[GJM] Is Money Obsolete?

[Dan Parker]

Thanks Steve. Yes money is just the symbol, and it can
symbolize anything our technoly is capable of. Which
brings one to the old social credit maxim that whatever
is physically possible, is financially possible. An increasing
caveat is that what is physically possible is that which is
environmentally sustainable.

That said: it is my belief that a technologically advanced
society such as ours, with a proper money system, would
not require anyone to do much work, if they did not wish
to do so.

It is the environment (re: airconditioners running all day
etc.) that seems to make the accountancy of economic
activity necessary for the forseeable future imo. Not a
300 year old debt/compound interest system that is
pretty well guaranteed to destroy all in its path except
that which is inhumane.

The Big Bus Driver works in mysterious ways, and
that person who seems to be doing nothing might just
be thinking about somethng that will lead to great
advancements for all. Who knows? Myself, I like to
keep physically busy now for the most part. I am
a realtor, design web pages, fix computers, self
publish a magazine every month on monetary reform
etc. To print off copies

http://www.whitecourtweb.com/whitecourt_advisor.htm

But I did my best thinking before, when I had time to sit
and reflect, when this seemed the thing to do.

Regards
Dan Parker

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Nieman" <stevenieman at mac.com>
To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" 
<discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [GJM] Is Money Obsolete?


I agree with Dan,

The root of all evil is NOT money, IF (and this is an important
word), we properly set up how we administer and distribute money and
credit.  We being government, because that's one of the geniuses of a
central government –– it can do what individuals by themselves cannot.

That's why corporations are important.  By coming together,
individuals can own and benefit from expensive productive capital
assets that they could not afford to buy on their own.  Again, the
important matter is to be sure corporate governance is set up
democratically AND keeping in mind what Dan points out –– provisions
to counter the bad people, loafers, free-riders, the people who want
something for nothing.  In a well run corporation, everybody
connected to it has an important role, and they must execute their
duty properly.

At Downwind Corp, the entity that I set up with a few other people ––
we are trying some things that have been discussed in various Global
Justice Movement arenas, on this discussion board as well as on the
numerous COG boards at Kent State.  Such as, offering our
stakeholders transactional cost interest to become owners of our
assets over time.  Aiming for break even even though we are a for-
profit S corp; in other words, offering access to our assets by labor
and what we produce by our customers at cost.  Why the need to
generate a *profit*?  As long as we can pay our expenses, we're a
going concern.  Growth?  We borrow money for that (we're trying to
set up innovative ways to do that too).

Not having to generate an additional 5-10% on our *capital* is huge.
Our company has a profit sharing program that pays to our
*workcustmers* (which is what we have dubbed our stakeholders, a
combining of worker and customer roles, which recognizes their
interdependency), but why not produce and consume at cost?
Generating all that additional profit money and paying it back, we
figure, is a wasted step.  Plus people can use that money NOW to live
their lives.

The tools are all here.  We don't have to reinvent the wheel.  Many
of our ancestors were righteous, and tried to set up things as best
they knew how.  It's just that we've gotten off track here in the
last 50 years or so.

Evil people don't necessarily work harder.  My wife says they just
take short cuts that people who try to do things justly don't.  So
it's easier for them to have more of an affect.  The good people have
to hang in there and not back down when confronted by evil.  Evil
people, I've learned, are more scared that most people realize.

Regards,
Steve Nieman,
Interim CEO, Downwind Corp

p.s.  You could *invest* in the Downwind Corp –– but you can't.  Only
people actively working our assets and consuming our production are
allowed to be its stockholders.  And we don't sell our shares –– we
give them to them.  Afterall, it's their wealth creating that makes
our little company go...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Dan Parker wrote:

> Thanks for the great poem Richard. For money,
> experiments in Russia on a large scale and Israeli (kibbutzim)
> on a small scale, show that it is too early to eliminate
> the accounting of money from a sociological perspective.
>
> Kibbutzim members would leave their air conditioners
> going all day, waste tons of food etc. because they were
> not held personally responsible (until reforms fixed this).
>
> Remember, all it takes is one to ruin things, even if the
> great majority are inwardly driven to do the right thing.
> That one person leads to the old 80/20 split, where 20%
> of the people end up doing 80% of the work.
>
> This could well be a reminder that accounting (and the
> symbol of money) will always be necessary from
> an environmental perspective (basic 'tragedy of the
> commons' stuff).
>
> Regards
> Dan


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