[GJM] Lurban Kohler on The Inner Structure of "the machine?"

Mon Nov 13 10:36:55 MST 2006

When it comes to Transfinancial Economics, Robert, I'm always hung up on one 
thing.

What is the marvellous supercomputer program that is supposed to regulate it 
all? Until I know the factors it will consider and how it will process them, 
I remain a sceptic.

Martin Hattersley
5929 - 189 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1

jmartinh at shaw.ca
e-mail: hattersleyjm at interbaun.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "robert searle" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Discussion Forum for Global Justice" 
<discussion at globaljusticemovement.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [GJM] Lurban Kohler on The Inner Structure of "the machine?"

> Dear All,
>
>        Ofcourse, the moral ideal of a future world is
> that of cooperation rather than competition. The aim
> too should also be non-hierachical in terms of
> organizational structure. To allachieve that requires
> genuine funding of NGOs to spread the message far, and
> wide. Admitedly, some  of this can be done with
> little, or no capital notably over the internet...but
> with more of it much more can be achieved. This is
> where Transfinancial Economics comes into the picture.
> This needs to be grasped.
>
> Though TFE would benefit the present competative
> capitalist system it would also ironically do likewise
> for those who oppose it. This an interesting feature
> of this subject. It is neither right, or left wing. It
> transcends those "opposites."
>
> However, we need to understand that the present
> competative capitalist system is too well entrenched
> for real change. The way forward whether we like it,
> or not is to largely work WITH the banks, and
> corporations.
>
>
> This is a big subject but I do feel that opposing the
> forces that be is a largely a waste of time. I have
> already explained something as to how this would work
> onsite (ie Positive Engagement with Banks, and
> Corporations, and the "Trojan Horse" of Transfinancial
> Economics)but more ideas need to be developed and
> clarified in my mind.
>
>
> Robert Searle
> http://kheper.net/essays/Transfinancial_Economics.html
>
>
>
> --- "Wesley S. Burt" <wesburt at juno.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello again Lurban,
>>
>> A warm thank you to you and Marguerite
>> for joining the discussion and for a new
>> subject heading which rings a bell with
>> every one.  "The machine" conveys a sense
>> of dealing with an automated system that
>> performs in accord with its design, but
>> is now operating under new conditions the
>> designers may not have anticipated.
>>
>> You write below, Lurban:
>> "Unless we can agree and act in
>> unison, any attempts to begin change
>> are "picked off" -nipped in the bud .. ."
>>
>> I agree completely, and wonder if the
>> published data on the performance of
>> "the machine" from 1789 to date, as
>> presented on attached Fig 2-3e.gif, is
>> correct, in your opinion.  I know that
>> list Fix-Gov does not distribute
>> attachments and John Gelles has
>> rejected my visusl-aids.  But it seems
>> to me that if we shared the same
>> numerical data our readers might
>> conclude that we are all talking about
>> the same machine.
>>
>> Every time I look at that steady
>> 3.3%/year inflation between 1980
>> and 2003, I wonder why the two step
>> increase in the M1 money supply did
>> not disturb the inflation rate.
>>
>> My best hope for a change in the machine's
>> performance is the notion that today's
>> designers will change their minds, and
>> modify the design to reverse the century
>> old trends.  There seems to be no natural
>> limit to those trends, except system failure.
>>
>> If we know how to design "alternative
>> systems, cooperative instead of
>> competitive, horizontal organization
>> instead of hierarchical," it might be
>> easier to fix the existing machine.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Wes Burt
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> From: lurban kohler <lurbankohler at yahoo.com>
>> To: FixGov at yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 05:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
>> Subject: [FixGov] "the machine?"
>>
>> ~~~~~~~ Brief Snip ~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> As I see it the problem is that our way of
>> generating
>> currency, creating money, is an ongoing bonanza for
>> the financial elite who then use a substantial
>> amount
>> of the "free money" to preserve the status quo.
>> (feeding the machine even as it gets uglier and
>> nastier)
>>
>> The elite, as I see it (but oversimplified,) are
>> well
>> compensated servants of the "machine." They've
>> learned that success depends on not looking too
>> closely at it--avoiding attention to certain things
>> . . .
>>
>> So what needs to be done is change the money
>> system in a way that stops giving a cut off the
>> top of every effort and enterprize to the servants
>> of the machine (the visible LORDS of our economy
>> & politics).  As mentioned before, the machine
>> has no body to die nor soul to damn. Its chief
>> mandate is to create as much profit as possible
>> regardless of social, environmental, etc. . . . .
>> consequences.  Its chief goal is to perpetuate
>> itself and grow! (same as a cancer)
>>
>> The MACHINE was somehow created by
>> humanity but is not what individual humans
>> want, or should want.  The money system is
>> used by the Machine to gain and keep the
>> support of humans at every level.  Humans
>> must gain the awareness of what is enslaving
>> us and setting our priorities --priorities which
>> disregard consequences.
>> . . . . . .
>>
>> we can talk about details and symptoms
>> forever without getting at the fundamental
>> problem. As long as we use money in the
>> current way, getting it from current sources,
>> its power over us and our choices of what
>> to do with earth's treasures and human
>> kind's efforts will remain the same and the
>> destruction will continue.
>>
>> This seems clear enough to many, but in
>> spite of all the ink spent describing better
>> systems we have not articulated a plan
>> to escape from the faulty system which
>> has us in its thrall. We are so bound to
>> this sytem, especially those who have
>> any power, that escape requires drastic
>> action. Unless we can agree and act in
>> unison, any attempts to begin change
>> are "picked off" -nipped in the bud .. .
>>
>> I think parallelism --rejecting as much as
>> possible the toxic system wherever we
>> can, building (along side existing institutions)
>> alternative systems, cooperative instead
>> of competetive, horizontal organization
>> instead of hierarchical etc., holds promise
>> as a way of seeing & exploring a different
>> path. . . . . anybody with me on this analysis?
>> --Urban>
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