[GJM] Working with Banks and Corporations to Achieve a High Degree of Global Justice?

[robert searle]

--- Steve Consilvio <steve at behappyandfree.com> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> You don't seem to understand that everyone and every
> organization is  
> a "business," whose survival depends on "selling"
> something. For  
> money to flow "in" then the organization must give
> something "out."  
> Taxes, profits, and donations are all "money" which
> is gathered "in"  
> by either laws, goods, or promises. In other words,
> the relationship  
> of MONEY and LABOR is the same in all three empires,
> only the good  
> being sold changes slightly. (Let the buyer beware.)


Ofcourse, I am well aware of the above. In TFE there
are two worlds

          The Human Financial System.

          The Economic Financial System.


The first system is TFE in which new unearned money is
created responsibly for for local, and national
governments, and to a large extent NGOS. The Economic
Financial System is where money is actually earned via
labour, or by some kind of business. But, ofcoure it
originated as something which was created, and hence,
unearned. In TFE the link between money, and
productivity is not altogether broken...by any means.
Rather it can stimulate it leading to the circulation
of earned money.


> 
> The first job of every empire is to take care of
> itself, which it  
> does by shifting the burden elsewhere. Marketplace
> Theory essentially  
> posits that if everybody shifts we will collectively
> create an  
> abundance of goods. There is some truth to this. But
> the abundance of  
> "goods" is also an abundance of "bads" too, like
> pollution, waste,  
> power, etc.


Again, you are expressing the obvious. With the
present capitalist system there is a high degree of
waste, pollution, power..etc. These "bads" in TFE can
easily be dealt with by special non-profit companies,
and/or businesses using advanced technologies. In
normal circumstances alot of this would NOT be
commercially viable. Thus, with the creation of new
unearned money they can be funded by governments via a
special Treasury Bank, and/or Grant Generating Banks.



> 
> Also, saying "time is not on our side" is to
> introduce an element of  
> fear. And saying "it is good to see a businessman
> contributing" is to  
> introduce your pride. Pride and fear is a toxic
> combination. Nothing  
> can be accomplished with these elements, and, as I
> have already made  
> clear, everyone is a business. Money is the common
> myth, not  
> religion, political power, rights, the environment
> or anything else.  
> Money itself is the grand delusion. Not who has it,
> how it flows, how  
> it can be used, or how to share it. This is why the
> concept of  
> jubilee is so important. It is not just about
> leveling society, it is  
> about recognizing (and overcoming) how money is
> rooted in our  
> imaginations.




I am NOT disputing what you say here. It is a grand
delusion...but we have to UNDERSTAND that this
delusion is too deeply ingrained for it be changed for
now...that comes much later in time. Again, I
agree...and on this you are right on the money...so to
speak!!!

In one sense, everyone is "businessman" as you
indicate..so what?. Everyone is working for a dime, or
cent, or whatever...all manmade constructs.



> 
> Everybody, yourself included, is forced to plan
> their activities  
> around money. People go to work for money
> (converting labor into  
> money.) The government spends all its time, at both
> the national,  
> international and local levels, talking about money
> (converting laws  
> into money.) Business is  an attempt to "convert
> goods into money."  
> Non-profits, 501c3's and churches are an attempt to
> "convert words  
> into money." To some degree, all are doing elements
> of the same  
> thing. (A bake sale for a school engages in
> profit-taking, like a  
> business, or an organization selling t-shirts for
> profit.) Everyone  
> is trying to convert labor, words and goods into
> money, but the  
> hierarchy of how they do it may differ slightly.
> 
> Think of the world as a giant assembly line. Trade
> is good. We all  
> get to enjoy the bounty of the Earth through trade. 
> Money, however,  
> is not the same as trading goods, and profit and
> interest increases  
> the cost of the good as it moves from station to
> station along the  
> assembly line. This is great when you are buying and
> reselling  
> because you realize a "profit" (tax or donation) but
> at the point  
> where you actually consume a good it contains all
> the profits  
> compounded at each step in the assembly line. How
> can one person  
> afford to pay for all these profits of others? They
> can't, unless  
> they have shifted the burden of their consumption
> onto others  
> elsewhere by playing the same way in the existing
> system. (This is  
> exactly what your idea of offering bribes posits to
> do.) A vertical  
> company which owns the entire process from raw good
> to finished  
> product has an advantage solely because it can
> control all the profit- 
> taking in the assembly line. But, history has shown
> that is a  
> failure, too. Overhead is also a burden when there
> is a ripple in the  
> economy, and a company cannot isolate itself from
> purchasing (and  
> selling) outside of itself. No man is an island, and
> neither is a  
> business, a non-profit or a government.




Why are you expressing the obvious? Competative
capitalism, and the artificial construct of money the
great delusion is not going to disappear overnight
with something like a Resource Based Economy. Anybody
can see that!! What is the point of harping on about
it without coming up with anything truly "original"
other than some kind of known "utopian" type system? 

Yes, I am well aware that some of the ideas of TFE are
not totally new, but the same could be said about the
Theory of Relativity, and other advanced
"paradigms".......



> 
> My "evolving ideas" is simply that what I am saying
> to you today is  
> not presented as clearly and succinctly on my
> website. It needs a  
> major overhaul. My ideas have actually evolved
> beyond even what I am  
> telling you here (the zero dollar, for example) but
> what I am saying  
> you should be able to grasp. The "Big Idea" as you
> put it is nothing  
> new. Gene Roddenberry's use of "credits" in Star
> Trek is essentially  
> a world without profit, not a world without money.
> People have long  
> understood the problem the existence of money
> creates in a utopia. I  
> am simply offering you the mathematical formula that
> explains the  
> "how and why" money is a problem. (Profit and
> Interest.)  If 2+2=5  
> then 5=2+2. While profit and money are related they
> are distinctly  
> different. One man's profit is another man's debt.
> To get one man out  
> of debt is to reduce the profit of someone else.
> (Kinda hard to do  
> when everybody needs profit to survive.) What is
> needed is a pricing  
> equilibrium. That is the first transitional step.
> However, what  
> everyone is doing today is to increase the cost of
> living for someone  
> else, and the pressure to do so advances as the
> problem grows.  
> Political revolutions can not fix what is an
> economic problem. In  
> fact, revolutions are celebrations of stupidity. It
> is pride and  
> fear, (blame and self-righteousness) not a systemic
> change in  
> relationships on the assembly line of trade. It is
> going from the  
> frying pan into the fire because destruction in ten
> times worse than  
> throwing stuff away.
> 
> Check out The Great Wave by David Hackett Fischer.
> His work validates  
> my theories. He tracks the phenomenon over 800
> years, and it is an  
> amazing narrative he tells. With a pricing
> equilibrium you have a  
> renaissance. With inflation you have unrest
> (revolution, planes  
> flying into banks, etc.) You are still focusing on
> whom is to blame  
> and not the system of money itself. Money, debt,
> poverty and war have  
> nothing to do with technology or political systems,
> or the roles  
> people play; these things are economic problems, and
> everybody is  
> playing the same role financially in contributing to
> the problem. (Of  
> course the losers complain loudest, and the winners
> think it runs  
> fine.) We are all Scrooge because the rules and
> habits were made by  
> Scrooge. To conquer our inner Scrooge is no easy
> thing, and once  
> conquered one is still imprisoned by a world of
> Scrooges. If you want  
> to climb up, then you must take the hand of the
> person above you. If  
> you want to climb down, then you must take the hand
> of the person  
> below you. Either way, you have to trust your
> opposite, and love your  
> enemy.




What you seem to be talking about is Surplus Value as
understood by Marx. I do believe capitalism is morally
wrong but again, and again this system is too well
entrenched to be reformed by more idealistic
perceptions of money...mans great delusion! That
transformation for fairer distribution (or
redistribution if one is a socialist, or a communist)
can only come about via gradualism. It is not going to
happen "just like that!" 

This will take many many decades as it requires
psychological, and environmental changes for most
people for it to become a global reality. TFE helps
that process by financially empowering those NGOs
concerned with such matters as never before...because
theirs is clearly an ethical issue at the end of the
day rather than a political one.


Please remember that TFE is a New Paradigm, and
requires a Paradigm Shift in our understanding of
humanity,and the world. It goes way beyond the limited
thinking which is often presented by people on this
when it comes to monetary reform. 



PS. Apologies for any typos etc in this,and other
posts.


> 
> Peace,
> Steve
> www.behappyandfree.com
> 
> "A great nation is like a great man: When he makes a
> mistake, he  
> realizes it. Having realized it, he admits it.
> Having admitted it, he  
> corrects it. He considers those who point out his
> faults as his most  
> benevolent teachers. He thinks of his enemy as the
> shadow 
=== message truncated ===>
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