[GJM] Working with Banks and Corporations to Achieve a High Degree of Global Justice?

[Steve Consilvio]

Robert,

You don't seem to understand that everyone and every organization is  
a "business," whose survival depends on "selling" something. For  
money to flow "in" then the organization must give something "out."  
Taxes, profits, and donations are all "money" which is gathered "in"  
by either laws, goods, or promises. In other words, the relationship  
of MONEY and LABOR is the same in all three empires, only the good  
being sold changes slightly. (Let the buyer beware.)

The first job of every empire is to take care of itself, which it  
does by shifting the burden elsewhere. Marketplace Theory essentially  
posits that if everybody shifts we will collectively create an  
abundance of goods. There is some truth to this. But the abundance of  
"goods" is also an abundance of "bads" too, like pollution, waste,  
power, etc.

Also, saying "time is not on our side" is to introduce an element of  
fear. And saying "it is good to see a businessman contributing" is to  
introduce your pride. Pride and fear is a toxic combination. Nothing  
can be accomplished with these elements, and, as I have already made  
clear, everyone is a business. Money is the common myth, not  
religion, political power, rights, the environment or anything else.  
Money itself is the grand delusion. Not who has it, how it flows, how  
it can be used, or how to share it. This is why the concept of  
jubilee is so important. It is not just about leveling society, it is  
about recognizing (and overcoming) how money is rooted in our  
imaginations.

Everybody, yourself included, is forced to plan their activities  
around money. People go to work for money (converting labor into  
money.) The government spends all its time, at both the national,  
international and local levels, talking about money (converting laws  
into money.) Business is  an attempt to "convert goods into money."  
Non-profits, 501c3's and churches are an attempt to "convert words  
into money." To some degree, all are doing elements of the same  
thing. (A bake sale for a school engages in profit-taking, like a  
business, or an organization selling t-shirts for profit.) Everyone  
is trying to convert labor, words and goods into money, but the  
hierarchy of how they do it may differ slightly.

Think of the world as a giant assembly line. Trade is good. We all  
get to enjoy the bounty of the Earth through trade.  Money, however,  
is not the same as trading goods, and profit and interest increases  
the cost of the good as it moves from station to station along the  
assembly line. This is great when you are buying and reselling  
because you realize a "profit" (tax or donation) but at the point  
where you actually consume a good it contains all the profits  
compounded at each step in the assembly line. How can one person  
afford to pay for all these profits of others? They can't, unless  
they have shifted the burden of their consumption onto others  
elsewhere by playing the same way in the existing system. (This is  
exactly what your idea of offering bribes posits to do.) A vertical  
company which owns the entire process from raw good to finished  
product has an advantage solely because it can control all the profit- 
taking in the assembly line. But, history has shown that is a  
failure, too. Overhead is also a burden when there is a ripple in the  
economy, and a company cannot isolate itself from purchasing (and  
selling) outside of itself. No man is an island, and neither is a  
business, a non-profit or a government.

My "evolving ideas" is simply that what I am saying to you today is  
not presented as clearly and succinctly on my website. It needs a  
major overhaul. My ideas have actually evolved beyond even what I am  
telling you here (the zero dollar, for example) but what I am saying  
you should be able to grasp. The "Big Idea" as you put it is nothing  
new. Gene Roddenberry's use of "credits" in Star Trek is essentially  
a world without profit, not a world without money. People have long  
understood the problem the existence of money creates in a utopia. I  
am simply offering you the mathematical formula that explains the  
"how and why" money is a problem. (Profit and Interest.)  If 2+2=5  
then 5=2+2. While profit and money are related they are distinctly  
different. One man's profit is another man's debt. To get one man out  
of debt is to reduce the profit of someone else. (Kinda hard to do  
when everybody needs profit to survive.) What is needed is a pricing  
equilibrium. That is the first transitional step. However, what  
everyone is doing today is to increase the cost of living for someone  
else, and the pressure to do so advances as the problem grows.  
Political revolutions can not fix what is an economic problem. In  
fact, revolutions are celebrations of stupidity. It is pride and  
fear, (blame and self-righteousness) not a systemic change in  
relationships on the assembly line of trade. It is going from the  
frying pan into the fire because destruction in ten times worse than  
throwing stuff away.

Check out The Great Wave by David Hackett Fischer. His work validates  
my theories. He tracks the phenomenon over 800 years, and it is an  
amazing narrative he tells. With a pricing equilibrium you have a  
renaissance. With inflation you have unrest (revolution, planes  
flying into banks, etc.) You are still focusing on whom is to blame  
and not the system of money itself. Money, debt, poverty and war have  
nothing to do with technology or political systems, or the roles  
people play; these things are economic problems, and everybody is  
playing the same role financially in contributing to the problem. (Of  
course the losers complain loudest, and the winners think it runs  
fine.) We are all Scrooge because the rules and habits were made by  
Scrooge. To conquer our inner Scrooge is no easy thing, and once  
conquered one is still imprisoned by a world of Scrooges. If you want  
to climb up, then you must take the hand of the person above you. If  
you want to climb down, then you must take the hand of the person  
below you. Either way, you have to trust your opposite, and love your  
enemy.

Peace,
Steve
www.behappyandfree.com

"A great nation is like a great man: When he makes a mistake, he  
realizes it. Having realized it, he admits it. Having admitted it, he  
corrects it. He considers those who point out his faults as his most  
benevolent teachers. He thinks of his enemy as the shadow that he  
himself casts." - Lao-Tzu


On Feb 23, 2007, at 10:39 AM, discussion- 
request at globaljusticemovement.net wrote:

> Thank you for your detailed response.
> Having read what you have said,and indeed, your
> interesting link it is clear that though your
> "evolving" ideas do not  go far enough.Thisis also
> true of most if not all kinds of monetary, and
> economic theories here onsite, and ofcourse elsewhere.
> Certainly, small changes can achieve much but at the
> end of the day it is the big ones which will achieve
> everything. Time is not on our side. Big Changes
> require Big Ideas, and they must come about......
>
> It is good to see a businessman contributing to this
> forum even if we agree to disagree.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert Searle.

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