[GJM] [Intertax] What Would YOU Really Do? 4.

Fri Nov 3 12:52:30 MST 2006

--- Christensen tjn <Christensen.tjn at neweconomics.org>
wrote:

> Sorry I missed the fun yesterday.
>  
> Robert's question has reminded me of an interesting
> experiment set up in the foyer of a major City of
> London bank in 1981.  A table was placed by the
> elevators with around 200 home-made cakes stacked on
> it.  A sign invited passers-by to help themselves
> and make a small donation.  The results were
> secretly filmed. 
>  
> The cakes quickly disappeared.  Less than a quarter
> of those who helped themselves paid into the kitty. 
> All of these were lower paid secretarial / clerical
> grades.  The vast majority of the payees were women.
>  Not a single managerial / professional grade person
> paid for what they took.  The large majority of the
> men who took a cake did not pay.
>  
> The organisers of this experiment concluded that
> this behavioural disparity arose from social
> conditioning.  Young boys are allowed to think that
> acquisitive greed is acceptable, even to be
> encouraged despite it being anti-social and
> frequently dishonest.  Ditto the more ambitious
> women in the higher grade posts.
>  
> I was one of the social scientists who set this
> particular experiment up.  The bank involved was
> NatWest.  I know that similar experiments in
> different surroundings and with different controls
> have yielded similar outcomes and conclusions.
>  
> I do not really don't buy into Tim's arguments.  I
> share his lack of enthusiasm for the way governments
> spend money, and hope that one day my vote will make
> a difference, but broadly speaking I prefer to live
> in a society where there is a degree of
> redistribution, some useful government expenditure,
> and an occasional sense of social solidarity.  The
> alternatives - and I've seen a few - are invariably
> worse.  Heaven help the poor person in the US who
> falls ill without health insurance.
>  
> Incidentally, to answer Robert's question about what
> would I do, well I am possibly unique in one
> respect:  I returned home to Jersey in the mid-1980s
> because I was so cheesed-off with the tax-cutting
> Conservative government in the UK, and left Jersey
> to return to the UK in 1998 after Labour had
> returned to power.  I fully anticipated that I would
> end up paying more tax, but felt this a price worth
> paying for the privilege of living in a society with
> values I could share [PS Sadly this government has
> not lived up to even my most modest expectations,
> but the values remain preferable to the abject greed
> and anti-social attitudes I encountered in Saint
> Helier's banking industry, which is comparable to
> the City of London in this respect].
>  
> Best wishes,
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
> +++++++
> John Christensen 
> Director,  Tax Justice Network International
> Secretariat
> tel  +44 (1) 494 793 922  -  mobile  07979 868 302 
> -  skype  jechristensen3153
> email  christensen.tjn at neweconomics.org
> <mailto:christensen.tjn at neweconomics.org>    -  
> website  www.taxjustice.net/
> <http://www.taxjustice.net/>  
>  
> Visit Tax Justice Network for Africa at
> www.taxjustice4africa.net
> <http://www.taxjustice4africa.net/>  
> Visit Offshore Watch at http://aabaglobal.org/
> <http://aabaglobal.org/> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: intertax-bounces at listen.attac.de on behalf of
> Jersey Cycle Tours
> Sent: Thu 02/11/2006 16:58
> To: tax justice forum
> Subject: Re: [Intertax] What Would really YOU do?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear All, re Robert Searle and "instinct"
> 
> A "normal instinct" only if you have learnt to hoard
> and not to share.
> 
> Only if you have learnt that "it is crap at the
> bottom of the pile, but when
> I get to the top myself then it is my turn" - (the
> public school ethos in
> olden times)
> 
> only if you never had (good quality) circle time at
> (primary) school and
> learnt to express your feelings and pay attention to
> the feelings and
> experiences of others
> 
> only if you either do not understand that those
> profits depend on social
> expenditure which you are removing funding from, or
> choose to ignore this
> fact in your own selfish interest. (selfish in a
> quasi-technical sense, not
> a loaded sense of selfish=bad)
> 
> You may say that all the above is learnt, and not
> instinct. I am not so
> sure. I think we all know deep down, and would
> discover under "free"
> conditions, that our happiness and satisfaction
> depends on others, more
> specifically our own group or groups. And I believe
> this awareness to be
> instinctual. How else do you explain the strength of
> the notion of
> "fairness" in children.
> 
> Prof. Winston's TV series about the way human minds
> work I think it was,
> showed a couple of fascinating experiments, that
> demonstrated that young
> children will make sacrifices rather than submit to
> what is "unfair"
> 
> Of course, think about a small group. If someone
> becomes known as a cheat,
> then no-one trusts them. if no-one trusts them,
> no-one is willing to work
> with them, lend them anything, etc. So, they lose.
> That is why face-to-face
> community, or something not too far bigger than it,
> is so important. You are
> far more likely to try and diddle TESCO than your
> friendly, open
> what-seems-to-be-all-night local convenience store
> 
> So, it may be the selfishness which is learnt and
> not the instinct to keep
> in balance the needs of the group and your own
> individual needs
> 
> jerseygreen
> 
> (And no, the children are not just throwing back the
> fairness training of
> adults, which in any case is usually based on "who
> had it first?" or "is
> that yours - no? - well then give it back" - neither
> of which are
> embodiments of "fairness")
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "robert searle" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <intertax at listen.attac.de>
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:15 PM
> Subject: [Intertax] What Would really YOU do?
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> >         If you were a super-rich businessman, or
> > woman would you not want to keep as much of your
> > profits from taxman as possible? Is this not a
> normal
> > instinct?
> >
> > I do feel Intertax is very one-sided.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Robert Searle
> >
> > Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> <http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/> 
> > _
> > JPBerlin - Mailbox und Politischer Provider
> > intertax Mailingliste - Eine Mailingliste im
> Rahmen von Attac
> >
> > intertax at listen.attac.de
> > Zu Optionen und zum Austragen:
> > http://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/intertax
> > ________________________________________
> > Eine andere Welt braucht Unterst&amp;uuml;tzung:
> 
=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html