[GJM] God/Allah/Elahom is only one
Norman Kurland
thirdway at cesj.org
Wed Jul 12 17:53:53 MDT 2006
Dear Dr. Muhammad Mukhtar Alam,
Beyond our mutual agreement that God or Allah is the ultimate Creator of
all that exists and the Source of all absolute values, I cannot speak
for others whose faith beyond this point differs from my personal
faith. The use of the term "patriarchy" in describing the nature of God
is not part of my personal faith. I have no way of knowing that God is
a male, a female of some form beyond that of a human male or female. As
a believer in the sovereignety of each human person under the ultimate
sovereignty of God, I personally reject any notion of male dominance
over females or female dominance (i.e. matriarchy) over males. So I
have no way of understanding your point of "patriarchy" as a "conceptual
target" or any relevance of the concept "in polytheistic narratives."
Hence, I cannot give you my views on a question I don't really
understand. For whatever value it might be to you, the essence of my
personal religious and spiritual beliefs is contained in the following
"core values" of our interfaith Center for Economic and Social Justice:
Successful organizations start with people firmly committed to a set
of core values, which cannot be compromised without weakening the
organization. CESJ's strength, unity and programs flow from our
founding principles, agreed upon by consensus from our first meeting
on April 7, 1984. Our core values were developed to guide us in our
work, to attract others sharing these values and to serve as the
very basis of CESJ's existence.
We think that our core values, once understood, are universally
appealing. We see this reflected in the broad diversity of the
backgrounds of those who come together because of these shared
values. The essence of our founding principles has not changed from
the founding of CESJ. But, as we discuss them together and with
others, we will continue to refine and clarify our values by consensus.
The following are CESJ's core values:
- - - - - -
There is a Source of all creation and of all universal and absolute
values such as Truth, Love and Justice, which represent the ultimate
ends of human actions. Many people call this Source, God.
- - - - - -
Nothing should stand between God and the human person.
- - - - - -
There is a hierarchy of human work: The highest form of work is
perfecting the social order to elevate each person in his or her
relationship to God. The lowest but most urgent form of work is for
sheer personal survival.
- - - - - -
In interacting with nature to promote one's own perfection, every
person must respect the rest of creation. Each human being, a
steward of nature, remains responsible for conserving natural forms
of existence, each of which is interdependent and shares the same
divine origin with humanity.
- - - - - -
Under the ultimate sovereignty of God, all sovereignty begins with
the human person--not social institutions including the family, the
State, organized religion, the business corporation, the labor
union, or academia.
- - - - - -
The essential means to achieve the sovereignty of the person include
such inalienable human rights as the right to life, liberty, and
access to productive property and free markets, equality of
opportunity, and the secret ballot. These rights--including the
rights of property--are not ultimate ends in themselves, but they
are intermediate ends or fundamental means to enable each person to
pursue Truth, Love and Justice.
- - - - - -
People create tools, shaped from the resources and energies of
nature, to support the economic and social sovereignty of the
person. Through private property ownership, each person can become
master of the technology needed to realize his or her fullest human
potential and dignity.
- - - - - -
People also create and maintain social institutions as highly
specialized "invisible tools" designed to serve highly specialized
social functions within a just social order. Institutions, as
organized expressions of society's values and goals, largely
determine the quality of each person's individual and social life.
As historical creations of humanity carrying within themselves the
wounds of history, institutions are continually in need of healing
and perfecting.
- - - - - -
The highest responsibility of each person is to pursue absolute
values and to promote economic and social justice in his or her
personal life and all associations with others.
I hope this will be helpful in our common search for a more just world
for all.
Peace, only through Justice,
Norm Kurland
www.cesj.org
www.globaljusticemovement.org
www.americanrevolutionaryparty.us
Muhammad Mukhtar Alam wrote:
> Dear Norm,
>
> I would like to seek your views on Charles note as I wrote in response
> to his note to which Premilla responded .How do you understand
> 'patriarchy' that has been noted to be a conceptual target. I
> recognise the relevance of 'patriarchy' in polytheistic narratives.
>
> Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
> Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
>
> way at cesj.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Premilla Dixit,
>
> Your views are compatible with those of the members of our
> interfaith Center for Economic and Social Justice.
> http://www.cesj.org/about/aboutcesj.htm.
>
> Norm Kurland
>
> premilla dixit wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>> I have also been following these postings with interest and
>> concern. I am usually a silent participant on this list serve,
>> learning much from the shared intelligence. However, Muhammad
>> Mukhtar Alam's frequent insistence on Prayers five time a day,
>> and other such religious norms has finally pressed me to respond.
>>
>> As we are all certainly aware many very wise human beings live
>> well within a sustainable ecological footprint without resort to
>> any religion or formal prayers five times a day in order to live
>> spiritually evolved lives within the bounds of human decency,
>> generosity of spirit, natural justice, and ecological synergy.
>> They live by profound principles of ethics that can match the
>> best of religions.
>>
>> Conversely, the world is full of religiously pious people (from
>> every religion), people who pray as their religious beliefs
>> prescribe, who nonetheless live lives of thoughtless, even
>> rapacious consumption and mindless cruelty. In the name of their
>> God and religion men have waged war on human life and all life on
>> earth for ages; men have exercised tyrrany over God's creations
>> in God's name.
>>
>> As a woman, I find most religions patriarchal hence unacceptable
>> in my personal world. One only has to look at the priesthood of
>> all religions, the texts and who are quoted as the sole
>> authorities to understand that although a divine hand created
>> woman just as much as it created man, we live in a phase of human
>> history where man has the arrogance or absurdity to believe that
>> divine intent is only revealed to human beings through man's
>> experience, mans words, and worst of all, MAN'S RIGHTEOUS
>> AUTHORITY.
>>
>> Nonetheless, I am the last person to claim that man's religion
>> has not produced great good in the world as well. As my hindu
>> parents taught and I learned, I respect every person's religious
>> beliefs and defend their human right to their beliefs, starting
>> with members of my own family, my mother and sisters, my father
>> and brothers, my relations, my friends, my neighbours, my
>> community and the world at large. In kindred spirit, I expect
>> respect and tolerance for my world view and spiritual
>> inclinations from my fellow human beings of all faiths.
>>
>> I find it is enough to strive to abide by two laws : DO NOT DO
>> UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU and THOU
>> SHALT NOT KILL , to do the right thing in the world. Deepening
>> my commitment to these two laws have been sufficient for me to
>> devote my conscious existence to being an anti-consumer, a peace,
>> social justice and human rights activist informed by these two
>> best aspirations of all religions.
>>
>> If only those who swear by their religions acted true to the
>> words of their greatest teachings, the ones I quote above...then
>> the terrible oppression that is patriarchy would itself dissolve
>> away...
>>
>> Religion, like Prayer is and ought to remain a private affair
>> between a person and the divine. Best Wishes, Premilla Dixit
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/06 4:17 AM, "Muhammad Mukhtar Alam"
>> <mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Charles,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is extremely sad that a follower of the communications of
>> messengers does not understand that God of all, The Eternal
>> and the Sovereign is one and one. There is order in the
>> Cosmos, due to the existence of one God/Allah/Elahom..there
>> are thousands of languages and there will be names..so long
>> they do not have anthromorphic representations. Muslim is an
>> Arabic word..Islam is also just an Arabic word.. As a Muslim
>> I accept all the communications of Jesus(PBUH) and
>> Moses(PBUH). Please read a good translations of "Qur'an".
>> Please find space for Muslims as followers of the
>> communcitions of all messngers..Prophet Muhummad was the last
>> messenger..Understanding of the commons is needed globally...
>>
>>
>>
>> Wes,Rodney, Norman, Martin and all such pious Christian have
>> no problems with the communications of Allah through,Prophet
>> Muhammad, the last messneger.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> I have been reading this series of correspondences with
>> interest as
>> you struggle to make the god of Muslim communications the
>> same as
>> the god of the Judeo-Christian communications and that
>> may well be
>> be true that they are one and the same..
>>
>> However, the ETERNAL SOVEREIGN CREATOR of all that there
>> is in our
>> endless cosmos is not the same as the one(s) discussed in
>> this
>> series of correspondences. The ETERNAL SOVEREIGN states
>> unequivocally that He alone is the CREATOR SAVIOR and
>> there is no
>> other:
>> Deuteronomy 4:35. To you it was shown, that you might
>> know that
>> ETERNAL Himself is SOVEREIGN; there is none other besides
>> Him.*
>> *also see Deuteronomy 6:4-6; 2 Samuel 7:22; Ps. 73:25;
>> 78:41; Isaiah
>> 29:23; 43:10-15; 44:6; 45:21-22; 54:5; Habakkuk 1:12;
>> Exodus 20:1-6;
>> Zechariah 14:9.
>>
>> In addition, He states of Israel that:
>> Psalms 106:21. They forgot ETERNAL their Savior, Who had
>> done great
>> things in Egypt,*
>> *also see Psalms 106:21; Isaiah 41:13-14; 43:1-3,11-12,25-26;
>> 45:15,21; 47:4; 49:26; 54:5; 60:16; 63:8; Jeremiah
>> 14:7-8; Hosea
>> 13:4
>>
>> For more information on the Mysteries of the Ages and to
>> Quest for
>> the Ancient of Days see the web site www.uhcg.org.
>> Shalom,
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Muhammad Mukhtar
>> Alam
>>> writes:
>>>
>>> Dear Wes, I wish you could make your formulation
>>> inclusive..as per the communications of Allah/God in
>>> Qur'an. The communications of all the messenger referred
>>> in Gospels, Torah are Islamic..We need to get this
>>> central understanding to dawn on all. Muslim is just an
>>> Arabic word and Islam is an Arabic word..an abstract
>>> noun..for intellectual and political state of submission
>>> to the will of Allah/God/parmatma..the Creator of all
>>> universes. Qur'an has verses suggesting the
>>> communications of Allah in all languages and to all
>>> people in their language.. Thus Judeo-Christian
>>> communication related to the communication of the
>>> messenger is Islamic.So are the monotheistic
>>> communications in other languages that are mixed with
>>> polytheistic
>>> narrations..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dear
>>> Mukhtar. Thanks again for your continued support and
>>> constructivecomments on what I have been trying to say
>>> since I firstdiscovered the defect of omission in the
>>> Decalogue and inevery other declaration of human rights,
>>> right down to this morning's issue of The Washington
>>> Post. You write: "I wish you (Wes Burt) could make your
>>> formulation inclusive." I thought I had done just that
>>> when I traced The OptimumPolicy (the governing principle
>>> of the state) to Abrahamand King Melchizedek, B.C. 1913
>>> (Gen. 14.20), as shownin the twelve year old visual-aid
>>> inserted below. In anagrarian as well as in an
>>> industrial society, human development is done well at
>>> the local level, or not done. The second tithe, to
>>> support a higher level of government over the twelve
>>> tribes of Israel by the thirteenth tribe, wasadded 442
>>> years later by Moses in B.C. 1471 (Num. 18.21). The
>>> census of the thirteenth tribe, taken twice in the
>>> Bookof Numbers, gave the Levites an average income of
>>> fourtimes the average income of the twelve tribes.
>>> Adequate,perhaps, to keep the thirteenth tribe honest in
>>> anagrarian society, but not in the US industrial empire
>>> since 1898. The third tithe (Deut. 14.22-29) was not
>>> imposed as a taxon the production and crops of the
>>> twelve tribes. Instead,each family was exhorted to
>>> spend 10% of their annualproduction on community
>>> building at the feasts and sharingwith the poor.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Insert Fig7-9k,gif
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[Image]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ End Fig7-9k,gif
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Optimum Policy (TOP) for productive
>>> assets with along and expensive development stage was
>>> reducedto practice in the US private sector by the best
>>> brainsthat money could buy. In 1953, I thought all of
>>> USindustry practiced the same policy as General
>>> Electricand the Electric Power Industry. Well, not
>>> quite! Butenough practice TOP to make the US economy
>>> aseem less web of sovereign corporations that coversthe
>>> global economy like a coat of paint. There is noformal
>>> level of governance above the corporations excepttheir
>>> universal competitive pricing formula, which is
>>> thebeginning of TOP. The rest of TOP consists of how
>>> oneinvests the first 10%, of sales revenue or personal
>>> income. As you know, Mukhtar, the German Bible critic,
>>> JuliusWellhausen, 1844-1918, asserted that the Five
>>> BooksOf Moses were compiled and edited by EZRA after
>>> theJewish remnant returned to Palestine under the
>>> Decreeof King Artaxerxes which excused the thirteenth
>>> tribe from paying the first tithe out of the second
>>> tithe they received from the twelve tribes. I am much
>>> obliged to three authorsfor my insight into the
>>> Pentateuch:* Rev. C. I. Scofield, The Scofield Reference
>>> Bible, 1909.* Dr. J. H. Hertz, C.H., The Pentateuch and
>>> Haftorahs, 1936.* George Sale, A Preliminary Discourse,
>>> 1892, with The Koran: commonly called the ALKORAN OF
>>> MOHAMMED,as translated from the original Arabic. As you
>>> say, Mukhtar, the three authors and their booksare
>>> Islamic, and at odds with Wellhausen. However
>>> thesethree books were handed down to us, they have
>>> servedwell the purpose of teaching the FEW how to
>>> preservetheir wealth and power while keeping each
>>> congregationon its knees; praying, paying, and obeying
>>> for thirtycenturies. Top for a few, and TWP (less than
>>> TOP) forthe many is a wailful, deliberate, and
>>> systematic designfor genocide done slowly. Clearly, a
>>> self-fulfilling prophesythat has operated as TWP on all
>>> empires since B.C. 975. When will we change our minds?
>>> Kind regards, Wes Burt
>>> ~~~~~~~~~ Mukhtar's note continues ~~~~~~~~~~~~~(Note.
>>> The last sentence has been corrected regardingthe age
>>> and acceptance of TOP.)
>>> wesburt at juno.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello United Diversity, (Burt's mistake. Only
>>> themoderator can post to U. D.) Last week on
>>> John Watkins' Alliance for HumanEmpowerment
>>> forum was a satisfying week. I visitedRon
>>> Roland's Constitution web site and read
>>> Bastiat's1950 book, The Law, for the nth
>>> time. On list Worldcit,Sabzali Khan, Raj
>>> Shekhar Chandola, Kenneth Kostyo,and Lucy
>>> Webster moved toward substancial agreementon
>>> the subject: "Common Grounds for World
>>> Religionand Decentralized Creativity." As a
>>> member ofno particular church, it is
>>> reassuring to keep in mindthat both sides of
>>> the Judeo-Christian principle ofSubsidiarity
>>> (TWP and TOP) have been disclosed to the
>>> public since 1891. The 2981 year old
>>> WrongPolicy (TWP) still prevails today, But
>>> the 3919 yearold optimum policy (TOP),
>>> Partially implemented in1789 for a thirteen
>>> colony agrarian society, is gainingground
>>> among today's industrial societies, but not
>>> yetin the public sector of the USA. (Note.
>>> Last sentence has been corrected regarding the
>>> age and acceptanceof TOP.)~~~~~ Snip balance
>>> of Burt's message to U. D. ~~~~~
>>> TOP and TWP are cognoscible
>>> on
>>> Dr. W. Curtiss Priest's web
>>> site at:
>>>
>>>
>>> Where do you stand on the
>>> continuum
>>> between TOP and TWP (The Wrong
>>> Policy)?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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