior as the human family today. And that is our inhumanity to other humans. But even as I write this, I do understand the underlying cause of it. And from this perspective can forgive it and accept that this aspect is only one part of a person?s behavior. It is not the total person. It is really about the state of our collective human consciousness today, and how to go about transforming it based in the science of human biology coupled with knowledge of both cosmology and archaeology through which we are able to verify our evolution. It is about tracing cause to its source and that, I believe began some 400,000 years ago when human life was introduced to Earth by ET?s from the Planet Nibiru, and as told in the Bible and through the translations of the thousands of Sumerian Tablets that have been found in the area of Sumer which is now Iraq. But, which has been suppressed. And, while I cannot go into all aspects of this now, it will be detailed in my book: ?The Sacred Quest for the Who of I Am.? Zechariah Sitchin has been so detailed in his translations of the Sumerian Tablets, and has woven these so closely into related paragraphs in the Bible, that it is extremely difficult to dispute their truth unless one takes both as mythological tales having no basis. Not only has Mr. Sitchin accomplished these translations and recorded them, he has also taken others interested in their revelations on expeditions to places around the world mentioned in both the Tablets and the Bible, and verified from actual archaeological findings, the recordings both of the tablets and Biblical reports. Based on the substantial evidence provided, far more detailed than the Bible itself, which we are asked to accept on the basis of faith, we can no longer ignore what is written in the Tablets. They must, along with any consideration for Biblical tales, be taken into account. However, back to the specific subject addressed here. What I find really so horrific about we ?Earthlings? today is that we can provide our pets with the finest of food today designed to keep them in excellent health, and we spend billions of dollars on them here in the U.S. in seeing they are well sheltered and cared for in every way; yet we treat other human beings that live across an imaginary Border, who have a different color of skin, and speak a different language, as less than human, or less than dogs. Now this may be taken to mean either the Mexico and U.S. Border, or the Israeli ? Palestinian Border. At the same time, from where I am today in understanding, I realize that the people who do these kinds of things are acting out of their conditioning. In other words, they have been programmed to think this way and to do these things . And, what we know today is that this programming lays in an individual?s sub-conscious mind, put there, most likely, by parental beliefs. And we know today, through scientific research, that this programming begins prior to conception and continues through ages seven to ten when it is continued as ?schooling. It is this type of programming then that sets the stage for our perception of the environment around us. The reason this is important is that researchers today also have discovered that it is not our genes that determine who we are, but it is our environment that determines who we are. But, a slight correction here also ? it is not really as much our environment that determines who we are, as it is our perception of our environment that is the most important factor. So, what we are seeing then, is that if someone perceives a person living on the other side of an imaginary border and who has a different color skin and speaks a different language as a threat to them, (which, in reality they may or may not be) then this person automatically becomes in their eyes ?the enemy,? and is thus believed to be the enemy and treated as less than human in many instances. One of the most important factors in our society today, and one that is seldom given the recognition it should have, is how many men, and now women, have been programmed by the military to see an enemy where there really is none. This is done in ?boot? camp in order to get them to participate in acts of war on behalf of a perceived leader who tells them they must take this action whether it is based in truth or not. Otherwise, these people could not go to war and perform some of the acts they are called upon to do. Then, these people come home from the war zones with their belief system intact, and pass it on to the rest of society, since they are never deprogrammed. Another thing that I want to bring into this dialog is the discussion that took place between Dr. Patrick Flanagan and myself, just prior to my computer crash, with regard to how energy vibrations, emanating from the killing of an animal or a person, reverberate throughout the Universe and set up an incoherent field pattern. And, when you have this kind of incoherent vibrational (subtle energy) pattern taking place, -- what Vern Woolf would term a ?downdraft? pattern ?then it becomes increasingly more difficult to reverse as time goes on and it is reinforced over and over again as the same behavior pattern continues. This holds true also for other abusive patterns, e.g., child, spousal, animal, etc. But somehow we need to find a way to reverse this pattern and to do it quickly. The time required for regular psychoanalysis, which in many instances does not work anyway, is also cost prohibitive. So we need to look at other more effective ways of accomplishing transformation. What we are faced with today is having to make a conscious choice as to whether or not we want, both as individuals and as the collective conscience of the United States, (and the world) to reprogram ourselves in order to re- establish the coherent vibrational patterns associated with ?spiritual thinking? with which most of us were born. The term ?spiritual? being associated with the subtle energy vibrations reflected as blue, purple, cr?me, and white in our personal aura. And, if you recall, as previously discussed, these colors are also reflected in Hz with the most coherent patterns being in the 700 to 1100 range with 1100 being the ?pure white light? of which most religions speak of as being ?divine?. And, while I do not have this documented as yet, what I intuitively feel, is that when we are in these upper vibrational ranges, we are in what many refer to as ?the flow? -- a state in which everything is seemingly effortless. And what this appears to be is what we refer to as the Zero Point Energy field. I am currently reading: ?The SUBTLE BODY ? An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy? compiled by Cyndi Dale, which is an amazing body of work covering almost anything one could ever think of to ask in regard to energy. In this work, Ms. Dale reveals finding two energetic fields within the human body. The one which is most commonly referred to as ?chi? and another field. Returning now to the work of Dr. Candace Pert, in her book: ?Molecules of Emotion? she also writes about coming into contact with another field of energy? within the human body that science does not as yet understand. Awareness of this is also brought to light in several other books including ?The Heart?s Code,? written in 1998, by Dr. Paul Pearsall (now deceased). Dr. Pearsall conducted research with heart transplant patients who took on certain characteristics of those whose heart?s they were recipients of. And, here again, doctors, nurses, and others associated closely with transplant patients, reported an energy of a different kind that had not previously been encountered when interacting with people. Note: Research as reported by Joseph Chilton Pearce, reveals that most children are born with a holographic brain/mind, which then disappears by age 7 ? 10 as we progress through the current educational system. And, since teaching is directed by the present system, to the left hemisphere of the brain, we end up with a society that is 75% left-brain oriented. There is so much more here, but since this is long, will return another time with more on this. This may also be considered a draft to which changes will be incorporated as new information becomes available. m r From: Peter Challen [mailto:peterchallen at googlemail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:04 AM To: maryrose Subject: Fwd: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace Dear Mary, The feature length film herewith is a tremendous expansion of your beautiful three paragarphs sent yesterday on living as one mind in this paradise of earth. Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: One Date: 2009/2/10 Subject: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace To: "peterchallen at gmail.com" iPeace Sharing Peace - Making A Difference Error! Filename not specified. One Check out the video 'EARTHLINGS' Earthlings is a 2005 multi-award winning documentary written, produced and directed by Shaun Monson and co-produced by Persia White. Error! Filename not specified. EARTHLINGS EARTHLINGS is a feature length documentary about humanity's absolute dependence on animals (for pets, food, clothing, entertainment, and ... Video link: EARTHLINGS About iPeace iPeace is a community of PEOPLE who believe that peace isn't just a dream. Error! Filename not specified. 16678 members 22251 photos 5026 songs 3127 videos 1659 discussions 221 events 3964 blog posts To control which emails you receive on iPeace, click here Error! Filename not specified. -- SPIRITUALITY My premise is that matter is spirit in another light and that the fullest form of spirituality lies within an understanding of the ceaseless creativity of life and the insistent reality of seeking to live in an economic order - or housekeeping mode - that works for everyone and protects the earth. Tho' that is full of theological resonance, I seek to express it in forms that don't let religiosity set us apart from our fellow human beings and other life-forms. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 17:11:40 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:11:40 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Ship of Fools by Paul Craig Roberts Message-ID: <012901c98bdd$54675060$fd35f120$@net> We need to stop rearranging our deck chairs on this Titanic and Begin to find materials with which to build life boats. IMHO. m r -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:44 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Ship of Fools by Paul Craig Roberts (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Ship of Fools by Paul Craig Roberts http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ship-of-Fools-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-090209- 807.html Is there intelligent life in Washington, DC? Not a speck of it. The US economy is imploding, and Obama is being led by his government of neoconservatives and Israeli agents into a quagmire in Afghanistan that will bring the US into confrontation with Russia, and possibly China, American's largest creditor. The January payroll job figures reveal that last month 20,000 Americans lost their jobs every day. In addition, December's job losses were revised up by 53,000 jobs from 524,000 to 577,000. The revision brings the two-month job loss to 1,175,000. If this keeps up, Obama's promised three million new jobs will be wiped out by job losses. Statistician John Williams (shadowstats.com) reports that this huge number is an understatement. Williams notes that built-in biases in seasonal adjustment factors caused a 118,000 understatement of January job losses, bringing the actual January job loss to 716,000 jobs. The payroll survey counts the number of jobs, not the number of employed as some people have more than one job. The Household Survey counts the number of people who have jobs. The Household Survey shows that 832,000 people lost their jobs in January and 806,000 in December, for a two month reduction of Americans with jobs of 1,638,000. The unemployment rate reported in the US media is a fabrication. Williams reports that "during the Clinton Administration, 'discouraged workers' those who had given up looking for a job because there were no jobs to be had--were redefined so as to be counted only if they had been 'discouraged' for less than a year. This time qualification defined away the bulk of the discouraged workers. Adding them back into the total unemployed, actual unemployment, [according to the unemployment rate methodology used in 1980] rose to 18% in January, from 17.5% in December." In other words, without all the manipulations of the data from a government that lies to us every time it opens its mouth, the US unemployment rate is already at depression levels. How could it be otherwise given the enormous job loss from off-shored jobs? It is impossible for a country to create jobs when its corporations are moving production for the American consumer market offshore. When they move the production offshore, they shift US GDP to other countries. The US trade deficit over the past decade has reduced US GDP by $1.5 trillion dollars. That is a lot of jobs. Why bail out GM and Citibank when the firms are moving as many operations offshore as they possibly can? I have been reporting for years that American university graduates have had to take jobs as waitresses and bartenders. As over-indebted American consumers lose their jobs, they will visit restaurants and bars less frequently. Consequently, Americans with university degrees will not even have jobs waiting on tables and mixing drinks. US policymakers have ignored the fact that consumer demand in the 21st century has been driven, not by increases in real income, but by increased consumer indebtedness. This fact makes it pointless to try to stimulate the economy by bailing out banks so that they can lend more to consumers. The American consumers have no more capacity to borrow. With the decline in the values of their principal assets--their homes--with the destruction of half of their pension assets, and with joblessness facing them, Americans cannot and will not spend. Much of US infrastructure is in poor shape and needs renewing. However, infrastructure jobs do not produce goods and services that can be sold abroad. The massive commitment to infrastructure does nothing to help the US reduce its massive trade deficit, the financing of which is becoming a major problem. Moreover, when the infrastructure projects are completed, so are the jobs. At best, assuming Mexicans do not get most of the construction jobs, all Obama's stimulus program can do is to reduce the number of unemployed temporarily. Unless US corporations can be required to use American labor to produce the goods and services that they sell in American markets, there is no hope for the US economy. No one in the Obama administration has the wits to address this problem. Thus, the economy will continue to implode. Adding to the brewing disaster, Obama has been deceived by his military and neoconservative advisers into expanding the war in Afghanistan, a large mountainous country. Obama intends to use the draw-down of US soldiers in Iraq to send 30,000 more American troops to Afghanistan. This would bring the US forces to 60,000--600,000 fewer than US Marine Corps and US Army counterinsurgency guidelines define as the minimum number of soldiers necessary to bring success in Afghanistan--and less than half as many as the army that was unable to occupy Iraq. The Iranians had to bail out the Bush regime by restraining its Shi'ite allies and encouraging them to use the ballot box to attain power and push out the Americans. In Iraq the US troops only had to fight a small Sunni insurgency drawn from a minority of the population. Even so, the US "prevailed" by putting the insurgents on the US payroll and paying them not to fight. The withdrawal agreement was dictated by the Shi'ites. It was not what the Bush regime wanted. One would think that the experience with the "cakewalk" in Iraq would make the US hesitant to attempt to occupy Afghanistan, an undertaking that would require the US to occupy parts of Pakistan. The US was hard pressed to maintain 150,000 troops in Iraq. Where is Obama going to get another half million soldiers to add to the 150,000 to pacify Afghanistan? One answer is the rapidly growing massive US unemployment. Americans will sign up to go kill abroad rather than be homeless and hungry at home. But this solves only half of the problem. Where does the money come from to support an army in the field of 650,000, an army 4.3 times larger than US forces in Iraq, a war that has cost us $3 trillion in out-of-pocket and already incurred future costs? This money would have to be raised in addition to the $3 trillion US budget deficit that is the result of Bush's financial sector bailout, Obama's stimulus package, and the rapidly failing economy. When economies tank, as the American one is doing, tax revenues collapse. The millions of unemployed Americans are not paying Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes. The stores and businesses that are closing are not paying federal and state income taxes. Consumers with no money or credit to spend are not paying sales taxes. The Washington Morons, and morons they are, have given no thought as to how they are going to finance a fiscal year 2009 budget deficit of some two to three trillion dollars. The practically nonexistent US saving rate cannot finance it. The trade surpluses of our trading partners, such as China, Japan, and Saudi Arabia, cannot finance it. The US government really has only two possibilities for financing its budget deficit. One is a second collapse in the stock market, which would drive the surviving investors with what they have left into "safe" US Treasury bonds. The other is for the Federal Reserve to monetize the Treasury debt. Monetizing the debt means that when no one is willing or able to purchase the Treasury's bonds, the Federal Reserve buys them by creating bank deposits for the Treasury's account. In other words, the Fed "prints money" with which to buy the Treasury's bonds. Once this happens, the US dollar will cease to be the reserve currency. In addition, China, Japan and Saudi Arabia, countries that hold enormous quantities of US Treasury debt in addition to other US dollar assets, will sell, hoping to get out before others. The US dollar will become worthless, the currency of a banana republic. The US will not be able to pay for its imports, a serious problem for a country dependent on imports for its energy, manufactured goods, and advanced technology products. Obama's Keynesian advisers have learned with a vengeance Milton Friedman's lesson that the Great Depression resulted from the Federal Reserve permitting a contraction of the supply of money and credit. In the Great Depression good debts were destroyed by monetary contraction. Today bad debts are being preserved by the expansion of money and credit, and the US Treasury is jeopardizing its credit standing and the dollar's reserve currency status with enormous quarterly bond auctions as far as the eye can see. Meanwhile, the Russians, overflowing with energy and mineral resources, and not in debt, have learned that the US government is not to be trusted. Russia has watched Reagan's successors attempt to turn former constituent parts of the Soviet Union into US puppet states with US military bases. The US is trying to ring Russia with missiles that neutralize Russia's strategic deterrent. Putin has caught on to "comrade wolf." He has succeeded in having the president of Kyrgyzstan, a former part of the Soviet Union, evict the US from its military base. This base is essential to America's ability to supply its soldiers in Afghanistan. To stop America's meddling in Russia's sphere of influence, the Russian government has created a collective security treaty organization comprised of Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan. Uzbekistan is a partial participant. In other words, Russia has organized central Asia against US penetration. To whose agenda is President Obama being hitched? Writing in the English language version of the Swiss newspaper, Zeit-Fragen, Stephen J. Sniegoski reports that leading figures of the neocon conspiracy--Richard Perle, Max Boot, David Brooks, and Mona Charen--are ecstatic over Obama's appointments. They don't see any difference between Obama and Bush/Cheney. Not only are Obama's appointments moving him into an expanded war in Afghanistan, but the powerful Israel Lobby is pushing Obama toward a war with Iran. The unreality in which he US government operates is beyond belief. A bankrupt government that cannot pay its bills without printing money is rushing headlong into wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran. According to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Analysis, the cost to the US taxpayers of sending a single soldier to fight in Afghanistan or Iraq is $775,000 per year! The world has never seen such total mindlessness. Napoleon's and Hitler's march into Russia were rational acts compared to the mindless idiocy of the United States government. Obama's war in Afghanistan is the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. After seven years of conflict, there is still no defined mission or endgame scenario for US forces in Afghanistan. When asked about the mission, a US military official told NBC News, "Frankly, we don't have one." NBC reports: "they're working on it." Speaking to House Democrats on February 5, President Obama admitted that the US government does not know what its mission is in Afghanistan and that to avoid "mission creep without clear parameters," the US "needs a clear mission." How would you like to be sent to a war, the point of which no one knows, including the commander-in-chief who sent you to kill or be killed? How, fellow taxpayers, do you like paying the enormous cost of sending soldiers on an undefined mission while the economy collapses? From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 19:20:17 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:20:17 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Worldwide Droughts Cause Predictions for Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production Message-ID: <015801c98bef$4b151fd0$e13f5f70$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:42 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Monday, February 9, 2009 *****Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production***** by Eric deCarbonnel http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/02/2009-global-food-catastrophe.html After reading about the droughts in two major agricultural countries, China and Argentina, I decided to research the extent other food producing nations were also experiencing droughts. This project ended up taking a lot longer than I thought. 2009 looks to be a humanitarian disaster around much of the world To understand the depth of the food Catastrophe that faces the world this year, consider the graphic below depicting countries by USD value of their agricultural output, as of 2006. Now, consider the same graphic with the countries experiencing droughts highlighted. The countries that make up two thirds of the world?s agricultural output are experiencing drought conditions. Whether you watch a video of the drought in China, Australia, Africa, South America, or the US, the scene will be the same: misery, ruined crop, and dying cattle. China The drought in Northern China, the worst in 50 years, is worsening, and summer harvest is now threatened. The area of affected crops has expanded to 161 million mu (was 141 million last week), and 4.37 million people and 2.1 million livestock are facing drinking water shortage. The scarcity of rain in some parts of the north and central provinces is the worst in recorded history. The drought which started in November threatens over half the wheat crop in eight provinces - Hebei, Shanxi, Anhui, Jiangsu, Henan, Shandong, Shaanxi and Gansu. Henan China's largest crop producing province, Henan, has issued the highest-level drought warning. Henan has received an average rainfall of 10.5 millimeters since November 2008, almost 80 percent less than in the same period in the previous years. The Henan drought, which began in November, is the most severe since 1951. Anhui Anhui Province issued a red drought alert, with more than 60 percent of the crops north of the Huaihe River plagued by a major drought. Shanxi Shanxi Province was put on orange drought alert on Jan. 21, with one million people and 160,000 heads of livestock are facing water shortage. Jiangsu Jiangsu province has already lost over one fifth of the wheat crops affected by drought. Local agricultural departments are diverting water from nearby rivers in an emergency effort to save the rest. Hebei Over 100 million cubic meters of water has been channeled in from outside the province to fight Hebei?s drought. Shaanxi 1.34 million acres of crops across the bone-dry Shanxi province are affected by the worsening drought. Shandong Since last November, Shandong province has experienced 73 percent less rain than the same period in previous years, with little rainfall forecast for the future. Relief efforts are under way. The Chinese government has allocated 86.7 billion yuan (about $12.69 billion) to drought-hit areas. Authorities have also resorted to cloud-seeding, and some areas received a sprinkling of rain after clouds were hit with 2,392 rockets and 409 cannon shells loaded with chemicals. However, there is a limit to what can be done in the face of such widespread water shortage. As I have previously written, China is facing hyperinflation, and this record drought will make things worse. China produces 18% of the world's grain each year. Australia Australia has been experiencing an unrelenting drought since 2004, and 41 percent of Australia's agriculture continues to suffer from the worst drought in 117 years of record-keeping. The drought has been so severe that rivers stopped flowing, lakes turned toxic, and farmers abandoned their land in frustration: A) The Murray River stopped flowing at its terminal point, and its mouth has closed up. B) Australia?s lower lakes are evaporating, and they are now a meter (3.2 feet) below sea level. If these lakes evaporate any further, the soil and the mud system below the water is going to be exposed to the air. The mud will then acidify, releasing sulfuric acid and a whole range of heavy metals. After this occurs, those lower lake systems will essentially become a toxic swamp which will never be able to be recovered. The Australian government's only options to prevent this are to allow salt water in, creating a dead sea, or to pray for rain. For some reason, the debate over climate change is essentially over in Australia. The United States California California is facing its worst drought in recorded history. The drought is predicted to be the most severe in modern times, worse than those in 1977 and 1991. Thousands of acres of row crops already have been fallowed, with more to follow. The snowpack in the Northern Sierra, home to some of the state's most important reservoirs, proved to be just 49 percent of average. Water agencies throughout the state are scrambling to adopt conservation mandates. Texas The Texan drought is reaching historic proportion. Dry conditions near Austin and San Antonio have been exceeded only once before?the drought of 1917-18. 88 percent of Texas is experiencing abnormally dry conditions, and 18 percent of the state is in either extreme or exceptional drought conditions. The drought areas have been expanding almost every month. Conditions in Texas are so bad cattle are keeling over in parched pastures and dying. Lack of rainfall has left pastures barren, and cattle producers have resorted to feeding animals hay. Irreversible damage has been done to winter wheat crops in Texas. Both short and long-term forecasts don't call for much rain at all, which means the Texas drought is set to get worse. Augusta Region (Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina) The Augusta region has been suffering from a worsening two year drought. Augusta?s rainfall deficit is already approaching 2 inches so far in 2009, with January being the driest since 1989. Florida Florida has been hard hit by winter drought, damaging crops, and half of state is in some level of a drought. La Ni?a likely to make matters worse Enough water a couple of degrees cooler than normal has accumulated in the eastern part of the Pacific to create a La Ni?a, a weather pattern expected to linger until at least the spring. La Ni?a generally means dry weather for Southern states, which is exactly what the US doesn?t need right now. South America Argentina The worst drought in half a century has turned Argentina's once-fertile soil to dust and pushed the country into a state of emergency. Cow carcasses litter the prairie fields, and sun-scorched soy plants wither under the South American summer sun. Argentina's food production is set to go down a minimum of 50 percent, maybe more. The country's wheat yield for 2009 will be 8.7 million metric tons, down from 16.3 million in 2008. Concern with domestic shortages (domestic wheat consumption being approximately 6.7 million metric ton), Argentina has granted no new export applications since mid January. Brazil Brazil has cut its outlook for the crops and will do so again after assessing damage to plants from desiccation in drought-stricken regions. Brazil is the world's second-biggest exporter of soybeans and third-largest for corn. Brazil's numbers for corn harvesting: Harvested in 2008: 58.7 million tons January 8 forecast: 52.3 million tons February 6 forecast: 50.3 metric tons (optimistic) Harvested in 2009: ??? Paraguay Severe drought affecting Paraguay's economy has pushed the government to declare agricultural emergency. Crops that have direct impact on cattle food are ruined, and the soy plantations have been almost totally lost in some areas. Uruguay Uruguay declared an "agriculture emergency" last month, due to the worst drought in decades which is threatening crops, livestock and the provision of fresh produce. The a worsening drought is pushing up food and beverage costs causing Uruguay's consumer prices to rise at the fastest annual pace in more than four years in January. Bolivia There hasn?t been a drop of rain in Bolivia in nearly a year. Cattle dying, crops ruined, etc Chile The severe drought affecting Chile has caused an agricultural emergency in 50 rural districts, and large sectors of the economy are concerned about possible electricity rationing in March. The countries woes stem from the "La Ni?a" climate phenomenon which has over half of Chile dangling by a thread: persistently cold water in the Pacific ocean along with high atmospheric pressure are preventing rain-bearing fronts from entering central and southern areas of the country. As a result, the water levels at hydroelectric dams and other reservoirs are at all-time lows. Horn of Africa Africa faces food shortages and famine. Food production across the Horn of Africa has suffered because of the lack of rainfall. Also, half the agricultural soil has lost nutrients necessary to grow plant, and the declining soil fertility across Africa is exacerbating drought related crop losses. Kenya Kenya is the worst hit nation in the region, having been without rainfall for 18 months. Kenya needs to import food to bridge a shortfall and keep 10 million of its people from starvation. Kenya?s drought suffering neighbors will be of little help. Tanzania A poor harvest due to drought has prompted Tanzania to stop issuing food export permits. Tanzania has also intensified security at the border posts to monitor and prevent the export of food. There are 240,000 people in need of immediate relief food in Tanzania. Burundi Crops in the north of Burundi have withered, leaving the tiny East African country facing a severe food shortage Uganda Severe drought in northeastern Uganda's Karamoja region has the left the country on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe. The dry conditions and acute food shortages, which have left Karamoja near starvation, are unlikely to improve before October when the next harvest is due. South Africa South Africa faces a potential crop shortage after wheat farmers in the eastern part of the Free State grain belt said they were likely to produce their lowest crop in 30 years this year. South Africans are "extremely angry" that food prices continue to rise. Other African nations suffering from drought in 2009 are: Malawi, Zambia, Swaziland, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Tunisia, Angola, and Ethiopia. Middle East and Central Asia The Middle East and Central Asia are suffering from the worst droughts in recent history, and food grain production has dropped to some of the lowest levels in decades. Total wheat production in the wider drought-affected region is currently estimated to have declined by at least 22 percent in 2009. Owing to the drought's severity and region-wide scope, irrigation supplies from reservoirs, rivers, and groundwater have been critically reduced. Major reservoirs in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria are all at low levels requiring restrictions on usage. Given the severity of crop losses in the region, a major shortage of planting seed for the 2010 crop is expected. Iraq In Iraq during the winter grain growing period, there was essentially no measurable rainfall in many regions, and large swaths of rain-fed fields across northern Iraq simply went unplanted. These primarily rain-fed regions in northern Iraq are described as an agricultural disaster area this year, with wheat production falling 80-98 percent from normal levels. The USDA estimates total wheat production in Iraq in 2009 at 1.3 million tons, down 45 percent from last year. Syria Syria is experienced its worst drought in the past 18 years, and the USDA estimates total wheat production in Syria in 2009 at 2.0 million tons, down 50 percent from last year. Last summer, the taps ran dry in many neighborhoods of Damascus and residents of the capital city were forced to buy water on the black market. The severe lack of rain this winter has exacerbated the problem. Afghanistan Lack of rainfall has led Afghanistan to the worst drought conditions in the past 10 years. The USDA estimates 2008/09 wheat production in Afghanistan at 1.5 million tons, down 2.3 million or 60 percent from last year. Afghanistan normally produces 3.5-4.0 million tons of wheat annually. Jordan Jordan's persistent drought has grown worse, with almost no rain falling on the kingdom this year. The Jordanian government has stopped pumping water to farms to preserve the water for drinking purposes. Other Middle Eastern and Central Asian nations suffering from drought in 2009 are: The Palestinian Territories, Lebanon, Israel, Bangladesh, Myanmar, India, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Thailand, Nepal, Pakistan, Turkey, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Cyprus, and Iran. Lack of credit will worsen food shortage A lack of credit for farmers curbed their ability to buy seeds and fertilizers in 2008/2009 and will limit production around the world. The effects of droughts worldwide will also be amplified by the smaller amount of seeds and fertilizers used to grow crops. Low commodity prices will worsen food shortage The low prices at the end of 2008 discouraged the planting of new crops in 2009. In Kansas for example, farmers seeded nine million acres, the smallest planting for half a century. Wheat plantings this year are down about 4 million acres across the US and about 1.1 million acres in Canada. So even discounting drought related losses, the US, Canada, and other food producing nations are facing lower agricultural output in 2009. Europe will not make up for the food shortfall Europe, the only big agricultural region relatively unaffected by drought, is set for a big drop in food production. Due to the combination of a late plantings, poorer soil conditions, reduced inputs, and light rainfall, Europe?s agricultural output is likely to fall by 10 to 15 percent. Stocks of foodstuff are dangerously low Low stocks of foodstuff make the world?s falling agriculture output particularly worrisome. The combined averaged of the ending stock levels of the major trading countries of Australia, Canada, United States, and the European Union have been declining steadily in the last few years: 2002-2005: 47.4 million tons 2007: 37.6 million tons 2008: 27.4 million tons These inventory numbers are dangerously low, especially considering the horrifying possibility that China?s 60 million tons of grain reserves doesn't actually exists. Global food Catastrophe The world is heading for a drop in agricultural production of 20 to 40 percent, depending on the severity and length of the current global droughts. Food producing nations are imposing food export restrictions. Food prices will soar, and, in poor countries with food deficits, millions will starve. The deflation debate should end now The droughts plaguing the world?s biggest agricultural regions should end the debate about deflation in 2009. The demand for agricultural commodities is relatively immune to developments in the business cycles (at least compared to that of energy or base metals), and, with a 20 to 40 percent decline in world production, already rising food prices are headed significantly higher. In fact, agricultural commodities NEED to head higher and soon, to prevent even greater food shortages and famine. The price of wheat, corn, soybeans, etc must rise to a level which encourages the planting of every available acre with the best possible fertilizers. Otherwise, if food prices stay at their current levels, production will continue to fall, sentencing millions more to starvation. Competitive currency appreciation Some observers are anticipating ?competitive currency devaluations? in addition to deflation for 2009 (nations devalue their currencies to help their export sector). The coming global food shortage makes this highly unlikely. Depreciating their currency in the current environment will produce the unwanted consequence of boosting exports?of food. Even with export restrictions like those in China, currency depreciation would cause the outflow of significant quantities of grain via the black market. Instead of ?competitive currency devaluations?, spiking food prices will likely cause competitive currency appreciation in 2009. Foreign exchange reserves exist for just this type of emergency. Central banks around the world will lower domestic food prices by either directly selling off their reserves to appreciate their currencies or by using them to purchase grain on the world market. Appreciating a currency is the fastest way to control food inflation. A more valuable currency allows a nation to monopolize more global resources (ie: the overvalued dollar allows the US to consume 25% of the world's oil despite having only 4% of the world's population). If China were to selloff its US reserves, its enormous population would start sucking up the world's food supply like the US has been doing with oil. On the flip side, when a nation appreciates its currency and starts consuming more of the world?s resources, it leaves less for everyone else. So when china appreciates the yuan, food shortages worldwide will increase and prices everywhere else will jump upwards. As there is nothing that breeds social unrest like soaring food prices, nations around the world, from Russia, to the EU, to Saudi Arabia, to India, will sell off their foreign reserves to appreciate their currencies and reduce the cost of food imports. In response to this, China will sell even more of its reserves and so on. That is competitive currency appreciation. When faced with competitive currency appreciation, you do NOT want to be the world?s reserve currency. The dollar is likely to do very poorly as central banks liquidate trillions in US holdings to buy food and appreciate their currencies. pencil icon, that\ From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 19:38:09 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:38:09 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Nearly 600K jobs lost in Jan.; more pain ahead Message-ID: <016e01c98bf1$cbb425d0$631c7170$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:21 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Nearly 600K jobs lost in Jan.; more pain ahead (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Nearly 600K jobs lost in Jan.; more pain ahead http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ECONOMY?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT Feb 6, 5:12 PM EST WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation lost nearly 600,000 jobs last month, the worst showing in a third of a century, as a vicious cycle of cutbacks by consumers forced ever more layoffs by beleaguered employers. The unemployment rate catapulted to 7.6 percent, the highest in 16 years, and seems headed for double digits. Some 3.6 million jobs have disappeared so far in a deepening recession, which is shaping up as the biggest job killer in the post-World War II period and is raising pressure on President Barack Obama and Congress to agree quickly on a huge economic stimulus plan to stop the hemorrhaging. On Wall Street, investors optimistically assumed action was on the way and pushed stock prices higher. The Dow Jones industrials gained more than 217 points, and all broad stock indexes surged nearly 3 percent. Battered by the recession, employers slashed a net 598,000 jobs in January, the most since 1974, the Labor Department reported Friday. The jobless rate surged from 7.2 percent in December to 7.6 percent, and economists and government officials all agreed the toll was certain to go higher. "These numbers demand action," Obama declared, urging Congress to waste no time in completing work on the economic recovery package. "If we drag our feet and fail to act, this crisis will turn into a catastrophe. We'll continue to get devastating job reports like today's month after month, year after year." The jobs lost so far since the recession began in December 2007 are the most of any downturn in the post-war period. About half the losses occurred just in the past three months. Layoffs this month are likely to be just as bad. And job seekers' prospects aren't likely to become noticeably better until 2011 - at the earliest - when job growth should return to a more healthy pace, analysts said. Louis DiFilippo, 30, who was laid off in October from a food store in Washington, recalls seeing sales slowing. "I saw that something had to give," he remembers, "but I was hoping that it wouldn't be my position." Unable to find a new job, he's going back to school. Even if the recession were to end by fall - a best-case scenario - the economy and the job market would remain feeble for some time. Economists predict anywhere from 2 million to 3 million or more jobs will disappear this year and the unemployment rate probably will climb to 10 percent or higher by the spring of 2010. "We're talking years - not months - before we see a decent recovery in the jobs market," predicted Sung Won Sohn, economist at the Martin Smith School of Business at California State University. "It is going to get worse before it gets better." The pink slips are hitting all categories of workers - blue collar, while collar, those without high school diplomas and those with college degrees. And they're sparing few occupations or corners of the country. Vanishing jobs and evaporating wealth from sinking home values, 401(k) retirement plans and other investments have forced consumers to retrench. Those spending cutbacks have, in turn, led companies to pull back and slash jobs. As the cycle persists, the economy's problems are feeding on each other. With no replacement work to be found, the ranks of unemployed workers climbed to 11.6 million. In addition, 7.8 million people were working part time. That category includes those who would like to work full time but whose hours were cut back or those who were unable to find full-time work. The average work week in January stayed at 33.3 hours, matching the record low set in December. More than 200,000 state government employees were expected to stay home without pay Friday in California, which began its first-ever furloughs to save money. And Cessna Aircraft Co. has told remaining workers that it plans to cut the work week of some production lines to just three or four days. If part-time employees, discouraged workers and others are factored in, the unemployment rate would have been 13.9 percent in January, the highest in records going back to 1994. In other January figures: - Factories slashed 207,000 jobs. That was the largest one-month drop since October 1982, partly reflecting heavy losses at plants making autos and related parts. - Construction companies cut 111,000 jobs, professional and business services 121,000, retailers 45,000 and leisure and hospitality companies 28,000. - There were gains for education and health services, as well as in government jobs, but those were swamped by the losses elsewhere. The average time it took for an unemployed person to find any job - full or part time - rose to 19.8 weeks in January, compared with 17.5 weeks a year earlier. And the number of "long-term" unemployed - those out of work for 27 weeks or more - climbed to 2.6 million from 1.4 million a year earlier. The recession is likely to turn out to be the longest since the 1930s. The two record holders since then - downturns in the mid-1970s and early 1980s - each lasted 16 months. This recession, which would reach that milestone in April, probably won't end until September, Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com, and other analysts said. Some Americans have been hit harder than others. The unemployment rate for blacks jumped to 12.6 percent in January, a 15-year high. The rate for Hispanics climbed to 9.7 percent, the highest since 1995. "The job market is unraveling," Zandi said. "Businesses are panicked. They are fighting for survival and slashing payrolls to conserve cash, and there's no sense this is going to stop any time soon." Caterpillar Inc., Pfizer Inc., Microsoft Corp., Estee Lauder Cos., Time Warner Cable Inc., and Sprint Nextel Corp. are among the companies slicing payrolls. Manufacturers - especially car makers - construction companies and retailers have been particularly hard hit by the recession. Talbots Inc., Liz Claiborne Inc., Macy's Inc. and Home Depot Inc. are all cutting jobs. So are Detroit's General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. For all of 2008, the economy lost a net total of 2.9 million jobs, according to revised figures. That marked the biggest annual loss on record. Many economists predict the current quarter, in terms of lost economic growth, will be the worst of the recession. "Gird yourself," said Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics. "We'll be seeing some just awful numbers on the economy for the coming months." From maryrose333 at att.net Tue Feb 10 20:01:12 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:01:12 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe Message-ID: <016f01c98bf5$02fdddd0$08f99970$@net> The last four paragraphs of this news item on Obama's position is quite telling as to who he represents and must be loyal to. I have been saying for years that "we-the-people" are unrepresented and therefore have no option but to form a Civil Movement. The Blessed Unrest movement is a form of this as it is a movement of "civil unrest". However, it has no legal representation since it is not a legally-formed enterprise. IMHO, if we are to avoid a civil war with bloodshed and reduce ourselves to the level of the Israeli - Palestinian confrontation, then we must unite and obtain legal representation. But, what must be recognized as well is that this is an international movement -- it is not confined to the U.S. alone. It can have no borders and must embrace everyone regardless of race, creed, color, or country of origin, we must unite as the Human Family - we must recognize our Oneness. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:19 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/feb2009/obam-f10.shtml In first White House press conference Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe By Patrick Martin 10 February 2009 Addressing a national television audience in his first White House press conference, President Barack Obama, promoting his economic stimulus plan, used unprecedented language to characterize the deepening economic crisis. He described conditions of rapidly rising unemployment, growing demand at food banks, widespread foreclosures, the collapse of consumer spending and the failure of small businesses. He declared that his administration "inherited the most profound economic emergency since the Great Depression," and warned that the lack of a federal government intervention "could turn a crisis into a catastrophe." In response to the first question at the press conference, which suggested he was exaggerating the crisis, he observed, "This is not your ordinary, run-of-the-mill recession. We are going through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. We've lost now 3.6 million jobs. But what's perhaps even more disturbing is that almost half of that job loss has taken place over the last three months, which means that the problems are accelerating instead of getting better." Obama nowhere attempted to explain the cause of the greatest world economic disaster in three quarters of a century. When another press questioner suggested that excessive consumer spending was a cause, he responded that it was not the fault of consumers, but of "banks taking exorbitant, wild risks with other people's money, based on shaky assets." He drew no conclusions, however, from this admission-which directly contradicts his own assertion, in his January 20 inaugural address, that the American people as a whole are responsible for the financial crisis. His position could be summed up as: Capitalism has failed. Long live capitalism! Obama declared that, like the Republicans, he supports the primacy of the "private sector"-i.e., the domination of the American and world economy by profit-making corporations. But the government had to intervene to "jump-start" the profit system, he argued. "At this particular moment," Obama said in his opening remarks, "with the private sector so weakened by this recession, the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back into life. It is only government that can break the vicious cycle where lost jobs lead to people spending less money, which leads to even more layoffs." The actions proposed by the White House do nothing to address the causes of the financial collapse and little to relieve the mass suffering that Obama admitted exists in the United States. The scale of the stimulus bill, $820 billion, is dwarfed by the magnitude of the economic slump. Even if one accepts Obama's claim that the stimulus plan will create or save 4 million jobs over two years, the US economy is losing jobs at the rate of 600,000 a month-or 14 million over two years. Only hours before the press conference, the Senate took a key step towards passage of a version of Obama's stimulus plan, voting by 61 to 36 to end debate and block a Republican filibuster. Both the Senate and House versions of the bill provide a tax cut worth about $500 a year to most workers, extend unemployment and health care benefits for those laid off, and give subsidies to state governments. The Senate bill, the result of a compromise brokered by a handful of Republicans and right-wing Democrats, provides $40 billion less in federal aid to the states than the House bill and slashes nearly $20 billion in money for school construction and repair, while allocating $70 million more in tax cuts, mainly to upper-income families. Neither version covers massive state budget deficits that will result in tens of thousands of layoffs and drastic cuts in essential services. Only a tiny fraction of either bill-some $40 billion out of $820 billion-goes to direct job creation through public works programs. The rest amounts to an effort to prevent a complete collapse of consumer spending and outright state bankruptcy as the economic slump worsens. Obama made no reference to criticism of the stimulus plan as too small, instead focusing attention entirely on the opposition of congressional Republicans to any increase in federal spending to alleviate the conditions of working people. After referring to his visit earlier in the day to address a town hall meeting in Elkhart, Indiana, an industrial town where unemployment has tripled in the past year, Obama said, "If there's anyone out there who still doesn't believe this constitutes a full-blown crisis, I suggest speaking to one of the millions of Americans whose lives have been turned upside down because they don't know where their next paycheck is coming from." But nothing in Obama's program acknowledges or addresses the systemic origins of the crisis. He made passing references to the "failed policies of the past" and "tax cuts that are targeted to the wealthiest few Americans," and criticized those in Congress who opposed any stimulus package at all. But he made no proposal for any change in the structure of the financial system, and no reference to the role of private wealth accumulation in producing the disaster. He was silent on the enormous growth of social inequality-the chasm between the super-rich and the great mass of the working population, which is wider than it has ever been in America. This social gulf is both a symptom of the financial disaster and the principal obstacle to any effort to resolve it, since any serious program to address the economic emergency involves making inroads into the property interests of the billionaires. There is no doubt that the sober, even somber, tone Obama adopted in opening the press conference, and the dire picture he painted of the depth of the economic problems, owed something to his trip to Elkhart earlier in the day. There several thousand people, largely working- class, attended a town hall meeting. The questions posed to Obama from the floor expressed a bitter class hostility towards the Wall Street "fat cats" who were identified as both the cause of the crisis and the prime beneficiaries of the series of bailouts backed by both Bush and Obama. As a political representative of big business, Obama is capable of addressing working people only as victims of the financial catastrophe. He makes no appeal to the working class to take action to defend their jobs, homes and living standards. On the contrary, one of his major concerns is to warn the ruling elite that the uncontrolled growth of mass suffering will have explosive political consequences. From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 00:34:02 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:34:02 -0800 Subject: [GJM] Setting the Record Straight Once Again on Mexicans Illegally Entering the U.S. (Was: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace Message-ID: <002401c98c1b$1f8b0560$5ea11020$@net> Nance, your ignorance also appalls me. So, let me attempt to educate you which I have previously attempted, but to no avail. Have you ever heard of a Structural Adjustment Program? And do you know that there is an agency called The World Bank? Do you know that some countries are forced into applying for loans from the World Bank because their government, just like the U.S. government, is very corrupt and they rip off the people in order to make themselves wealthy instead of looking out for the people they are supposed to represent? BTW, Mexico has 18 billionaires who run the country there. And they play ball with the U.S. government. Anyway, many countries, not just Mexico, are in the same circumstances and they are forced to borrow money from the World Bank. And, then when the WB makes these loans they attach Structural Adjustments to them which in essence make these countries subservient to the United States since this is the country that runs the WB. And so the U.S. structures the programs so they benefit the elite banking system which includes the 18 billionaires of Mexico who are also in league with the drug cartels of the world. You know, Mexico has oil and is the second largest supplier of oil to the U.S. So, you would think that Mexico would be a country that has as much wealth among its people as did the U.S. at one time. But they don't, and the reason is that all the wealth of Mexico goes into the pockets of the elite bankers and the 18 billionaires of Mexico. The people get nothing. And the Structural Adjustments programs are aimed in such as way as to ensure that things stay the way they are. The people of Mexico are kept as a "low-cost" labor force for both the U.S. and the benefit of the 18 billionaires so both can accumulate monies off of the backs of these laborers. And the same is true of many countries around the world - not just Mexico. And, in the process of doing this, the lands of Mexico have been terribly degraded as the rain forests in the Southern Region particularly have been cut in order to raise beef and/or sorghum for the U.S. and European markets. In his book: "Beyond Beef," Jeremy Rifkin writes that: "Countries like Mexico are hardest hit by the newest form of neo-colonial exploitation, as more and more land is converted to pasture to graze cattle destined for the U.S. market. Mexico ships large numbers of cattle to the U.S., where they are fattened on grain in Texas feedlots and slaughtered for American consumption." "Mexican land is also devoting an increasing amount of its agricultural production to sorghum to feed cattle and other livestock. Twenty-five years ago, livestock consumed less than 6 percent of Mexico's grain. Today, at least one-third of the grain produced in the country goes to feed livestock" - mainly beef cattle. " This in a country where millions of people are chronically undernourished. . .Forced to choose between feeding people and feeding livestock, the landed aristocracy and the power elite have chosen the latter course, impoverishing millions of campesinos in the process." "While peasant agriculture can often sustain a hundred people per square mile, the average rainforest cattle ranch 'employs one person per 2,000 head of cattle and this. . . .amounts at best to about one person per 12 square miles." "Landless and desperate millions of peasants have migrated to urban areas, seeking what little employment is available." Many of them end up living on top of the garbage dumps in Tijuana or in shanty towns along the Border in places where there is no running water. Some of the women find jobs in the macquiladoras in the "Free Zone" where there are industrial plants. However, the men are passed over as their hands are not suited for today's electronics production tasks. "Millions from Southern Mexico and Central America, where they have also been forced off of their lands have taken the long trek northward along the Pan American Highway, hoping to find a better life in northern Mexico." So not all of those attempting entry into the U.S. are from Mexico. The Border along the southern part of Mexico is much the same as the Border between the U.S. and Mexico as those from Central and South America, and other places around the world. Unable to either wait or afford to enter the U.S. legally, they are nevertheless pushed northward, desperate in their search for food and work. Most do not want to leave their homeland and would prefer to stay near their families in Mexico or other places south, as Latinos are a very close family -oriented people. But there is no work for them there, and their lands upon which they use to do subsistence farming have been taken from them by the large U.S. based agribusinesses. As the crisis deepens, those who are unable to cross the Border and find work in the U.S. are increasingly forced to go into the drug trade in order to eat and feed their families. Since with only 4- 5% of the world's population, the U.S. consumes 40% of all the illegally-produced drugs in the world, it is relatively easy for someone to make a good living as a drug trafficker. Not all drug traffickers are users, some of them preferring to "take the money and run" as it is far more preferable than working in the slaughter houses along the Border where neither white nor black Americans will work. Or to taking jobs as "harvesters" sinc the work is seasonal and only lasts for a few months.. Because of what the work in the slaughterhouses does to their psyche, few workers are able to remain employed in them more than a month or so at most. And, of those who remain longer most turn to drugs in order to handle the pain associated with what they are doing. And, while you talk about "rape" and other crimes being committed by Mexicans, Nance, I dare say there are far fewer crimes committed by " illegals" than by the U.S. population at large, relatively speaking. These people cross as quietly as possible, not wanting to bring attention to themselves and risk being picked up by the Border Patrol and deported back across the Border. In order to get across safely most pay a "coyote" to guide them.. Generally family members already in the U.S. save their money in order to help other families members cross over. This is money that has been saved over a long period of time and which required much work to obtain. Those who come across legally, are in many instances, those who are involved in illegal activities and have the money available to obtain falsified documents and "pay their way" into the U.S. while authorities look the other way. The ranch on which I live is very close to the Border and while I have only been here a couple years, the family that owns it has been here for more than fifteen. Doors here are rarely, if ever, locked either by day or night and regardless of whether anyone is home. And, in all of this time, nothing has ever been taken or disturbed. Occasionally someone will come to the door and ask for water, but this is very rare. The Border Patrol is here on a daily basis, however, few illegals are ever picked up although we hear the dogs bark and know that they are in the area. That this can change as the crisis deepens and more people, both in the U.S. and in Mexico, go hungry and turn to drugs in order to make a living, is acknowledged. But, proportionately speaking, I dare say that the crime rate will be higher for White Americans as for any other race as they will be the least able to make it in hard times. The Blacks, the Latinos, the Native Americans, and the Asians are all use to living on less and without the luxury items, than are the majority of Whites. While there is an occasional fire set accidentally by illegals passing through, the largest wildfire in this area which burned 1500 homes and resulted in the deaths of several people, was set by a U.S. citizen out hunting. He lost his way and deliberately set off an incendiary device to alert others of his whereabouts. While charged with a crime he was consequently tried in court and released. Since this is the second attempt I have made to set you straight about some things that you distort, I do hope you pay attention this time, Nancy, and do not keep on perpetuating lies when you obviously know nothing about the situation. There are others who like to play these little "hate" games that only serve to stir up and promulgate trouble when there is no cause. And, while I am not saying there are never any incidents with illegals along the Border and in the U.S., what I am saying is that relatively speaking they are blown all out of proportion with regard to the overall rate of incidences. And, as I told you once before, having worked on a project in Mexico in which people from UCSD were involved, along with other U.S. government agencies, the statistics regarding costs to the U.S. for healthcare for illegals is also way overblown by the media Both the government of Mexico and the U.S., and the U.S. media, seem to get off on keeping things "on edge" between the people of these two countries while using us to serve their own ends. With love and appreciation for the good things you do. m r From: Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:36 PM To: mary rose Subject: Re: FW: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace We ALL have rules of civil living to follow and live within boundaries. Our pets are not being left wild upon our streets to multiply and out number us...allowed to live out of garbage cans to become sick and spread disease. They are not abusing us. They are mostly under control. And although they speak another language I believe if they could they would speak the language of the hand (and land) that feeds them. And they certainly do not mock, make rape or war upon us. And actually, when we think about it...the animals that are our pets are in many cases more civil and conscious than those humans abusing the rules we've put into place for security and peace. ALL intruders to the rules and who jump boundaries and who jump the line of other hopeful immigrants standing in line for months, going through the systematic process of entering the US are completely out of balance and cannot (MUST NOT!) be left to be as wild as they please ...for the peace and integrity of the rest of us. For if they INSIST upon a 'take' and not 'give' consciousness...and 'get' at the expense of others they will be captured and put into a place much like an animal shelter. None of us (anywhere) are truly free that we can afford the luxury of not respecting the people and animals we live with. That is what makes up a civil SOCIETY. Nancy On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:57 PM, mary rose wrote: Peter, thank you for sending this. I feel it unfortunate that one has to sign up for iPeace to watch the video. And, while I did sign up, I had no time to watch it. Am so engrossed right now in trying to get the FutureDawning.org website launched. What is different about this website is that it engages all of the dynamics of what it takes to bring about peace. You know peace is first of all about creating peace and love within oneself, and I believe that this movie, recommended here by Peter, intended in that direction. However, this is not just about being a vegan, although I do believe this is a very compassionate and spiritual place from which to begin. And, I certainly in no way want to downplay the importance of this since I have not as yet seen it, but have only read the reviews. ( Message truncated) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 01:12:36 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:12:36 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe Message-ID: <000001c98c20$828adaf0$87a090d0$@net> I cannot help but think back to the Civil War and how many fought to keep ownership of their slaves. Yet there were those who ran what was called the "Underground Railway" because they believed in the right of all people to live free. As I have so carefully outlined for you, Nancy, from where I sit from first- hand experience, the people who pass through here have a great deal of respect for the "space" of others. They are only tired of being hungry and oppressed in their own countries. They are only searching for a place to live in peace and at least meet the basic needs for themselves and their families. They want the kind of lives for themselves that they see Americans having as viewed on TV sets. Do you blame them? What would you do if the situation were reversed? Would you not try in every way you could to find a better life for your children. And, by the way - many of the people who come through here are women with young children. Are these the people you are afraid will slaughter you in your backyard? As I wrote earlier this year, one young woman of about 16 may have died due to heat exhaustion attempting to cross over in the heat of the summer. Her brothers with her came to door for water and asked that we call the Border Patrol so she could get to a hospital. We do not know if she survived or not - she was very far gone when the ambulance arrived. From: Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:14 PM To: mary rose Subject: Re: FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe All civil societies MUST have borders. We can be 'all one' in theory and love...but we must protect ourselves from being slaughtered in our own back yard. This is like saying we should let all the murderers out of prison and invite them to dinner in our homes. It is NOT about color...it is about learned BEHAVIOR and an unwillingness to follow rules. In families it is called, TUFF LOVE. EVERYONE must follow rules of living peacefully. We all have to STOP at stop signs and the STOP signs do not care what color we are. We all have boundaries and borders of conduct. We are not EVER allowed to INTRUDE upon each others space boundaries. Nancy On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:01 PM, mary rose wrote: The last four paragraphs of this news item on Obama's position is quite telling as to who he represents and must be loyal to. I have been saying for years that "we-the-people" are unrepresented and therefore have no option but to form a Civil Movement. The Blessed Unrest movement is a form of this as it is a movement of "civil unrest". However, it has no legal representation since it is not a legally-formed enterprise. IMHO, if we are to avoid a civil war with bloodshed and reduce ourselves to the level of the Israeli - Palestinian confrontation, then we must unite and obtain legal representation. But, what must be recognized as well is that this is an international movement -- it is not confined to the U.S. alone. It can have no borders and must embrace everyone regardless of race, creed, color, or country of origin, we must unite as the Human Family - we must recognize our Oneness. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:19 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/feb2009/obam-f10.shtml In first White House press conference Obama paints a picture of economic catastrophe By Patrick Martin 10 February 2009 Addressing a national television audience in his first White House press conference, President Barack Obama, promoting his economic stimulus plan, used unprecedented language to characterize the deepening economic crisis. He described conditions of rapidly rising unemployment, growing demand at food banks, widespread foreclosures, the collapse of consumer spending and the failure of small businesses. He declared that his administration "inherited the most profound economic emergency since the Great Depression," and warned that the lack of a federal government intervention "could turn a crisis into a catastrophe." In response to the first question at the press conference, which suggested he was exaggerating the crisis, he observed, "This is not your ordinary, run-of-the-mill recession. We are going through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. We've lost now 3.6 million jobs. But what's perhaps even more disturbing is that almost half of that job loss has taken place over the last three months, which means that the problems are accelerating instead of getting better." Obama nowhere attempted to explain the cause of the greatest world economic disaster in three quarters of a century. When another press questioner suggested that excessive consumer spending was a cause, he responded that it was not the fault of consumers, but of "banks taking exorbitant, wild risks with other people's money, based on shaky assets." He drew no conclusions, however, from this admission-which directly contradicts his own assertion, in his January 20 inaugural address, that the American people as a whole are responsible for the financial crisis. His position could be summed up as: Capitalism has failed. Long live capitalism! Obama declared that, like the Republicans, he supports the primacy of the "private sector"-i.e., the domination of the American and world economy by profit-making corporations. But the government had to intervene to "jump-start" the profit system, he argued. "At this particular moment," Obama said in his opening remarks, "with the private sector so weakened by this recession, the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back into life. It is only government that can break the vicious cycle where lost jobs lead to people spending less money, which leads to even more layoffs." The actions proposed by the White House do nothing to address the causes of the financial collapse and little to relieve the mass suffering that Obama admitted exists in the United States. The scale of the stimulus bill, $820 billion, is dwarfed by the magnitude of the economic slump. Even if one accepts Obama's claim that the stimulus plan will create or save 4 million jobs over two years, the US economy is losing jobs at the rate of 600,000 a month-or 14 million over two years. Only hours before the press conference, the Senate took a key step towards passage of a version of Obama's stimulus plan, voting by 61 to 36 to end debate and block a Republican filibuster. Both the Senate and House versions of the bill provide a tax cut worth about $500 a year to most workers, extend unemployment and health care benefits for those laid off, and give subsidies to state governments. The Senate bill, the result of a compromise brokered by a handful of Republicans and right-wing Democrats, provides $40 billion less in federal aid to the states than the House bill and slashes nearly $20 billion in money for school construction and repair, while allocating $70 million more in tax cuts, mainly to upper-income families. Neither version covers massive state budget deficits that will result in tens of thousands of layoffs and drastic cuts in essential services. Only a tiny fraction of either bill-some $40 billion out of $820 billion-goes to direct job creation through public works programs. The rest amounts to an effort to prevent a complete collapse of consumer spending and outright state bankruptcy as the economic slump worsens. Obama made no reference to criticism of the stimulus plan as too small, instead focusing attention entirely on the opposition of congressional Republicans to any increase in federal spending to alleviate the conditions of working people. After referring to his visit earlier in the day to address a town hall meeting in Elkhart, Indiana, an industrial town where unemployment has tripled in the past year, Obama said, "If there's anyone out there who still doesn't believe this constitutes a full-blown crisis, I suggest speaking to one of the millions of Americans whose lives have been turned upside down because they don't know where their next paycheck is coming from." But nothing in Obama's program acknowledges or addresses the systemic origins of the crisis. He made passing references to the "failed policies of the past" and "tax cuts that are targeted to the wealthiest few Americans," and criticized those in Congress who opposed any stimulus package at all. But he made no proposal for any change in the structure of the financial system, and no reference to the role of private wealth accumulation in producing the disaster. He was silent on the enormous growth of social inequality-the chasm between the super-rich and the great mass of the working population, which is wider than it has ever been in America. This social gulf is both a symptom of the financial disaster and the principal obstacle to any effort to resolve it, since any serious program to address the economic emergency involves making inroads into the property interests of the billionaires. There is no doubt that the sober, even somber, tone Obama adopted in opening the press conference, and the dire picture he painted of the depth of the economic problems, owed something to his trip to Elkhart earlier in the day. There several thousand people, largely working- class, attended a town hall meeting. The questions posed to Obama from the floor expressed a bitter class hostility towards the Wall Street "fat cats" who were identified as both the cause of the crisis and the prime beneficiaries of the series of bailouts backed by both Bush and Obama. As a political representative of big business, Obama is capable of addressing working people only as victims of the financial catastrophe. He makes no appeal to the working class to take action to defend their jobs, homes and living standards. On the contrary, one of his major concerns is to warn the ruling elite that the uncontrolled growth of mass suffering will have explosive political consequences. -- -- www.rejenx.com/SelectYourMembership.aspx ID 4282 - Holy Tea Cleanse www.prosperitea.com Whole Wellness Club (click upper right corner) - LIBERTY in Our Lifetime! www.PlanetaryRepublic.com www.CampaignForLiberty.com - Nancy and Earle...Planetnews 949-200-7335 land 800-889-7372 toll-free -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 01:13:28 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:43:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] =?utf-8?q?Fw=3A_=E2=80=A6NOT_TO_PUT_TOO_FINE_A_POINT_ON_IT?= =?utf-8?b?LCBCVVQuLi4u?= Message-ID: <725762.56526.qm@web94913.mail.in2.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/2/09, EcoTort Theatre wrote: From: EcoTort Theatre Subject: ?NOT TO PUT TOO FINE A POINT ON IT, BUT.... To: Date: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 4:39 AM ?NOT TO PUT TOO FINE A POINT ON IT, BUT many millions of people around the world are in PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, AND MENTAL AGONY (prozac etc), and are DIEING PAINFULLY in their efforts to repay crippling interest rates on loans of VIRTUAL money; these loan contracts are FORCING these millions of working people to commit serious CRIMES against themselves, and against humanity in general. ? ....any contract FORCING a person to commit a CRIME is a VOID, UNENFORCEABLE CONTRACT ? so, the contracts are VOID, & the money is VIRTUAL; there is NO LAWFUL FINANCIAL REASON to continue the wholesale damage and destruction of our beautiful Natural Environment. ? HOWEVER! -there are MANY VITAL, MORAL, & LAWFUL REASONS why we MUST STOP NOW! and why we must do something less boring instead? like re-creating a BEAUTIFUL PERMACULTURE FOREST GARDEN, HERE AND NOW ON OUR PLANET EARTH by using all of our splendid and amazing technologies for the benefit of Humanity as they were intended by their inventors, WITHOUT UNLAWFUL FINANCIAL CONSTRAINT! http:/www.permaculture.org Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 03:19:32 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:49:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Identify country from Barcode Message-ID: <583465.98574.qm@web94902.mail.in2.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/2/09, alam mukhtar wrote: From: alam mukhtar Subject: [RAHBAR] Re: Identify country from Barcode To: RAHBARinternational at yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 3:04 PM Vary Good information . --- On Tue, 10/2/09, Khaleel Ahamed wrote: From: Khaleel Ahamed Subject: [RAHBAR] Fw: Identify country from Barcode To: rahbarinternational at yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 10 February, 2009, 1:07 PM The whole world is scared of China made "black hearted goods"?Can you differentiate which one is made in Taiwan or China ? The first 3 digits of barcode 690.691.692 is made in CHINA . 471 is Made in Taiwan We have right to know, but the government and related departments never educate the public.?Remember the following. ? 00-13: USA & Canada 20-29: In-Store Functions 30-37: France 40-44: Germany 45: Japan (also 49) 46: Russian Federation 471: Taiwan 474: Estonia 475: Latvia 477: Lithuania 479: Sri Lanka 480: Philippines 482: Ukraine 484: Moldova 485: Armenia 486: Georgia 487: Kazakhstan 489: Hong Kong 49: Japan (JAN-13) 50: United Kingdom 520: Greece 528: Lebanon 529: Cyprus 531: Macedonia 535: Malta 539: Ireland 54: Belgium & Luxembourg 560: Portugal 569: Iceland 57: Denmark 590: Poland 594: Romania 599: Hungary 600 & 601: South Africa 609: Mauritius 611: Morocco 613: Algeria 619: Tunisia 622: Egypt 625: Jordan 626: Iran 64: Finland 690-692: China 70: Norway 729: Israel 73: Sweden 740: Guatemala 741: El Salvador 742: Honduras 743: Nicaragua 744: Costa Rica 746: Dominican Republic 750: Mexico 759: Venezuela 76: Switzerland 770: Colombia 773: Uruguay 775: Peru 777: Bolivia 779: Argentina 780: Chile 784: Paraguay 785: Peru 786: Ecuador 789: Brazil 80 - 83: Italy 84: Spain 850: Cuba 858: Slovakia 859: Czech Republic 860: Yugoslavia 869: Turkey 87: Netherlands 880: South Korea 885: Thailand 888: Singapore 890: India 893: Vietnam 899: Indonesia 90 & 91: Austria 93: Australia 94: New Zealand 955: Malaysia 977: International Standard Serial Number for Periodicals (ISSN) 978: International Standard Book Numbering (ISBN) 979: International Standard Music Number (ISMN) 980: Refund receipts 981 & 982: Common Currency Coupons 99: Coupons More and more milk products from China and Taiwan having problems.. We really have to check where the things are produced. Here is a way to differentiate Taiwan made products and China made products : by looking at first three digits of its Bar Code. If the 1st 3 digits are 690, 691 or 692 - China made If the 1st 3 digits are 471 ? Taiwan made Nowadays, China businessmen know the consumers do not prefer products "made in china", so they are using Global Recognition of BAR-CODE for China, and avoids printing " Made In China". However, you may now refer to the barcodes, if the first 3 digits are 690-692 then it is made in China? Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9605 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 11 05:26:58 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:26:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] Kucinich...Debt-Free Money, and Inflation?? Message-ID: <411004.85077.qm@web27404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ? Dear All, ? ??????? Drawing his seeming inspiration from Zarlenga Kucinich in Congress suggested that apart from interest free (ie. repayable)money for lending debt-free (ie.non-repayable) would be created by the government for many projects. He mentioned that it could be monitored to ensure that inflation could within reason be kept in check. I assume this monitoring would be based on existing Economic Indicators. This is all fine, and good as far as it goes....but no government would take a gamble on producing debt-free money unless ofcourse it was gradually created, and then transmitted to relevant bank accounts. Even then it would probably stop altogether doing this at some point because of a possible fear of runaway inflation. ? This is where TFE would come into the picture. Because it holds the key, and the psychological fix (for governments notably)necessary for the replacement of taxation with debt-free money. The fix ofcourse I am referring here to are dynanmic super-flexible electronic controls over inflation without the need ofcourse for taxes, or interest rates. Ofcourse, these should be unnecessary in TFE as it would be possible via special programing to know how much money could be successfully created, and transmitted into the economy . ? It is also important to understand that banks irrespective of whether they are private, or state controlled, or whatever would also be able to create new non-repayable money and NOT just the government. ? ? http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Transfinancial_Economics ? Robert Searle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 05:21:58 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:51:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] ***SPAM*** GOD'S PHARMACY...... Message-ID: <321960.32956.qm@web94913.mail.in2.yahoo.com> May be ,this is considered for a change...Darwin and others who thought everything just evolved without a design were not correct in appreciating the signs of the Creator. ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Wed, 11/2/09, Humanist wrote: From: Humanist Subject: [HasanShabbir:7906] GOD'S PHARMACY............... To: "Hasan Shabbir" Date: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 5:35 PM Y K < > wrote: God left us a great clue as to what foods help what part of our body! ? God's Pharmacy! Amazing! A sliced Carrot looks like the human eye. The pupil, iris and radiating lines look just like the human eye... and YES, science now shows carrots greatly enhance blood flow to and function of the eyes. A Tomato has four chambers and is red. The heart has four chambers and is red. All of the research shows tomatoes are loaded with lycopine and are indeed pure heart and blood food. Grapes hang in a cluster that has the shape of the heart. Each grape looks like a blood cell and all of the research today shows grapes are also profound heart and blood vitalizing food. A Walnut looks like a little brain, a left and right hemisphere, upper cerebrums and lower cerebellums. ?Even the wrinkles or folds on the nut are just like the neo-cortex. We now know walnuts help develop more than three (3) dozen neuron-transmitters for brain function. Kidney Beans actually heal and help maintain kidney function and yes, they look exactly like the human kidneys. Celery, Bok Choy, Rhubarb and many more look just like bones. These foods specifically target bone strength. Bones are 23% sodium and these foods are 23% sodium. If you don't have enough sodium in your diet, the body pulls it from the bones, thus making them weak. These foods replenish the skeletal needs of the body. Avocadoes, Eggplant and Pears target the health and function of the womb and cervix of the female - they look just like these organs. Today's research shows that when a woman eats one avocado a week, it balances hormones, sheds unwanted birth weight, and prevents cervical cancers. And how profound is this? ?It takes exactly nine (9) months to grow an avocado from blossom to ripened fruit. There are over 14,000 photolytic chemical constituents of nutrition in each one of these foods (modern science has only studied and named about 141 of them). Figs are full of seeds and hang in twos when they grow. Figs increase the mobility of male sperm and increase the numbers of Sperm as well to overcome male sterility. Sweet Potatoes look like the pancreas and actually balance the glycemic index of diabetics. Olives assist the health and function of the ovaries Oranges, Grapefruits, and other Citrus fruits look just like the mammary glands of the female and actually assist the health of the breasts and the movement of lymph in and out of the breasts. Onions look like the body's cells. Today's research shows onions help clear waste materials from all of the body cells. They even produce tears which wash the epithelial layers of the eyes. A working companion, Garlic, also helps eliminate waste materials and dangerous free radicals from the body. -- |-| /\ $ /\ ?|\| IT Professional, Human Scientist +92 - 321 5393145 http://www.AestheticTech.net --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ _-_-_- Disclaimer: __ Any ideas contained in this email remain the intellectual property of ? http://www.HasanShabbir.com - 2008 To post to this 21500+ members' group, send email To: hasanshabbir at googlegroups.com Cc: hasanshabbir1 at gmail.com if you have received this email by error or you are not the intended recipient then please inform us and we will ensure the problem is rectified. You are free to join and leave this group any time. If you are not intended recipient and you want to unsubscribe from this group, just send email To: hasanshabbir+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com And you will not be getting any messages from the group. For more options, visit the group at [http://groups.google.com/group/hasanshabbir] and [http://www.hasanshabbir.com] : Waiting for your kind replies, ideas and comments: [HasanShabbir1 at Gmail.com] [Call: 0092 300 5110484] [If someone else want to join, just drop me a single email] God Bless You. Keep Smiling:-) .. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2254 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5510 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4797 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1940 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4722 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2992 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2252 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4876 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4862 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3700 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3418 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2254 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5510 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4797 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1940 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4722 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2992 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2252 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4876 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4862 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3700 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3418 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 13:15:22 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:15:22 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Setting the Record Straight Once Again on Mexicans Illegally Entering the U.S. (Was: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace Message-ID: <005e01c98c85$7b1b5e60$71521b20$@net> Dave, your comments below are much appreciated. One of my very best friends with whom I was a roommate for over almost 15 years is a Mexican man. His father was a Congressman there for many years. So, I am very much aware of the games that are played with people's lives so the elite can make a buck. And it is heart-breaking to me to see how both Americans and Mexicans are co-opted into being part of this hate game. Of great concern is that with the number of hungry people and the amount of drugs involved, it would only take one incident of armed conflict here at the Border to set off a domino-effect that could result in the government of the U.S. having to declare martial law to maintain some semblance of order. With The economic crisis, things are at an incendiary point everywhere. We need "Border Dialogue" that involves people from both sides so that all are aware of what is really going on. Communication helps everyone to maintain their cool and set up a vibrant and loving coherence pattern. But as I write this the thought that meditation groups on both sides could bring this about as well. With love and appreciation for all you do, Dave. m r -----Original Message----- From: Dave Ewoldt [mailto:dave at reststop.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:58 AM To: mary rose Subject: Re: Setting the Record Straight Once Again on Mexicans Illegally Entering the U.S. (Was: Check out "EARTHLINGS" on iPeace On 10 Feb 2009 at 23:34, mary rose wrote: > Nance, your ignorance also appalls me. So, let me attempt to educate you > which I have previously attempted, but to no avail. > > Have you ever heard of a Structural Adjustment Program? And do you know > that there is an agency called The World Bank? Do you know that some > > "Landless and desperate millions of peasants have migrated to urban areas, > seeking what little employment is available." Many of them end up living on top > > As the crisis deepens, those who are unable to cross the Border and find > work in the U.S. are increasingly forced to go into the drug trade in order to > > And, while you talk about "rape" and other crimes being committed by > Mexicans, Nance, I dare say there are far fewer crimes committed by " > illegals" than by the U.S. population at large, relatively speaking. These Well put, Mary Rose. It still always amazes me how difficult it is to get people to face up to some very simple truths regarding numerous untenable situations we've forced other peoples around the world into in order to prop up Western lifestyles of affluence and entitlement. For the Earth... _dave_(this entire message is composed of recycled electrons) Natural Systems Solutions http://www.attractionretreat.org/NSS http://naturalsystems.blogspot.com Sustainable lifestyles, organizations, and communities From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 19:27:33 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:27:33 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Capitalism's Self-inflicted Apocalypse Message-ID: <000701c98cb9$7dbf0980$793d1c80$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:14 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Capitalism's Self-inflicted Apocalypse (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Capitalism's Self-inflicted Apocalypse http://www.countercurrents.org/parenti110209.htm By Michael Parenti 11 February, 2009 After the overthrow of communist governments in Eastern Europe, capitalism was paraded as the indomitable system that brings prosperity and democracy, the system that would prevail unto the end of history. The present economic crisis, however, has convinced even some prominent free-marketeers that something is gravely amiss. Truth be told, capitalism has yet to come to terms with several historical forces that cause it endless trouble: democracy, prosperity, and capitalism itself, the very entities that capitalist rulers claim to be fostering. Plutocracy vs. Democracy Let us consider democracy first. In the United States we hear that capitalism is wedded to democracy, hence the phrase, "capitalist democracies." In fact, throughout our history there has been a largely antagonistic relationship between democracy and capital concentration. Some eighty years ago Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis commented, "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Moneyed interests have been opponents not proponents of democracy. The Constitution itself was fashioned by affluent gentlemen who gathered in Philadelphia in 1787 to repeatedly warn of the baneful and dangerous leveling effects of democracy. The document they cobbled together was far from democratic, being shackled with checks, vetoes, and requirements for artificial super majorities, a system designed to blunt the impact of popular demands. In the early days of the Republic the rich and well-born imposed property qualifications for voting and officeholding. They opposed the direct election of candidates (note, their Electoral College is still with us). And for decades they resisted extending the franchise to less favored groups such as propertyless working men, immigrants, racial minorities, and women. Today conservative forces continue to reject more equitable electoral features such as proportional representation, instant runoff, and publicly funded campaigns. They continue to create barriers to voting, be it through overly severe registration requirements, voter roll purges, inadequate polling accommodations, and electronic voting machines that consistently "malfunction" to the benefit of the more conservative candidates. At times ruling interests have suppressed radical publications and public protests, resorting to police raids, arrests, and jailings-applied most recently with full force against demonstrators in St. Paul, Minnesota, during the 2008 Republican National Convention. The conservative plutocracy also seeks to rollback democracy's social gains, such as public education, affordable housing, health care, collective bargaining, a living wage, safe work conditions, a non-toxic sustainable environment; the right to privacy, the separation of church and state, freedom from compulsory pregnancy, and the right to marry any consenting adult of one's own choosing. About a century ago, US labor leader Eugene Victor Debs was thrown into jail during a strike. Sitting in his cell he could not escape the conclusion that in disputes between two private interests, capital and labor, the state was not a neutral arbiter. The force of the state--with its police, militia, courts, and laws-was unequivocally on the side of the company bosses. From this, Debs concluded that capitalism was not just an economic system but an entire social order, one that rigged the rules of democracy to favor the moneybags. Capitalist rulers continue to pose as the progenitors of democracy even as they subvert it, not only at home but throughout Latin America, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. Any nation that is not "investor friendly," that attempts to use its land, labor, capital, natural resources, and markets in a self-developing manner, outside the dominion of transnational corporate hegemony, runs the risk of being demonized and targeted as "a threat to U.S. national security." Democracy becomes a problem for corporate America not when it fails to work but when it works too well, helping the populace move toward a more equitable and livable social order, narrowing the gap, however modestly, between the superrich and the rest of us. So democracy must be diluted and subverted, smothered with disinformation, media puffery, and mountains of campaign costs; with rigged electoral contests and partially disfranchised publics, bringing faux victories to more or less politically safe major-party candidates. Capitalism vs. Prosperity The corporate capitalists no more encourage prosperity than do they propagate democracy. Most of the world is capitalist, and most of the world is neither prosperous nor particularly democratic. One need only think of capitalist Nigeria, capitalist Indonesia, capitalist Thailand, capitalist Haiti, capitalist Colombia, capitalist Pakistan, capitalist South Africa, capitalist Latvia, and various other members of the Free World--more accurately, the Free Market World. A prosperous, politically literate populace with high expectations about its standard of living and a keen sense of entitlement, pushing for continually better social conditions, is not the plutocracy's notion of an ideal workforce and a properly pliant polity. Corporate investors prefer poor populations. The poorer you are, the harder you will work-for less. The poorer you are, the less equipped you are to defend yourself against the abuses of wealth. In the corporate world of "free-trade," the number of billionaires is increasing faster than ever while the number of people living in poverty is growing at a faster rate than the world's population. Poverty spreads as wealth accumulates. Consider the United States. In the last eight years alone, while vast fortunes accrued at record rates, an additional six million Americans sank below the poverty level; median family income declined by over $2,000; consumer debt more than doubled; over seven million Americans lost their health insurance, and more than four million lost their pensions; meanwhile homelessness increased and housing foreclosures reached pandemic levels. It is only in countries where capitalism has been reined in to some degree by social democracy that the populace has been able to secure a measure of prosperity; northern European nations such as Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark come to mind. But even in these social democracies popular gains are always at risk of being rolled back. It is ironic to credit capitalism with the genius of economic prosperity when most attempts at material betterment have been vehemently and sometimes violently resisted by the capitalist class. The history of labor struggle provides endless illustration of this. To the extent that life is bearable under the present U.S. economic order, it is because millions of people have waged bitter class struggles to advance their living standards and their rights as citizens, bringing some measure of humanity to an otherwise heartless politico-economic order. A Self-devouring Beast The capitalist state has two roles long recognized by political thinkers. First, like any state it must provide services that cannot be reliably developed through private means, such as public safety and orderly traffic. Second, the capitalist state protects the haves from the have-nots, securing the process of capital accumulation to benefit the moneyed interests, while heavily circumscribing the demands of the working populace, as Debs observed from his jail cell. There is a third function of the capitalist state seldom mentioned. It consists of preventing the capitalist system from devouring itself. Consider the core contradiction Karl Marx pointed to: the tendency toward overproduction and market crisis. An economy dedicated to speedups and wage cuts, to making workers produce more and more for less and less, is always in danger of a crash. To maximize profits, wages must be kept down. But someone has to buy the goods and services being produced. For that, wages must be kept up. There is a chronic tendency-as we are seeing today-toward overproduction of private sector goods and services and underconsumption of necessities by the working populace. In addition, there is the frequently overlooked self-destruction created by the moneyed players themselves. If left completely unsupervised, the more active command component of the financial system begins to devour less organized sources of wealth. Instead of trying to make money by the arduous task of producing and marketing goods and services, the marauders tap directly into the money streams of the economy itself. During the 1990s we witnessed the collapse of an entire economy in Argentina when unchecked free marketeers stripped enterprises, pocketed vast sums, and left the country's productive capacity in shambles. The Argentine state, gorged on a heavy diet of free-market ideology, faltered in its function of saving capitalism from the capitalists. Some years later, in the United States, came the multi-billion-dollar plunder perpetrated by corporate conspirators at Enron, WorldCom, Harkin, Adelphia, and a dozen other major companies. Inside players like Ken Lay turned successful corporate enterprises into sheer wreckage, wiping out the jobs and life savings of thousands of employees in order to pocket billions. These thieves were caught and convicted. Does that not show capitalism's self-correcting capacity? Not really. The prosecution of such malfeasance- in any case coming too late-was a product of democracy's accountability and transparency, not capitalism's. Of itself the free market is an amoral system, with no strictures save caveat emptor. In the meltdown of 2008-09 the mounting financial surplus created a problem for the moneyed class: there were not enough opportunities to invest. With more money than they knew what to do with, big investors poured immense sums into nonexistent housing markets and other dodgy ventures, a legerdemain of hedge funds, derivatives, high leveraging, credit default swaps, predatory lending, and whatever else. Among the victims were other capitalists, small investors, and the many workers who lost billions of dollars in savings and pensions. Perhaps the premiere brigand was Bernard Madoff. Described as "a longstanding leader in the financial services industry," Madoff ran a fraudulent fund that raked in $50 billion from wealthy investors, paying them back "with money that wasn't there," as he himself put it. The plutocracy devours its own children. In the midst of the meltdown, at an October 2008 congressional hearing, former chair of the Federal Reserve and orthodox free-market devotee Alan Greenspan confessed that he had been mistaken to expect moneyed interests--groaning under an immense accumulation of capital that needs to be invested somewhere--to suddenly exercise self-restraint. The classic laissez-faire theory is even more preposterous than Greenspan made it. In fact, the theory claims that everyone should pursue their own selfish interests without restraint. This unbridled competition supposedly will produce maximum benefits for all because the free market is governed by a miraculously benign "invisible hand" that optimizes collective outputs. ("Greed is good.") Is the crisis of 2008-09 caused by a chronic tendency toward overproduction and hyper-financial accumulation, as Marx would have it? Or is it the outcome of the personal avarice of people like Bernard Madoff? In other words, is the problem systemic or individual? In fact, the two are not mutually exclusive. Capitalism breeds the venal perpetrators, and rewards the most unscrupulous among them. The crimes and crises are not irrational departures from a rational system, but the converse: they are the rational outcomes of a basically irrational and amoral system. Worse still, the ensuing multi-billion dollar government bailouts are themselves being turned into an opportunity for pillage. Not only does the state fail to regulate, it becomes itself a source of plunder, pulling vast sums from the federal money machine, leaving the taxpayers to bleed. Those who scold us for "running to the government for a handout" are themselves running to the government for a handout. Corporate America has always enjoyed grants-in-aid, loan guarantees, and other state and federal subventions. But the 2008-09 "rescue operation" offered a record feed at the public trough. More than $350 billion was dished out by a right-wing lame-duck Secretary of the Treasury to the biggest banks and financial houses without oversight--not to mention the more than $4 trillion that has come from the Federal Reserve. Most of the banks, including JPMorgan Chase and Bank of New York Mellon, stated that they had no intention of letting anyone know where the money was going. The big bankers used some of the bailout, we do know, to buy up smaller banks and prop up banks overseas. CEOs and other top banking executives are spending bailout funds on fabulous bonuses and lavish corporate spa retreats. Meanwhile, big bailout beneficiaries like Citigroup and Bank of America laid off tens of thousands of employees, inviting the question: why were they given all that money in the first place? While hundreds of billions were being doled out to the very people who had caused the catastrophe, the housing market continued to wilt, credit remained paralyzed, unemployment worsened, and consumer spending sank to record lows. In sum, free-market corporate capitalism is by its nature a disaster waiting to happen. Its essence is the transformation of living nature into mountains of commodities and commodities into heaps of dead capital. When left entirely to its own devices, capitalism foists its diseconomies and toxicity upon the general public and upon the natural environment--and eventually begins to devour itself. The immense inequality in economic power that exists in our capitalist society translates into a formidable inequality of political power, which makes it all the more difficult to impose democratic regulations. If the paladins of Corporate America want to know what really threatens "our way of life," it is their way of life, their boundless way of pilfering their own system, destroying the very foundation on which they stand, the very community on which they so lavishly feed. Michael Parenti received his Ph.D. in political science from Yale University. He has taught at a number of colleges and universities, in the United States and abroad. He is the author of twenty books: Please visit his website http://michaelparenti.org From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 20:12:21 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:12:21 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] An Interview with Albert Bates Message-ID: <001801c98cbf$bbc76960$33563c20$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:06 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] An Interview with Albert Bates (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) An Interview with Albert Bates Jan 14th, 2009 | By Aaron Newton | Category: Featured Articles | ShareThis http://henandharvest.com/?p=186 The following is an interview with Albert Bates conducted as part of the process of writing A Nation of Farmers, by Sharon Astyk and Aaron Newton which is available for pre-order now and will be published in March of 2009 by New Society Publishers. An edited version of this interview appears in the book. Albert Bates's latest book is The Post-Petroleum Survival Guide and Cookbook: Recipes for Changing Times. Bates is described as: albert-bates2an influential figure in the intentional community and ecovillage movements. A lawyer, author and teacher, he has been director of the Institute for Appropriate Technology since 1984 and of the Ecovillage Training Center at The Farm in Summertown, Tennessee since 1994. Bates has been a resident of The Farm since 1972. A former attorney, he argued environmental and civil rights cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and drafted a number of legislative Acts during a 26-year legal career. The holder of a number of design patents, Bates invented the concentrating photovoltaic arrays and solar-powered automobile displayed at the 1982 World's Fair. He served on the steering committee of Plenty International for 18 years, focussing on relief and development work with indigenous peoples, human rights and the environment. An emergency medical technician (EMT), he was a founding member of The Farm Ambulance Service. He was also a licensed Amateur Radio operator. More on Albert Bates. Albert Bates Spring 2008 A Nation of Farmers: I wanted to start by asking about something I've heard you say in other interviews.A lot of other people, even some of the cheery folks, tend to talk about peak oil specifically in really gloomy, sad terms.You tend to talk about it as a potentially positive development for humankind, and I wondered if you could talk about why. Albert Bates: There are a few reasons behind that I think everybody at some point has to go through the process of having the realization.That may come as kind of a rude awakening, or it may come as "Aha, I told you so!", but at some point everybody goes through it. It tends to deepen as time goes on, and people have their own periods of weeping and gnashing the teeth, but then you have to cope, you have to get up and do something about it. I think the more important thing is to have an attitude that something can still be done. You can't exclude the possibility that the future is still malleable, that there is still an opportunity for positive change if we exert our capacity or our abilities to do that. I think it's important to paint a positive vision for the future to galvanize the kinds of changes that people are capable of, rather than to focus on the various dystopias, which is all too common in peak oil literature. We're going to have to talk about energy and energy descent, and that's ultimately about energy ascent - which is to say re-energizing. Re-energizing communities and culture, re-energizing the way we go through our lives so that we're much more of our human selves, so that the separation that we've lost with nature is repaired. And that's the key to realistically embracing the possibilities of our situation rather than being overwhelmed by the kinds of challenges that our situation presents us with. That's part of it. And then the other piece of it, this whole idea of neurological evolution and the way that the human brain works and hormones and things like that. One of the kinds of things that we're investigating in recent years has been the feedback mechanisms, the chemical stimulators within the brain. What we're learning, slowly, over a long period of time now, is that people who have a pessimistic outlook tend to close off parts of their brain that would normally function to provide alternatives, lots of ideas. And people who have optimistic attitudes tend to produce the kinds of body chemicals that stimulate the creative centers in the brain and produce the kinds of ideas that might actually provide solutions for some of the problems that are confronting us. So what we tend to do by being pessimistic is create a self-fulfilling prophecy that we cannot get out because we're stuck. If we actually have an optimistic outlook, even though it's unrealistic, it has a better chance in the long term of succeeding than even a very cautious attitude. ANOF: It's reinforced even by biology and chemistry! That's very interesting. Well, you certainly have a positive vision for the future and you're working towards it. Your most recent book, The Post-Petroleum Survival Guide and Cookbook: Recipes for Changing Times, talks about preparing for a transition to a new way of being, to a new way of living. Could you talk in broad terms about what that transition itself might look like? I think some people have the expectation that we're going to flip a switch and things are going to be post-carbon. AB: Yeah, it's not actually going to go that easily. I think that's kind of wishful thinking, and I think the key theme that I'm harping on these days when I go out and talk or lecture or give permaculture courses or speak to groups of students is that what we need more of is resilience. That's essentially the quality of defense in depth that allows a community to provide for most of its essential needs: food, energy, water, raw materials, from multiple sources, most of them local. So that in the event of large-scale system failures, collapse is averted because there's smaller-scale, local community resilience, and that has the wherewithal to fend for itself. Getting to that, that idea of resilience, actually means traveling back on a development path that we had previously gone the opposite direction on. In a sense it's kind of a reversal, but at the same time, it's something that we are familiar with, that we know how to do, because we've been there before. We actually have a lot of things that we've developed in the last century of high-tech, fossil-fueled, civilized progress, and we can apply many of those same kinds of things to this new paradigm of living locally and having multiple resilient systems. To give you an example, the bicycle. The bicycle has advanced hugely in the last 20 years and even more in the last 50 years. If you look at that kind of progress and you say, ok, apply that now to getting to the post office to pick up the mail, or the postman delivering the mail, or the cop on the beat instead of going around in a cruiser being on a bicycle. That kind of thing is actually more doable now than it would have been back when everyone had a single gear clunker that weighed a quarter of their own body weight. At the same time, I don't want to completely throw out those heavy-duty steel frame models. Arguably they won the Vietnamese their independence. They were the workhorses that carried artillery shells up the mountains to Dien Bien Phu and ran supplies down the Ho Chi Minh trail through all the B-52 craters. ANOF: Are you at all concerned about the loss of knowledge concerning low-tech technologies that could come into play? I'm thinking here everything from pottery making to just even basic food production and farming skills, because we haven't been doing that. AB: No, I'm not in the least, and I'll tell you why. I've had the benefit of having had a forty-year experience with that which many other people don't have. And so I have a certain level of confidence and ease that many people who have not had that forty-year experience may not.Let me break that down for you with some history. The Farm started here in Tennessee in 1971. It came out of an exodus, a hippy exodus from the cities - San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury, New York's East Village, and so forth, and arrived here at this cattle farm in the middle of the forest where land was 70 dollars an acre. And for hippys, that was less than the cost of a kilo at that time, to get an acre of land, you know? We didn't understand at that point, myself included, why it was so cheap, and I'm including myself even though I didn't actually get here until 1972 when I shelved my law career in favor of retiring young and came out to the country. The reason that the land was 70 dollars an acre was that it had no soil. It was essentially a clear-cut in an oak forest, made a century earlier, and it had actually been clear-cut several times by the 1950s and turned into a cattle ranch which pounded the ground in an area with 50 inches of rain in winter and dry dusty summers, to the point where there wasn't any soil left, just chalky clay and gravel. Our first objective, our necessity for the first couple of years here, was simply to make soil. We got horses from the Amish. I was somebody who grew up in Connecticut and my high school sport was equestrian arts like dressage and stadium jumping and that sort of thing. And so I was enlisted by the horse crew to work behind draft horses in the field, and to teach others how to work with horses and care for them properly. There was a certain amount of carryover there, I mean a horse has certain kinds of needs that I knew how to fill, but I had to learn other skills that you don't get when you work a yearling on a lunge line. I had to learn that gee and haw turn them right and left. I had to learn how to work with old-fashioned harness and double-tree hitches. I had to learn how to make canvas collars because we were vegetarians and actually pretty serious hard-core vegans, and we didn't believe in using leather at all. So we replaced everything we had that was leather with something that was not leather, mostly riveted canvas and nylon.We had to re-make all of the harness and tack. So I learned how to do that. My friend Eli Gifford went off to Maryland to learn to be a ferrier so he could come back and make horseshoes. And we learned how to make crops with draft horses, and in three years time we took a bunch of art majors and English majors and by 1974 we were nearly food self-sufficient. We grew pretty much everything we needed to feed 800 to 1000 people, the exceptions being things like rice and fruit, which we also would have gotten around to eventually. Fruit takes a while, but we had probably 20 acres planted in fruit trees and bushes. We had to go out and buy toilet paper , matches, light bulbs, salt and things like that. But by 1976 we had a hundred-man farming crew here at the farm. We had a cash crop of sorghum that we made into molasses for our sweetener. We had a canning factory that could turn out a thousand gallons of ketchup in a night. We had a walk-in solar dryer for herbs and sliced vegetables. I gradually moved off the horse crew and onto the flour mill crew, and worked with a five-man team re-learning the skills of making wheat flour and buckwheat flour and cornmeal and grits and groats and horse feed and peanut butter and coffee from soybeans and things like that. We went out and salvaged old milling equipment, old flour mill equipment from places that had been abandoned for years, and took all that small-scale, intermediate scale kind of stuff and brought them back to The Farm and built elevated buildings that functioned like giant machines. It was village-scale stuff that nobody used anymore. And we put it back to work. Like I say, we had about 300 acres under till in Tennessee. We had some people come to join The Farm who had lived in Florida. They had some land in southern Florida, and so we used their place to stay and we rented land near there to grow food in the winter. We had some folks who joined The Farm from Michigan and they had a nice apple orchard, so we sent a few hundred people up there and farmed that, too, and had the apples to bring down to Tennessee. We dried some of that fruit and made fruit leather at another satellite farm near Denver. By the early 1980s, a network of more than 20 such places had formed and were coordinated from our base in Tennessee, using ham radio. Gradually, over the course of a decade or so, we re-learned all those skills. They're not so far away. People in other parts of the world still have them. Our Amish neighbors never lost them. And so it's not so difficult to do as you might think. ANOF: It seems to me that when we're talking about food production, today we're facing two simultaneous problems. The first being that fossil fuel energy used to produce food is becoming less available and so it's more economically expensive. But also using that fossil fuel energy to grow food is more ecologically expensive. Is food the intersection of these issues? Could it be the catalyst for a greater social change? By that I mean, peak oil and climate change the flip sides of the same coin. And so I'm wondering, because so much petroleum is necessary to continue industrial agriculture, and because burning that petroleum and the other fossil fuels used in agriculture are warming the planet causing our climate to change, because both of those are coming to bear on the same issue, that is, how we eat, could food be the issue that really puts peak oil and climate change on the map? AB: I think that's entirely possible. It's hard to say exactly what's going to put it over the top. There are 37 countries right now that are in serious food shortfall, and that's why you're getting riots in Haiti, Egypt and Mexico, in some places banging pots in the street and in others people actually dying in riots. They're protesting in a lot of different places - they're protesting in France, they're protesting in many parts of the world, Africa and so forth. It's true, that's definitely coming to the fore. I'm not certain everyone makes the connection yet, however, between the shortage of food and the energy and climate crises. We've got essentially four converging factors on the food supply. The first is the high cost of petroleum products, and that includes the fertilizers and chemicals, the fuel for the tractors and the combines, and the storage costs, the transportation, the drying of the grain and so on and forth. All of that is bearing on the costs of the food and making it much more expensive. We're watching in the US the average market basket increase in price about 30 percent a year, just the same as the rise in the price of crude oil. Now we're seeing the second shoe fall, which is the competition over land created by alternatives to fossil fuels, specifically biofuels.You see a lot of places that are starting to switch over their corn production or their soybean production or some other things to biofuels, and that's putting more price pressure on food. A lot of that corn and soy production was not for food anyway, but that is another story. The third thing is you have the whole world moving towards the American or European food standard. I have to say the US food standard, because even the Germans eat only a third of the meat in an average day that US citizens do. And so we are losing the caloric efficiency of eating lower on the food chain. Every time you move up the food chain a notch and eat something that ate something else, you're losing about ten times the caloric efficiency. The typical chicken might cost you 30 calories for every 10 calories that you're actually able to achieve from the protein value of the food that the chicken ate. I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be, but you get the picture. Essentially what's happening is we're moving into a meat-eating culture worldwide, and because that requires a huge amount of grain, a huge amount of land and so forth, it's putting pressure on food prices. Also, we're running out of food. We've got oceans that are running out of fish now. They're starting to catch tuna in the Gulf of Mexico that are really just fry because they cannot meet world demand by what is left in the Atlantic. If you catch one of those Blue Fin Tuna that are as big as the ones that we had 10 years ago, you'd get 275,000 dollars for one fish! So what they're doing, to satisfy the new Chinese craving for sushi is they're going and catching the fry, and that means of course that there won't be any of those big tuna anymore. That's a world population issue, and a dietary fashion issue, that's coming to bear on the food supply. And then the final issue is the climate change issue, which is essentially saying that you're not going to be able to grow food in places that you're accustomed to growing food, because of the change in climate. We've had two revisions of the USDA planting chart here Tennessee while I've lived here, because they keep having to move the isotherms northward to reflect the change of seasons because of global warming. ANOF: Not to mention then chaos caused by the late freezes and the early frosts, and the heavy rains in some places. AB: Yeah, not to mention all the pests that can survive that didn't used to be able to survive and are now invasive. That is also another function of the fossil fuel era, which is moving those sorts of things all over the world and finding them new niches in which they have no predators or in which their favored food supply lacks resistance. ANOF: You talked about The Farm and the evolution of food production at your community. Could you talk about cooking as an important building block of the community? I'm thinking here of the technologies and the skills that it takes, but also the sharing and the communal aspect of eating and cooking together. AB: When I first came here, I arrived on a cold November day. I had just walked the Appalachian Trail from north to south, and I had been on the Trail for 103 days and had been making my own meals, cooking for myself every day. I came in here and they had turned an old line shack that had been a cattle feed storage building into the community kitchen. There wasn't enough room inside to seat anybody, but they had enough room in there for a few stoves, a bread oven, prep tables, dish washing sinks and so on. People who lived on The Farm in those days lived mostly in busses and tents and things. We hadn't had time or money to build buildings yet. So we would take turns; each tent would take a rotation in staffing the kitchen. We would create these huge meals for 300, 400, 500 people in long lines - tables outside and people sitting on the ground - and we would cook. In those early days we didn't have the advantage of giant pressure cookers, so there would be a bean watch that would go overnight for the next day's soybeans. It takes eight or ten hours cooking soybeans to denature the trypsin inhibitor in soybeans to make them edible, unless you are a ruminant with multiple stomachs and can chew cud. In a pressure cooker you can do that in 45 minutes to an hour and a half. Without that you have to watch the pot for eight, ten hours. So we were taking turns, on rotation, doing that sort of thing. We had a chore wheel. Pancake breakfasts would go on for hours, if we tried to feed 500 people a pancake breakfast. So we learned how to do these kinds of things, but here's the interesting thing about all that. If you look back in American history, you can see that there's been a lot of communal experiments over the years, a lot of weird strange cults and stuff that came over from various different countries and settled in North America, and a lot of those didn't survive. Most of them didn't survive, and several of them had fairly serious death tolls the first few years. We survived, we made it. And part of the reason we made it was we were able to feed everybody from soybeans. Soy was our miracle plant. It was the wonder bean of China, and for 2,000 years people in Asia had been developing a marvelous cuisine. The Indonesians had developed tempeh, the Javanese had developed ontjom, the Malasians yuba, the Japanese natto and sufu, and the Chinese had tofu, soy milk, and yogurt and things like that. We just kept pushing that envelope and taking that into the hippy realms of California cuisine - soy burgers and soy burritos and soy cheesecake and soysage and soy pizzas and soy coffee and things like that. We were the Alice Waters and Wolfgang Puck of soy. And because soybeans in those days cost about three dollars a bushel, which is 60 pounds - today it's probably up to about seven dollars a bushel - what that means is that you can feed one person their protein needs for a year on three to seven dollars if you can make it tasty enough to repeat almost daily. So we could actually make some very elegant world fusion dishes, and to do that we built ourselves a soy dairy, eventually, where we could make milk and tofu and ice cream; frogurt, whipped cream, mayonnaise and things like that. And then we also eventually developed canning and freezing and processing plants to help produce things that would last for longer periods of time. Pickled eggplant was one of my personal favorites. We got into texturized vegetable protein and soy isomers and various forms of frozen deserts, eventually buying an ice cream factory at salvage prices and selling Ice Bean to an 8-state region. ANOF: It sounds like the eating was really an important part socially, a cohesion, a wonderful thing to look forward to. AB: There's actually been a study done by a guy at the University of British Columbia. A professor there did this lovely study where he looked at what is it that communities that have lasted the longest, intentional communities that lasted the longest, what are the factors that they have in common. And one of those that he signaled as being pretty important, that you can pretty much rank the longevity of any community based on this, is common shared meals. The more often people come together, the better their odds. So if they come together daily, three times a day, their odds are excellent. If they come together a couple times a week, their odds are still good. If they come together once a month, they're still better than not coming together at all. There's a direct correlation there between people eating together and getting along in a community. ANOF: Certain sociologists say the same about individual families don't they? AB: Probably so. You know, the other thing about it is that there is a joy in cooking, there's a joy in providing for others by the fruits of your labor. And you see that personal satisfaction of watching other people eat what you've just cooked and complimenting the chef and so on and so forth. All of that is a self-maintaining, self-gratifying kind of effort, but it's also very important from the standpoint of kids growing up in that and propagating that meme of the happy family out to larger and larger groups of extended family and community and so forth. We had lots of kids living in close confinement here - in the early days we didn't have much in the way of housing, so people were living thirty, forty people to a standard house, what you'd call a house in the US today. And so a lot of kids being raised there in those communal settings, going to meals three times a day with everybody else, all the other kids, all the other grownups, and seeing this kind of interaction over the food. It has an effect of making the community more stable from the kids up. As the kids grow into that, they grow up more stable in their social relationships. ANOF: It's funny - it's much maligned by a lot of modern Americans, the idea of growing their own food and, God forbid, cooking it, anything other than a prepackaged microwaved meal - but there really is a joy that many people are missing out on. AB: That's right. You can go back - I don't know how old you are, but for me, I'm in my sixties now and I go back to the early days of television and I remember Mrs. Goldberg, you know, and the old 12-inch black and white TV and the Honeymooners and stuff like that? There were always people standing around the stove, right? There were always people who were making a pot of spaghetti sauce or something. That's what they did. You go to an Amish community and you see the same thing; you go to a Hutterite community and you see the same thing, which is that there are people who are the cooks. They're the ones who really take pleasure in making sure that everybody's well-fed all the time. ANOF: You mentioned successes and some failures in the intentional community movement. I see them as having been wonderful incubators for ideas during the sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties. What do you think of as their role in the 21st century? AB: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head; they're incubators. There was never any sense, I think, in any of the intentional communities that somehow that was the mainstream. People went to intentional communities or joined experimental spiritual communities or bohemian tribes specifically to live outside the mainstream. What they're were doing was living on the edge, experimenting, trying to be true to their personal values and to live in a way that didn't offend their personal values and life goals or make it impossible to raise sane children. If they were lucky, they'd find a bunch of people who had similar values and could live together, practicing what they believed, and that's the nature of the intentional community. Now once you've gotten to that stage, you've freed up a certain amount of creative energy, and you can begin to explore interpersonal dynamics, gestalt therapy, the opportunities to work together in various forms. And as you do that, you begin to actually advance new ideas and new memes which quite often then spread out into the larger mainstream. So the mainstream may not notice, or may not credit the intentional communities with starting some of these things, but actually those kinds of things come into general use after a time because they've been proven out in small experiments out of the limelight. It's kind of a Jeffersonian way of looking at the larger society - every separate entity is its own sovereign and creates its own ways of doing things. And as long as they're peaceful towards each other, they can experiment to their hearts' content. That's how the more liberal thinkers among the US founders- Jefferson, Franklin - saw the States, as opposed to the federal government, in the early days. I'm showing my Southern roots here, because I have a view of states here that's different than people in the North. [laughs] ANOF: Well, I'm in North Carolina here, so I'm familiar with that. [laughs] AB: That's how the Framers thought, if you go back to the Constitutional Convention, or read the Federalist Papers, particularly the southerners. They felt very strongly about having the States as crucibles of experimentation on their own terms, and not be welded into mere divisions of a single homogenous central government, and all look exactly the same. ANOF: Right. And for our book, A Nation of Farmers, we're talking specifically about Jeffersonian vision of democracy because I feel like he had this idea of fairly self-sufficient individual farms, of a people who were marginally sovereign as families or groups of families. They still interacted with others of course, and traded amongst their communities, but that certain level of self-sufficiency insulated them, gave them a certain amount of freedom because they weren't beholden to others for their basic needs. AB: That's right. Here's another piece of that, which is that one of the tensions that you always find in intentional communities, indeed anywhere that people are living together, is this continuum between privacy and public space, or personal space and public space. People want to be able to be left alone, but they also crave the company of people and the opportunity for conviviality. So you have to have a balance in your life, and you have to have a balance in your space, and you have to have the development of forms, patterns that allow for people to be in whatever place they want to be in that given moment and be able to move freely. If you're successful in creating those kinds of forms where people have the option of being public or being private, where people have shared purse or common enterprise but they also have the ability to provide for their immediate needs or their families' immediate needs, then you get to a certain point where you can actually obtain enough happiness, enough contentment, that actually new creative energy comes forth that might be more synergistic, more multiplicative than what you had when everybody was just sort of contending for what they individually needed. ANOF: [Aaron] I'm trained as a landscape architect, so it really bothers me to see what post WWII land development has done to the previous design strategy of a series of private to semi-private to more public spaces as you move farther from the home. What we have now mostly is a really private space, the home with a deck in the back, and then these transportation quarters that move you at high speeds to really public nasty spaces, and those are really your only two options. AB: Here at the training center, one of the courses we teach is Ecovillage Design and what you're discussing is exactly the kind of thing we're talking about - pattern language, Leopold Kohr's sense of management scale, and the Jane Jacobs idea of having shared spaces but a continuum of privacy and public space, and transportation corridors and viewscapes that are pedestrian-scale, government that is personally connected and locally accountable, and that sort of thing. ANOF: You mentioned the Ecovillage Training Center at The Farm, and you helped found that almost fifteen years ago? AB: 1994, so actually that's about right, almost 15 years now. I'll take you back a little there, because I had a number of years after being the horse farmer that I described earlier, and a flour miller, where I would have to describe myself as more of a ronin. You know, that's the samurai who gets kicked out because the lord can't afford him anymore and so he kind of becomes a freelance samurai? I retired from farming and flour milling, and also a short career as a brickmason, and was working with The Farm's alternative energy crew, and in the process made a number of inventions, some of them patented, for solar powered hybrid electric cars, bamboo windmills, tofu presses, flour sifters, mobile concentrating photovoltaic collectors, that sort of thing. We displayed a lot of that at our Appropriate Community Technology Pavilion at the 1982 World's Fair, which was an old Victorian house we helped keep from being leveled to make room for the fairgrounds. In 1977 I started an organization called the Natural Rights Center, which was based on this concept that there are transgenerational torts - wrongs by some persons against others - and that we actually have a transgenerational threat matrix; our nuclear energy, transgenic, climate-tampering technology, all those kinds of things, are creating conditions for future peoples which they will be powerless to do anything about. It's being imposed upon them by the present generation, and that's actually criminal conduct, organized criminal activity, and that there ought to be something that can be done about that if you take it to a court of law. So my push over the next twenty years - eighteen years, actually - was to take that stuff and make it into civil rights battles, human rights battles, internationally, and also to write legislation on various things to improve the situation. I got into the Who's Who for law, Who's Who for science,Who's Who for engineering, and Who's Who for emerging leaders. And I decided at some point that I was much too much of a Type A individual to be doing that kind of stuff; I was getting high blood pressure, I needed to get out of it. So I retired from that. Once I really understood climate change, I got out of that whole thing of fighting the bad guy, and I purchased a small business called Mushroompeople which was a way of improving the health of the forests and the health of people by using mushrooms - forest mushrooms, rather than the kind that are manufactured in large factories. We brought that to The Farm and started a little mail-order business selling kits to farmers for making a living from growing forest mushrooms. I stayed with that for a few years and then some other things intervened. The Farm was awarded the first Right Livelihood Award - we shared it with an Egyptian architect, you may know, Hassan Fathi - and that brought me to a conference in Italy where we were talking about the things having to do with the future, and Helena Norberg-Hodge, another recipient of the Award, said an interesting thing. She said, "Ecovillages are so important to the world that people ought to be paid to live in them."And I thought, I don't think we can actually sell that idea very easily, but I think that you have the right idea, the right sentiment. We're actually getting more information about the way we need to live in the future by that way than we are from all of the grants that are being paid to scientific or academic organizations to study climate change or to deal with some of these other major issues or resource limits. Just by people changing their lifestyles it would change the world tremendously, but nobody knows how to do it. And yet, ecovillagers are doing it. So about that same time, because of that same conference, I got invited to a meeting in Denmark to kind of coalesce the ecovillage movement.We set up the first conference on ecovillages and sustainable communities in 1995 in Scotland, and at that conference I was elected to the board of the Global Ecovillage Network, although a year earlier I had already founded the Ecovillage Network of the Americas. That launched me off onto a new career out of the mushroom business and into twelve years of traveling ecovillage to ecovillage all over the world, talking to different government authorities, talking to the UN, doing things like that, and kind of being "Johnny Ecovillage Seed" for this concept.And now I've retired again. ANOF: [laughs] How many times have you retired? AB: If you ever get me to a college where they do a commencement ceremony and I'm the speaker, my advice: "Retire early, retire often!". [laughs] So I retired again, because I had taken that about as far as I could take it. After a dozen years I was president of the Global Ecovillage Network, president of the Ecovillage Network of the Americas, and I got tired. So I'm now a simple permaculture teacher, teaching here at The Farm in this training center. Our effort is to try to empower people to create change through personal lifestyle choices and through creating communities, whether these are transition communities like the Transition Towns movement or new villages like ecovillages or modified intentional communities or whatever it is. We give people skills and tools to help them do that. ANOF: It looks like we're going to have a shortage of arable land going forward, as our human population grows and as we salinate, and desertification and deforestation. AB: We've got a shortage now, and it appears that that shortage is growing. The thing about that is that there's this whole bugaboo about people saying that since the last ice age we've been depleting our soil and that we're in this irreversible decline now; we've past peak soil and we're now on this downslope, and so we're going to face this huge famine from that. My personal experience is, I know how to make soil. I teach people how to make soil. We've been making soil here at The Farm for years and years and years; we know how to make soil. It's not difficult to make soil, and I say the same thing for arable land. We can make arable land. One of the things I do when I go out and talk is I go up there on the stage and I put up the projector and I have this short Shockwave Flash movie of Geoff Lawton making forest in the middle of the desert in Jordan. He is growing mushrooms in the soil and the mycelium is locking up the salt in the desert so that the soils have tilth and come alive. And we can do that: we can take all of our deserts and turn them into farmland. Lately I have been researching the paleoclimatology of the Sahara and I am beginning to think it is even possible there. We can at least reverse the desertification trend in the Sahel, and it is possible we can reforest in Chad and elsewhere where there are aquifers. ANOF: How about our suburbs? AB: Well, suburbs are poorly designed. Being an architect, you probably understand. They need some redesign - David Holmgren has some interesting ideas about that. You can take out every third house or every fourth house and begin to cluster up a bit and have connections between houses, and have land that has farming uses or other kinds of common activity. But the suburbs need redesign if for no other reason than they don't have essential infrastructure within walking distance. They need to have food production, they need to have water, but they need to have shops, schools, churches, theaters and clinics, a cemetery and things like that in every suburb. ANOF: How much does food production and cooking factor into the systems you teach at the center? AB: We do two long-term apprenticeships here at the center. One is in natural building and the other is in food, principally growing, although there's a certain amount of work in the kitchen as well. There's a bit of overlap there - the people who come to do natural building also get to learn about cooking and gardening. We do concentrate on those because we feel that it's pretty important that people change their lifestyles, and a chunk of that is how they make food, how they prepare soil, how they preserve water, how they go through droughts. Climate change is real. I mentioned the USDA changing it's charts; we've got an isotherm migration here of about 35 miles per decade since about 1971 when The Farm was started here. It's been speeding up that whole time, so now it's estimated to be closer to 70 miles per decade. That's moving from southwest to northeast; that means that we're warming here at a rate of somewhere between 30 and 70 miles per decade, and the climate that was here when we got here in middle south-central Tennessee in 1970 is now up in Lexington, Kentucky. And the climate that we have now in middle south-central Tennessee in 2008 was in Nashoba County, Mississippi back in 1971. That's real. Now, can you actually provide for food when you have a sustained drought like they had in Georgia or Tennessee last year? You can, if you know what you're doing, if you know a few basic skills like mulch, like rainwater storage and replenishing your aquifers and things like that. So we teach all of that. We did not lose any of our crops in the drought of 2007. The deep mulch retained moisture at the roots. I think of that when I travel and see all of these gardens and fields laid bare for the sun to bleach out all the life-giving bacteria and soil microbes. How 15th Century! ANOF: Derek Jenson, the author, has this great quote - I'll have to paraphrase because I can't remember exactly - but he says something like, "The great thing about everything being so fucked up is that there's so much to do!" AB: And the other Derek Jenson line that I often quote is, "We're fucked, and life is very, very good." ANOF: [laughs] Well, you seem to have a handle on so many of the changes that are going on and you've been doing this for so long, I just appreciate getting a chance to talk to you and interview you for this project. AB: Well, let me just close by saying something about the future for us. We may soon find that the model that we've created for a business here for the Ecovillage Training Center will not sustain past the period of no airplanes flying or people having the ability to travel long distances to come take a course here. And national currencies could become worthless also. So we're actually looking at a transition now, and some of our effort is directed toward the surrounding communities - going out to several counties around us and teaching these skills at the very simple level of where people are at in the surrounding areas rather than telling them that they have to learn permaculture or something. I have learned much from my friend, Rob Hopkins, and the Transition Towns movement, and I think that offers a strategy that is the next step after the experimental vessel of ecovillages. It is really a synthesis of ecovillage and re-localization, intentional community and sustainable development. Then also the example of The Farm has transitioned out of its early days of more self-reliance into much more bourgeois living in people's middle age or later years. And so we actually have to go back and say, "You know, we learned a whole lot back in those early days of the 70's; we sure could be doing a lot more of that now again. "We're having to re-learn or think about reclaiming some of that earlier skill set. So we're in a transition here.We're stable but not static. It's much tougher now, because our population has aged and our youth are still somewhat disinterested, but we're moving. We're in the process of changing ourselves. Events will force us to speed that up soon enough. Best of all, we have tools we did not have in 1971. We have permaculture, biochar, E.M. (effective microorganisms), compost tea, biodynamic preps, aquatic garden systems, and activated water. We can terrace slopes with our bulldozers and road graders that can run on pond algae and used cooking oil. We have Japanese forest mushrooms, tempeh, and home-brewed beer. I'm happy, because the children have, to a larger extent then they may appreciate, already got it and they're turning around and heading in the right direction pretty quickly. My son, Will, is living in a passive solar house and farming; he's got several acres in CSA vegetable gardens now, and he's coming by all the time and asking for different bits of advice and tools and things. One of my next-door neighbor's kids, Biko, has spent several years living in ecovillages in South Africa and India and has returned with a whole new set of skills. That's the kind of thing that gives me real hope - that the next generation is hip, they're on board, they've got the vision, and they can see what's possible. And having done it all myself when I was young and full of crazy ideas, I don't worry that they can do it just as easily as I did. And everyone else can too. ANOF: Thank you for your wonderful vision of the future. From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 21:28:19 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:28:19 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: We'll Never Be Happy Consumers Again Message-ID: <003d01c98cca$58b9bde0$0a2d39a0$@net> Hi Bob, Long time no hear. Thanks for the input. It looks to me like guys like Kuntsler and Bates are the ones we should be paying attention to these days rather than jawing about the stimulus package and what's going on with Wall Street. While we need to keep and eye on what's going on there, it's "what's going on down on the farm" that's going to be important as we are forced to move into "survival mode". Don't want to leave out Richard Heinberg either, but haven't heard a peep from him in a long while. Again, people need to be getting books like "MONEY" by Thomas H. Greco Jr. and "Your Money or Your Life" by Viki Robbin. And, don't forget to get hooked into the Transition Movement wherever you are. The life you save may be your own. This ride is going to be a very, very rough one. What's appearing is that the Stimulus Package is "too little, too late," however, Obama has no choice but to try and push it through. If he doesn't people will say he didn't do anything, but when it doesn't help, the rest are going to say "he just threw good money after bad" and the Republicans know that. My heart went to him last night and this morning. What a hell of a position to be in. But, I have to say again, it's best just to let it all go and hit bottom -- if it doesn't it will only be a few years before we have to go through this again. It's quite obvious that the system is so corrupt that it won't hold water and this is going to take whole new re-piping job. m r -----Original Message----- From: Robert Ocegueda [mailto:bocegueda at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:54 PM To: Bob Ocegueda Cc: Terese Johnson; Tony Tersol Subject: We'll Never Be Happy Consumers Again This is a good "reality check". What Kunstler describes is more likely to happen than any of the happy "hope" we are being fed. http://www.alternet.org/workplace/126104/everything_still_looks_the_same,_bu t_we've_become_a_new_country/?comments=view&cID=1131822&pID=1131764#c1131822 When you get to the readers comments, you'll see most being very pessimistic about our prospective future, but I think they are mistaken. There are already solutions being brought into reality. And they all consist of getting together with your neighbors... local communities. Forget about getting any assistance/protection from the Federal Gov., global organizations or even the State Government. It's all local. Your town and region. Get to know them now. Here is ONE example (there are others). It is catching on all around the world. http://transitionculture.org/ Don't miss their free book about how to do it. http://transitionculture.org/2009/02/05/transition-networks-who-we-are-and-w hat-we-do-document-available/ As Dimitri Orlov suggests in "Reinventing Collapse", the financial system is likely to be the first of our social structure to collapse, as we are presently witnessing. At that time we will still need finances to continue with the activities of life. Part of the solution will be "community currency". http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123128312320458913.html Get ready , in your heart, for the amazing changes that are coming our way. Our children will be better off at the other side. Peace. Bob From maryrose333 at att.net Wed Feb 11 22:53:03 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:53:03 -0800 Subject: [GJM] A Smarter Electric Grid Message-ID: <008901c98cd6$2f225940$8d670bc0$@net> Here's where the grid and consumer's may clash with consumer's wanting off the grid to enable them in obtaining more freedom of choice to generate energy from renewable sources, e.g., wind, solar, thermal, and Zero Point when it becomes available, and then to sell their excess to the grid. How this is going to play out is anybody's guess right now. However, a legalized Civil Movement would be most beneficial in representing We-the-People worldwide in this respect. A Smarter Electric Grid. http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-02/smarter-electric-grid FutureDawning.org Mary Rose dustysummerrose at gmail.com Always have my latest info Want a signature like this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 12 03:42:56 2009 From: dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk (robert searle) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:42:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GJM] [socialcredit] Re: The Guernsey "Magic Money" Story, yet again In-Reply-To: <93350.86316.qm@web54001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <835899.9887.qm@web27406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/2/09, william_b_ryan at yahoo.com wrote: From: william_b_ryan at yahoo.com Subject: [socialcredit] Re: The Guernsey "Magic Money" Story, yet again To: socialcredit at elistas.com Date: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 3:35 PM Originally posted to this list, April 12, 2006: --------------------------------------------------- You might remember that we had lengthy discussions on this list from April through July of last year regarding the validity and history of the Guernsey "magic money" myth, a selection from which I've archived at http://www.geocities.com/w_b_ryan/guernsey-elistas.txt An interesting though peculiar aspect to the Guernsey "magic money" story is that it continues to be promoted from certain quarters as being descriptive of the system actually in place in Guernsey today: >From Ken Palmerton's note yesterday in replying to Joe Thomson (Palmerton's note is appended in full text below): "Guernsey, as the smaller of the Two major Channel Islands, issue its circulating medium of exchange upon the authority of the States, the islands Parliament. And as with its larger cousin, Jersey, have done so for at least the last Three Hundred years. I am not able to verify the earlier issue as the language of the records is one that I can no longer read. There is no case for 'Purported', neither is there any reason to think about 'Discount'. They were, and still are a simple interest free currency issued by the community against need, backed by the creditworthiness of the community, and their ability to create wealth." - The following quotations are from official Guernsey government websites: "Guernsey's notes and coins are legal tender in the Bailiwick but not outside, where their acceptability is limited. Bank of England notes and UK Treasury coins are also legal tender in the Bailiwick and circulate alongside the locally issued currency. The first issue of Guernsey notes was in 1816 and was of considerable benefit to the Island by helping to finance large States projects. However, the States of Guernsey currency is now issued to local banks on demand in the conventional manner, for which the banks pay face value." http://www.dataprotection.gov.gg The fact of the matter is that Guernsey has in recent decades become a major "offshore" banking sanctuary (Captured, might we say, by international finance? Or the drug cartel?), with nearly one fourth of its entire working population directly employed in its financial services sector: "Recent figures show that there were 31,436 people employed in the island, of which 7,158 were working in the financial services sector and many more in service areas supporting the sector." http://www.guernseyfinance.com "Whilst embracing innovation in the provision of banking services through the pragmatic implementation of regulation, the approach taken by the Guernsey Financial Services Commission is founded on the principle tenets of banking, stability and security. These high standards contribute to confidence in Guernsey and have enabled the island to evolve into a pre-eminent jurisdiction for the provision of confidential banking services." http://www.guernseyfinance.com Note the term: "confidential banking services." The real source of Guernsey's modern "prosperity." ------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Scrip Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 18:05:00 (+0100) From: Kenneth Palmerton Hi. In the real world we can make the subject of "Scrip" as complicated, or as simple as we like, depending I think upon wether we approve, or disapprove as one issuing our own, or like the banker kind seeking a monopoly. You return to the subject of Guernsey issue, and have clearly been confused by those who seem to have very little actual knowledge of this, and would rather add to the confusion with their ignorance. Supporting the banker who clearly did not like what the community was doing, and wished to crush the initiative. Guernsey, as the smaller of the Two major Channel Islands, issue its circulating medium of exchange upon the authority of the States, the islands Parliament. And as with its larger cousin, Jersey, have done so for at least the last Three Hundred years. I am not able to verify the earlier issue as the language of the records is one that I can no longer read. There is no case for "Purported", neither is there any reason to think about "Discount". They were, and still are a simple interest free currency issued by the community against need, backed by the creditworthiness of the community, and their ability to create wealth. Over the last Thirty years I have stumbled over hundreds of instances of things similar, and yes, you are right, some of them ARE scams. In fact it was this situation that in the UK resulted in the enactment of the "Truck" Acts. Legislation that allowed workers to refuse to be paid in anything other than the coin of the realm. The "Tommy Shops" that some employers had set up were clear high priced rip offs, though by no means all. The retail Co-Operative movement in fact grew out of this. But as it happened this act had to be repealed as it was otherwise technically illegal for a worker to be paid by cheque. As an instance of these tally issues, until very recently the City of Sheffield had a ten foot by ten foot glass display case with HUNDREDS of these tokens displayed, issued by firms in that city alone over the years. Then there is the City of Liverpool. But that is another story :-) This was common practice. Ken. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium You're subscribed to this list with the email dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 12 09:20:49 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] The economic crisis is even worse than Obama admits. Message-ID: <000201c98d2d$e4bff580$ae3fe080$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:31 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] The economic crisis is even worse than Obama admits. (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) "Geithner is realistically pessimistic about the economic crisis while the rest of Washington-even President Obama-hasn't caught on to how bad it is yet." Ready for More Bad News? http://www.newsweek.com/id/184266?from=rss The economic crisis is even worse than Obama admits. In the past week, the stock market reacted erratically to two huge government actions intended to shore up economic confidence. As this five-day chart of the Dow Jones industrial average shows, stocks rallied last Thursday and Friday as a deal over fiscal stimulus crystallized. The mere anticipation of the passage of an $800 billion-plus stimulus package was enough to get people whistling "Happy Days Are Here Again." But on Tuesday, stocks surrendered most of those gains after Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner laid out the latest plan to stabilize the faltering financial industry. What accounts for bipolar response? These were twin, aggressive efforts to deal with the woes affecting the whole economy and the pathetic financial sector. Why would Geithner's Treasury plan worry Wall Street while the stimulus plan didn't? As a public speaker, Geithner is no Obama. Geithner could learn to be more upbeat, but that wouldn't be useful. Investors have lost faith in the financial system precisely because policymakers and executives engaged in the classic post-bubble reaction of promising a swift return to profitability. (In my forthcoming e-book, Dumb Money, I dub the realization that the titans of finance were a bunch of clueless oafs "The Slow Unmasking.") Geithner is realistically pessimistic about the economic crisis while the rest of Washington-even President Obama-hasn't caught on to how bad it is yet. From the rhetoric surrounding the stimulus bill, you'd think the American economy is already stabilized, able to breathe on its own, and ready to get up and start walking. The bill itself is called the Economic Recovery and Reinvestment Plan. Its success will be measured, Obama noted in his press conference last night, through positive milestones, most notably the saving or creation of 4 million jobs. That number, which he used six times, was the justification for the size of the package and its urgency: "It's important for us to have a bill of sufficient size and scope that we can save or create 4 million jobs." Obama might want to retire that line, for this reason. The takeaway: Things are tough and might get somewhat worse. But this plan is a plan for recovery and job creation. Quantcast Geithner struck a different tone in his speech. The patient he diagnosed is nowhere near ready for ambulatory care or physical therapy. Rather, it's struggling to breathe without life support. Worse, it is still in danger of infecting the whole hospital. The financial sector, pro-cyclical on the way up-easy money begat more easy money-is also pro-cyclical on the way down. "Instead of catalyzing recovery, the financial system is working against recovery," he noted. For Geithner, the plan is more about stabilization and triage rather than recovery. Look at the language he uses. The initiative's Web site is FinancialStability.gov. "We're going to require banking institutions to go through a carefully designed comprehensive stress test, to use the medical term," Geithner said. Merely stabilizing the patients under his care, Geithner said, would be an expensive and lengthy process. "This strategy will cost money, involve risk, and take time," he said. Even when the course of treatment is complete, a recovery may still be a long way off. "As costly as this effort may be, we know that the cost of a complete collapse of our financial system would be incalculable for families, for businesses and for our nation." (Here's the fact sheet.) The takeaway: The financial sector is still in meltdown. The best we can hope for is that these hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending and support will help stabilize things. The great challenge for Obama now is that the economy at large is beginning to resemble the financial sector. The latest readings on job losses, auto sales, and overall economic growth show an economy that is spiraling downward. Politicians may be hoping that the economy is like a bungee-cord jumper, who, after experiencing a sickening drop, experiences great relief as he bounces back sharply. But they might want to temper the promises they make about recovery. Many economists believe we need a bigger stimulus package, not a smaller one. Obama's rhetoric about recovery may be reassuring, but, at this point, Geithner's pessimism is more credible. From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 12 09:20:49 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] The Baltic Dry Index and Empty Store Shelves Message-ID: <001e01c98d2d$ee15ca60$ca415f20$@net> This is a great site with lots of good information on how to survive the crash. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:36 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] The Baltic Dry Index and Empty Store Shelves (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) The Baltic Dry Index and Empty Store Shelves http://survivingthemiddleclasscrash.wordpress.com/ All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. - Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 12 09:20:49 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Drought Threatens California Agriculture Message-ID: <002301c98d2d$f2e94b70$d8bbe250$@net> From: Michael Dimock, Roots of Change [mailto:info at rocnetwork.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:14 PM To: maryrose333 at att.net Subject: Drought Threatens California Agriculture roc logo Dear MaryRose, Response to Drought is Dry Run for a Response to Climate Change drought Today, the San Francisco Chronicle published our op-ed calling for balanced responses to California's continuing drought. Managing this crisis will be difficult for our heavily burdened state, but it can also prove to be fertile training ground for future challenges. We believe that the power to solve the immense challenges facing our food system lies within our Changemakers Network. We shared our opinion, and now we would like you to weigh in on the subject. Please take a moment to read the op-ed, and then tell us what you think. Visit www.rocnetwork.org to read the op-ed and post comments. Sincerely, Michael Dimock President, Roots of Change Roots of Change, 221 Kearny Street, 3rd Floor San Francisco, California 94108 www.rocnetwork.org Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to maryrose333 at att.net by info at rocnetwork.org. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by Roots of Change | 221 Kearny Street | 3rd Floor | San Francisco | CA | 94108 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 12 13:21:39 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:21:39 -0800 Subject: [GJM] IMPORTANT: FW: Drunvalo & the coming changes Message-ID: <008a01c98d4f$871bab00$95530100$@net> Robynne, thanks for fwd this. With regard to Drunvalo's video I became aware of another aspect with regard to the configuration of the human body as a "quantum computer". So far have documented the brain as the processer, the subconscious mind (the body) ais where the software (programming) is installed, And that the body is also designed as a superconductor and is made up of "liquid crystalline," with each cell configured exactly as a computer chip. What Drunvalo tells in this video is that the aura, or the energy field with which we are surrounded, is the "screen" or "monitor " upon which the images we see are projected. And this was a missing link for me. Due to the quality of the video coupled with me being tone deaf and missing some things, I was unable to determine what he said about the "third eye and the pituitary gland. So, if anyone gets this info, please let me know. Drunvalo also confirms that it is all happening "in here" and there is no "out there" from the perspective of ancient traditions, and, of course that is what science is corroborating today. I am often reading that the universe and everything in it "looks more like one giant thought" as I go about my research. And, of course as we realize that there is no "solid matter" with everything being a vibrating field of coded information, the Universe as an "illusion," as revealed in ancient texts also falls into place. It Is the electromagnetic field that underlies all of life which appears to hold everything together and provide form. It will be most interesting to read Bruce Lipton's forth-coming book: "Fractal Evolution," when he is finished with it, and learn how and why life (human Consciousness" unfolds in the manner it does. According to nuclear physicist, Lawrence Fagg, in his book: "Electromagnetism and the Sacred," what we refer to as God is radiant light vibrating at a very high frequency. And bringing in Valerie Hunt's information, that frequency appears to be at 1100 hz. Then we have the Akashic or Zero Point Energy field as the equivalent of the Universal Mind. This is the field in which all memory is stored for all time. This field is located in the "plenum" which exists in what was once thought to be empty space, but now we know that this space, sometimes referred to as "hyperspace" is really "teeming with energy." (Ervin Lazlo). Thus the idea of each of us being the equivalent of a personal quantum computer and the Akashic or ZPE field acting as a mainframe, may not be too far out of sync with reality. Also very interesting in this video, for me, is as to how the fetus develops in the womb, emerging out of a "tetrahedron" form with the heart developing first. The understanding of Sacred Geometry can play a major role in understanding human consciousness and how life is formed around consciousness, strongly suggesting that consciousness may precede life in our human body and may continue after the body is gone. In my research for "The Sacred Quest for the Who of I Am," there is a lot of information revealing that the heart is much more powerful than the brain, and has the power to override the brain. The heart actually has more neural cells than does the brain. And, we discussed previously as to how the heart is surrounded by a torus field which extends beyond the body and appears as the aura discussed above. What we also know is that that a torus field also surrounds the Earth and the Atom. Some scientists refer to these fields as "holons" and what appears is that these fields are nested together much like Russian dolls. What science is also revealing is that there was no 'Big Bang' - the Earth lies within one of multiple universes which appears to have slowly emerged out of past universes which may be infinite in number. More later on this, for now enjoy the video Robynne has forwarded for our information. From: W. Robynne McWayne [mailto:wrmcwayne at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:35 AM Subject: FW: Drunvalo & the coming changes Here's a good one! I'm sure you've heard Drunvalo before. . . ~ 34 min. That Kryon transmission I was mentioning last night at the Seth Mtg also spoke of "the light" transferring from India to the Chilean Andes. http://www.kryon.com/k_channel08_Chile.html I wonder if we have a great teacher emerging there? See the link to Drunvalo's video below: _____ From: sherryk22 at comcast.net Subject: Fwd: Drunvalo & the coming changes Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:44:21 -0800 I loved this video. I think you will too. Let me know. Love, Sherry Must see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Subject: Drunvalo & the coming changes Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 1:15 PM If you haven't seen his 12/18/2008 video, it is worth watching. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=224192221381464375 &hl=en At the heart of who you are is a love song that has always been resonating." In the Key of Life, An Activational Journey to the Soul http://joancerio.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZtI5AHlIo > > _____ Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. See how it works. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Thu Feb 12 14:21:39 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:21:39 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: Congress Signs Death Warrant for Thousands of Companies Message-ID: <00ec01c98d57$eb5de440$c219acc0$@net> From: Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Congress Signs Death Warrant for Thousands of Companies D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h _____ Quote of the Day: "Never could an increase of comfort or security be a sufficient good to be bought at the price of liberty." -- Hilaire Belloc (1870-1953) French-born British writer Subject: Congress signs death warrant for thousands of companies An isolated problem with lead contamination in Chinese products has resulted in a severe overreaction by Congress. Our elected representatives rushed to judgement. They passed the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act," without taking the time to . . . * Think through the details * Consider all the consequences of their action * Correctly estimate the real danger posed by lead in products It's important to recognize that while lead contamination was once a major concern, especially for children, the situation has improved dramatically . . . * Between 1997 and 2006, incidence of elevated blood lead levels in children fell by 84%. * According to an anti-pollution website, "Currently (2001), mean blood lead levels are generally well below the level of concern across all age groups." (emphasis added) * According to the Center for Disease Control, the remaining area of concern is lead paint in older homes, and a few other "potential" dangers mainly related to the household environment. Toys and other children's products are nowhere mentioned. Clearly, public exposure to lead is under control and improving, but highly-publicized cases of lead contamination in Chinese products have caused Congress to create vast new regulations that impact not just Chinese products, but our entire economy. Only one House member and three Senators voted against the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act" (CPSIA) but those who supported it may soon regret their votes. The CPSIA . . . * sets a low bar of acceptable lead levels in almost all children's products * prohibits existing products with higher lead levels from being sold * requires independent, third-party testing of each component of new products, whether they're homemade or mass-produced * makes no distinction between products with a history of possibly high lead content, such as painted toys, and products that have no such history, such as children's books. All must be tested * imposes six-figure fines and five-year prison sentences for violations * empowers state Attorneys General, many of whom are headline-seeking hack politicians, to help enforce the law Producers must pay for the testing. This will drive many companies out of business . . . * According to Walter Olson, "The maker of a kids' telescope (with no suspected problems) was quoted a $24,000 testing estimate, on a product with only $32,000 in annual sales." * A German toymaker that already complies with strict EU standards estimates the required testing will increase prices by at least 50%. They're pulling out of the U.S. market. * Even homemade baby clothes for sale at fairs will have to be tested, effectively banning them. Small, "green" manufacturers, using only organic materials, could also be wiped out because they can't afford the per-unit testing on their small production runs. This will increase the market share for large companies that are better able to absorb the compliance costs. Ironically, large toy makers, like Mattel, were responsible for the lead scare in the first place. It gets worse . . . * Thrift store managers can't afford to test old toys to comply with the new regulations. They may have to remove products or risk persecution from the government, crusading parent's groups, and lawyers. This will badly hurt the low-income families who rely on such stores. * Librarians don't know how to comply with the new regulations: they may have to either pull children's books from their shelves, or ban children from their libraries. The new regulations could even harm the health of low-income families. They may have to purchase new clothes if thrift stores are afraid to sell old ones. This would leave less money in tight budgets for things like nutritious food, medicine, and heating. Many of these products and services will also cost more because of the new regulations. The current recession makes all of these problems more severe. The regulations also risk making the recession even worse. The law went into effect this week (February 10, 2009). The testing requirements start a year from now. The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has heard the complaints and are scrambling to adjust. In some instances they're trying to make reasonable accommodations, but the law limits their discretion. The CPSIA is too flawed to amend; it must be scrapped. Use DownsizeDC.org's Educate the Powerful System to tell Congress to repeal the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act." Tell them it will hurt the economy and low income families. Use some of the bullet-point examples from above in your personal comments. Please also use this Dispatch to educate, recruit, and increase the pressure on Congress. Two great ways to do this are to forward this message to others and to "Digg" it on our blog. Thank you for being a part of the growing Downsize DC Army, Jim Babka President DownsizeDC.org, Inc. D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. & Downsize DC Foundation Normally published 3 - 6 times per week. CONTRIBUTE in support of the "Educate the Powerful System" http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. Operations office: 1931 15th St. Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44223, 202.521.1200 IF you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. The Downsize DC Team would like to thank you for subscribing to the Downsizer-Dispatch, which you did by going to http://www.downsizedc.org/page/newsletter or by using our Educate the Powerful System to send a message. Your subscription comes to this email address: planetnews8 at gmail.com You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. If you do not want to receive any more newsletters (to unsubscribe), click this link To update your newsletter preferences visit this link - Powered by PHPlist2.10.5, © tincan ltd -- -- www.rejenx.com/SelectYourMembership.aspx ID 4282 - Holy Tea Cleanse www.prosperitea.com Whole Wellness Club (click upper right corner) - LIBERTY in Our Lifetime! www.PlanetaryRepublic.com www.CampaignForLiberty.com - Nancy and Earle...Planetnews 949-200-7335 land 800-889-7372 toll-free -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 03:12:16 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:42:16 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: [IHRO] Israeli spokesman - We Control Stupid Americans Message-ID: <124444.19304.qm@web94909.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Sharing a mail with stupid arrogance of the spokesperson of Israel. Arrognance historically have been punished whether it be the arrogance of Phraoh in Egypt or Ravana of Lanka. Allah/God/..does not like those who boast. ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Fri, 13/2/09, chaudry wrote: From: chaudry Subject: [IHRO] Israeli spokesman - We Control Stupid Americans To: indiangirlsshoweverything at yahoogroups.com, "human rights" , "urdu" , "lahore" , "jordans" , "hot" , gangbangbrazil at yahoogroups.com, "saudi" , "cute" , bhabhi at yahoogroups.com, bhabhi1 at yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 1:11 AM Israeli Spokesman Says We Control Stupid?Americans ?Another Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache, stated that she was not worried about negative ramifications the Israeli onslaught on Gaza might have on the way the Obama administration would view Israel. She said ?You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can?t criticize Israel.? One cannot help but wonder how could a group of people, who claim to be the victims of a holocaust, commit another holocaust against another nation. What is it that feeds, perpetuates and intensifies this Judaic genocidal spirit although all Arabs, including Palestinians, had offered these Zionist Jews many agreements of coexistence, peace and security? The answer comes through their media outlets, through the words of their scholarly educators, and through the teachings of their Rabbis. ?All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts? cries the religious opinion of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, the director of the long-established Tsomet Religious Institute. He wrote that Palestinians are like the nation of Amalekites, who attacked the Israelite tribes led by Moses on their way to Jerusalem. He stated that the Lord sent down in the Torah a ruling that allowed the Jews to kill the Amalekites, and that this ruling is known in Jewish jurisprudence. The Torah states: ?Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy.. Kill continuously, one after the other. Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys.? Rosen stated that Amalekites are not a particular race, but rather all those who hate and oppose the Jews; Christians and Muslims. Many leading Israeli Rabbis support Rosen?s views. Israel?s former Sephardic Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu advocated carpet bombing of Gaza stating that ?there is absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during massive military offensive on Gaza? (The Jerusalem Post, 30 May, 2007). Israeli educators, scholars, and politicians, openly, advocate the annihilation of all Palestinians. Eli Yeshai, Israeli official in the Orthodox Shas party argued that ?extermination of the enemy is sanctioned by the Torah? Many other politicians called for the need for ?wiping off Gaza from the face of earth?, and ?annihilating of every moving thing there.? The right-wing Israeli politician Avigdor Lieberman proposed nuking Gaza following the US example when it dropped the atomic bomb on Japan during WWII. This ?ideology of annihilation? is by no means a minority opinion in Israel, but represents a mainstream in the Jews of Israel as well as Jews in the West (US). The popular attitude is ?if it was right by God to order us to commit genocide during Biblical time, why can?t it be right to commit genocide now. Has God changed his mind?? Israeli Jews are brainwashed and indoctrinated into the ideology of annihilation by their rabbis and scholars through Israeli media. The Israeli spokesman, Nachman Abramovic demonized Palestinian children stating ?They may look young to you, but these people are terrorists at heart. Don?t look at their deceptively innocent faces, try to think of the demons inside each of them ? I am absolutely certain these people would grow to be evil terrorists if we allowed them to grow? would you allow them to grow to kill your children or finish them off right now? ? honost and moral people ought to differentiate between true humans and human animals. We do kill human animals and we do so unapologetically. Besides who in the West is in a position to lecture us on killing human animals.. After all, whose hands are clean?? Human animal mentioned by Abramovic refers to the Judaic religious belief that Jews are Gods chosen people; the elite and the pure-blooded, while all others (non-Jews, Goyims, gentiles) are animal souls incarnated into human bodies to serve the Jews. Killing a human animal is just a sport like hunting deer or birds. http://pakalert. wordpress. com/2009/ 02/02/israeli- spokesman- says-we-control- stupid-americans / ? ? http://img136. imageshack. us/img136/ 6105/95784899ps1 .jpg __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar International Human Rights Organisation (IHRO), of the Indian subcontinent, is a NGO, with national focus and overseas lobby network. It agitates both in India and internationally. MARKETPLACE >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity ?65 New Members ?2 New LinksVisit Your Group Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. .. __,_._,___ Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 03:13:21 2009 From: mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com (Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:43:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [GJM] Fw: [IHRO] Stupid and dangerous arrogance of Israeli spokesman ' We Control Stupid Americans Message-ID: <780883.16668.qm@web94911.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Sharing a mail with stupid arrogance of the spokesperson of Israel. Arrognance historically have been punished whether it be the arrogance of Phraoh in Egypt or Ravana of Lanka. Allah/God/..does not like those who boast. ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam --- On Fri, 13/2/09, chaudry wrote: From: chaudry Subject: [IHRO] Israeli spokesman - We Control Stupid Americans To: indiangirlsshoweverything at yahoogroups.com, "human rights" , "urdu" , "lahore" , "jordans" , "hot" , gangbangbrazil at yahoogroups.com, "saudi" , "cute" , bhabhi at yahoogroups.com, bhabhi1 at yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 1:11 AM Israeli Spokesman Says We Control Stupid?Americans ?Another Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache, stated that she was not worried about negative ramifications the Israeli onslaught on Gaza might have on the way the Obama administration would view Israel. She said ?You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can?t criticize Israel.? One cannot help but wonder how could a group of people, who claim to be the victims of a holocaust, commit another holocaust against another nation. What is it that feeds, perpetuates and intensifies this Judaic genocidal spirit although all Arabs, including Palestinians, had offered these Zionist Jews many agreements of coexistence, peace and security? The answer comes through their media outlets, through the words of their scholarly educators, and through the teachings of their Rabbis. ?All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts? cries the religious opinion of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, the director of the long-established Tsomet Religious Institute. He wrote that Palestinians are like the nation of Amalekites, who attacked the Israelite tribes led by Moses on their way to Jerusalem. He stated that the Lord sent down in the Torah a ruling that allowed the Jews to kill the Amalekites, and that this ruling is known in Jewish jurisprudence. The Torah states: ?Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy.. Kill continuously, one after the other. Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys.? Rosen stated that Amalekites are not a particular race, but rather all those who hate and oppose the Jews; Christians and Muslims. Many leading Israeli Rabbis support Rosen?s views. Israel?s former Sephardic Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu advocated carpet bombing of Gaza stating that ?there is absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during massive military offensive on Gaza? (The Jerusalem Post, 30 May, 2007). Israeli educators, scholars, and politicians, openly, advocate the annihilation of all Palestinians. Eli Yeshai, Israeli official in the Orthodox Shas party argued that ?extermination of the enemy is sanctioned by the Torah? Many other politicians called for the need for ?wiping off Gaza from the face of earth?, and ?annihilating of every moving thing there.? The right-wing Israeli politician Avigdor Lieberman proposed nuking Gaza following the US example when it dropped the atomic bomb on Japan during WWII. This ?ideology of annihilation? is by no means a minority opinion in Israel, but represents a mainstream in the Jews of Israel as well as Jews in the West (US). The popular attitude is ?if it was right by God to order us to commit genocide during Biblical time, why can?t it be right to commit genocide now. Has God changed his mind?? Israeli Jews are brainwashed and indoctrinated into the ideology of annihilation by their rabbis and scholars through Israeli media. The Israeli spokesman, Nachman Abramovic demonized Palestinian children stating ?They may look young to you, but these people are terrorists at heart. Don?t look at their deceptively innocent faces, try to think of the demons inside each of them ? I am absolutely certain these people would grow to be evil terrorists if we allowed them to grow? would you allow them to grow to kill your children or finish them off right now? ? honost and moral people ought to differentiate between true humans and human animals. We do kill human animals and we do so unapologetically. Besides who in the West is in a position to lecture us on killing human animals.. After all, whose hands are clean?? Human animal mentioned by Abramovic refers to the Judaic religious belief that Jews are Gods chosen people; the elite and the pure-blooded, while all others (non-Jews, Goyims, gentiles) are animal souls incarnated into human bodies to serve the Jews. Killing a human animal is just a sport like hunting deer or birds. http://pakalert. wordpress. com/2009/ 02/02/israeli- spokesman- says-we-control- stupid-americans / ? ? http://img136. imageshack. us/img136/ 6105/95784899ps1 .jpg __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar International Human Rights Organisation (IHRO), of the Indian subcontinent, is a NGO, with national focus and overseas lobby network. It agitates both in India and internationally. MARKETPLACE >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity ?65 New Members ?2 New LinksVisit Your Group Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. .. __,_._,___ Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 13 13:16:09 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:16:09 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Down the Rabbit Hole by Sharon Astyk Message-ID: <009801c98e17$eb3b16c0$c1b14440$@net> -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:08 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Down the Rabbit Hole by Sharon Astyk (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Published Feb 11 2009 http://www.energybulletin.net/node/48047 Down the Rabbit Hole by Sharon Astyk "It was much pleasanter at home, when one wasn't always growing larger and smaller, and being ordered about by mice and rabbits." - Alice in Wonderland Rod Dreher has a fascinating observation over at his blog. He talks about watching an interview on CNBC with Taleb and Roubini: "Both men are notorious bears, and called the current crash long in advance. Both, CNBC tells us, were the hottest tickets at the recent Davos gathering. CNBC called them in to discuss the crisis. Roubini and Taleb were both trying to make their case for why what's wrong with the economy is radical, is fundamental, goes to the very base of all our economic assumptions. The CNBC twits just wanted stock tips and investing advice." The more I think about his point, the more I think that it epitomizes something fundamental about the intellectual shift we have to make - and about how hard it is to make it. Moreover, it caused me to think about how hard it will be to unmake that shift. I commented on the piece at Rod's blog, and said, "I think the biggest problem is that people have been told that investing is a form of saving - *the* form of saving, in fact. And they believe it - even when their "savings" are being ripped out of their hands. So the problem, through that lens, must be investing in the wrong things, rather than the whole fact that what you put into the markets should be what you can afford to lose, not what you depend on for basic things. Add to that the fact that the society has transformed basic things like security in old age and education into things that can only be achieved through fake saving (investing) in a market that goes up, rather than things ordinary people could have, and it is no wonder that people who live in this never-never land can't grasp that it is a world of myth. That is, they know they are not going to be able to eat during retirement or send their kids to college on their income or on regular savings. But they haven't yet grasped that the situation has changed radically and the choices are now - change the system or accept that a college education and independent retirement are no longer choices for most of us." I wanted to say more about this, though, because I think that while this does show where we're not yet, it also gives us a glimpse of where we are a going, a change as radical as falling into Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass. Here is what Taleb and Roubini are telling us with their answer that they keep their money in cash - roughly translated this means "We expect the markets to decline still more. We expect to lose anything we put into the markets. We believe that money is safer in holes in the backyard than in the stock market." Here is what people who kept asking questions about college and retirement savings were saying, in translation: "We're terrified to take our money out of the markets, and we're terrified to leave it in. We depend on the "fake saving" message of investment for basic things like food, housing, health care and education. We know we have no way of insuring food in the pantry when we are old, or that our children will get an education without it, and we're not yet ready to admit that our hope of those things is already lost, and thus, cut our losses. We desperately need the market to go up, so we are in profound denial about what you are saying. We have no alternate plan, and our government has no alternate plan. If what you say is true, we face utter disaster. Please tell me that there's a way to make that not happen." And they are right. Both sides of the discussion are right. Without infinite growth, the hopes of an independent retirement were doomed - everyone was told they'd need half a million dollars or more to live on in retirement? What was the likelihood of that money being saved over the course of 35 working years out a 50K per year salary? Hmmm.. Four years at a State University costs $50,000 - a young family with two kids, who began saving at birth - what was the odds they were going to be able to pay for college without the markets? None. That is, it isn't just that people bought the mantra of fake saving, it was that they knew that this mantra was their only hope and clung to it as people being swept away in a current cling to anything in reach. And thus, most of us got into the stock market somehow. In fact, we often didn't have any choice - our pensions, our health insurance funds, our mortgages were invested without our consent. Our companies matched not our savings, but our 401K contributions. And all of this meant that the markets had an enormous amount of the average person's money to play with. This enforced participation meant that the growth cycle had a feedback loop going - more people had to play, which meant more pay. Now we're into negative loops. We were lied to, and we were betrayed, and most of us will never see our money again. And that leads to an even more important corrollary point - it will be a very long time before our society sees this level of investment again. Think about it. I'm 35, and my friends in their 40s and early 50s are often already caring for or concerned about aging parents that depend heavily on their investments. Many have lost nearly half of their money already, but haven't pulled out of the markets because they have been told that this would hurt them, that it is a bad idea, and because they desperately need to believe that they someday will be able to retire. They can't bring themselves to accept that the money they have now may well be as well as they can do, because it will not support the future they've envisioned for themselves. So they leave it in. Many economists have estimated the bottom - quite a few have estimated it at Dow 4000 or so, while others are optimistic. But let's assume that the most optimistic estimates are wrong, and that much more of the money is going to disappear. It took *30* years for the Dow to reach the same levels that it hit in 1929 - the recovery was not quick, and there's really no certainty that we'd recover quickly either. So millions of baby boomers are facing disaster - either extra years of work, or poverty in old age. And they are going to be angry and betrayed - none of them imagined their later years to be straitened and struggling. They did what they were told. And eventually, they will take what is left of their money out of the markets and salvage what they can - and they won't put it back. They won't be able to afford to risk what little they have. Shift down half a generation or a whole one, to my peers, and those slightly older and younger. As we watch our parents struggle, how many of us are going to trust in the stock market for our own retirement? As we explain to our kids why they may not get to go to college, are we going to put our limited funds there? Universal investmen tis over - and we will remember our whole lives what the dangers of speculation are. I've never met a peer of mine who expected to collect social security, and I don't think that in 10 years, I'll meet one who expects to derive money from a 401K. The 20 and 30 year olds buried under massive student loans, the 19 year olds who will have to drop out because the college fund isn't there - they will remember, inscribed on their chests where their vision of their future lay, that investment is not safe, it is not secure, it is not a way to ensure the future, but a way to betray it. It took 30 years for the stock market levels to rise back up to the adjusted equivalents of the Dow in 1929 - in part, because it took 30 years for the people who were children in the Depression, and on whom the fear of banks and markets did not imprint, to grow up and tentatively step back into them. It took 50 years, until the 1980s, to get levels of participation in the markets up to approximate the 1920s - until a generation of children who could not remember the Depression, and had only known growth had grown up. It was only after that that ideas like giving people their safety nets and letting the gamble in the markets with them came up - and anyone want to bet how long before the next time Social Security privatization comes to the table? Let's assume that peak oil and climate change simply aren't that big a deal (for the record, I assume y'all know that they are). Even without these ecological limits, the idea that the markets will rebound in the long term is probably dubious - because market participation depends on people who believe the "investing is savings" mantra. And people who have seen it shown to be false will not believe it - you have to wait until a new generation of people, more gullible because they have not seen, arises. And that means that even if we don't face energy constraints (we do) and ecological constraints (we definitely do), we face capital restraints - much of our current infrastructure, the way of our way of life, was built with other people's money, invested in the stock market. Who will choose to give their money to corporations to spend? Who will choose to see their health care, housing and education dollars gambled? And that means that our long term recovery prospects must include the reality that the "investing is savings" mantra has been proved to be a lie, and it will be 20 years or more before anyone will come buying that lie again. Now mixed in with energy and ecological constraints, I think the constraints in investment capital do mean that we must - I don't mean should, but must, make our plans for the future very carefully, that we must choose now where to put our limited resources and energies, because they may well turn out to be more limited than we thought. Down the rabbit hole we go - and it isn't very clear what size we'll be when we stop growing. From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 13 17:19:53 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:19:53 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: one vote short...? Message-ID: <00ef01c98e39$fa101d90$ee3058b0$@net> There appears to be something drastically wrong here as this is dated Feb. 6, and talks about a bill being sent to President Bush for signing. I just received it and copied the text after bringing it up from the link sent by Nance which includes the advertising posted below the article. m r From: Nance ~ [mailto:planetnews8 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: one vote short...? I'm sure there's soon to be arm twisting... N. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/senate-stimulus-plan-falls-one/story.a spx?guid=%7B3FBAE7A1-C1AF-4795-B546-3776A1D634BF%7D Senate stimulus plan falls one vote short Despite backing of 59 senators, $158 billion plan fails By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch Last update: 6:37 p.m. EST Feb. 6, 2008 http://i.mktw.net/mw3/community/images/btns/icons/site/comments.pngComments: 45 WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A $158 billion plan to stimulate economic growth failed in the Senate late Wednesday on a 58-41 procedural vote, despite support from a majority of senators. The bill needed 60 votes to be considered under Senate rules. At the last minute, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid switched his vote to no, giving him to right to ask for another vote. The vote was largely on party lines, with all 49 Democrats and two independents joining with eight of 49 Republicans in voting for it. Barring some kind of deal to win one more vote, the Senate will now turn to the House-approved version of the economic stimulus plan, which includes $600 to $1,200 tax rebate checks for 117 million households as well as tax breaks for business investments at a cost of $146 billion. President Bush had urged the Senate to pass the House plan so he could quickly sign the legislation. Lawmakers are trying to meet a self-imposed deadline of Feb. 15 to send the bill to Bush. The House plan was negotiated between the White House and Democratic and Republican leaders in the House without any input from the Senate. "If we do it quickly, the people will be astonished," said Republican leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., who led his party to once again frustrate the efforts of the Democratic majority. The Internal Revenue Service has indicated it won't be able to send out rebate checks until after the April 15 tax deadline. Sending out all the checks could take about three months. "This is a bipartisan package," said Reid, adding that the Senate took the House plan and made it better. "It's smart, targeted and effective." The defeated Senate plan, sponsored by Sens. Max Baucus, D-Mont., and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, would have sent slightly smaller checks of $500 to $1,000 to about 22 million more people than the House plan, including retirees and disabled people. More upper-income Americans would have received checks under the Senate plan. The defeated Senate plan also included an extension of unemployment benefits beyond six months, and it included an extension of several tax credits for using renewable energy. The Senate plan would have also allowed municipalities to issue tax-exempt bonds to help refinance subprime mortgages. The extension of unemployment benefits was judged by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to be among the most effective ways to stimulate the economy. Business tax breaks, by contrast, were given low marks as stimulus. Both plans would give money to workers who don't make enough to have income tax liability, but who do pay payroll taxes. End of Story Rex Nutting is Washington bureau chief of MarketWatch. -- -- www.rejenx.com/SelectYourMembership.aspx ID 4282 - Holy Tea Cleanse www.prosperitea.com Whole Wellness Club (click upper right corner) - LIBERTY in Our Lifetime! www.PlanetaryRepublic.com www.CampaignForLiberty.com - Nancy and Earle...Planetnews 949-200-7335 land 800-889-7372 toll-free -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 471 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 49 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maryrose333 at att.net Fri Feb 13 17:19:53 2009 From: maryrose333 at att.net (mary rose) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:19:53 -0800 Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Don't Fix Wall Street, Replace It Message-ID: <00f501c98e39$fd93c610$f8bb5230$@net> Here David Korten rises up to represent the thoughts of the Cultural Creatives/Blessed Unrest movement on the current situation, as he says: "Trying to solve the crisis with the same tools that caused it is the definition of insanity." We need to ensure that this message gets heard, and not drowned out by the government-organized movement controlled by the bankers for which Barak Obama is but a tool. m r ----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:45 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Don't Fix Wall Street, Replace It (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Friday, February 13, 2009 by YES! Magazine Don't Fix Wall Street, Replace It Why not an economy of real wealth? http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?id=3236 by David Korten The current economic debate centers on how best to revive our existing economic system through some combination of a Wall Street bailout and a job-creating economic stimulus package. That amounts to trying to revive an economic system that has failed in every dimension: financial, social, and environmental. Rather than prop up a failed system, we should use the current financial crisis as the opportunity to create a system that works. Trying to solve the crisis with the same tools that caused it is the definition of insanity. As individuals, we humans appear to be an intelligent species. Collectively, however, our behavior ranges from supremely wise to suicidal. Our current collective economic insanity is the product of an illusion-a belief, cultivated by the prevailing economic orthodoxy, that money is wealth and that making money is the equivalent of creating wealth. Money is merely an accounting chit with no intrinsic value-it is useless until we exchange it for something of real value. Wall Street's specialty is creating money for rich people without the exertion of producing anything of corresponding real value. They increase their claims against real wealth without increasing the supply of goods, making it harder for the rest of us to meet our needs. Real wealth is, first of all, the tangible things that support life-food, shelter, clothing. Of course, the most valuable forms of real wealth are those that are beyond price: love; a healthy, happy child; a job that provides a sense of self-worth and contribution; membership in a strong, caring community; a healthy vibrant natural environment; peace. Our Wall-Street-driven economic system makes fantastic amounts of money and actively destroys all these many forms of real wealth. We have been in thrall to a pervasive cultural story, continuously reinforced by academics, government officials, and corporate media, which led us to believe our economy was functioning splendidly even when it was quite literally killing us. You have heard this story many times: "Economic growth, as measured by Gross Domestic Product, creates the wealth needed to provide material abundance for all, increase human happiness, end poverty, and heal the environment. The faster we consume, the faster the economy grows and the wealthier we become as the rising tide lifts all boats." The logical conclusion from this story is that the faster we convert useful resources to toxic garbage, the richer we are. The only true beneficiaries of this obviously stupid idea are a few very rich people who reap financial gains from every economic transaction-whether the transaction cures a disease or clearcuts a rainforest. It is a system that deifies money and dilutes wealth. In contrast, the Main Street economy is comprised of local businesses and working people who produce real goods and services to meet the real wealth needs of their communities. It has been battered and tattered by the predatory intrusions of Wall Street corporations, but it is the logical foundation on which to build a new, real wealth economy of green jobs and green manufacturing, responsible community-oriented businesses, and sound environmental practices. Let Wall Street corporations and their phantom wealth machine slip into the abyss of their own making. Devote our public resources to building and strengthening Main Street businesses and financial institutions devoted to creating real wealth in service to their local communities. David Korten's new book, An Agenda for a New Economy: From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth, to be published by Berrett-Koehler, Feb 2009. This extract forms part of the YES! series, Path to a New Economy. An earlier version of this chapter first appeared as part of David's article in Tikkun, Nov/Dec 2008. David Korten is the author of the international bestseller When Corporations Rule the World and The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth Community. He is co-founder and board chair of YES! Magazine, and a board member of the Business Alliance for Local Living Economies. From jacklancaster at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 10 15:17:22 2009 From: jacklancaster at sbcglobal.net (Jack Lancaster) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:17:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GJM] Destruction Of Earth Is The End Of Man In-Reply-To: <31f677a30902092337s48d049ack47dcfa8320fe9efd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <782402.48662.qm@web80007.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance wrote: From: Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance Subject: [GJM] Fwd: A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:37 PM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion & Governance Date: Feb 10, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Fwd: [GJM] A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The??Best New Idea for 2009 To: RSEE at ipu.ru Cc: michael.ellis at ozemail.com.au Dear Pavel Kasyanov, ? I would like to inform about this mail and request you to recall that we interacted on the occassion of Johansseburg Summit working for an alternative draft with Michael Ellis. I have started this centre. I like to collaborate on matters of mutual concern. ? I would like to share some of the content generated by CEASIG for the benifit of RSEE. ? With warmest regards ? Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: mary rose Date: Feb 10, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [GJM] A MUST READ _ FW: Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice , FixGov at yahoogroups.com To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:09 AM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 (To change your settings or unsubscribe please go to http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/globalnetnews-summary) Deep Green: Ecological Economics - The Best New Idea for 2009 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/deep-green In the future, economists will return to Earth The year 2009 will witness a tsunami of economic appeals to fix, as disgraced Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan put it, the 'flaw' in their thinking. Most will get it wrong. The proposals for bailouts, regulations, and government spending sprees all share one tragic flaw: They assume no physical or biological limits to human growth. Most economists cling to an 18th century mechanical universe that conjured an 'invisible hand' of God, which would allegedly convert private greed into public utopia. Indeed, a few got rich but the meek inherit an Earth featuring child slavery, sweatshops, a billion starving people, toxic garbage heaps, dead rivers, exhausted aquifers, disappearing forests, depleted energy stores, lopped-off mountain tops, acid seas, melting glaciers, and an atmosphere heating up like a flamb?. Meanwhile, a rigorous sub-culture of scientists and economists have been working to free economics from its eighteenth century quagmire by reconciling human enterprise with the laws of physics, biology, and ecology. Their time has come. This year, 2009, will signal the birth of a genuinely innovative economics that will eventually displace the patchwork rationalisations for greed. The new ecological accounting is variously called 'dynamic equilibrium', 'steady-state' or 'biophysical' economics. What about technology? Ignoring nature remains the tragic conceit of conventional economists, who presume we can grow our economies forever without regard to quantities of materials, energy, and pollution. Biophysical economics, on the other hand, acknowledges that there exist no cases in nature of unlimited growth. Dr. Albert Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Colorado University, urges economists to learn the laws of nature. Non-material values - creativity, dreams, love - may expand without limit, but materials and energy in the real world remain subject to the requirements of thermodynamics and biology. "Growth in population or rates of consumption cannot be sustained. Smart growth is better than dumb growth," says Bartlett, "but both destroy the environment." What about technology? Some economists imagine that computer chips or nanotechnology will save us from the laws of nature, but every technical efficiency in history has resulted in more consumption of energy and resources, not less. Remember when computers were going to save paper? That never happened. Computers increased paper consumption from about 50 million tonnes annually in 1950 to 250 million tonnes today. Meanwhile, we lost 600 million hectares of forest. Nor is the internet a celestial realm where ideas are exchanged for 'free'. Computers require copper, silicon, oil, toxic chemicals, massive energy for server networks, and garbage heaps for techno-trash. In every industrialised nation, energy and material consumption is increasing, not decreasing. Technology is not energy. It costs energy. Malthus revisited In the 1970s, World Bank economist Herman Daly wrote Steady-State Economics to outline the future of ecological economics. Daly makes a distinction between 'sustainable growth', which is 'impossible', and 'sustainable development', which is natural. "The larger system is the biosphere and the subsystem is the human economy," says Daly. "We can develop qualitatively, but we cannot grow beyond the biosphere's limits." A UK commission chaired by Sir Nicholas Stern called global warming 'the greatest market failure ever seen'. Pavan Sukhdev, economist for Deutschbank, estimates that forest destruction erases $2.5 trillion in 'natural capital' annually. Mark Anielski, an economist in Edmonton, estimates that 'ecological services' from Canada's boreal forests - carbon capture, water filtration - are worth about $93 billion per year. In the 19th century, Thomas Malthus and John Stuart Mill introduced ecological economics, warning that human expansion would eventually meet natural limits. Industrialists have mocked Malthus and ignored Mill for two centuries, but the evidence now suggests that the discovery of petroleum only postponed the effects. Many economists now recognise that Malthus and Mill were essentially correct. A 2008 Goldman-Sachs report about commodity shortages stated, "we see parallels with Malthusian economics." Popular investment advisor, James Dines, told a New York Investment Conference in May that food and fuel scarcities are a "result of a Malthusian planetary limit." Limits to growth are real," says Anita M. Burke, former Shell Oil and B.C. Hydro sustainability advisor. "We must embrace adaptation strategies that create new ways of being in relationship to each other and the planet. The solutions offered by growth economics are inadequate. These will be replaced by an economics that accepts the limits and laws of nature." Biophysical Economics "Energy used by the economy is a proxy of the amount of real work done in our economy," says Charles A. Hall, at the State University of New York. In the 1980s, Hall and others hypothesised, "Over time, the Dow Jones should snake about the real amount of work." Twenty years later, a century's market and energy data shows that whenever the Dow Jones Industrial Average spikes faster than US energy consumption, it crashes: 1929, 1970s, the dot.com bubble, and now with the mortgage collapse. World oil production plateaued in 2005, and as the price of oil rose from $35/barrel in 2004 to $147 in 2008, it added a $3.5 trillion annual cost to human civilisation. "That reduced discretionary income," says Hall. "The domino that led to a decline in aggregate demand, particularly for suburban real estate." Jeff Rubin, Chief Economist at CIBC World Markets, agrees: "Oil shocks create global recessions." A popular Wall Street publication, The Corporate Examiner, is planning a special edition this year on 'the end of faith-based economics', with an article by Hall and his colleagues. In October, Hall convened the first International Conference on Biophysical Economics in Syracuse, New York, and will publish a book this year. "Since economics is about the production and transfer of physical things or services that require energy," says Hall, "it is a biophysical science, not a social science." Robert Costanza, Director of the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics at the University of Vermont, will launch two periodicals this year: an annual academic anthology, The Year in Ecological Economics, and a bimonthly magazine, Solutions, for technical and popular articles about ecology and economics. "To repair our economic system," explains editor Ida Kubiszewski, we must realise that "the mounting environmental and social problems we face are systemic. Articles in Solutions will employ whole-systems thinking." The editorial board includes pioneers of ecological economics - Herman Daly, Ernest Collenbach, and Vancouver's Bill Rees, who developed 'ecological footprint' analysis at the University of British Columbia. Rees calculates that human consumption of the biosphere is 'already 30 per cent into overshoot', consuming more than the ecosystem can replenish. "We must account for the environment," says Rees, "reduce total consumption, and then address equitable distribution." "We are dying of consumption," says Peter Dauvergne, sustainability advisor at UBC and author of The Shadows of Consumption. "The unequal globalisation of the costs of consumption is putting ecosystems and billions of people at risk." To honestly achieve a "sustainable" economy, humanity must step through a paradigm shift, as profound as the transition in the sixteenth century when Copernicus showed that the Earth is not the centre of the universe. Likewise, ecology teaches us that humanity is not the centre of life on the planet. Just as the Pope's henchmen refused to look through Galileo's telescope, some economists avoid looking out the window to see what keeps humanity alive: photosynthesis, precious materials, and concentrated energy. "Sooner or later," as ecologist David Abram puts it, "technological civilisation must accept the invitation of gravity and settle back into the rhythms of a more-than-human Earth." In the 21st century, human enterprise has reached the scale of the planet. We have to account for ourselves on nature's balance sheet. This is biophysical economics. It appears inevitable. Biophysical culture is what we will make of it. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -- Endeavouring for ecological safety ,social inclusion and distributive justice for the renewable resource based livelihoods and habitats, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governace (CEASIG) , an initiative of Labour League Foundation and Sufi Trust , Delhi aims for socially inclusive and ecologically safe future for all through building capacities in ecological audit, ecologically safe networking ,advocacy, interfaith dailogue??& other related domains for??multiplying personal, community , governmental and corporate actions for ecologically safe education, ecolgical audit and socially inclusive governance best practices -- Endeavouring for ecological safety ,social inclusion and distributive justice for the renewable resource based livelihoods and habitats, Centre For Ecological Audit, Social Inclusion and Governace (CEASIG) , an initiative of Labour League Foundation and Sufi Trust , Delhi aims for socially inclusive and ecologically safe future for all through building capacities in ecological audit, ecologically safe networking ,advocacy, interfaith dailogue??& other related domains for??multiplying personal, community , governmental and corporate actions for ecologically safe education, ecolgical audit and socially inclusive governance best practices _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacklancaster at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 10 15:28:31 2009 From: jacklancaster at sbcglobal.net (Jack Lancaster) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:28:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GJM] Here Is A Jew Who Tells The Truth In-Reply-To: <503a10ac0902081126w296f3c48h4a4cc223000e27d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6294.80266.qm@web80015.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I ?love any man or woman who is helpful To man or woman. I do not like manor woman who cause trouble for man or woman...? \ www.jackaikenlancaster.4t.com --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Dr. Rima Laibow wrote: From: Dr. Rima Laibow Subject: Re: [GJM] everything you wanted to know about Israel and how it all started.... To: "Stephanie Sutton" Date: S