[GJM] More Fun, and Games with Group8 ! ..... Interesting...!!

[Rodney Shakespeare]

Robert, 
Ten days ago I told the Global Table that I thought your intervention with gang8 would have consequences -- and I am beginning to suspect that could be right.

You see the gang is really a group of very disparate but brilliant individuals with not much of a coherent philosophy binding them but they stay together because they can  always rely on the others for top-class information and comment and, psychologically, they feel themselves a little group which is superior to others.

But Hudson has very different aims to those of right-wing Gardiner,. for example, and the money suppply issue is also one which hits on the the sensitive spots in the group and results in the weird, extraordinary remarks being made to you.

  You may or may not know that the group quarrelled massively with Zarlenga and also with the most brilliant person of them all -- Henry Liu of The Asia Times.

Yes I am impressed with your "fun and games" with gang8 -- I was absolutely astounded to see that you had somewhow locked horns with them!

It was great so see you on Wednesday -- Global and then the evening meeting.

Rodney Shakespeare.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "robert searle" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" <discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GJM] More Fun, and Games with Group8 ! ..... Interesting...!!


> Dear All,
> 
> 
>       I had assumed that my response to Bezemer was
> not going to appear on the Gang8 yahoo discussion
> group. I have just received a message from the
> moderator who initially claimed that it would only be
> a private message not a public one. Now, we discover
> that it appears on their discussion group website.
> 
> This suggests to me that TFE is making waves with
> Gang8 group which appears to consist of alot of
> "conservative" economists(!). 
> 
> Obviously, my research, and development project is not
> as "nutty" as it appears. There seems to be a tacit
> realization of the "fantastical" implications of TFE
> but it would probably not receive any kind of public
> endorsement from the present academics who are members
> of Gang8. The discussion group is heavily censored (
> reminiscent to the old Soviet Union tactics!!!)but it
> is interesting that the TFE posts were accepted, and
> published. So, I must be saying something right even
> if it flies in the face of mainstream economics.
> Ofcourse, there will also be those who will denigrate
> it partly out of misunderstanding, ignorance, or even
> deliberately to protect the status quo.
> 
> When I saw Rodney Shakespeare last Wednesday he seemed
> to be impressed about my "fun, and games" with Gang8.
> However, this is just the begining. When in a few
> years TFE (along with Positive Human Politics, or
> PHP)becomes better known in academia it will shake the
> very foundations of mainstream economics. This will
> probably be bolstered with the successful research,
> and development of high flexible electronic controls
> over inflation levels.
> 
> More astonishingly for some the chances of TFE
> becoming a reality I believe is high. It may take upto
> two decades if a campaign is launched in the next
> three years, or so. The reason why I say this is
> because TFE can greatly benefit the corporations, and
> banks but at the same time it will benefit the
> development of global justice. This sounds "nutty",
> and understandably interest free monetary reformers
> may find this morally "outrageous." Yet, I feel the
> issue of global justice is what matters most rather
> than whether fat cats get fatter, or not!!!
> 
> Ofcourse, the issue of economic inequality is a very
> important aspect of global justice. But, with TFE in
> place NGOs big, and small will become far more
> influential in society for such change because they
> would have an excellent funding unlike now. 
> 
> What matters NOW is creating a new advanced financial
> system which allows for such greater positive
> developments in society, the economy, and politics.
> The future can never be without risks though yet I do
> feel that we are entering into a wonderful golden age
> of change. It is an exciting time to be around....
> 
> 
> R.Searle
> 
> 
> PS.
> 
>    Perhaps significantly, the most recent Gang8 posts
> still carry the words "Transfinancial Economics
> Project.." even though the subject-matter may not be
> relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I was amused to read the moderators public decision
>> for me not to have more of my email published on
>> their
>> yahoo discussion group website. Frankly, I could not
>> give two hoots, and I will be unsubscribing.
>> No doubt this would please Bezemer, and Gardiner
>> along
>> with others of their kind........!!! It was a good
>> laugh anyway as revealed below, and to some extent
>> indicated in the previous emails. 
>> 
>> R.Searle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- "D.J.Bezemer" <d.j.bezemer at rug.nl> wrote:
>> 
>> > dear Robert,
>> > 
>> > Why spent most of your precious writing time
>> bashing
>> > and trashing?
>> 
>> 
>>   Reply. "bashing", and "trashing" are strong words,
>> and I have not gone overboard in this respect. Yet,
>> if
>> people who should know better make seemingly
>> "fantastical" or rediculous  comments then they
>> deserve to be publicly exposed. Next you quote me
>> saying....
>> 
>> > 
>> > ".. certain comments about banking made by the two
>> > learned gentlemen 
>> > seem "fantastical", and they should have known
>> better
>> > not to have made 
>> > them in a public forum...?"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >You speak in mysteries. What are you referring to?
>> 
>> 
>> Reply. As far as I am concerned this is pretty
>> obvious
>> except for those who cannot see. There are four of
>> them from yourself, and the other academic Geoffrey
>> Gardiner.
>> 
>> 
>>              Quotes, and responses.
>> 
>> 
>> Geoffrey Gardiner.
>> 
>> 
>>            "....banks do not create money for
>> themselves but for  their despositor.??"
>> 
>> 
>> Reply. This may be difficult concept to understand
>> because it is so simple. Banks are there to make
>> PROFITS for themselves. I know it sounds
>> extraordinary...perhaps a revelation!!! Obviously,
>> they have to keep depositors reasonably happy but
>> banks only use them for their own ends..end of
>> story! 
>> 
>> What is even more comic is the ?? after the original
>> quote when the answer is painfully clear to anyone
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> "....Interest free credit supplied by a state bank
>> in
>> Soviet economics is not a good recommendation.
>> Potential demand for it would be infinite, and the
>> results catastrophic."
>> 
>> 
>> What a rediculous claim especially in the light that
>> private banks as opposed to state run ones have also
>> in past notably gone bust! With proper reforms this
>> should not happen with the latter which would also
>> be
>> open, and accountable to the people.
>> 
>> 
>> D.J. Bezemer.
>> 
>>        
>> > 
>> > "The problem we noted is that people would
>> presumably
>> > start to create 
>> > their own forms of credit if the state did not
>> > extend it to them. How 
>> > would one solve that in your system?"
>> 
>> 
>> Basically this comment makes no sense. Are we
>> talking
>> about some kind of LETS or what?? It is so vague,
>> and
>> odd. Maybe  I should ignore it just as you ignore
>> so-called "monetary cranks."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    "Fractional Reserve Banking is a concept not a
>> reality. "
>> 
>> 
>> If it is just a concept then why are there endless
>> references to it scholarly texts? And can you quote
>> any sources to your claim that the UK does not use
>> fractional reserve banking anymore??(which also
>> laughingly admits that it did at least exist as a
>> reality rather than a concept!!!).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > "..Plus advanced computer programs can still not
>> deal
>> > with human 
>> > tendencies for speculation, blowing bubbles etc.
>> The
>> > best (but 
>> > fallible) we have is wise regulation, advanced or
>> > otherwise.
>> 
>> 
>> Reply. I assume you have heard algorithmic trading?
>> I
>> also assume that computers when properly programmed
>> can work wonders?? We are living in the 21st
>> century...another simple concept to try and grasp!!
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > You are over-reliant on control methods and on
>> > people harmoniuosly 
>> > working towards some end, foregoing their own
>> > private goals. It is 
>> > precisely this flawed assumption that undermined
>> > Soviet-style central 
>> > planning.
>> 
>> 
>> In TFE we are not talking about a command, or
>> planned
>> economy as understood within a Soviet system of the
>> past(These claims about the Soviet society clearly
>> indicate that I have been dealing with aged
>> academics 
>> who seemed to be trapped in a kind of economic
>> timewarp). Au contraire, competative capitalism
>> would
>> still reign more powerfully than before. In TFE
>> there
>> are virtually NO state planners (or rather civil
>> servants!), or ofcourse direct governmental 
>> decision-making on all aspects of production, and
>> distribution of the economy. However, a super
>> advanced
>> version of incomes policy is involved in which most
>> (but NOT all) products, and services would have to
>> be
>> registered by law.It is a big subject.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >> Naturally in reply you will bash me further as
>> old
>> > guard, but at least 
>> > you have one answer! How's that?
>> > 
>> > enjoy,
>> > 
>> > Dirk
>> > 
>> > PS - congratulations on your near-publication.
>> Keep
>> > going.
>> 
>>       And congratulations for your rediculous
>> comments! Thanks for the "entertainment!"
>> 
>>            I will be unsubscribing shortly.
>> 
>> 
>> Yours..Truly..
>> 
>> 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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