[GJM] Happy to read ur thoughts ::::: God/Allah/Elahom is only one

Sat Jul 8 10:55:46 MDT 2006

Namaskar,
  please go through www.anandamarga.net and www.proutworld.org .

  ur's brotherly
  dada naciketa
  ********************************************************

premilla dixit <prem.dixit at verizon.net> wrote:
  Dear Friends,
I have also been following these postings with interest and concern. I am usually a silent participant on this list serve, learning much from the shared intelligence. However, Muhammad Mukhtar Alam’s frequent insistence on Prayers five time a day, and other such religious norms has finally pressed me to respond. 

As we are all certainly aware many very wise human beings live well within a sustainable ecological footprint without resort to any religion or formal prayers five times a day in order to live spiritually evolved lives within the bounds of human decency, generosity of spirit, natural justice, and ecological synergy. They live by profound principles of ethics that can match the best of religions.

Conversely, the world is full of religiously pious people (from every religion), people who pray as their religious beliefs prescribe, who nonetheless live lives of thoughtless, even rapacious consumption and mindless cruelty. In the name of their God and religion men have waged war on human life and all life on earth for ages; men have exercised tyrrany over God’s creations in God’s name.  

As a woman, I find most religions patriarchal hence unacceptable in my personal world.  One only has to look at the priesthood of all religions, the texts and who are quoted as the sole authorities to understand that although a divine hand created woman just as much as it created man, we live in a phase of human history where man has the arrogance or absurdity to believe that divine intent is only revealed to human beings through man’s experience, mans words, and worst of all, MAN’S RIGHTEOUS AUTHORITY.  

Nonetheless, I am the last person to claim that man’s religion has not produced great good in the world as well.  As my hindu parents taught and I learned, I respect every person’s religious beliefs and defend their human right to their beliefs, starting with members of my own family, my mother and sisters, my father and brothers, my relations, my friends, my neighbours, my community and the world at large.  In kindred spirit, I expect respect and tolerance for my world view and spiritual inclinations from my fellow human beings of all faiths. 

I find it is enough to strive to abide by two laws : DO NOT DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU and THOU SHALT NOT KILL , to do the right thing in the world.  Deepening my commitment to these two laws have been sufficient for me to devote my conscious existence to being an anti-consumer, a peace, social justice and human rights activist informed by these two best aspirations of all religions. 

If only those who swear by their religions acted true to the words of their greatest teachings, the ones I quote above...then the terrible oppression that is patriarchy would itself dissolve away...

Religion, like Prayer is and ought to remain a private affair between a person and the divine. Best Wishes, Premilla Dixit

On 7/6/06 4:17 AM, "Muhammad Mukhtar Alam" <mukhtaralam2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:

  Dear Charles,

It is extremely sad that a follower of the communications of messengers does not understand that God of all, The Eternal and the Sovereign is one and one. There is order in the Cosmos, due to the existence of one God/Allah/Elahom..there are thousands of languages and there will be names..so long they do not have anthromorphic representations. Muslim is an Arabic word..Islam is also just an Arabic word.. As a Muslim I accept all the communications of Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH). Please read a good translations of "Qur'an". Please find space for Muslims as followers of the communcitions of all messngers..Prophet Muhummad was the last messenger..Understanding of the commons is needed globally...

Wes,Rodney, Norman, Martin  and all such pious Christian have no problems with the communications of Allah through,Prophet Muhammad, the last messneger.

  Greetings,
I have been reading this series of correspondences with interest as
you struggle to make the god of Muslim communications the same as
the god of the Judeo-Christian communications and that may well be
be true that they are one and the same..

However, the ETERNAL SOVEREIGN CREATOR of all that there is in our
endless cosmos is not the same as the one(s) discussed in this
series of correspondences. The ETERNAL SOVEREIGN states
unequivocally that He alone is the CREATOR SAVIOR and there is no
other:
Deuteronomy 4:35. To you it was shown, that you might know that
ETERNAL Himself is SOVEREIGN; there is none other besides Him.*
*also see Deuteronomy 6:4-6; 2 Samuel 7:22; Ps. 73:25; 78:41; Isaiah
29:23; 43:10-15; 44:6; 45:21-22; 54:5; Habakkuk 1:12; Exodus 20:1-6;
Zechariah 14:9.

In addition, He states of Israel that:
Psalms 106:21. They forgot ETERNAL their Savior, Who had done great
things in Egypt,*
*also see Psalms 106:21; Isaiah 41:13-14; 43:1-3,11-12,25-26;
45:15,21; 47:4; 49:26; 54:5; 60:16; 63:8; Jeremiah 14:7-8; Hosea
13:4

For more information on the Mysteries of the Ages and to Quest for
the Ancient of Days see the web site www.uhcg.org.
Shalom,
Charles

> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Muhammad Mukhtar Alam
> writes:
>
> Dear Wes, I wish you could make your formulation
> inclusive..as per the communications of Allah/God in
> Qur'an. The communications of all the messenger referred
> in Gospels, Torah are Islamic..We need to get this
> central understanding to dawn on all. Muslim is just an
> Arabic word and Islam is an Arabic word..an abstract
> noun..for intellectual and political state of submission
> to the will of Allah/God/parmatma..the Creator of all
> universes. Qur'an has verses suggesting the
> communications of Allah in all languages and to all
> people in their language.. Thus Judeo-Christian
> communication related to the communication of the
> messenger is Islamic.So are the monotheistic
> communications in other languages that are mixed with
> polytheistic
> narrations..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dear
> Mukhtar. Thanks again for your continued support and
> constructivecomments on what I have been trying to say
> since I firstdiscovered the defect of omission in the
> Decalogue and inevery other declaration of human rights,
> right down to this morning's issue of The Washington
> Post. You write: "I wish you (Wes Burt) could make your
> formulation inclusive." I thought I had done just that
> when I traced The OptimumPolicy (the governing principle
> of the state) to Abrahamand King Melchizedek, B.C. 1913
> (Gen. 14.20), as shownin the twelve year old visual-aid
> inserted below. In anagrarian as well as in an
> industrial society, human development is done well at
> the local level, or not done. The second tithe, to
> support a higher level of government over the twelve
> tribes of Israel by the thirteenth tribe, wasadded 442
> years later by Moses in B.C. 1471 (Num. 18.21). The
> census of the thirteenth tribe, taken twice in the
> Bookof Numbers, gave the Levites an average income of
> fourtimes the average income of the twelve tribes.
> Adequate,perhaps, to keep the thirteenth tribe honest in
> anagrarian society, but not in the US industrial empire
> since 1898. The third tithe (Deut. 14.22-29) was not
> imposed as a taxon the production and crops of the
> twelve tribes. Instead,each family was exhorted to
> spend 10% of their annualproduction on community
> building at the feasts and sharingwith the poor.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Insert Fig7-9k,gif
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[Image]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ End Fig7-9k,gif
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Optimum Policy (TOP) for productive
> assets with along and expensive development stage was
> reducedto practice in the US private sector by the best
> brainsthat money could buy. In 1953, I thought all of
> USindustry practiced the same policy as General
> Electricand the Electric Power Industry. Well, not
> quite! Butenough practice TOP to make the US economy
> aseem less web of sovereign corporations that coversthe
> global economy like a coat of paint. There is noformal
> level of governance above the corporations excepttheir
> universal competitive pricing formula, which is
> thebeginning of TOP. The rest of TOP consists of how
> oneinvests the first 10%, of sales revenue or personal
> income. As you know, Mukhtar, the German Bible critic,
> JuliusWellhausen, 1844-1918, asserted that the Five
> BooksOf Moses were compiled and edited by EZRA after
> theJewish remnant returned to Palestine under the
> Decreeof King Artaxerxes which excused the thirteenth
> tribe from paying the first tithe out of the second
> tithe they received from the twelve tribes. I am much
> obliged to three authorsfor my insight into the
> Pentateuch:* Rev. C. I. Scofield, The Scofield Reference
> Bible, 1909.* Dr. J. H. Hertz, C.H., The Pentateuch and
> Haftorahs, 1936.* George Sale, A Preliminary Discourse,
> 1892, with The Koran: commonly called the ALKORAN OF
> MOHAMMED,as translated from the original Arabic. As you
> say, Mukhtar, the three authors and their booksare
> Islamic, and at odds with Wellhausen. However
> thesethree books were handed down to us, they have
> servedwell the purpose of teaching the FEW how to
> preservetheir wealth and power while keeping each
> congregationon its knees; praying, paying, and obeying
> for thirtycenturies. Top for a few, and TWP (less than
> TOP) forthe many is a wailful, deliberate, and
> systematic designfor genocide done slowly. Clearly, a
> self-fulfilling prophesythat has operated as TWP on all
> empires since B.C. 975. When will we change our minds?
> Kind regards, Wes Burt
> ~~~~~~~~~ Mukhtar's note continues ~~~~~~~~~~~~~(Note.
> The last sentence has been corrected regardingthe age
> and acceptance of TOP.)
> wesburt at juno.com wrote:
>
> Hello United Diversity, (Burt's mistake. Only
> themoderator can post to U. D.) Last week on
> John Watkins' Alliance for HumanEmpowerment
> forum was a satisfying week. I visitedRon
> Roland's Constitution web site and read
> Bastiat's1950 book, The Law, for the nth
> time. On list Worldcit,Sabzali Khan, Raj
> Shekhar Chandola, Kenneth Kostyo,and Lucy
> Webster moved toward substancial agreementon
> the subject: "Common Grounds for World
> Religionand Decentralized Creativity." As a
> member ofno particular church, it is
> reassuring to keep in mindthat both sides of
> the Judeo-Christian principle ofSubsidiarity
> (TWP and TOP) have been disclosed to the
> public since 1891. The 2981 year old
> WrongPolicy (TWP) still prevails today, But
> the 3919 yearold optimum policy (TOP),
> Partially implemented in1789 for a thirteen
> colony agrarian society, is gainingground
> among today's industrial societies, but not
> yetin the public sector of the USA. (Note.
> Last sentence has been corrected regarding the
> age and acceptanceof TOP.)~~~~~ Snip balance
> of Burt's message to U. D. ~~~~~
> TOP and TWP are cognoscible
> on
> Dr. W. Curtiss Priest's web
> site at:
>
> 
> Where do you stand on the
> continuum
> between TOP and TWP (The Wrong
> Policy)?
>

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