[GJM] Good progress/some breakthrough with DK -- action needed
Rodney Shakespeare
rodney.shakespeare1 at btinternet.com
Mon Jan 21 13:22:26 MST 2008
Dear Robert,
The Kondratieff analysis of the situation is that there is a long period of depression (maybe twenty years) , much bankruptcy, unemploymnet etc and then things start to brighten. During the depression unpayable debt and all the untenable positions get smashed out of the system the hard way.
So you could do nothing and rely on things perking up again in, say, twenty years.
But doing nothing means (a) doing nothing about the misery during the depression and b) doing nothing to stop it all happening again and c) doing nothing to ensure that a better system comes into being. Doing nothing is not acceptable to the GJM.
So what we have to do is:
a) face up to the reality of what is almost certainly happening
b propose that which, quietly and powerfully, builds anew -- interest-free loans for the development and spreading of productive and the associated consuming capacity. Among other things, this avoids the build-up of the economic cycles and is also more efficient and just etc.
LaRouche is talking about bankrupting the system -- but it will probably bankrupt itself and LaRouche does NOT have what you need next -- the overall policy to build anew for the future. The LaRouche proposal, as far as it can ascertained (and don't forget Moeen Yaseen has tried, and failed, to get the detail on it) would be to use national bank-issued money in some way but not as to spread productive capacity -- most people would be only allowed to earn via their labour and rich capitalists would get even richer -- for all its rhetoric the LaRouche movement does not have the economic democracy which spreads capital ownership.
As regards fighting the money power it is not easy but the key to it is to get general recognition that
a) money is created out of nothing
b) interest is added (and need not be added, certainly for productive capacity)
c) the money is NOT directed at the development and spreading of productive capacity
Plus, of course, to stimulate willingness to work for a more just economy etc.
.
Rodney Shakespeare
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert searle" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" <discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [GJM] Good progress/some breakthrough with DK -- action needed
> Dear All,
>
> On moral grounds I do believe that bankers should
> not get fat on interest. But the chances of this
> happening at record speed with the kind of problems
> that are emerging in the world seems to me extremely
> unlikely. This is the key point if we are genuinely
> realistic, and sensible....
>
> Even if there is a more enlightened government in
> America it is going to be very difficult to fight the
> money power. Social Credit in Canada tried to reform
> it but ofcourse failed in the beginning of the 20th
> century. Banks used the Courts to delay, and indeed,
> stop any serious changes to their business.
>
> What chance have we today unless there is a really
> huge amount of public support. Some say the credit
> crunch could be a factor leading to interest free
> monetary reform. Is this likely...hardly. But, I hope
> I am mistaken.
>
> So,what is more important? Is it really wise with
> global warming over the horizon to try to reform
> banks, or is it more vital to get social, economic,
> and political change underway even though it means the
> rich getting richer, BUT the poor would also get
> richer in Transfinancial Economics??
>
> It is far more sensible to work with the bankers, and
> corporations in such a way as to allow them to profit
> but with projects that create greater sustainability
> at all levels of life, and also bizarrely bring about
> greater global justice!
>
> If you do not understand the above it would be to read
> my piece on TFE onsite.
>
> R.Searle
>
>
> --- Rodney Shakespeare
> <rodney.shakespeare1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mukhtar,
>> GJM is totally for ecosafety projects, small,
>> medium and large, using interest-free loans (issued
>> from the national banks). This halves, even
>> quarters, the usual cost.
>>
>> Such issuance does not give any profit to
>> conventional banks because they do not issue the
>> loans (although they may administer them)
>>
>> GJM in no way supports conventional banks issuing
>> interest-bearing money for such projects.
>>
>> Rodney
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
>> To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice
>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [GJM] Good progress/some breakthrough
>> with DK -- action needed
>>
>>
>> Dear Robert,
>>
>> GREETING FOR PEACE
>>
>> I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY DISCUSS WHAT EXPENSIVE
>> PROJECT WOULD BE. INTERFAITH COMMONS INCLUDE
>> PROHIBITION OF USURY. IAM QUITE OPPOSSED TO
>> EXPENSIVE PROJECTS FOR ECOSAFETY.. THAT IS GIVING
>> BANKS MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CREATING MONEY OUT OF
>> THIN AIR..
>>
>> robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dear Muhammad Mukhar Alam,et al,
>>
>> Ofcourse interest free loans would certainly
>> be very helpful for environmental progress.. But
>> the
>> most important, and most expensive eco-projects
>> would
>> ideally require the authorized transmission of
>> new
>> non-repayable capital (ie the Transfinancial
>> Paradigm)in instalments, and be carefully
>> monitored by
>> the relevant authorities to avoid fraud.
>>
>> Using earned money would be extremely difficult
>> to
>> raise if not impossible in many cases but until
>> there
>> is a paradigm shift(ie.TFE) in the understanding
>> of
>> capital then there is a REAL DANGER of the human
>> race
>> being largely if not wholly wiped out.....!!! IT
>> IS
>> AS SIMPLE AS THAT! TFE is at the BASIS of
>> everything.
>>
>> Binary Economics, or BE is only part of the
>> monetary
>> jigsaw. Transfinancial Economics fills in all
>> the
>> other pieces. BE is not the BE all, and end of
>> genuine
>> reform of capital no matter what anyone else may
>> say..
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robert Searle
>>
>>
>>
>> --- "Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam"
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Rodney,
>> >
>> > I should have sent you last year Dalit
>> Declaration
>> > where reference to interest free money was
>> made
>> > several time. The declaration was submitted by
>> > NACDOR to the Prime Minister Manmohan. I do
>> beleive
>> > that creation of interest free laons is the
>> best way
>> > to get rid of ecologically hostile development
>> > processes .
>> >
>> > Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
>> >
>> > Rodney Shakespeare
>> > wrote:
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > Apparently we can expect that the Dennis
>> Kucinich
>> > (at some stage later on) will be saying that
>> the US
>> > Treasury can create its own debt -- i.e.,
>> > interest-free loans.
>> >
>> > But unless the interest-free loan mechanism is
>> > used for ALL sectors to develop and spread
>> > productive capacity (DK may confine the
>> proposal
>> > just to public capital projects) a huge
>> > opportunity will be being missed.
>> >
>> > We will know more in a week or two.
>> >
>> > It is now up to GJM members to openly fight
>> for
>> > interest-free loans. NB. The situation is
>> perfect
>> > for progress -- a collapse of some sort is
>> coming
>> > and only extensive use of itnerest-free loans
>> > provides a way forward in future which will
>> not be
>> > liable to the financial cycles etc.
>> >
>> > Rodney Shakespeare
>> >
>> >
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