[GJM] #5 On The Inner Structure Of TOP, Bill Ellis Comments

[wesburt at juno.com]

Dear Bill,

I have often been critical of you and others who 
focus too sharply on the HOW (and by whom) and 
obfuscate the WHAT of education.  Please forgive 
me.  Your comments, forwarded below, are the 
strongest argument I have seen in ages for the 
separation of church and state as the founding 
fathers tried to frame it.  John Gelles comment 
came in later and needs no comment from me.

You describe two systems of education.  I 
understand the first ("authoritarian, hierarchal, 
competitive schools) to be schools run by one 
or another faction of our J. C. M. P. Western 
Tradition, all of which teach the principle of 
Subsidiarity.  I understand the second (life-long 
freedom, the right resources and the opportunities 
to learn what they want, when they want, and 
how they want) to be the US public school system 
that I graduated from in Lynn, Massachusetts and 
that my four children attended in Lynnfield Center, 
MA; Hatboro, PA; Springfield, VA; College Park, MD; 
and McLean, VA.  All operated by local governments 
and funded by property tax revenue.  Not too long 
ago, in a nation of property owning farmers and 
small businessmen, the property tax amounted to 
a direct tax on income from their property, A Tithe!

Maybe our public schools are regressing like 
everything else in our society.  Then our task 
is to fix it (as in List FixGov), not tear it down 
and start over from the stone age with only a 
few million people.  To accomplish that task 
the lurkers on my copy list will have to get 
over their insolent contempt for the public 
intelligence, and address WHAT has been 
missing from US education since Henry Carter 
Adams published his, "Relation Of The State 
To Industrial Action."  

As SCREWTAPE said in 1941; "Our best work 
is done by WHAT we keep out of the public mind."  
He could also have said; "It has worked since 
I spoke to Rehoboam in 975 B.C., It worked as 
well when I spoke to George Bush and Tony 
Blair in the 21st century."

Bill, I have omitted Fig17d.gif which shows that 
WHAT was kept out of the public mind has been 
restored to the private sector since 1887.  Lists 
FixGov and simpolicies-general don't distribute 
attachments while ERANet at yahoogroups.com 
does, to its credit; as do the rest of my nine lists.   

Thanks again Bill, for opening this window of 
opportunity for a look into the inner structure 
of our cosmos.  Perhaps a "French Revolution" 
will be needed, but I hope not.

Kind regards,

Wes Burt

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Ellis <tranet at rangeley.org>
To: FixGov <FixGov at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:45:44 -0400
Subject: [FixGov] Local gov.

Wes Burt wrote:
>  I cannot conceive of getting "Liberty and Justice
> For All" from a World Government unless we first
> perfect Local Government ,... [snip]

BE:
... and I cannot conceive of perfecting local 
government as along as we lock future citizens 
away from family and community in the most 
formative years of their lives.

Putting young people in authoritarian, hierarchal, 
competitive schools teaches them to obey orders, 
do what the authrities tell them, to work in self-
interest, for the future rewards of material wealth 
perpetuates the athoritarian, hierarcal, competitive 
society in which they are brain washed to fit.  

Empowered citizens come from empowered youth 
who have the life-long freedom, the right resources 
and the opportunities to learn what they want, when 
they want, and how they want.    

To fix government we must first fix the way future 
citizens are introduced to society.

IMHO
Bill Ellis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Gelles replies to Bill Ellis:

Bill Ellis paints a neat picture:

"Empowered citizen come from empowered 
youth who  have the life-long freedom, the 
right, the resources and the opportunities to 
learn what they want when the want and how 
they want.  To fix government we must first 
fix the way future citizens are introduced to 
society."

I'm sure Bill agrees that human beings are not 
yet living in a place where they are empowered 
as he suggests. Born in the jungle with the other 
animals, they have built civilizations with far 
less democracy than suggested by Bill -- with, 
really, hardly any economic democracy at all.

Economic democracy can only result when 
natural scarcity is defeated.  Until that time, 
youth is dependent on age to be trained to 
produce what people need to survive from 
day to day.

One can imagine a variety of training systems 
-- from North Korean regimentation, Cuban less 
but still regimented kinds, Danish liberal 
attempts, and something that would satisfy Bill's 
outline -- a system of talented enlightened parents 
and teachers who took their cues from a profound 
understanding of what it is to be a child and what 
is needed to supply society with nourishment, but 
blunt its natural ignorant, amoral, grasping behaviors.

I'm with Bill. Frst I'll learn Danish, then I'll buy a 
ticket for Bill's place -- wherever it is.

John Gelles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ End two comments ~~~~~~~~~~~~

               TOP and TWP are cognoscible on
                Dr. W. Curtiss Priest's web site at:
                    <http://www.epie.org/cyber-
                             soc/default.htm>
                 TOP is GOOD --- TWP is EVIL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net/attachments/20060928/a5dc8d2b/attachment.html