[GJM] Fw: Update from a Co-learner's list member on: Eden - A Sustainable Community from Bill Ellis
mary rose
maryrose333 at att.net
Mon Jul 14 12:38:50 MDT 2008
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: mary rose
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Eden - A Sustainable Community from Bill Ellis
Hi M,
If you post any of the below, please leave my name off, ok?
Don't know if you remembered that I gave you some info on this Eden website before, but will do so again.
It is Buyer Beware for this guy, T. He has fixated on an unattainable piece of land owned by a family who has unequivacally said they do not want to sell or to have any part in T's use of their land. Of course, that is not to say it will never come to pass as T envisions, but I think not in our lifetimes.
I attended a few of his meetings and met him. I didn't come away confident that he would be able to do what his grand website plans outline. There are no others involved with him in planning as far as I could see about 5 years ago when I was on his mailing list and went to meet him. The others at the meetings were very skeptical and discouraged also. (The meetings were at a picnic table in front of a grocery store in Glen Ellen.)
He has had this vision for about 20 or so years, it has not gone anywhere. It would be interesting to find out how many people have actually sent him money or put it into an escrow account that he was promoting 5 years ago.
My attitude around this is a little bitter as I was really taken about the idea until I learned the above.
Thanks,
Dear "X" - Am forwarding this to the list and have omitted your name as requested. While the name "Eden" did ring a little bell, I had quite forgotten that you had sent a warning on this previously. Thanks for the update again. I, too wonder how many people have put up money for what appears, from your information, to be a "scam".
The statistics for the success rate of "intentional communities" is about 10% with a 90% failure rate. But this is not to say that these types of communities are a bad idea in and of themselves. Its the consciousness of the people who become involved in them. The Running Rabbit Community has been going for quite a few years now. Google for it, my server just went down. But here is a book that provides some informaton on what to look for in researching a community of this type. CREATING A LIFE TOGETHER: http://www.dianaleafechristian.org/creating.html Richard Heinberg, Bill Mollison, and Hazel Henderson are a few people interviewed for the book.
with love and in gratitude for staying on top of this and sending out the warning note.
mary rose
----- Original Message -----
From: mary rose
To: FixGov at yahoogroups.com ; Discussion Forum for Global Justice
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: Eden - A Sustainable Community from Bill Ellis
Thank you Bill,
This is a wonderful post because it begins to show just how
large the sustainable movement is -- check out all the links
on the left as you scroll down through this site as they lead
to other projects and extensions of this project showing how
many people are involved. I came across the names of both
Janaia Donaldson as she did a couple interviews with people
on the Peak TV webcast that she and Robin are doing. And,
as well a couple videos by Richard Heinberg. .
A few diverse thoughts that struck me as I viewed this site
were 1) How much "stuff" people had accumulated in their
homes, and in this context: "Are we scaling back far enough?
or, is this just a repeat of life as we know it now with maybe
solar energy added along with doing some organic gardening.?
Just making a token gesture toward change?
I was really looking at how much wood was still being used to
build a straw bale house, and at the plastic being used as conduit,
etc. Things that we need to be replacing. There is such a need to
"reforest" and that as well means "stop using wood" unless it is
recycled. And we simply need to find something else to replace
all the plastic we are manufacturing today.
And, then I thought about the other kind of more high tech"sustainable
living creations that others envision. For example the "Green" community
we viewed a couple weeks ago that was featured as a coming attraction in
Las Vegas, along with the Remediation Park concept of the Global
Alliance Foundation which would produce clean energy while mining the
world's waste dumps and cleaning up the environment in many ways, while
at the same time creating many "green" products from the recycled materials
retrieved from the dumps. While I am not privy to all of the products that
could be produced, I do know that the capacitor battery is in advanced stages
of development, that this group is also working on advanced auto design that
would use this capacitor battery. And, somehow the car is being designed
to be automatically guided on aspecial type of roadway system that would
alleviate travel congestion while at the same time reducing dramatically the
potential for accidents.
I do believe that the "super plasmic arc field generator" is a must do as it
does three critical things: 1) recycles waste, can detoxify the environment,
e.g., both on oceans and on land, and produces clean energy.
As for Zero Point or "free" energy, what is keeping it off of the market is
purely political IMHO, as those with vested interests in oil, gas, coal,
nuclear, and even solar and wind power, want to either squeeze every
penny of profit out of their product, or ensure that they regain their
investment dollar as in the case of nuclear with the Saudi's, and probably
in the case of solar power as well, although I do not know who the big
investors are in either solar or wind power.
Whatever the case may be, when a product is fully developed and ready
to be distributed in the market place, past experience demonstrates that
it takes between 20 - 30 years to get a wide enough distribution to make
a difference. However, since much of the "new tech" may be done through
nanotechnology, it may not take that long for distribution to take place.
But, since we should have had alternative power designed and in the
pipeline yesterday, and did not due to the influence of oil, gas, coal and
nuclear interests, there is going to be a dramatic lag time as the changeover
from now until the non-renewable fossil fuels, along with the interim solar,
wind, etc., are phased out and Zero Point Energy is phased in. That is, if
we make it through the interim period without blowing ourselves up in the fight
over "what is best".
One of the things we need to do is to look back on the tumultous time of the
beginning of the industrial age.and the end of the agricultural age. Many
fortunes were made and lost as this change took place. For instance, look at
how many car companies came into being and went under before the "big three"
finally emerged victorious. And, look at what is happening to the big three
now as new technology emerges and replaces what is now "the car of yesteryear."
And, if it were only the end of cheap oil that we are facing and that is demanding
change, perhaps things would not be quite so uncertain and tumultous. But here
we are at the same time facing global climate change and not knowing exactly
what to expect when, where, how, and to what extent the damage from it will
be. We really have no idea if the communities we erect today will be able to
meet the demands of environmental change 10, 5, or even 2 years from now.
And, as a global society, we are totally unprepared to handle this emergency.
We can only fly by the seat of our pants, feeling our way along and hoping for
the best outcome possible. Today's world demands that we absolutely be
prepared to adapt to "fast change". We literally need to be prepared to "turn
on a dime," and nothing less than the future of the human family is at stake.
And, in this climate, we must put aside all concerns with money-making and
turn out attention to "what works best in the best interests of all of the human
family and the planet.
I'm also thinking about the people involved and their levels of education -- many
simply do not have the ability to understand what might be "appropriate"
technology and what might not since they have not been exposed to it. And
then we have thousands of people who have worked with NASA and in the
industries that have produced highly advanced technologies and are prepared
to now apply these to civilian use for the benefit of all concerned, but are
inhibited from doing so by those who lack the ability to understand. Thus we
get hung up in up in fear-based mania from those lacking in knowledge.
Overall, what I feel we are faced with is a lot of experimentation, but what we
need to do is experimentation in small quantities at the community level; not
involving the whole of a national or even a state society in such experiments
as to what works and what doesn't until the concept has been tested at the
community level and been proven safe to expand. How much further ahead
we would be if this had been applied in the instance of genetically-modified
foods. But now Pandora is out of the box and can't be easily put back in.
While we all have our preference for the kind of community we would be
comfortable living in due to our particular comfort level, what I feel we need to
do, and this includes me, is to be more open to new innovations -- as Einstein
said, we cannot solve problems at the same level at which they were created.
So, we need to be more open to things while at the same time asking the
inventors not to get carried beyond what can be controlled.
Since I really feel that this website deserves more than just a glance, I am not
going to post any more messages, unless they are related to this, for the next
couple of days. I have a couple projects hangingm and as well, the garden is now
beginning to produce eggplants, tomatoes and squash, and it is time to reseed
some things for a continuous supply the rest of the summer and into fall. The
birds and squirrels are taking more than their fair share also, and we need to
figure out how to control these critters without harming them.
with love and in gratitude Bill, for all that you do and all that we do together.
mary rose
We must be the change we wish to see in our lives. M. Gandhi
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Ellis
To: FixGov FixGov
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: [FixGov] Fwd: [Eden] Digest Number 807
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Eden-Project at yahoogroups.com
> Date: 10, July 2008 6:37:33 PM EDT
> To: Eden-Project at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Eden] Digest Number 807
> Reply-To: "No Reply"<notify-dg-Eden-Project at yahoogroups.com>
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Eden is not just another Ecovillage Community.
> From: sustcomm
>
>
> Message
> __________________________________________________________
> _
> 1. Eden is not just another Ecovillage Community.
> Posted by: "sustcomm" sustcomm at yahoo.com sustcomm
> Date: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:26 am ((PDT))
>
> Eden is not just another Ecovillage Community. Here we really do have
> a real vision to work with that goes far beyond the usual
> expectations. This has been put together by someone who really has
> considered the ins and outs.
>
> EcoVillage is about the creation of a sustainable Micro-Economy, not
> a last ditch effort to cling to the sinking ship of institutionalized
> dependency. Like in a forest, every Tree has to be able to make it on
> its own, which is not that hard to do when you have the support of
> all the other Trees.
>
> But for that to work, we will all have to learn, how to create our
> own ways of working within the natural flows, and that has a lot to
> do with the rightful exchanges of energies and resources, and the
> give and take, of living near a lake, in Ecovillage community, along
> with a lot of personally self created products and services, that may
> have been dreamed up in Truth, like this whole project, with a loving
> vision, of an Earth Restored and a World at Peace for all to share.
>
> We support things that work well both within the community and
> without the community, without needing to be propped up with a lot of
> empty place holder ethics of dominator culture, that you can always
> slide by on your very worst, for example, whic is just no longer
> true. We do all this with a keen eye on the Eco-Logical Footprints of
> all of our actions, and the impact of Eden upon the local community
> and the rest of the world, don't ya know.
>
> But much will be expected of those who wish to grow into True
> Edenites, who might hope to be respected and honored one day.
>
> We might even be expected to learn how to collaborate with T and some
> of these other highly imaginative people, on some very important new
> things, like not even having to worry about tapping into the free
> energy that T has suggested might be waiting there for those who are
> worthy of joining in with us, or recording our own unique forms of
> magical music and combining other sounds and images that could be
> used to gently dissolve the brain clot that is clogging up the flows
> in dead America right now.
>
> Some of the last of the best, who have been gathered together here,
> might even try to collaborate by creating new means of the
> cooperative marketing of handmade instruments and other items unique
> to this area which has its own magical spirit that we might like to
> become a strong voice for change within, in case you didn't think
> about it.
>
> But we do have to at least be able to learn the signal well enough to
> be able to show that we have learned the signal, before we can even
> begin to pretend that we now know the meaning of it all, just because
> we have learned how to memorize a few sounds.
>
> We must be able to repeat the signal here first, and run that back in
> to the central camp as it is, with no school boy embellishments,
> before we can begin to mess the whole thing up with all these heavily
> weighted opinions that do not have any place in this group, and that
> all come from the wrongful indoctrination empires of doom and gloom
> revisited, so a big part of this, is all about cleanliness and purity
> and integrity, and just plain getting rid of all that bad information
> that we have allowed ourselves to become inundated by, and all these
> empty headed political beliefs, which have little or no ecological
> application, anywhere in this particular universe, which has now been
> named Truth after the man who first discovered it. Everything from
> now on is going to be considered from an Ecological Perspective, as
> well as the womens perspective.
>
> First comes acceptance of all that T has said. Then we may be able to
> add something of a real and lasting value to the signal and that all
> has to be looked at and become integrated first until you have become
> recognized as an accepted source, who really can speak for this
> community.
>
> Our collective choices of job duties and responsibilities could be
> self selected in accordance with what people really do want to do,
> and maybe even with some consideration for not having too much
> competition at first, and especially while the work is going on, just
> to see who really is going to handle the real work and not just the
> imaginary work, of pretending to be something which is what they
> taught us all in school. We will all have to learn many new skills,
> like Universal Permaculture, and how to use something as simple as a
> solar home power system.
>
> If even "our very own Mr. T" does pretend sometimes, rather well, to
> know a little something about living off the grid, it may be because
> he has been living off the grid now, on nothing but Solar Energy, and
> Lightning Star Power, and the penetrating power of the wind through
> the trees, for well over 20 years now. What You Looking At?
>
> A simple and fairly inexpensive solar power system that I might
> recommend for instance, and could help you survive the end times,
> might consist of 6 - 160 Watt PV panels, One MX60 Outback Controller
> and 6 - L-16 H Deep Cycle batteries along with a nonda power center
> and a battery bank desulfator.
>
> This very simple system could start very small with only 2 panels
> maybe and then it can be expanded up to 6 later on as time and money
> permits, which is how we grow things in Eden. And the battery bank
> could be smaller, or larger, I will admit.
>
> This is the real deal. But we do have a lot of respect for all our
> good friends at Earthaven, and Emerald Earth, and all these other
> fine communities, who have started sometimes on a smaller scale but
> who are all welcome to learn from us as we plan to learn from them,
> as we have said many times before. But we do have boundaries and all
> must respect those boundaries, even when they are not too heavily
> marked out.
>
> Of course we always learn everything very quickly so never fear the
> transfer speeds in Eden are tremendous. All we can do is our very
> best and then we can all forget the rest.
>
> Don't be too slow to learn which way to go,
> Or you could be left with no row to hoe.
>
> And yes, we have worked out the financial considerations involved for
> maximal equitability. Many Thanks to Sky for donating $35. to the
> cause. There is a new page up dealing with all the larger numbers,
> which you might want to look through, in order to pick the one that
> resonates with you: - T
>
> http://edenvillage.net/17.htm
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (1)
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>
> http://edenvillage.net
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