[GJM] Evolutionary conversation

[ecopilgrim at aabol.com]

Dear Steven thank you for your comments here. 

I would like to ask you a couple of questions.

Would you please give me a definition of God? 
It is MHO that as we discover more that is 
verifiable about the "human operating system"
and "the cosmic operating" system, we will need
a new definition.    

Did you write anything here that is verifiable 
in any way? Can you measure any of this or see 
it taking place through a microscope or with the
human eye? 

As we construct the website: Pathways to Consciousness,
you will be able to see how human consciousness forms
as a natural organic process.  

Would you say that "seeing" and being able to experience
in your own body the processes of consciosness is something
believable? 

Or, would you rather continue on in a "faith-based" mode
of divinization which has a lot of cultural bias built into
it?      

 







********** Original Email *********
** To:   discussion at globaljusticemovement.net
** From: steve at behappyandfree.com
** Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:35:23
**********


On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:00 PM, discussion- 
request at globaljusticemovement.net wrote:

> In order to get out of the bind that religion has placed us in, the  
> only
> place to turn for legitimacy/authenticity is to science.
>
> I am following this post with one forwarded by good friend and new  
> list
> member Chuck Tedesco also known as Carlo Ami, entitled:  "Praying  
> From the
> Heart" which has a substantial
> scientific basis.
>
> Comments?
>
> warm regards,
>
> marguerite  .


I have spent some time at the Joseph Campbell forum (www.jcf.org) and  
the exploration of what I would call the triangularization between  
myth, science, and reality. I would suggest that religion (ie the  
spiritual) is more real than people are willing to accept, and that  
our problems are political because it is in politics that division  
occurs. Politics is the social realm.

Please let that serve as a poor introduction to what I posted this  
morning and am reposting here. I think it is as good I comment as I  
could make to the "bind that religion has placed us in." It is  
actually science that is the problem, or rather, our trust in our own  
reflection. The mirror is a treacherous place.

On 2007-02-13 22:39, noman wrote:
Science is not responsible for the current blindness and lack of  
wisdom of which SteveC speaks - nor is traditional religion.

- NoMan





Well, "science" isn't real, it is a myth, so it can't be responsible.  
Man is responsible. Of course, how man understands science, and uses  
it, colors his view and leads him to make mistakes.

Science is the study of cause and effect. It is essentially an  
observation of the world, and as such is no different than philosophy  
and religion.

What is the difference between philosophy and religion? Philosophy is  
based on the observations made by man. Religion is scriptually based  
upon the observations made by God. Theology is an attempt to bridge  
the two. Science acts as sort of an allegedly impartial standard. For  
example, without science we could not have a miracle. While science  
attempts to prove or disprove something, it is actually science that  
makes the spiritual possible. Of course, the spiritual is least  
easily understood, and is most easily observed, for it is what we  
also call myth and ritual, love, family and a whole range of emotions.

What can science tell us of our emotions? It can try to regulate  
them, but then we end up with a Columbine. Drugs can make us stupid  
and desperate and crazy, and they can also heal us, or put us into a  
passive slumber of blind obedience.

For me, ideas are my drug. For others, their drug is money, or power,  
or fame, etc. (I have had those drugs too.)

But "wisdom" is still yet a different standard, isn't it? Wisdom is  
also based on observing the cause and effect of "others observing  
cause and effect." Wisdom encompasses religion, science, theology,  
politics, economics, myth, ritual and so on.

Am I wise?
Are you wise?
Was Socrates wise?

One question leads to another in the chain reaction of "cause and  
effect." Wealth comes from the pursuit of wealth. Wisdom comes from  
the pursuit of wisdom.

And yet, we have no control at all of our destiny. We are like  
animals, and driven by the biological need to survive.

We are the subjects of science not the masters of it. As we try to  
master it, we subject ourselves to more of its misery. That is what I  
mean by "science is responsible for our lack of wisdom and  
blindness." In particular, it is our faith in "marketplace theory"  
that makes us so miserable, and all of the corresponding rituals that  
go along with its myth.

We fill out forms with numbers on them everyday. The government is a  
huge filing cabinet in the sky, mirrored by the absurdity of  
insurance companies, banks and businesses. Like Neo in The Matrix, we  
are awash in a world of numbers, and scientists probe the heavens to  
collect more numbers. There are numbers everywhere, but if you  
mulitply them by zero you still get zero.

We have nothing more than when we began: each other.

Peace,
Steve_______________________________________________
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