[GJM] Evolutionary conversation

[marguerite hampton]

 Steve Consilvio wrote in part: 



What can science tell us of our emotions? 



eco:  What science is capable of telling us is how emotions are formed
biologically.  And in learning about the biology of consciousness of which
our emotions play a role, from a scientific standpoint we can begin to
understand how to manage them effectively.  Our emotions can't control us
unless we let them.  We have the power within us to make conscious choice. 
When 

we give over our personal power to some mythological figure outside of
ourselves, we fail to take

responsibility for our own actions -- shoving it off somewhere else. How
convenient to "sin" and then be able to ask for forgiveness from somewhere
outside of ourselves and be guaranteed that forgiveness will be dispensed. 
Sounds like a license to steal to me.  And boy do those in the  drug cartels
ever take advantage of this one -- sell drugs, ask for forgiveness, give
huge donation to church and make church more wealthy and all is forgiven --
gates to heaven are opened wide. 

Wow, what a deal!!       



This "faith-based ideology" also teaches us to continually be looking
outside of ourselves for approval.  My heart goes out to those who walk
around every day with a guilt complex because

they never seem to get it right -- no matter what they do or how hard they
try not to backslide, it is never enough to please the church, or parents. 
I've worked with so many young people and adults as well (as a lay counselor
under the direct supervision of a licensed therapist) and viewed the damage
done first hand.           

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: Steve Consilvio

Date: 02/16/07 06:22:06

To: discussion at globaljusticemovement.net

Subject: Re: [GJM] Evolutionary conversation

 

 

 

On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:00 PM, discussion-request at globaljusticemovement.net
wrote:

 

 

In order to get out of the bind that religion has placed us in, the only

place to turn for legitimacy/authenticity is to science. 

 

 

I am following this post with one forwarded by good friend and new list

member Chuck Tedesco also known as Carlo Ami, entitled: "Praying From the

Heart" which has a substantial 

scientific basis. 

 

 

Comments? 

 

 

warm regards,

 

 

marguerite . 

 

 

 

 

I have spent some time at the Joseph Campbell forum (www.jcf.org) and the
exploration of what I would call the triangularization between myth, science
 and reality. I would suggest that religion (ie the spiritual) is more real
than people are willing to accept, and that our problems are political
because it is in politics that division occurs. Politics is the social realm


 

 

Please let that serve as a poor introduction to what I posted this morning
and am reposting here. I think it is as good I comment as I could make to
the "bind that religion has placed us in." It is actually science that is
the problem, or rather, our trust in our own reflection. The mirror is a
treacherous place. 

 

 

On 2007-02-13 22:39, noman wrote: 

Science is not responsible for the current blindness and lack of wisdom of
which SteveC speaks - nor is traditional religion. 

 

 

- NoMan 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, "science" isn't real, it is a myth, so it can't be responsible. Man is
responsible. Of course, how man understands science, and uses it, colors his
view and leads him to make mistakes. 

 

 

Science is the study of cause and effect. It is essentially an observation
of the world, and as such is no different than philosophy and religion. 

 

 

What is the difference between philosophy and religion? Philosophy is based
on the observations made by man. Religion is scriptually based upon the
observations made by God. Theology is an attempt to bridge the two. Science
acts as sort of an allegedly impartial standard. For example, without
science we could not have a miracle. While science attempts to prove or
disprove something, it is actually science that makes the spiritual possible
 Of course, the spiritual is least easily understood, and is most easily
observed, for it is what we also call myth and ritual, love, family and a
whole range of emotions. 

 

 

What can science tell us of our emotions? It can try to regulate them, but
then we end up with a Columbine. Drugs can make us stupid and desperate and
crazy, and they can also heal us, or put us into a passive slumber of blind
obedience. 

 

 

For me, ideas are my drug. For others, their drug is money, or power, or
fame, etc. (I have had those drugs too.) 

 

 

But "wisdom" is still yet a different standard, isn't it? Wisdom is also
based on observing the cause and effect of "others observing cause and
effect." Wisdom encompasses religion, science, theology, politics, economics
 myth, ritual and so on. 

 

 

Am I wise? 

Are you wise? 

Was Socrates wise? 

 

 

One question leads to another in the chain reaction of "cause and effect."
Wealth comes from the pursuit of wealth. Wisdom comes from the pursuit of
wisdom. 

 

 

And yet, we have no control at all of our destiny. We are like animals, and
driven by the biological need to survive. 

 

 

We are the subjects of science not the masters of it. As we try to master it
 we subject ourselves to more of its misery. That is what I mean by "science
is responsible for our lack of wisdom and blindness." In particular, it is
our faith in "marketplace theory" that makes us so miserable, and all of the
corresponding rituals that go along with its myth. 

 

 

We fill out forms with numbers on them everyday. The government is a huge
filing cabinet in the sky, mirrored by the absurdity of insurance companies,
banks and businesses. Like Neo in The Matrix, we are awash in a world of
numbers, and scientists probe the heavens to collect more numbers. There are
numbers everywhere, but if you mulitply them by zero you still get zero. 

 

 

We have nothing more than when we began: each other. 

 

 

Peace,

Steve