[GJM] True or False?

[E. Crockett]

--- radu Seserman <radu_seserman at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think this discussion is fruitless. For society it
> does not matter much who creates money as long as
> some sort of control exists. What it matters is who
> owns the assets, including financial assets. A
> society will do well when the ownership base is
> broad. Assets tend to accumulate, the more you have
> the easier is to increase your assets. When the
> concentration of assets is extreme the society
> collapses, revolutions happen. 
> I think that is highly improbable that the monetary
> and financial systems will undergo any significant
> change in the next 100 years. On the other hand,
> ownership structure can be changed much sooner
> because it  can be done  progressively with small
> entities that grow. 
> 
> Why not focus the discussion towards ownership of
> assets, how to create and maintain a balanced and
> equitable ownership structure?
> 
> Radu Seserman
>  
> 
> Steve Consilvio <steve at behappyandfree.com> wrote: 
> The government creates currency.  I create money.
> What the government wants to collect is money
> (labor,) but once currency is in its possession
> again, the government cannot separate the difference
> between money and currency.  Neither can most people
> for that matter.
> 
> 
> The government also creates money, too, which is an
> integral part of the problem, (or the absurdity)
> which then forces everyone to create money. Creating
> money is what profit and inflation represent.
> 
> 
> If perhaps the government only created currency,
> then maybe men could use money as a system of barter
> that works.  But once the government introduces
> profit, the system must grow to collapse.  To be
> more historically accurate, the government
> introduces debt, not profit.  Every new government
> is indebted to a financial ally.  The chains of the
> past are never cut loose.  To service the debt,
> there must be profit, and so the dominoes must
> follow.  Since the government is in debt, it wants a
> share of people's profits.  Once profit is
> introduced, the role of the currency is destroyed,
> everybody must prey on one another to satisfy the
> government.  However, profit would still cause
> problems even if the government were better at its
> role.
> 
> 
> Imagine, for example, that the pay rate for everyone
> was $8 a day.  Everyone was paid the same for work,
> whether they were a brain surgeon or a street
> cleaner.  As a result, every product would cost some
> fraction of $8.  If a car represented 50 hours of
> labor, then it would cost $50.  Land would be free,
> since no labor was used to make it.  For that to be
> possible, the use of money as a commodity would have
> to end.  The government has less power than the
> universities and unions and personal pensions
> financially, but the power to kill keeps them
> afloat.
> 
> 
> In any case, creating a solution is different from
> diagnosing what is wrong with the current system. 
> What we have today is a gigantic ponzi scheme going
> back thousands of years.  Everybody is
> cost-shifting, trying to get new players to
> "believe," so they can take advantage of them.  The
> generation gap is really a marketplace gap between
> reality and fiction.  Money and currency represent
> an intellectual agreement.  How we count is the
> problem, not what we are counting with; the
> existence of currency, to date, means that we also
> think we need money (profit,) too.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I explained myself as well as I would
> like, but the overlap between money and currency is
> a lot like the overlap between religion, politics
> and economics.  One effects the other, even though
> they are different.
> 
> 
> peace,
> steve
> www,behappyandfree.com
>  
> On Oct 15, 2007, at 6:22 AM,
> discussion-request at globaljusticemovement.net wrote:
> 
> I don't think Steve understands the difference
>  between currency and money.
>  
> 
>  Dan
>  
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Radu Seserman
> 
> "Be the change you want to see in the world."  M.
> Gandhi
> "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for
> tomorrow." A. Einstein
>        
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