[GJM] Fw: [FixGov] Re: [Atheists] Digest Number 2249

[mary rose]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill Ellis 
To: atheists at yahoogroups.com 
Cc: FixGov FixGov 
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:48 AM
Subject: [FixGov] Re: [Atheists] Digest Number 2249


 Bill, thank you for coming out of hibernation and contributing to the Co-learner's list as you repost this from another list.  Bill Ellis, for those not familiar with him is now 88 and writing a book entitled: The GAIAN Theory.  I'm going to drop a  comnent or two into this dialogue. 

BE:
Thomas, you and I see life in different ways. Yours is too 
pessimistic for me. I won't counter all of your points but add a couple of comments below just to help you see life more optimistically (-:
 TR:   diplomacy requires:
 a) Rational thought processes by all parties.


BE: I don't think so. A lot of people are diplomatic just to be polite,
Others to prevent or end conflict. Others out of love.
It is seldom rational.

 TR:  b) Relatively equal power dynamics among all parties.
BE: I hope this isn't so. We should be as diplomatic to the poor and 
downtrodden as we are the the powerful and elite. Power does nothing for diplomacy. Bush and the American imperialism are good examples. They have ruined America's diplomatic standing.

 TR:
 Your "Gaian hypothesis" is more likely to work under optimal 
 conditions,


BE: The Gaian hypothesis (now the Gaian theory) is a theory of science.
Like all science it provieds either a valid model of reality, or false. 
The theory of gravitation or theory of electromagnetism do not work only "under optimal contitions." Either they work or they don't. To date the Gaian theory explains why the oxygen in the air, the temperature of the Earth, the salt in the ocean, and other qualities of the Earth stay within limits that allow life on Earth. In my speculations I see this unity of Gaia (The Earth and all of its life forms) as relevant to our understanding of the Cosmos and our place in it.

mr:  In my book, i am working from the same perspective -- that of energy -- the four forces left after the Big Bang and how we are made from the same forces.  Dr. Lawrence Fagg's book:  Electromagnetism and the Sacred is most enlightening.  He puts God into the picture, but if one takes God out of the picture  by reading without Him, one gets the same affect.  I found the same to be true of Dr. Andrew Newburg's work recorded in his books:  "Why God Won't Go Away" and "Why We Believe What We Believe" written with Dr. Mark R. Waldman.   Dr. Newberg, M.D., set up brain scans for both meditating Buddist monks and Catholic Nuns in deep prayer to see if there was any diffeence in their brain scans and there was none.  But what the tests revealed was more action in the part of the brain that relates to where the "self" leaves off and "x" begins.  And, Dr. Newberg has tried to make the case that "X" is where God begins.  However after studying the work of Dr. Valerie V. Hunt and others in subtle energy vibrations, his theory IMO does not hold water.  What I perceived was that was what he wanted to believe and so that was his perception of the tests, and the same holds true for Fagg's findings as well as they are both devout Christians.   So, as you say here:  "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." 
 

TR:  True, no one wakes up and ,thinks "What evil can I do"; however,
 they do wake up and think "how can I achieve or maintain dominance 
 over others"


BE:  Yes ! dominance over others is the key to EuroAmerican cultures.
Self-interest, competition and materialism define what our cultures
accept as the cultural norm. The corporate agenda accepts domination 
and competition as laws of nature. And believe it is necessary for the 
progress of our, or any, culture. Corporate greed is a law of nature, in those 
minds. It is certainly the rule of law and has been used many times to "prove" that making money is the right of all, regardless of the social value.
 

TR:   "Evil" may not be [your] preferred shorthand for the acts of Hitler,
 McVeigh, Kascynski, Bundy, Atta, Wuornos, or Pol Pot. But whatever
 you call it, their minds were not focused on trying to live in  mutually supportive, peaceful ways with the rest of humankind; and I  doubt that any amount of your understanding and diplomacy would have  dissuaded them.

mr:  From my perspective, the above-referenced people have brains that are out of "coherence."  That is, the subtle energy vibrations of their brains are in a state of chaos  and unable to process information in a "normal" manner.  And, there are people like Dr. V. Vernon Woolf, who are very adept in aiding people, from drug addicts to murderers and evryone in between,   to adjust their frequencies and bring their system back into a state of coherence.   What Dr. Woolf really does is to walk into consciousness with someone who seeks his assistance and "holds the (energy) field (coherent) so that they may easily transform the field (reprogram the sub-conscious mind) so that it is functioning normally.   Depending upon how discoherent the energy field is, transformation can be accomplished in a few hours or a few days.       

BE:  Yes it IS [my] short hand for "evil." But it may not be theirs.
You make my point. Evil is in the eye of the beholder. Many of us 
believe in the acts you list as being among our "evils." But even those you 
list believed that what they did was for the "good." You could have listed 
the teen suicides, the school shooters, the killers of abortionists, the 
Bible thumpers, the street demonstrators, Reverand Wright, Dick Cheney, and George Bush among [your] evils. Many would agree with you.

I prefer to think of them as misinformed. The diplomatic approach is 
to try to understand them. Even the most ardent Islamic or Christian 
fundamentalists think they are right and doing good.

mr:  I do believe in many instances that "in-formation" has a lot do do with it.  And, as we have discussed previously, that may be as basic as the person  being either left- brain or right-brain dominant which is a determinant of what kind of information is received.  The optimum brain configuration, of course, is holographic/holodynamic in nature because both lobes of the brain then are receiving the information. But the dominance emphasizes performance in different skills dependent upon which side of the brain is dominant; however, both sides perform all the skills.  Information gained from both Roger Sperry and Carla Hannaford.    

So, our belief system has much to do with our biology and how we are wired. What science knows today is that the human body is wired as both a transeiving and receiving station.  And, it is set up to receive and transmit different frequency vibrations.  Each individual has their own "signatory" frequency vibration which they have the ability to change at any time using either the power of their own mind to do so, or employing other devices, e.g., chanting of priests, drumbeat, music, and new electronic devices used to accomplish brain entrainment. A good beginner's book on this is: "Infinite Mind" by Dr. Valerie V. Hunt. 

With love and in gratitude, Bill, for all that you do and all that we do together. 

mary rose   .     

IMHO
Bill Ellis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGaianParadigm/files/



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