[GJM] Replying to Peter Challen -- debt-free issuance and Tower Number Seven
Myro Ashenopolitus
new_economics at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 22 09:27:08 MST 2008
Rodney, again my replies are inserted [Reply].
Sincerely,
Myro
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Dear Myro,
Thanks for replying.
1. You are stating that the banks create repayable
money and also non-repayable money and the latter
comes about when the banks pay expenses/stockholder
dividends etc. May I ask if there is any limit to
this non-repayable (debt-free) creation?
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[Reply] I answered this the other day. Didn't you
read it? Individual banks are constrained by their
reserves. An individual bank that is too profligate
in creating money will lose reserves to its
competitors, and go out of business. There is no
limit for the banking system as a whole.
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And if I wrote to your Bernanke man or to the Governor
of the Bank of England, would they agree with you?
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[Reply] There would be no disagreement over the
mechanics.
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2. You do not accept the "debt virus thesis". OK,
that's your view -- but I suppose you will soon be
telling me that the impending financial collapse is in
no way due to the continual creation of more and more
debt.
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[Reply] It does have to do with debt, but the
fallacious "interest is the root of all evil"
hypothesis does not explain it.
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3. On compound interest (Nigerian example) you now
admit compound interest is involved and so it is no
longer necessary for me to report you to your
supervisor for having an obdurate attitude.
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[Reply] The Nigerians didn't service their debt.
Eventually, two-thirds of it was written off.
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Moreover, I am pleased to note that you make the point
that the interest only compounds when the repayment
schedule is in some way in default. This point tells
me you are obviously a young man with a responsible
attitude to debt and life. You will go far.
4. On interpretation of Islamic terms etc, it is not
that I close my mind to contrary views but that I am
on Islamic lists and the debates on the shades of what
is or is not riba are endless and, at some point, you
have to make a sensible judgment.
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[Reply] Except, as is evident by the various
conspiracy theories that you hold, is not sensible.
-
Maybe you would like to join IBFNET (the Islamic
Development Bank says it has over 5,500 members even
though the main webpage figure is lower), for example,
whereon you will see what I mean.
STOP PRESS! Today on IBF NET somebody is asking if
there is any information on the Islamic view on
seigniorage! Myro, this is a good chance to forward
your studies
5. On the Humber Bridge, the information I gave
speaks for itself.
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[Reply] And the conclusion you came to was fabricated
out of thin air, as I related in my last posting.
Didn't you read it? This predicatory statement of
yours is factually incorrect: "The original money was
lent, at interest, by the UK government, which had
borrowed the money at interest!" Most of the money
lent was actually collected from taxation. So your
conclusion is fallacious: "Thus, today, the National
Debt carries the burden and the UK public as a whole
(as opposed to the residents of Humberside) will be
eternally paying for the never-ending interest on the
Humber Bridge!" The interest that the bridge
authority pays the UK government is much greater than
the interest the UK government pays on its debt to the
public. The actuality is that the UK government is
receiving a stream of payments from toll revenues that
is in supplement to taxation, exactly as if the UK
government built the bridge directly, without going
through the intermediary of the bridge authority, and
charged tolls.
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6. I will not be sending you emails (sent to me)
which are private. I just say that I trust you, and
all other members of this list (and this boring
lecture applies to me as well) in future to do our
best to behave reasonably to each other (with latitude
for occasional minor lapses, of course).
7. 11th September, 2001 -- Tower Number Seven
Today is Tuesday and the day when you are able to see
Bill Ryan. Don't forget now -- the question is what
caused Tower Number Seven to collapse when no
aeroplane touched it and it was (I think) about two
hundred yards away from the two buildings which did
collapse. And how did they know in advance Number
Seven was going to collapse?
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[Reply] I've now had a discussion with Bill Ryan
about this. They didn't know that it was going to
collapse, but feared that it was in danger of
collapsing as a result of damage incurred, and fires
throughout the building, which is why they ordered the
evacuation of the building.
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And why is this matter continually brushed aside as of
no significance? And, of course, why didn't all the
other buildings in the area collapse as well when
they, too, were not touched?
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[Reply] This is an absurdity: "when they, too, were
not touched." In actual fact there was tremendous
damage to numerous buildings is the area. This is
from Internet sources:
"As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001,
debris hit 7 World Trade Center, causing heavy damage
to the south face of the building. The bottom portion
of the building's south face was heavily damaged from
debris, including: damage to the southwest corner from
the 8th to 18th floor, a large vertical gash on the
center-bottom extending at least ten floors, and other
damage as high as the 18th floor...After the North
Tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World
Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to
extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water
pressure hindered their efforts. A massive fire
burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors
of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the
east side of the building. During the afternoon, fire
was also seen on floors 6-10, 13-14, 19-22, and 29-30.
At approximately 2:00 p.m., firefighters noticed a
bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center
between the 10th and 13th floors which was a sign that
the building was unstable and might collapse. During
the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds
coming from the building. Around 3:30 pm, given that 7
World Trade Center was unstable and would possibly
collapse, FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt
rescue operations, surface removal and searches along
the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center
and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety
of personnel. At 5:20 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001,
7 World Trade Center collapsed. The building had been
evacuated and there were no casualties associated with
the collapse...
"When 7 World Trade Center collapsed, debris caused
substantial damage and contamination to the Borough of
Manhattan Community College's Fiterman Hall building,
located adjacent at 30 West Broadway, to the extent
that the building is not salvageable. As of August
2007, Fiterman Hall is undergoing deconstruction. The
adjacent Verizon Building, an art deco building
constructed in 1926, had extensive damage to its east
façade from the collapse of 7 World Trade Center,
though was able to be restored at a cost of US$1.4
billion...
"The entire WTC complex was destroyed on September 11,
2001, and many of the surrounding buildings were also
either damaged or destroyed as the towers fell. 5 WTC
suffered a large fire and a partial collapse of its
steel structure.
"Other buildings destroyed include St. Nicholas Greek
Orthodox Church, Marriott World Trade Center (Marriott
Hotel 3 WTC), South Plaza (4 WTC), and U.S. Customs (6
WTC). The World Financial Center buildings, 90 West
Street, and 130 Cedar Street suffered fires. The
Deutsche Bank Building, Verizon, and World Financial
Center 3 suffered impact damage from the towers'
collapse, as did 90 West Street. One Liberty Plaza
survived structurally intact but sustained surface
damage including shattered windows. 30 West Broadway
was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC. The Deutsche
Bank Building, known through images of it being
covered in a large black 'shroud' after September 11
to cover the building's damage, is currently being
deconstructed because of water, mold, and other severe
damage caused by the neighboring towers' collapse."
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In particular, is it not a fair explanation of the 911
events to say that the US government knew the attack
was going to happen and decided to help things along,
as it were?
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[Reply] This is wacko stuff. I think it goes beyond
wacko. It indicates a lack of basic common sense.
And fits in with the ludicrousness of the other nutty
stuff you preach.
-
Rodney Shakespeare.
PS Yesterday was an American national holiday and I
am very pleased to see that, by writing your email,
for example, you were working hard and not watching
the Houston Hooligans football team (or whatever )
with a greasy hotdog in your hand.
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[Reply] I don't think there were any football games
yesterday.
--- Rodney Shakespeare
<rodney.shakespeare1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
[snipped]
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