[GJM] Discussion Digest, Vol 38, Issue 29

[robert searle]

Dear MH,

       I do now feel you have fully revealed your true
colours, and I am in no way suprised. I think the idea
of waiting for some kind of a disaster to bring about
small "zero growth" eco-communities is a shameful, and
backward  stance to take. What if this "disaster"
could lead to the death of millions on planet if
something serious is not done NOW? One of those
millions could be you, or me, or even some relative,
your son,your daughter...? 

In order to bring about change we have to tackle Big
Brother en direct, and yes, it is very difficult to do
but it is not impossible. It even may involve "eating
humble pie" as in the case of Positive Engagement with
Banks, and Corporations (TFE).The other route is your
route which is to basically "cop out" of it all which
I find extremely offensive to put mildly.. I do not
think you fully understand the implications of what
you are saying though you would undoubtedly say
otherwise.

Let me put it straight. I agree with the idea of
society "downsizing" to a large extent. But, I am also
convinced that it is perfectly possible with the
development of greater creativity in the way of
technological sustainability to successfully continue
with a high, or higher growth economy . I know this is
stretching the imagination somewhat for some
people.... but you cannot expect much from
"mainstream" green thinking. Yet, I do believe there
are better means of doing things which require
positive competition, and cooperation even in the
present capitalist system.

Incidently, eco-villages are ofcourse not the answer
to everything!!! They can be self-sufficient, and
self-financing in full, or in part with LETS but even
these too can be corrupted perhaps by someone who has
charisma. 

Furthermore, it is obtuse to believe that merely
changing the economic system would necessarily mean
better people, and "better" living. Alot has to do
with "nature", and not just nurture. The Communist
"experiment" in the former USSR is a classic example
of idealism going wrong. 

Regards,

Robert Searle



--- marguerite hampton <ecopilgrim at aabol.com> wrote:

>  
> 
> Dear Martin, 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me, but I think the goal should go beyond
> "make much less severe" to
> 
> "eliminating the problem".  Make much less severe
> equates with me to: "there
> 
> is no such thing as just a little pregnant". 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with you re: 
> 
> 
> 
> If we adopt the idea that the banking system is the
> major source of our
> 
> money supply, and new money can only be created with
> an equivalent amount of
> 
> debt, we force ourselves into this distorted economy
> that makes rearmament
> 
> and war the way in which we give jobs, and so
> incomes, to everyone. It
> 
> really doesn't have to be so. 
> 
>  
> 
> creating local economies eliminates the problems as
> it goes around the
> system, 
> 
> gets a fair exchange medium into the hands of those
> who know what to do with
> it at 
> 
> the community level, and also creates a broader and
> more equitable means of 
> 
> accounting as it does away with interest.  In this
> manner there is no 
> central control
> 
> agency" which still exists in the manner in which
> you suggest.to 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the very reason that the GMS is not
> about to let local economies
> arise
> 
> unless forced to do so as they have done in past in
> times of severe
> recession 
> 
> or depression.  
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO global climate change and other factors will
> create an extremely severe
> economic
> 
> depression and local communities will only be able
> to survive by creating
> local currencies
> 
> and delinking themselves from the national economy
> in order to ".not go down
> with the ship."
> 
> Since it is projected that this next economic
> depression will be worldwide
> and run so deep 
> 
> and be so severe, that recovery anytime in the near
> future will be an
> impossiblility, those local
> 
> communities that are prepared can enter into this
> "window of opportunity"
> and thus through 
> 
> cooperation create a new economy which serves the
> interests of the people
> who want to see
> 
> a sustainable living configured culture take place. 
> While communities can
> in this manner, control their own destiny and not be
> dependent upon "Big
> Brother" (government plus organized religion)
> 
> they can, when it is desirous to do so, form
> cooperative endeavors with
> other like-minded communities to fund endeavors that
> a single community
> could not take on by itself. But these
> 
> coops would be short term committments over the life
> span of the event
> itself and would in no way
> 
> bind the communities into committments other than
> for a specific event. 
> 
> 
> 
> As the emergence of human emotional and intellectual
> intelligence moves us
> into a higher level of 
> 
> consciousness, and we are able to let go of the
> flight or fight syndrome,
> and through contemplation, exercise the holdynamic
> (multi-dimensional)
> capabilities of our mind so as to make 
> 
> "conscious choice", we are becoming uniquely
> prepared to also be 
> self-governing" individuals 
> 
> living in cooperative and sustainable communities
> and no longer need the
> guidance and control 
> 
> that has been exerted by religious institutions. The
> chaos provided by
> global climate change offers us the opportunity to
> step outside of the
> matrix once and for all as we enter into the stage
> of universalism as the
> human family. 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us be ready to set ourselves free.  
> 
>  .    
> 
> 
> 
>         
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> ------------------------------
> 
>  
> 
> Message: 2
> 
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:53:40 -0700
> 
> From: Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm at interbaun.com>
> 
> Subject: Re: [GJM] Fw: Redesigning Our Habitats
> 
> To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice
> 
> <discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>
> 
> Message-ID:
> <00b901c70acd$cdaf7530$ba879444 at martinh4>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
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> 
> 
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