[GJM] God/Allah/Elahom is only one
Norman Kurland
thirdway at cesj.org
Sun Jul 9 20:23:15 MDT 2006
Dear Premilla Dixit,
Your views are compatible with those of the members of our interfaith
Center for Economic and Social Justice.
http://www.cesj.org/about/aboutcesj.htm.
Norm Kurland
premilla dixit wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> I have also been following these postings with interest and concern. I
> am usually a silent participant on this list serve, learning much from
> the shared intelligence. However, Muhammad Mukhtar Alam's frequent
> insistence on Prayers five time a day, and other such religious norms
> has finally pressed me to respond.
>
> As we are all certainly aware many very wise human beings live well
> within a sustainable ecological footprint without resort to any
> religion or formal prayers five times a day in order to live
> spiritually evolved lives within the bounds of human decency,
> generosity of spirit, natural justice, and ecological synergy. They
> live by profound principles of ethics that can match the best of
> religions.
>
> Conversely, the world is full of religiously pious people (from every
> religion), people who pray as their religious beliefs prescribe, who
> nonetheless live lives of thoughtless, even rapacious consumption and
> mindless cruelty. In the name of their God and religion men have waged
> war on human life and all life on earth for ages; men have exercised
> tyrrany over God's creations in God's name.
>
> As a woman, I find most religions patriarchal hence unacceptable in my
> personal world. One only has to look at the priesthood of all
> religions, the texts and who are quoted as the sole authorities to
> understand that although a divine hand created woman just as much as
> it created man, we live in a phase of human history where man has the
> arrogance or absurdity to believe that divine intent is only revealed
> to human beings through man's experience, mans words, and worst of
> all, MAN'S RIGHTEOUS AUTHORITY.
>
> Nonetheless, I am the last person to claim that man's religion has not
> produced great good in the world as well. As my hindu parents taught
> and I learned, I respect every person's religious beliefs and defend
> their human right to their beliefs, starting with members of my own
> family, my mother and sisters, my father and brothers, my relations,
> my friends, my neighbours, my community and the world at large. In
> kindred spirit, I expect respect and tolerance for my world view and
> spiritual inclinations from my fellow human beings of all faiths.
>
> I find it is enough to strive to abide by two laws : DO NOT DO UNTO
> OTHERS AS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU and THOU SHALT NOT
> KILL , to do the right thing in the world. Deepening my commitment to
> these two laws have been sufficient for me to devote my conscious
> existence to being an anti-consumer, a peace, social justice and human
> rights activist informed by these two best aspirations of all religions.
>
> If only those who swear by their religions acted true to the words of
> their greatest teachings, the ones I quote above...then the terrible
> oppression that is patriarchy would itself dissolve away...
>
> Religion, like Prayer is and ought to remain a private affair between
> a person and the divine. Best Wishes, Premilla Dixit
>
>
>
> On 7/6/06 4:17 AM, "Muhammad Mukhtar Alam" <mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Charles,
>
>
>
> It is extremely sad that a follower of the communications of
> messengers does not understand that God of all, The Eternal and
> the Sovereign is one and one. There is order in the Cosmos, due to
> the existence of one God/Allah/Elahom..there are thousands of
> languages and there will be names..so long they do not have
> anthromorphic representations. Muslim is an Arabic word..Islam is
> also just an Arabic word.. As a Muslim I accept all the
> communications of Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH). Please read a good
> translations of "Qur'an". Please find space for Muslims as
> followers of the communcitions of all messngers..Prophet Muhummad
> was the last messenger..Understanding of the commons is needed
> globally...
>
>
>
> Wes,Rodney, Norman, Martin and all such pious Christian have no
> problems with the communications of Allah through,Prophet
> Muhammad, the last messneger.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> I have been reading this series of correspondences with
> interest as
> you struggle to make the god of Muslim communications the same as
> the god of the Judeo-Christian communications and that may well be
> be true that they are one and the same..
>
> However, the ETERNAL SOVEREIGN CREATOR of all that there is in our
> endless cosmos is not the same as the one(s) discussed in this
> series of correspondences. The ETERNAL SOVEREIGN states
> unequivocally that He alone is the CREATOR SAVIOR and there is no
> other:
> Deuteronomy 4:35. To you it was shown, that you might know that
> ETERNAL Himself is SOVEREIGN; there is none other besides Him.*
> *also see Deuteronomy 6:4-6; 2 Samuel 7:22; Ps. 73:25; 78:41;
> Isaiah
> 29:23; 43:10-15; 44:6; 45:21-22; 54:5; Habakkuk 1:12; Exodus
> 20:1-6;
> Zechariah 14:9.
>
> In addition, He states of Israel that:
> Psalms 106:21. They forgot ETERNAL their Savior, Who had done
> great
> things in Egypt,*
> *also see Psalms 106:21; Isaiah 41:13-14; 43:1-3,11-12,25-26;
> 45:15,21; 47:4; 49:26; 54:5; 60:16; 63:8; Jeremiah 14:7-8; Hosea
> 13:4
>
> For more information on the Mysteries of the Ages and to Quest for
> the Ancient of Days see the web site www.uhcg.org.
> Shalom,
> Charles
>
>
>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
>> writes:
>>
>> Dear Wes, I wish you could make your formulation
>> inclusive..as per the communications of Allah/God in
>> Qur'an. The communications of all the messenger referred
>> in Gospels, Torah are Islamic..We need to get this
>> central understanding to dawn on all. Muslim is just an
>> Arabic word and Islam is an Arabic word..an abstract
>> noun..for intellectual and political state of submission
>> to the will of Allah/God/parmatma..the Creator of all
>> universes. Qur'an has verses suggesting the
>> communications of Allah in all languages and to all
>> people in their language.. Thus Judeo-Christian
>> communication related to the communication of the
>> messenger is Islamic.So are the monotheistic
>> communications in other languages that are mixed with
>> polytheistic
>> narrations..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dear
>> Mukhtar. Thanks again for your continued support and
>> constructivecomments on what I have been trying to say
>> since I firstdiscovered the defect of omission in the
>> Decalogue and inevery other declaration of human rights,
>> right down to this morning's issue of The Washington
>> Post. You write: "I wish you (Wes Burt) could make your
>> formulation inclusive." I thought I had done just that
>> when I traced The OptimumPolicy (the governing principle
>> of the state) to Abrahamand King Melchizedek, B.C. 1913
>> (Gen. 14.20), as shownin the twelve year old visual-aid
>> inserted below. In anagrarian as well as in an
>> industrial society, human development is done well at
>> the local level, or not done. The second tithe, to
>> support a higher level of government over the twelve
>> tribes of Israel by the thirteenth tribe, wasadded 442
>> years later by Moses in B.C. 1471 (Num. 18.21). The
>> census of the thirteenth tribe, taken twice in the
>> Bookof Numbers, gave the Levites an average income of
>> fourtimes the average income of the twelve tribes.
>> Adequate,perhaps, to keep the thirteenth tribe honest in
>> anagrarian society, but not in the US industrial empire
>> since 1898. The third tithe (Deut. 14.22-29) was not
>> imposed as a taxon the production and crops of the
>> twelve tribes. Instead,each family was exhorted to
>> spend 10% of their annualproduction on community
>> building at the feasts and sharingwith the poor.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Insert Fig7-9k,gif
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[Image]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ End Fig7-9k,gif
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Optimum Policy (TOP) for productive
>> assets with along and expensive development stage was
>> reducedto practice in the US private sector by the best
>> brainsthat money could buy. In 1953, I thought all of
>> USindustry practiced the same policy as General
>> Electricand the Electric Power Industry. Well, not
>> quite! Butenough practice TOP to make the US economy
>> aseem less web of sovereign corporations that coversthe
>> global economy like a coat of paint. There is noformal
>> level of governance above the corporations excepttheir
>> universal competitive pricing formula, which is
>> thebeginning of TOP. The rest of TOP consists of how
>> oneinvests the first 10%, of sales revenue or personal
>> income. As you know, Mukhtar, the German Bible critic,
>> JuliusWellhausen, 1844-1918, asserted that the Five
>> BooksOf Moses were compiled and edited by EZRA after
>> theJewish remnant returned to Palestine under the
>> Decreeof King Artaxerxes which excused the thirteenth
>> tribe from paying the first tithe out of the second
>> tithe they received from the twelve tribes. I am much
>> obliged to three authorsfor my insight into the
>> Pentateuch:* Rev. C. I. Scofield, The Scofield Reference
>> Bible, 1909.* Dr. J. H. Hertz, C.H., The Pentateuch and
>> Haftorahs, 1936.* George Sale, A Preliminary Discourse,
>> 1892, with The Koran: commonly called the ALKORAN OF
>> MOHAMMED,as translated from the original Arabic. As you
>> say, Mukhtar, the three authors and their booksare
>> Islamic, and at odds with Wellhausen. However
>> thesethree books were handed down to us, they have
>> servedwell the purpose of teaching the FEW how to
>> preservetheir wealth and power while keeping each
>> congregationon its knees; praying, paying, and obeying
>> for thirtycenturies. Top for a few, and TWP (less than
>> TOP) forthe many is a wailful, deliberate, and
>> systematic designfor genocide done slowly. Clearly, a
>> self-fulfilling prophesythat has operated as TWP on all
>> empires since B.C. 975. When will we change our minds?
>> Kind regards, Wes Burt
>> ~~~~~~~~~ Mukhtar's note continues ~~~~~~~~~~~~~(Note.
>> The last sentence has been corrected regardingthe age
>> and acceptance of TOP.)
>> wesburt at juno.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello United Diversity, (Burt's mistake. Only
>> themoderator can post to U. D.) Last week on
>> John Watkins' Alliance for HumanEmpowerment
>> forum was a satisfying week. I visitedRon
>> Roland's Constitution web site and read
>> Bastiat's1950 book, The Law, for the nth
>> time. On list Worldcit,Sabzali Khan, Raj
>> Shekhar Chandola, Kenneth Kostyo,and Lucy
>> Webster moved toward substancial agreementon
>> the subject: "Common Grounds for World
>> Religionand Decentralized Creativity." As a
>> member ofno particular church, it is
>> reassuring to keep in mindthat both sides of
>> the Judeo-Christian principle ofSubsidiarity
>> (TWP and TOP) have been disclosed to the
>> public since 1891. The 2981 year old
>> WrongPolicy (TWP) still prevails today, But
>> the 3919 yearold optimum policy (TOP),
>> Partially implemented in1789 for a thirteen
>> colony agrarian society, is gainingground
>> among today's industrial societies, but not
>> yetin the public sector of the USA. (Note.
>> Last sentence has been corrected regarding the
>> age and acceptanceof TOP.)~~~~~ Snip balance
>> of Burt's message to U. D. ~~~~~
>> TOP and TWP are cognoscible
>> on
>> Dr. W. Curtiss Priest's web
>> site at:
>>
>>
>> Where do you stand on the
>> continuum
>> between TOP and TWP (The Wrong
>> Policy)?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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